I've owned a 223 Contender for a long time and have 100 or so cases. It was mostly a goofing around gun, nothing serious. I'm about to own a Kimber 223 and decided maybe I should do some large reloading - say load 500 at a time.

I know a difference exists between 5.56 and 223, namely small internal volume differences and the chamber set up between the 2.

Looking at the bewildering array of once fired brass options on GB, a couple of questions:

1. I see Federal brass - is this the same as the 'normal' Fed brass? Not a fan of Fed brass for other cartridges, but as cheap as they are, if I could get 3-4-5 loadings, I could buy another batch.

2. Lake City brass worth playing with?

3. Other options/tips?

Thanks.

Fed brass works ok. I dont keep my brass much past 3 to 5 loadings anyways regardless of manufacturer. I tend to lose them or necks become loose so if I get 3 to 5 firings im ok with that.

Lake city tends to be thicker brass, so max loads can be an issue from my understanding.

I would decide what bullet and use you want to load and go from there. I run fast twist barrels, typically 1/8 or 1/7. I like 69 sierra game kings and hornady 75 bthp.

I run varget for my heavies, but plenty of good powders for the 223.

If your chamber is 223 rem, do not fire 5.56 pressure loads in it!

I have Remington brass for all of my cartridges, but only because it was plentiful a dozen years ago when I started reloading. I’m on the fourth loading for much of it, but I neck size only. That really extends the life of the brass.

Do some research on Lee collet neck sizing dies. Start here.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt.../10862913/School_me_on_the_use_of_a_neck

Pay attention to what Mathman says.

For me, it’s the only way to go.




P

Some military rounds have thicker brass and less case capacity. That is not true of LC 5.56 brass. It has a bit more capacity than most commercial brass.

Our local range is shared with law enforcement. A visit to the range after they have been using it often produces a bounty of once fired LC brass. I have so much of it that I will never use it all.

De-crimped, cleaned, formed and trimmed, it makes great reloading brass.

Competed at the state and national level for 14 years, mostly with 5.56/223 in NRA over the course competition at 200-300-600 yards.

Shot out many barrels that would still work great at 200-300 yards but quit on the long line. Usual accurate barrel life was about 3500-5000 rounds. Used Kriegers, Blackstars, Shilen, Douglas, and Lilja... Some were good, some were great.

Federal GMM brass was worth maybe 2-3 firings and the primer pockets would expand... good for practice and a toss.

LC brass was used over the course and rarely did I have a case separation. I would fire LC until it was lost, sometimes 10 plus reloadings..

Winchester was used a lot and was the same as LC... I used both for the mid range target at 600 yards..

Use a case gauge and set the shoulder back .003... never had a problem chambering a round and like I mentioned earlier, rarely had a case separation.

Mostly used CCI primers as they were supposedly harder than federal primers

VV N140 was my go to powder as was VV N540. Had lots of good matches with 4895, Varget and RL 15, but they had slower speeds than VV powders when an accurate load was found.

Rare was the barrel that preferred any ball powder.

Bullets used were 69,77 and 80 gr sierras with the occasional barrel that liked Bergers of the same weight.

Good luck!

I have LC brass that I really lost count on the loads, never had any trouble w/that.. the pockets get loose after 15 or so loads, still, none have fallen out, and no black doughnuts around them.... your mileage may vary,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Lake City brass is good and seems to last a long time, and as previously said Federal brass seems to develop loose primer pockets pretty quickly.

I don't know when Starline will be offering .223 Rem brass again, but I can say it's good stuff.

Back to LC brass...if you buy fired LC stuff it will require dealing with the primer crimp. There are several ways to fix the issue but all are a PITA in my opinion. I was able to find virgin LC 5.56 brass once upon a time. I think it was at Graf & Sons, but that may not be correct. But if you can find unprimed LC, it's good to go.

If you want your brass to last a long time, annealing the necks might serve you well. As long as primer pockets remain tight you should be able to continue using the same brass indefinitely. Keeping pressures sane helps too.

The way things are today, you might be well advised to just take what you can get. Hopefully all this supply chain BS will go away (I'm nt holding my breath, though).

Good info here. I have an RCBS crimp remover and don't fi d it all that difficult to use.

Guess I'll look at the 4 billion LC once fired brass options.

Anything else I should know, feel free to chime in.

This is what I use. Realize not everyone has a 650. The other option is this https://www.rcbs.com/case-processing/accessories/primer-pocket-swager---bench-tool/16-9474.html

I used this before I got the Dillon 650 and it works great.

One thing to watch out for in fired LC: If it was fired in a machine gun, to case will have been compressed .014", shoulder to base. Such brass should be discarded, since it will tend toward case head separation.

Is there some way to detect that visually or does it require a tedious measurement?

LC Brass can be had new _AND_ without the primer crimps; you just have to keep an eye open for it. It's good brass. I've found best accuracy with Benchmark powder followed by XBR 8208. 8208 is the cleanest burning powder I've found. If target shooting, Matchkings seem to shoot best. For varmints/p-dogs, I really like VMAX bullets.

I prefer LC myself, finally bought a dillon super swage after going years with rcbs, major benefit when doing a lot.

Some brass lasts a longer time than others.

I have been shooting the same brass i got back in 1972.

Had to ditch some for pockets to large and others for one thing or another.

As for make of brass i have no favorites,i shoot them all.

For 55 grain bullets one could use between 23-25 grains of powder and do ok for a start.

For match grade one can get involved in a lot of tools and trying to find the same lot of brass and other supplies.

As for me and several others around here we are shooting coyotes,pd's and other varmints.

In my case, I know what the LEOs were shooting, standard semi auto rifles, so it wasn't a problem. If you don't know the source of the brass, then you can make yourself a little fixture with washer that rests somewhere on the lower part of the shoulder.... or something. Never had to deal with the problem.

As a couple of posters have pointed out, you can buy virgin LC brass sometimes. I have a box of 1000 sitting in my workshop, and can't get to it because I have so much free brass from the range.

I use LC, Remington, Winchester, Hornady, Federal, Frontier, and even some Speer brass in the 223. I prefer the first 3 on the list, and use mostly those. But I wouldn't be afraid of any of it as long as I inspected it, and didn't use hot loads.

As for as powders for the 223, there are simply too many to list that will get the job done. I use a lot of H335, W748, Varget, and surplus WC846, along with Tac and Benchmark.

This all good info. I have mist of the powders mentioned in this thread from previous experiments. I'm watching a bunch of LC brass on GB now......

I like CFE 223, mostly cause I have a bunch of it and 62 grain bear claws. They are hell on pigs.

One of the best loads I have with 55gr nosler ballistic tips uses leverevolution. I have to go dig up the data, rest of my loads are with 75gr and up and I use either AR-comp or 2495. But you can’t go wrong with RL15 with heavies

I like 27 grains of CFE 223 and 55 grain TTSX.

7 or 8 twist 75 ELD-M 'lever start at 23.
9 twist 75 Bthp 'lever start at 23.

Over 9 55 spire point with h335.

Lapua or bust.

I use LC range pick up; must remove crimped primer - I use a Wilson reamer. I get over 10 firings. I also anneal necks every other firing.

Load map for my 20” krieger:

53 hornady Vmax, favorable BC for weight class.
25.4 H335, 3135fps, 1/2”
25.5 TAC, 3120fps, 1/2”
25.3 H4895, 3120fps, 1/2”

69 Sierra Match King
25.1 Varget, 2890fps 3/8”
24.2 H4895, 2940fps 1/2”
23.4 ARcomp 2890fps, 5/8”
24.3 RL15, 2785fps 5/8”

PS. H335 pushing the 53Vmax was less than MOA for the entire load work up range; works great in a progressive.

I bought a bunch of new LC before the crunch. Brass with crimped primers from factory ammo gets put in the JIC bucket, as my time is worth more to me than a few cents.

Besides LC, I have some Nosler and Fiocchi (GFL). The GFL is the heaviest, and I load it a bit lighter, maybe a grain less TAC. Once I get my still-in-the-box Magneto Speed up and running, if the results show little difference, I’ll stop doing that. Those reloads get fired mostly in my Mini anyway, which dings them up a bit and tosses them pretty far, so I lose some. That ammo is pretty cheap, so I’m not anal about losing a few.

I agree about the LC with crimped primers. Not worth my time either. I have a good supply of FC and PMC that has suited my needs very well. The FC has scamp marks:

It is supposedly better brass. It has held up very well, getting 15 firings is easy and the primer pockets are still pretty tight. If I annealed, I'd get a lot more firings, as the necks start to spit on me after around 15 or so. Just as a FYI, I was at scheels today and I saw their reloading components were on sale (20% off). I was looking at their Lapua brass and it was $63.00/100. At 20% off, it knocked the price down to about $50/100 pcs. Not bad for Lapua brass. I bought 200 pcs of the same brass for my 6x45 a few months ago and it holds up very well. Hard to beat the quality too. As for loading the 223, I like to use powders that drop out of the Uniflow effortlessly. Those powders would include H335, 8208, BLC2, X-Terminator, Tac and even AR Comp. For the little 223 case, I like to just throw and go. None of this weigh and trickle each charge for the little case. That is also not worth my time. You should be able to work up a good load that shoots sub moa for 10 shots using this method. Lately AR Comp has been my go to powder for the 223 rem. It shoots very well in all of my rifles and drops like water out of the powder measure. Win win in the whole scheme of things...

My rifles like H335 with the 53gr Vmax as well:

A bunch of good info on this thread!

It should probably be a sticky at the top......

My plan is to develop a load that will throw accurately. I don't weigh charges for plain ol' shootin'. I'm also not inclined to do load development until I wring the 10th of an inch out of a load - MOA and I'm done. This rifle/load is simply to stay sharp through the year - basically an economical skill retainer through the year.

50-55 grain bullets and either H335 or TAC would give you what you want.

TAC has been a big winner for me. So have Benchmark, Varget, N140, 8208 and CFE 223 but there are many, many appropriate powders, grab a manual and pick one, it's a very easy round to load.

LC cases are good stuff.

Crimped primers are easy to cut out with a countersink bit or the Hornady tool, I haven't managed to ruin a case yet.

Thrown charges are all I do. Haven’t used a trickler in a good 15+ years.

Thrown charge 25.8 grains Benchmark, 52 SMK, GMM 200 yard 5 shots



Same load and distance 10 shots for BSA



Consecutive 5 shot groups 24 grains LT32, 52 Sierra, GMM, 100 yards again thrown charge.





Easy round to load for, Varget usually sucks donkey balls for me. 335 gets way to temperamental on hot days but is a good powder. 4895 works though thrown charges can vary. Never tried any Ramshot powders. Been wanting to try a reduced load of Red Dot but have been too damn busy.

That will probably work <G>