I switched to Hodgdon 4350 from IMR 4350. Shortages made it necessary but I think it is a happy switch. So far so good...sort of.

Odd things though....I cannot explain why sometimes the Hodgdon min-max is higher than IMR and other times reversed. Sometimes this happens for a given caliber looking at different weights. The Hodgdon reloading center on-line seems wonky these days. I have a Lee Reloader manual but of course it doesn't list both powders for all things. I am thinking I may need a second manual for comparisons and wonder if there is one more commonly preferred than the others?

Maybe it's because they're close enough together that batch differences and/or specific combination differences (even in the same cartridge) can cause such flip flops.

Having multiple manuals is never a bad thing. I personally like Hornady, Speer, Lyman, and Nosler.

In regards to the H vs IMR. They both make a 4350 but they ARE NOT, I repeat ARE NOT the same powder. IMR 4350 is made in the General Dynamics plant in Canada. H 4350 is made in Australia by ADI. The charge weights might be similar, but rarely the same, and if they are the same it's purely by coincidence. Those 2 powders are not interchangeable in regards to the charge weights for any given cartridge. The reason is due to different pressures generated. This explains why you'll see differences in various data and manuals.

The Lyman Manual is a pretty good one.

I also go on a lot of the manufacturers' load data sites when using their particular components.

Jeezus Fhuqking Gawd...you CLUELESS Drooltards are a Hoot! Hint.

AA,H and IMR 4350's starting load data,is simply Dealer's choice. Max is always a function of the particular platform and if one isn't working towards same,there WILL be issues,NO matter the propellant's label. Simply procure in bulk,so as to sip from the same Lot. Hint.

Fascinating to me,that you Crying CLUELESS Kchunts haven't ever seen a powder burn rate chart. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!....................

As stated above, having more than 1 manual is prudent. I have approximately 25 on my bench from various bullet, tool and powder companies dating from the 60's to the present. It's never a bad idea to cross check the data of any source.

I use a lot of IMR 4350. There are faster, maybe better powders, but it’s does well for me in a dozen cartridges. I load 59 grains behind a partition or a ballistic tip in 30-06’s. I’ve shot that load in a dozen or more rifles, great groups in every one of them. I load 64 behind 140’s in my 7 mags, always good too. Those I know offhand.

so...Lyman manual.

I have looked at burn rate charts, I know they aren't interchangeable, and have viewed from different sources which is why I asked the question in the first place.

Just seemed odd on some listings a lighter bullet for example had a lower min-max with IMR then next heavier bullet weight was reversed and heaviest reverted back.

Trying to keep safe and it is difficult to buy and test when stuff ain't available. Was just a question.
Thanks gents.

From what I've seen over the past 40 years it's a crap shoot of 4350 lot #s. The only other powder with such wide swings I've seen is a particular late 80s lot of IMR4320, & H380. In fairness, the H380 could have been temp related. I stopped using it years ago after a locked bolt on a groundhog hunt in July with ammo that was shot well in May.

Right before the covid madness I got 2 different lots of H4350 about a month apart. All else exactly the same there was 250 fps difference between them in my 22-250 Ackley. There were slightly less but still gross differences in 7x57, 338-06 ackley, & 358 Norma quite often fired the same day with the exact same components the 2 lots of powder being the only difference.

The 8#er metal can of IMR4350 I got about 35 years ago was, & still is, closer to the faster of the 2 recent lots of the newer H as the big can empties. A brand new jug of IMR4350 was closer to the slower lot of recent H. Throw in AA4350 which in the lot I had was about equal to IMR4831, or the SW 4350 which was a tad slower yet. IMR4451 was mostly a wash, pressuring out at lower speeds with less accuracy, but could still be useful somewhere I hope as I got 8#s of the stuff.

There is still a bit of the original "Newly Manufactured" H4350 before it was cut short in the closet & a small, but treasured supply of Scot 4351 that's earmarked for my 22-250 Ackley still in the closet too. These 2 perform similarly gr for gr vs velocity & accuracy, but dont bulk the same. Isn't this fun? It's a disease, I tell ya.

Edit... The loading manuals are nothing more than guides. Their start loads are mostly safe places to start. Their max loads may or may not be your max load. Your stuff isn't the same as their stuff, so you probably wont get the same results. Some times it may be close, sometimes not. Like I said... a crapshoot.

Buying another "Manual" don't change burn rate properties. Hint.

If only AGAIN,there's zero fhuqking "danger" of swapping AA,IMR or H-4895 STARTING Loads,in ANY fhuqking chambering,with ANY fhuqking projectile. Hint.

Simply Start At The Fhuqking Start,no matter the label and listen to YOUR rifle. Hint.

You fhuqking CLUELESS Texans are a HOOT! Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!..............

Wow, different powders burn at different rates in different calibers! Max charges differ in different manuals! Having 25 manuals will (apparently) change powder burn rates! Only Lyman manuals are worth having! You have to look at burn rate charts or you’re an idiot or worse!


I’ll just address the latter. Burn rate charts are generally close to worthless when comparing powders. First, they are relative not absolute, and just because two are next to each other in the chart doesn’t mean their burn rates are almost the same. Powder #21 may be very close to #22, or it may be quite aways away - you don’t know. Second, their positions are developed in a “bomb”, not a gun barrel with a constantly increasing volume - big difference with obvious impact in a firearm. Third, experienced handloaders know that powders close to each other in burn rate may switch positions in different calibers.

It’s fun to make observations like the OP has done, but overthinking topics like this never resolves anything. Neither does insulting other posters…



.

DoubleSTUPID,

You are doing "Great!",all by yourself...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

Somebody broke their stick I think.

I think bullet construction is the difference you see in min/maxes. One company's 150 gr bullet may need a different load than another 150 gr bullet to perform optimally.
Some bullets perform best at a given pressure range , powder loads reflect that.
A solid copper bullet will definitely have a differing load than a soft point with the same powder, if one would use the same powders on those 2 types of bullets.

You can easily contact the bullet manufacturer and inquire about loads for their specific bullets instead of buying another reloading manual. If you reload many bullets by the same company I would invest in their reloading manual.
Powder manufacturers will also have reloading info out, as you know, but sometimes the bullet company has the best info on their products, what makes them perform the best.

Some great info about testing various bullets online too.

crytex,

Your sheer and utter CLUELESSNESS is HILARIOUS...you "lucky" kchunt. Hint. Congratulations?!?

Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

I looked for C4 on the burn rate chart several times but never could find it. 180 gr, .300 Roy, whaddya think a good starting load would be? I'm short on powder, long on plastic.

It’s right after DM12 and Detasheet.


A smidge, which is less the a pinch, but more than a tad.

Just stuff the case and load. Your survival is not guaranteed.
If able, let us know how it turns out since powder substitution is a thing these days.

Looking for bullets I see Speer is having a dang good sale. They list min max for their 90 grain in 6mm and the max is below the min I find elsewhere. Jeez.

It won't stop me from trying them out but I sure do like having a valid set of numbers o back up what I am doing. I began to remember severla years this smae question centered around Speer in hte 6mm bullets and I got a response I posted from them. Can't find it yet- een quite a while.

IMR is bulkier than H 4350, so in light bullet loads in say a 243 or 30-06, it runs out of space before h4350 does. Speer bullet jackets tend to be stickier and longer bearing surface than others. All test guns are different and some companies are a wee more conservative than others with pressure. These are just a few of the many reasons for differences. Bullet design ,core hardness, length of bearing surface all effect it.

Maybe I can say it a little nicer than stick. Every lot of primers, cases, and powder are a little different. Not counting the rifle chambers they are tested in. So reloading manuals give you a place to start that should be safe in your particular rifle.
There are several manufacturers of a powder in the 4350 burning range. They are all a little different. Then there is the lot to lot difference. Hasbeen

A



A lot nicer Mike

Yes and like you said, there is a difference in rifles. Many of the loading manuals are worked up with a universal receiver and who know who's barrel. Heck even if they happened to use the same rifle as the one you have is no guarantee that it will be close to your rifle.
Given all of the variables it's a wonder they can even give you a close recommendation.

I appreciate Hanco and others chiming in - playing nice.


I am not overly worried and understand what everyone is saying. Not wanting to overblow this thing but when we meticulously measure charges, measure COAL's, addn try to be scientific it would be nice to count on some consistency in the reference materials- and yes I know over the years I have developed my own frame of references.
To be clear I was not talking the difference between various 4350's but rather the variance within a particular manufacturers powder.
Here is a sample of why I asked the question in case anyone is interested

Powder Bullet weight Min Max
H4350 120 43.5 46.5c
H4350 130 38.5 41.9
H4350 140 39 42

It's just wrong, I have used as many sources as I can including Steve's Paged ( RIP Steve). Should be able to see what Lyman's says later today,
I never hot ro my loads and found you can pretty safely go below minimum within reason so I can develop a load without fear.
It is just that with all the shortages, then the amount of new people going to ranges since BHO- makes it less enjoyable or feasible.
I have limited powder and want to try new bullets- even though what I got already works.

You are looking at a few results, your manual, of a system/process that has almost infinite variables in it. To best manage the system data,you should have a few tools. One being a good chrograph. This, along with some common sense, will help you to develope safe load info for YOUR rifle.

BTB, I have six different load manuals aquired over some time. All are different, thanks to the variables in the system.

NOTHING is fhuqking funnier,than a Texan TRYING to "talk" about all the things she can't do,with Instructions setting atop a Siver Platter. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!...............

Thanks to the good folks who answered in campfire spirit.
My post was more a curiosity than a problem - no issue really.
Stick- you may have made a point in there some where?? Anyway, let you know I hold no ill will.....Hope you feel better soon.
Got my Lyman book yesterday. Seems like a coloring book compared to other manuals. Will go through it in more details.

Now if I can just find a little more powder I can get back to having some fun at the bench and the range.

All I can do is hand Texans slack on the rope and watch in constant fhuqking amazement,as they fhuqk EASY schit up. I'd suggest that you simply quit eating the crayons,take notes with at least (1) and simply apply same,rather than awaiting THE "Magic" Book which assuredly does NOT exist. Read that again. Now one more time. Hint.

The only reason this is soooooooo fhuqking HILARIOUS,is that you are undoubtedly doing your best. Hint.

Fhuqking LAUGHING!.................

Meh, it all works out for me just fine. I load, I shoot, do well, have fun with friends and family, kill things, clean things for most everybody....all good. There never really was a problem. Just a curiosity on lack such lack of constancy in published stuff. Enjoy your day.