Over time your favorite easy shooting loads might change. Took my model 70 30-06 to the range last week. First time I've shot it in about four years. With scope it weighs in at 7&3/4 lbs. Around nine years ago about when I hit seventy I started using a relatively mild load of 50 grs of 4064 with a 150 gr bullet. I could put 50 rounds through it in a morning or afternoon and never think about it. It's an accurate load in that rifle and I really enjoyed shooting it. This time I was feeling it at 15 rounds. Tried a lighter load, 50 grs of 4895 with 125 gr bullets and didn't like that one much better. Quit after ten rounds. Woke up that night and the next with a sore shoulder.

I was initially surprised at this as I think I'm in good shape for my age, go to the range about every week and shoot rifles most of the time with no thought to recoil. After thinking about it though the rifles I've been shooting for the past few years are old Mausers that are at least a pound heavier than my Model 70 with light, around 35 grs of powder, starter loads or various 223s. The substantial increase in powder, 15 grs. with my 30-06 load even though it's considered a mild load makes a big difference.

You can reduce felt recoil a lot with a simple change in recoil pads.If that didn't work I would have a break put on it before I gave up on the wonderful 30-06.

Thanks, I'll figure something out. I've got some 110 Sierras. Might try them with Tac.

I used to load 42 gr. of 3031 with 150 gr. bullets in a 30-06 for my daughter. Very easy shooting and very accurate.

A 308 capacity case definitely recoils a bit less. But how fresh is the recoil pad?

Getting old ain’t for sissys, be 70 next birthday.

Birthday today. Still have not reached 80. I don’t shoot 250+ grain bullets near 3,000 FPS at the sit down bench anymore. I’ve sold my 338’s and only my 375 H&H AI is capable of that. For some reason the felt recoil on the 375 seems lower than the 338’s. (Weight is likely the reason) I used to shoot 338’s all the time including whitetail, usually with 250 grain partitions. Made good practice for elk.
That 375 only gets shot while I’m standing up and I have a stand up bench for that. I keep thinking it might be possible that I can still go to Africa and go after Cape - but seems unlikely more and more each year.

Not so much age for me, but neck/shoulder injuries and time for them to get more bothersome. I downsized to all small/midsized cartridges several years back. 30-30 class stuff is about as large as I can shoot comfortably for more than a handful of rounds these days.

Even just putting 10-15 rounds through my 270 Win had gotten to making me feel like someone had taken a hammer to the back of my head, and I used to be able to sit down and put 50-100 through it no problem when I first got it.

Checking the zero on slug guns was definitely my least favorite time of the year, but the state legislature astonishingly had a fit of good sense and finally legalized some rifles for deer here a couple months ago.

A .22-250 will kill most things just as well as a .30-06.

Or a little gym time to build up some extra neck and shoulder strength most likely will make a difference.

You’re on the right track with the H4895. I don’t think you mentioned what you’re shooting with your 30/06, but if it’s just deer and similar stuff at normal hunting ranges, I’d take a 125-150 grain bullet and start backing off from starting loads until you find something you can live with. I’d bet you could get a 150 grain bullet going 25-2600 fps that will kill deer just fine and have about as much recoil as a mouse fart.

You probably already know this, but you can load h4895 down to 60% of any book max load. I am sure you can find a good load combo for your needs with it and keep shooting your rifle.

I have one of those past pads I use at the bench. Makes a difference

I'm not sure that's the way to go. TAC generally operates best at full throttle, so even with the lower bullet weight you may not achieve the soft shooting result you desire.

I load 46 grains of Varget with a 150 partition for my Garand. They are easier on the shoulder in a bolt gun than a max load of IMR 4350.

That should be pretty mild. Have you clocked it?

I loaded some 150s with 46 grains of one of the 4895s and it was very easy shooting.

With a 125 gr bullet and H4895 the starting load is 32.2 gr. Start there and work up as needed. Recoil should be pretty light.

https://hodgdon.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/11/h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf

Happy birthday! Been thinking lately of putting my 375 on the block as I don't see any more safaris in my future. I'm just a punk compared to some, be 69 next month.
The 270 and Roberts seem to have more and more appeal.
43shooter,
Just a folded up towel can make a big difference in recoil if you really want to shoot off the bench. Of course shooting from field positions is usually easier, if you can get into field positions that is.

Because I had a replaced right shoulder, and even before that, 220 gr RN in an .06 was hard for me. I put a break on it and was darn glad I did. Now it feels like a souped up .243. I can do 20 rounds now fairly easy. My Franchi semi 20 gauge kicks more.
Use plugs and muffs at the range, electronic muffs when hunting.

Don't worry about the negative comments you will get, but be courteous at the range by notifying close shooters you have one and use firing point away from others or at the end of the line

Y'all need to put the brakes on when considering "breaking" your rifles!

I tumed a particularly vicious little .30-06 Mauser guild gun (7 pounds with scope, and a very narrow stock) by loading 41 grains 4895 + 165 Sierra HPBT. Very comfy now and certainly possessive of enough moxie for deer killing in the woods.

At the range with pretty much anything over .270 class rifles I always use a PAST shoulder pad - can shoot most rifles without thinking about recoil issues (up to .340 Weatherby and heavy loaded .45-70 which are the biggest I have).

PennDog

You did note that the OP is almost 80 years old, right? “A little gym time” most likely won’t fix his issue!




.

I have not

Yes, I did… will be 79 in February. Just left the gym….bench press, inclined BP, curls, overhead press, 30 min treadmill.

There was a shrimp guy there in his 70’s that was squatting more than he weighed….210 pounds on the bar. I doubt he went 160 himself.

Ya crazy…what a little gym time can do.

Those who never try, will never know where they can go. Of course you know what others are capable of based on age.

Even just doing push-ups everyday will help significantly. Start on the knees doing 10 per morning, then when that is easy do 10 on the toes. Gradually build up each week or second week until you can do 30. Use 43 grain H4895 with 150's for around 2600 fps in the 30-06 in a 22" barrel (300 Savage velocities).

I transitioned my dad away from the 30-06 and into a 7mm-08 when recoil got too much for him. Didn’t sell the -06, of course. He still killed elk and deer just fine with the Mighty -08.




P

Thanks to all for the info & suggestions. I'm not giving up on it. I've had this rifle for around thirty years and it's been my favorite since I cut the barrel down to 22" and put it in a Bansner stock. It's always held zero and shot well, different loads, clean or dirty, hot or cold.

I'm going to hold off trying the 110s and Tac unless nothing else works. I'll start by reducing the 4895 and 4064 loads down to 48 grains. If that doesn't work out I'll try taking the 4895 down a little further.

As far as building up my shoulder and neck muscles, unfortunately they're probably as good as they're going to get. I've been hitting the weights three times a week for a lot of years. At this age I'm just trying to maintain "strength" LOL without injury.

Keep at it!!!👍🏻

Nobody has mentioned it so I will, experience with stout recoiling rifles has taught me to use a recoil shield like a Magnum.Past for zeroing or load work up. Get right down to really reducing your discomfort take some extra strength tylenol or Aleve a half hour before you shoot. It does help. Try them. ..mb

I have used a Recoil Shield myself for years now. Shooting steel butt plated M70's, hard rubber Marlin 444 and 45-70's, and similar make shooting way more fun. Takes a few seconds to slip it on and off. I have a 1/2" one that seems to grip just about any butt real well and allows me to shoot about anything as much as my retinas can stand.

Buy the $2 flip flops at Walmart. Cut the thong off and slide one between your shoulder and the gun at the bench. Tames it wayyy down without adding much to the length of pull.

And yes, down loading is an easy way to help yourself too. My deer at 150 yards folded right up from a .270 with a 130 grain speer at 2600.

For modest reductions in power found best accuracy sticking with the same slower powders used for max loads in .30s and up. Reduced charges of IMR-4831 in '06 and even the .375R. For a given velocity target invariably get better accuracy than with 4064, 4895, 3031. Forget about H-380, 748, etc.

Rarely, if the ES seems large, a hotter primer might help.

Physics sez a larger powder charge must generate more recoil, all else equal. But that isn't the elephant in the room.

2400 fps MV with cup/core 180 gr '06 or 270 gr .375 works. About like .300 Sav and .35 Whelen.

All well and good, but be damned careful messing with reduced loads in larger capacity cases with slow burning powders. You won't be the first guy to wreck a gun with that trick. There's a reason why Hodgdon only recommends 4895 for this kind of work. Read Barsness' writings on the matter for an in-depth analysis.

With the exception of my above mentioned '06 load, all of my reduced loads for medium/large-ish capacity cases live in the 1600-2000fps range and are accomplished with faster burning powders such as 2400, 4227, RL-7, etc. Cost savings are substantial and accuracy is there. It all adds up to more shooting, and besides, a bullet only has to be traveling fast enough to pierce the paper target (and there is absolutely no need to beat yourself up with a day of shooting even if you're a he-man who "loves" heavy recoil). When hunting season rolls around, up the game to whatever power level suits your needs.

That's the same load I use in my Mannlicher-Schoenauer Stutzen which gives 2528 fps. Easy on the shoulder, groups less than 1 1/2", and ample for deer in my woods. What's not to like?

For most of my hunting purposes a full power 300 Savage is plenty. I can soft pedal the 30-06 and still have plenty of juice.

I thought that was a surplus data powder burn rate (and slower) thing?

Also, am not chasing the 60% H4895 floor. More like at or just below recommended starting charges. In my .300s looking for 2800 fps with 180s, 2400 fps for the other two mentioned.

Not necessarily. IIRC the theory is that in a case that is only half full, instead of the slow burning powder burning from the flash hole forward, the primer flame shoots over the powder charge and ignites it all at once, causing tremendous pressure.

I don't change a load that is working as long as I can get the same components. If I'm having trouble shooting it I might add a Limbsaver slip on pad . If that don't take care of the issue I'll shoot a cartridge that already has less recoil or one with a stock design that distributes the recoil of the larger cartridges mo'betta. Good example is 200-220 grain loads in a Krag , I sold my original when I got to the point that those loads were too much for my neck and shoulders to handle. A few years later my dad died and I took possession of his guns. One was a Krag that my great uncle built for him before I was born. He took a Krag barreled action and put it in a Bishop mid grade stock that was actually designed for something besides the Krag. I had a bunch of the 220 grain loads left so decided to try them in his rifle . The difference in the original and the Bishop stocked rifle was night and day . The 220's in it were more like a 170-180 grain '06 load and while not as easy shooting as my 6.5's were absolutely manageable with the hard rubber plate that was on the stock.

OK, thanks. My reduced stuff has nowhere near that amount of air space.

For reduced loads use cast bullet data and use jacketed bullets if you want. 308 30-06 I use 24 grains 2400 and Speer 130 grn HP bullets. Knocks whitetails down out to 100 yds. Plus you can shoot these all day long. For reduced loads IMR & H4198 work just fine. 5744 is another choice for reduced loads.

LV Hunter, have you ever chronoed the 24 grs. 2400/130 Speer load?

I think it was in the 2000 to 2200 range. The speer HP at that speed acts like a SP bullet. The deer that were shot in the rib cage didn't go anywhere. If you shoot that bullet at 3000 + it will explode!

I've been shooting loads with 4198, RL 7 and 3031 for years now... plenty good out to 200 yds plus... depending on your zero.
We're talking 06s here...

have said for years in my old age wisdom, why does one need a 500 yd, elk load to drop a 110 pound black tail at 200 yds or less?

I can still shoot full power 06 loads with no problem.... but what for? it doesn't kill deer any faster than the same caliber with slower velocity.
plus it makes shot placement easier....a slow bullet in the right spot is better than a fast bullet in the wrong spot.

in 30 cal, a ballistic tip or a 30-30 style bullet are my first choices....a 150 gr FN is actually a pretty decent slayer at 2400 fps or so...
has worked for kids I've loaded for, right out to 200 yds or more...

I sure do miss SR 4759 a lot for these types of applications....

Hodgdon quit making it due to it not being as glittzy as other 'more modern' powders....

its beauty was that IT WORKED! but consumers think they need something greater, faster and with more power than what worked last season...

The 30 pounds or so of SR 4759 I still have on hand will last me thru my last deer season, when ever that may be.

I don't back them off as far as you, but my 30-06 cruising along at crisp 300 Savage level is plenty for what I'm doing.

I have one as well and find it very useful for some rifles.

Ditto on your observations re: 4759. If that stuff were still available all discussions regarding reduced '06 loads would begin and end right there. I too have a pretty significant stash of the stuff for '06, .30-40, and .30-30 reduced loadings (mainly with cast bullets though) - not as much as you, but close.

An analogy can be drawn between reduced loads in the '06 and owning/driving a Ferrari: you wouldn't drive the car at its top speed everywhere you go, rather 99% of your wheel time would be at "normal" slow speeds. In 50+ years of messing with this stuff I never understood the attitude a lot of guys have toward pushing the envelope upwards and every single shot they fire being the max they can get away with. Is it a macho/ego thing or what?

I'm drawn to extreme flexibility in my chamberings/loadings. In that instance the .30-06 is a champion, being wonderful for mouse fart loads to bear whackers, and everything in between.

GNOAHHH said, "Ditto on your observations re: 4759. If that stuff were still available all discussions regarding reduced '06 loads would begin and end right there. I too have a pretty significant stash of the stuff for '06, .30-40, and .30-30 reduced loadings (mainly with cast bullets though) - not as much as you, but close."

Dunno if you've taken a look at 5744. I've done a little work with it and the 220 gr. Lyman #311284. Just a few day at a load in the middle of the Data in the Lyman Manual # 50. Rifle was a Browning B78 in the good old 30-06. You might want to take a look at that for some milder 06 loads. Accuracy was decent for a first go at using that powder. Only have one can of #4759 so I'm saving it for later use.
PJ

I used to shoot the 350 Rem Mag in a 600 action quite a bit. I sold it now I still have a 350 Rem Mag in a 700 Classic & a 35 Whelen in a BDL. I can still shoot that level of recoil ok. But I’m tending to lighter bullets than the 250 grain Partitions that I used to prefer - 225’s are nicer to me.
This year, it looks like 90% of the licenses I applied for were declined (South Dakota big game tags are as common as the CNN reporter reporting truthfully). I have a couple white tail tags and maybe a pronghorn. I suspect that I’ll be carrying a 280, 7mm-08 or a 7x57. A 257 Robert’s or a 25-06 might get the nod too. There’s still a chance of getting more tags, we’ll see 🫤. I got turned down in New Nexico and Wyoming too, BTW.

I have gone to lower recoiling rifles myself as old age is coming on. I used to shoot the 30-06 and 270 exclusively but several years ago I discovered that a 7mm-08 recoiled a lot less, and stilled killed everything I hunted quite well. Lately, as the years and aches and pains continue to pile up, I’ve been pulling out a 243 quite often. I may have to try Battue’s 22-250 one of these days. I can’t physically do the gym stuff anymore. I still love that 7mm-08 though.

Isn't it a shame that we learn lessons like this too late in life. We certainly knew that bigger cartridges weren't needed for everything, but youthful pride got in the way,

I'm using my bolt action 6.8 SPC with 110 grain projectiles at just over 2800 fps more and more these days, and it ain't let me down yet. I'm also putting together a .257 to shoot 110's at 3000-3100 fps at the moment. As you get older the lighter rifles are more appealing, so you really need to go down in power otherwise the recoil might start to be an issue. Reducing muzzle blast as you get older is another benefit of the milder cartridges.

Don't know your age, but I have used 50 grains of 4064 and a 150 grainer for decades in an 06....

Me and my model 70 gets along just fine still, with that load... I was born in 1952.

I generally use a folded towel, a flip flop, or a PAST pad when shooting from the bench, even with .308-based rounds. Just makes the experience more pleasant, and I’m in my 40’s.

When I was younger and stupid, I shot 110 gr of Black Powder in my muzzle loader and 370 gr Maxiball. Now I shoot 80 grs behind a 348 gr Powerbelt . My .06 gets 180 gr partitions I use mostly instead of my favorite 220 g RN,

Since I started hand loading in 1967/68….. in handguns, the majority of my shooting was with reduced/light loads. Though, I developed “fire breathing” loads for specific purposes. I didn’t start reducing rifle loads until around 1972 ish…..cast bullets in my .308 Winchester for off season shooting, of Armadillos, snakes, turtles, ect.

That trend continues today…..cast bullet loads for my .375 AI (also my wife’s .338 WM), and cast, light loads for most of our handguns (revolvers)! Though…..we still have and use the “fire breather” loads for hunting! memtb

I love my 600 350 Rem myself. 180’s at 2875 seem like they work fine too.

That 700 Classic is too nice to leave at home.

Back to the range with my Model 70 30-06, some reduced loads and Past harness. 100 yards, calm & hot. Best load for accuracy and light (minimal) recoil was 46 gr of IMR 4895 and 125 Sierra Pro Hunters. Three 3 shot groups with these shot 1/2" lower then my old favorite load of 50 grs. of 4064 and 150 gr Pro Hunters but all were under MOA. One was a lucky .240 clover leaf. This rifle always shot so well before that I wasn't expecting any improvement but I'll be shooting the 125 Pro Hunters with 46 gr of 4895 at the range from now on.

Thanks again to all for the info.

Edit, the ".240 clover leaf' is center to center. Outside to outside is .410.

I'd bet that load will give a buck a hard time!

I used the 125 PH and 125 Ballistic Tips at a cool 2600-2700 in a 308 for friends and family as a loaner deer rifle. It was an excellent killer.

The 350 mag in the 600 was one of the two rifles/cartridges that I lost sleep over when buying my first rifle. I still question my decision! Though, a 350 REM. Mag in a light rifle, may have offered more recoil than a 14 yo kid would enjoy! 😁

But, living where I grew up, I thought that a lever gun was more practical and I liked the idea of it being offered in a military cartridge…..I got a Win. model 88 in .308 Win! memtb

Well, sad tp say I haven't fired a shot since December 2019. On 1.2.20 I was in a bad motor vehicle wreck. Truck was totaled and the doc said no shooting until I clear you. Finally got clear a year later one th have a damn heart attack on 2.27/21. Doc put in a couple of stents and said no shooting. Don't want the shake the stents loose. Finally get cleared bingo, fugging cancer. Asked the doc to put the port for the chemo on my left side so I could start shooting again. S.O.B. put it in my right shoulder. I have quite figured it out yet. Is God telling me no more shooting and hunting, or is the decade of the 2020s trying to kill me or just bad luck with the doctors?

Sorry to have the add the sob story but at the time of the accident I was working with loads for the 7x57. Primarily working at 7-08 pressure levels. I have one load that does 2880 FPS with the 150 gr. Nosler Partition that shoots bug hole groups. Temperature at the time was about 105*. Recoil is mild in a Winchester M70 Featherweight and a Ruger #1A. It does show pressure problems in a custom Mauser. The load was worked up for an upcoming elk hunt.

I'd been considering doing more light load work for a while. The 06 and .35 Whelen were about as much fun as I could stand for a while which led to the experimentation with the 7x57. Using my chronograph and carefully monitoring velocity I reached a safe 2880FPS and a very tight group. Discretion decided to drop back a hair just in case so settled on a load doing an honest 2800 FPS. Groups still .75" or less. If I ever get that damned port out, I'll see how that load works out. I can always drop back to factory level and hope to get close enough to my game to get it done. My 06 flat out loves the 165 gr. Accubond and recoil with my load ain't all that bad. The .35 Whelen worries me a bit but if push came to shove I could probably handle the kick long enough to anchor my game. Just wish that damn chemo would stop. FWIW, I'll officially be 84 in 8 more days.
PJ

Stick with it Paul! Hope you get some range time soon buddy!

Hey Gunner, why don't don't you switch to small varmints with a .22LR for a while? You can keep up your shooting skills , have a lot of fun until you can handle a bigger cartridge.