Has anybody used any AA 4350? Its short cut, meters well and seems appropriate where other 4350s are used.

My burning question ( so to speak..) is if you have used it, did it seem "dirty" to you?

It did seem a bit dirty compared to H4350, also pretty slow in comparison. I've seen several posts that say it varies quite a bit from production run to production run. Mine must be on the slow end. Bought it last summer when my son, cheesy, bought a Win Shot Show Special Low Wall 6.5x55. I was running low on H4250 and H4831sc, so I needed something in the burn range. I ended up sending him off on his Mule deer hunt with most of the last of my H4831sc.

I’m using aa4350 in one of my 7mm08’s with a mag sparkler. Mine doesn’t seem very dirty, but maybe the mag primer helps.

Load data isn't interchangeable but I've had similar good results with all the 4350s. I stick with the H version now as it's one of the Extreme powders, but they all work well. AA4350 is easily the slowest of the three. Never found any of them to be dirty. I use a CCI-200 unless I'm loading a magnum case then I go with Fed.215M or CCI-250.

I never used any of the older AA-4350,but I've used a lot of the newer A-4350.As for the A-4350,I did a test one day in my 30-06 using A-4350,IMR-4350 and H-4350 all loaded the same.A-4350 gave me the highest velocity,followed by IMR-4350 about 10fps behind it and the H-4350 was about 25fps behind it.Group ranged from .50 -.75".A-4350 was the best group,followed by IMR-4350 with H-4350 getting the .75" group.In all honesty,all three powders performed really well and the velocities were not that much difference either.More recently I tried the same test in my 308 Norma Magnum.Same powders,different lots of powder than before.This is how it went:
180gr Nosler Ballistic Tip
69.0grs of H-4350 3028fps
69.0grs of IMR-4350 3103fps
69.0grs of A-4350 3065fps
Now that was a lot larger velocity spread than the test I did with the 30-06.Case fill on the 30-06 case was near full.The 308 Norma Magnum case had a little extra air space,so not as full as the 30-06 case,so that could be a factor.Also,powder lots were different too.I think all three of the 4350 powders are good.H-4350 is supposed to be less temperature sensitive,so I guess if your in an area with extreme temperature changes it might be better for you

Much like Baldhunter, I did some back to back tests with one lot of AA4350 compared to Shooters World 4350, 3 different lots of IMR, 3 lots of Hodgdon, & their long defunct Scot 4351 counterpart. Using a 22-250 Ackley with 53s, a 7x57 with 150s, a 338-06 Ackley with 200s, & a 358 Norma Mag with 250s to get a feel for different capacity cases & different expansion ratios. The lot of A4350 I had was a tad faster than the Shooter's World, which was slower than a can of IMR 4831 I have on the shelf. The Accurate powder was notably slower than all lots of IMR, Hodgdon, & Scot, which also showed considerable differences, even among like brands. I couldn't get enough of the S/W or Acc. powder into the 22-250 Imp. case to be useful. There was over 400fps between it & the "good" lots of H, IMR, & Scot. There was close to 300fps difference in 7x57, 220fps in the 338-06 Imp., & 316fps in the 358 Norma.

I've read other people's testing that disagrees with mine & has AA4350 up there with the others. I think the only "rule" that can be made for the 4350s is that there are grossly different burn rates even between lots of the same manufacturer, although Shooter's World seems to be unrivaled as the slowest.

Like most other powder, once above starting loads pressure, there's not much soot. The spark plugs in all loads were WLRs except the 358 Norma which used Fed 215s.

Thanks for the input guys. Looks like I might have to try a mag primer...I'm shooting the stuff in a .243 and all is good...accuracy, velocity etc but it just seems pretty sooty.I bought a batch because I couldn't find any IMR or H 4350 for months, so I'll have no problem using it up!

Ingwe:

Are you going to give it a try in your 7x57? I'm curious as to the results as the AA seems to be a lot more available than either the I or H versions.

Mike

I went to the place where I usually get my powder, with a long list of powders that I would buy, if they had them. None on my list, but they they had a lot of one pound cans of AA 4350 so I bought some. Going to try it in a .243 Winchester that is fairly new to me, and try to save my other powders to use in rifles with proven loads. Where do you find load info for this powder? miles

Hodgdon has load data online for AA powders


https://www.hodgdonreloading.com/reloading-data-center

Thanks. miles

Mike I shot some in the .275 Rigby...same amount I used in my load for IMR 4350..hit to the same POI and same size groups...worked just fine.

I see AA4350 is available several places now. I just bought a lb from a dealer, Gary’s Gun Shop in Sioux Falls, to try out.

miles,

Here is the link to the Western Powders Handloading Guide 8th edition.

https://ramshot.com/wp-content/uploads/2020/08/WesternPowdersHandloadingGuide8.0_WEB.pdf

I’ve got some loads done in A4350, H4350and IMR 4350 in the 6.5 CM that I hope to test as early as Friday after work. I have loads for it in my .338 WM and .260 Rem. It is a little slower in the .260, but faster in the .338 WM and it’s all the same lot number. I have maybe a 1/5th of a pound left and loaded up some 130 ELD-M’s in the 6.5 CM 2 weeks ago just screwing around. I went and shot them later that day and dang the best grouping load I have in the 6.5 CM to date

I have enough left for maybe 8-10 more rounds and then I am totally out of it. If the velocities are good on the test I want to run, I’ll probably buy more, if not, I’m sticking with H4350 and IMR4350, and would like to narrow that down as well.

It looks like I got an answer to my own question today. Shot the same rifle and load today with IMR 4350...went home and cleaned it. Definitely cleaner burning than AA4350...at least in my gun.

That said, there was no difference in accuracy or any other facet of performance.

Miles ol buddy, hope this finds you well...

I used this site a lot for reference... for your convenience the following link, I just picked a 100 grain bullet for load data in the 243...

other bullet weights are no problem, its an easy site to navigate.. anyway:

https://stevespages.com/243_2_100.html

Now that Hodgdon bought Western Powders, beginning in 2022 their annual magazine style load manual includes AA and Ramshot pressure data. The manual only costs $5-$10. With the Western data, it’s about the most comprehensive manual available I’m aware of.

Naturally it leaves out the competitors powders…

Hodgdon keeps it up and there may not be many competitors left!

I have used AA 4350 in the 243, but found that I liked both IMR 4350, and H-4350 better.

IMR 4350 is what I like, but have none, or very little. I will use what I have left in a .243 that I have had for a long time, and have proven loads for. I loaded up some .243 test loads this morning, with AA 4350 for the newer rifle, but windy today, so tests will wait. But it is a lot cooler. 102 yesterday with a predicted high of 88 today. miles

88 is a lot nicer than 102! Doesn’t archery season open there this coming weekend?

I think so, but I will wait for cooler weather, if I archery hunt at all. miles

Totally understand that as hot as it is. When I last lived there it opened 1 Oct. I got at one point I archery hunted more than gun hunted, but always did better during ML and modern gun.

Let us know how the A4350 works for you.

Will do. miles

I may be a little late to the conversation but I use to shoot a lot of AA 4350 in my 50-90 Sharps.

It shot well for me.

I load AA 4350 for .270 and 30-06 so far with good success. I’m a fan.

I also really like the AA 2495 in .308.

Ok I just got back from the range where I tested A4350 vs H4350 vs IMR4350.

I was shooting my Tikka T3X Superlite in 6.5 CM. I was using once fired Sig brass , Fed 210 Match primers, and 130 gr ELD-X bullets at .020” off the lands. I used 42 gr. of powder for each of the 4350’s and here is what I got. Temp 36F OVC skies and winds 07005KT.

5 shots of each
A4350 Avg. velocity 2474 fps, SD 18, ES 41. 5 shot group measures 1.590”

H4350 Avg. velocity 2675 fps, SD 18, ES 44. 5 shot group .906”

IMR4350 Avg. velocity 2669 fps, SD 17, ES 40. Shot group 1.294”

Granted, this is just one example, but I have averaged 150 fps below book on just about every cartridge I have used it for. I got excellent accuracy results with it in my .338 WM using 210 gr TTSX’s, but again 150 fps avg slower than what was in the manual. I k is every gun is a different story, but I’m done with A4350 and will move to either H4350 or IMR4350 in my .338 as I did not try those powders last year working up the load as I was trying to save what little of H4350 and IMR4350 I had at the time.

I hear you on saving your H4350. I was there a few months ago. Luckily I found 6 pounds though. I still don't use it like I used to though. In conserve mode right now. If you are looking for a good available substitute, try Big Game and shoot for group size. You guys that keep using es and sd are cracking me up. Do your trust the numbers better than your shooting ability? Also, you are way low on your velocities. Look at the Hornady load manual. Max velocity should be around 2,850 fps. So you can lay on the gas pedal a little more, until you reach your comfort zone, I guess??? Your numbers don't really prove anything to me, especially since you are not working on "developing" a load, so to speak. An arbitrary charge weight that you pull out of your azz will likely not ever give you what you are looking for. Just sayin. Also, with a 130gr pill, I would not use H4350. It's not "optimum". You can see that, again, if you look at the Hornady load manual. Some of you guys always pissing in the wind and always end up with yellow teeth for some reason..

Well BSA, the 130 ELD-Ms were what I had extra at the time that I loaded these rounds. I know I said ELD-X, but they are M’s not X’s. As far as ES and SD, I personally don’t track those numbers when I reload, but I figured someone may ask so I offered them up.

Just bought some trying to save what little Hodgdon I have left. I loaded some 140 grain Speer for my 260 and will load some 90 grain Speer for my 6mm. Hodgdon is reserved from my Sierra's so.....shortages have me trying other combos- and paying ridiculous shipping costs. Will see if it is dirtier than others.

Tom,

Two comments:

1)It's not Accurate Arms (AA) 4350, and hasn't been since Western Powders bought Accurate Arms maybe 15 years ago. AA often bought surplus powders, both military and otherwise, but Western started getting all the powders produced to their standards. At that point they became much more consistent.

2) I noticed in a recent thread that you use 39 grains of one of the other 4350s with 100-grain bullets in the .243--which is a slight underload. That wouldn't matter with those two powders, but my experience with Accurate 4350 is that it's considerably slower burning, almost like H4831. If you're using 39 grains of A4350, then the reason its burning dirty might be too-low pressure. If so, I would first up the powder charge before switching to a magnum primer.

John:

I don't want to derail this since it's about A4350 in particular, but do I understand correctly that A2700 is the very same powder as W760 and now-discontinued H414, only in a different container?

Thanks.

Muledeer- great stuff and timely.

Hi Mike,

Sorry to not answer sooner--intended to but got side-tracked. Yes, that's my understanding: 2700 is the same powder as H414 and W760.

Thanks, John. And don't worry about the delay: there's never any rush.

Thanks again.

OK, I'm one step ahead...39 gr. of IMR 4350 is my load. To duplicate with A4350 ( at least duplicate POI...) I use 41 grains. I haven't clocked either load but judging by trajectory they'll be 2850-2900 fps.

First time I've heard that that 2700 is the same as the other two. H414 and W760 match up exactly in the data on the Hodgdon web site, but 2700 does not. Guess that's just the old Accurate data that's different.

Hodgdon didn't admit that H414 and W760 were the same powder until a very few years ago. Prior to that, like everybody else, they listed pressures/velocities that differed slightly due to different manufacturing lots. Which is why they eventually "dropped" W760 a couple years ago--by ceasing to put W760 labels on canisters of the same powder.

Plus, the Accurate 2700 data was shot at the Western Powders pressure lab in Montana, not by Hodgdon. And no doubt was a different manufacturing lot of powder.

Thanks for the clarification, John. I bought an 8 lb jug of 2700 back in the 90s. It always seemed to give me just enough issues with unexpected pressure problems that I never got really comfortable using it. Finally finished the jug a couple of years ago and was actually glad to get rid of it.

Interesting, but duplicating the 39.0 IMR4350 trajectory still doesn't mean that pressures are high enough to result in less powder fouling--since 39.0 IMR4350 is, as I noted already, a relatively low-pressure load for the .243 with 100-grain bullets. In fact, Hodgdon's starting load is 38.5 grains.

Plus, different powders vary on how much powder fouling remains at different pressures. Have also seen a number of handloads result in the same POI in the same rifle, despite varying velocities.

Would be very interested in the actual velocity when and if you chronograph the A4350 load.