It looks like H4831 is the best temperature insensitive powder for the .280Rem.. I am going to concentrate on the 160gr. Partition. A couple of manuals indicate 55gr. of H4831 is max.
I am not a speed freak and willing to trade a few fps for accuracy.
Does anyone else have something to add? H1000?

Reloader 22

WN

Read other threads on similar subjects. If you want to shoot 160s, IMO, you'd be better off with a slower powder. You're not a speed freak? OK, do you want to shoot real slow? Or shoot fast but safe accurate loads? R-22! OR VV-N165 with 160s. You'll optimize velocity AND accuracy. Think slow! H-1000, IMR7828, if you want to shoot 160s. H4831 would work for sure, but it would be on the fast end for 160s IMO.

My 160 load in .280: 60grs R-22, 160 Partition, WLR primer. 24" bbl gets right at 3000fps. And yes its a very accurate load...nobody that knows squat will tell you more speed equals less accuracy as a rule.

I agree with that last sentence.

I'm just curious, but it that one of the loads that you've had someone check via quickload? That's sounds like a strong load for a 280AI let alone a 280. Alliant calls for a max. load using less than that behind a 140 is why I'm askin'.

Well I'll start with H4831 in the 160's and use it as a benchmark.

That's always a good benchmark........RL22, 7828 or Ramshot Magnum probably will do better, velocity wise though. Norma MRP is also very good if you can get any.

MM

mtnman,

Published .280Rem Data is fixed at SAAMI specs for the .280Rem 60,000psi. .270Win SAAMI specs are set at 65,000psi. The 30-06 is set at 60,000psi. Does it make sense? Yes, to SAAMI. The truth is you can run the .280 and 30-06 to 65,000psi safely in modern bolt or singleshot rifles. I don't generally do it with my 30-06 just because. But I handload my .280Rem to .270Win SAAMI pressures. I have no pressure testing equipment. I developed my loads looking at 270, 280, and 30-06 data. I understand there are differences in the bore capacity, and thats why a 30-06 can run a 150gr pill at or close to 3000fps at VERY moderate pressures. While a .270 can do it, but at about max pressure, though within SAAMI specs. So then, why not a .280? Its been my belief that a .280 will do with 140s, 150s, and 160s, what .270 will do with 130s, 140s, and 150s at similar pressures. Likewise a 30-06 will do it with 150s, 165s, and 180s. The differences in wts at the same or near same velocity is a product of the different bore capaciies of each. Alliant's load data shows 165s pushing 2900fps, and 180s at 2800fps and not even really close to max SAAMI pressures. So, thats how I developed my "hot rod" data.

The answer to your actual question is yes its been run through Quickload. Pressure per Quickload was 63,928 and a velocity of 2987fps. Since I have no pressure testing equipment, all I have to go on is that SAAMI says a maximum save AVG. pressure for the .270Win is 65,000, Im attempting to load my .280 and remain at or below safe .270 pressres as established by SAAMI. It appears that in my guns my loads are at that level, though admittedly at the top end. You may not wish to go there, and that is your call.

Some of the things I do that I feel work for me shooting what some consider "hot loads"...I measure each and every charge and I trickle powder to the exact charge wt. I don't shoot my bbls hot. I don't shoot in 100 degree weather. Lastly, I've shot the loads I've published here at the fire for many years prior to coming here. I have only my experiences to go on, and the data in books to help guide me. Thuse far in 20 years of loading I have never so much as blown a primer. Might happen tomorrow, but it aint happened yet. Lastly, I use velocity as my #1 indicator of pressure, then I check the brass signs. Im not saying I can obtain book velocity with the published loads, but the published velocities are safely obtainable on average. Every gun is different. Some are slow, some super fast. Im using the slower end powders. Pressure spikes are less likely to happen with them as opposed to the faster ones. Im obtaining published velocities, and all the indicators I have to go on say that Im doing it within safe pressure specs.

didn't mean to step on a nerve, just curious about the load as it sounded a bit hot. and for that matter apparently it is hot just based on the quickload pressure numbers. Guess the only comment I'd make for whatever it's worth is to say that if you're publishin' those loads for folks, you might wanna provide some of that additional background so they understand that it's walkin' on the edge a bit.

mtnman,

No nerve hit. I just got long winded...I could have just answered the question and left it at that. Yes, Quickload says its hot. According to SAAMI its still under Max Avg Pressure for the .270Win which I consider safe to shoot in a .280Rem. Honestly, IF my loads run an average pressure under 65K psi, I don't even consider that running the ragged edge...BECAUSE I know that SAAMI and the industry have set the "Max Avg. Safe Pressure" well short of the ragged edge.

Bottom line, I don't advocate doing it the way I do it for anyone but me, or someone else that wants to do it my way. For them I'll provide my data freely and issue the standard caveat: These loads have proved safe thus far in my guns, YMMV, work up to these max loads.

280REM you are spot on. I also reload the 280 and 270 to potential. The 270 can handle a 130 with 62Gr of H4831 and a mag primer. Velocity is 3150FPS. The 280 can also handle 59-60 gr of RL22 under a 160gr. I also have been doing it for years. All loads group very well. Brass lasts 20 or more reloads and I also have never blown a primer or had a case separation.

Blessings

PEF

Ed,

Maybe its just me and you bud, but when SAAMI says "Maximum Safe Average Pressere" I take that to mean "The posted speed limit" not "as fast as you can actually go". IOW, "Maximum Safe Average Pressure" is just that...not the absolute ragged edge. FWIW, my .280s have run 140s in excess of 3200fps...with 2 seperate loads. One was my mistake in data, and the other was a box of Hornady Lite Mag. Neither showed signs of excess pressure...unless of course you count velocity as a sign. Personally, I do take that as an absolute sign of being in dangerous territory. JME, YMMV.

Just a quick post of my first session today with the Rem Mt. LSS in .280. After digging thru 30" of snow to get to frozen grass I got the chrono all set up. After some zeroing in and settling the scope in, my results are the following.

55.o gr H4831SC with a 160 gr. Partition, WLR and (-.030") showed 2637 fps. Hodgdon posts it as 2660fps so it is very close for a change. Groups around an inch but too some to many any opinions.

The 55gr. H4831SC load with 160gr. Accubonds came in as a consistent 3/4 - 1" groups. Velocity was 2647fps.
I know SAAMI redlines the .280 at 60,000psi and this load is listed at 49,500psi. I think I have a little room to "kick it up a notch" to see how the speed and accuracy are affected.

CAREFUL!

The online Hodgdon data is not in PSI but in CUP! PSI and CUP are 2 different animals

You have a little room, but not as much as you think! MAX is going to be in the 57-58gr range with H4831, at about 2850fps give or take. Only the slower powders such as R-22, H1000, IMR7828 will give you 2900+ safely with 160s. Not to mention you're running a 22" bbl as well. 2900-2950fps with 160s will be top end!

Mr. Bigwhoop ...

You ARE A WARRIOR!! I'm still trying to figure out when I'm going to run some loads at paper this month in time to attempt "VMAX meets the murder on the North Forty" with the Two Bit Aught and my various 7's ...

BTW ... should you notice a mess of crows that need to be turned into a Non-NEA funded art project with the media of lead, guts and feathers on a snirty canvas ... please PM me before March passes ...

With Noslers, I find them to be "honest" when using a chrono to guesstimate pressures. 2650fps suggests you have room to grow with that load. Kick it up another grain.

If you're happy with the velocities and accuracy with H4831 I'd chose it over RL22.

My Ballistic Tips will almost always turn a tad smaller groups than Partitions--regardless of cartridge or rifle--I suspect the it's the same with Accubonds. If I can (very) slow fire 5 shot 1 inch groups-- and then anything better I consider icing on the cake for a hunting load.

Casey

Thanks .280. Here are my second day results.
I bumped up from 55gr H4831 to 56 - same 160g Partition at the same OAL.
56gr. H4831 = 2687fps - 9 shots total
57gr. H4831 = 2714fps - 9 shots total

The accuracy was quite poor so more work is needed.I am still at -.030" - my usual starting point.

For the 160gr. Accubonds the bump up shows:

56gr. H4831 = 2690fps - 9 shots total
57gr. H4831 = 2744fps - 9 shots total

About 1 MOA with these

I may have to get a pound of H1000 to check on accuracy and speed.

Anyway I didn't have to dig that circle of snow out again to get the chrono setup.

bigwhoop,

If you can get the accuracy you desire and about 2850fps in that 22" bbl. You'll have a very good 160 load.

FWIW, I have done much playing with the .280Rem, and this is JME. H4831 is very near an optimal burn rate for maximizing 150s and 154s. The slightly faster R-19 is near perfect for 139s and 140s as is VV-N160. Finally, R-22 has always given me the top end velocity with the 160s and 162s. VV-N165 is right there with R-22, and to boot it does well across the entire wt range. R-22 and VV-N165 give good results across the entire wt range...BUT they are loads at the very top end of pressure according to Quickload...averaging around 65Kpsi. I'm putting 62grs of R-22 behind 140s currently, and even putting mag primers under 61grs. Still it doesn't yeild the velocity that R-19 does with 140s. IME, you have to be very nit-picky, but you can find the perfect marriage of bullet wt and powder burn rate and SAFELY maximize the .280Rem.

The amount of snow on the ground there...is it really cold too? If its in the teens or lower, you can expect your velocity to jump 50-75fps if you shoot that same load in 70+ degree weather. No powder is immune to temp.

You're bumpin' about 50fps per grain...which is normal with these recipes. That should tell you that you might be able to get to 58.5 or MAYBE 59grs. 58.5 should put you around 2800+fps which is good and should be safe too.

If you're going to invest in another pound of powder for the .280...Id stongly suggest R-22, or VV-N165 (which comes in 2lb cans).

Keep us informed

.280,
Thanks for the dialogue. The .280 is something I always wanted to try but had so much hunting success with the .270 and '06 it was hard to "branch out".
Anyway, so if I want to optimize the 160 gr bullet you would go to R-22 OVER H1000?
SNOW? Yes we got nailed with the last two storms - I had 30" fall over 9 days.
I should get a pic of the chronograph sitting in the dugout snow.

I must qualify that I have shot little H1000. Many say it works well in the .280. R-22 seems to be the optimal powder in the 06 family of cases, atlest with those between 6.5 and .308. The velocity gain over H4831 will be nominal in a 22" bbl most likely. But you may reduce pressures some running the same speeds. JME, YMMV. H1000 OTH may not reach its full potential in the .280 case..IOW you may run out of room on the case before you reach acceptable velocity. If so it likely wont burn too efficiently. Again, its something to play with. If you have another big mag...go ahead and buy some H1000, but I wouldn't if the .280 were my sole purpose. R-22 will give you max safe attainable velocity almost for sure, but whether your gun will like it accuracy wise is another story.

And you didn't ask but I'll offer...IMO the .280 does its best work with 140s. Most any brand of bullet will work on deer and antelope, and well constructed 140 bullets are reputed to be adequate on elk sized game. All running 3000-3150 depending on load and bbl length...there's little more you could ask of a .280. Again, JMO, YMMV. You could do a lot worse than a 160 at 2800fps! A LOT worse! I just like to save 160s for my 7mmRM.

Good Luck!

.280,
I have a couple of 7x57's and thought I would reserve the 140's for them - hence the 160g pursuit. I'll still stick with it and maybe see what a 150gr. will do. I wish powder companies would put out a 4 ounce can of powder so no real committment is made unless the results show promise. I'm sure it is cost prohibitive.
My 30-06 is my "magnum" - with 180 Partitions. Just seeing if I could elevate the .280 to that status. The research will continue.
What does: JME, YMMV, IOW and OTH mean?
Thanks again.

JME just my experience
JMO just my opinion
YMMV your mileage may vary
IMHO in my humble opinion
OTOH on the other hand
IIRC if I recall correctly

bigwhoop,

Understand about the 7x57 and .280 thing. I keep thinking I'll get a 7x57 and shoot 140s in it, 150s the .280 and 160s in the 7mmRM. Let us know what you come up with.

Sorry to be using the net lingo.

Thanks Mathman, just modern day "Morse Code".

I re-read some articles on the .280 and discovered that Boddington likes either 4350 powder and same for Barsness.
So I rustled up 6 loads of 160gr Accubonds with 51gr. H4350 as published max. Oh, oh, the velocity was 2646fps but two consecutive three shot groups were very much less than an inch.
I will creep up to a 2800fps type threshold and see what the paper looks like.

I just ordered dies for my 280.I'll be mostly looking for a good 140gr load.Lots of good info in this thread,thanks guys.

I'm running 53 and 53.5gr. of H4350 and 139gr. Hornady SPs for around 1/2" at 100 yards. Both are about equally accurate but when I go to 54gr., groups open up noticebly. I'll chrony these loads and report back. I don't think they're hauling ace but we'll see what they're doing. Like I said though, very accurate. This is out of a 22" Ruger barrel.

HB,

Let us know, but you ought to be right at 2900fps give or take.

Well, here it is:these loads are with 139gr. Hornady SP flatbase

53gr H-4350: 2864fps, ES=38, SD=5.4
53.5gr. H-4350: 2891fps, ES=44, SD=9.8

Old load that I've used for 4 years using 139gr. Hornady SST

57gr IMR 4831:2982fps, ES=39, SD=7.8

Brass was R-P cases that were once fired for the H-4350 loads and 4X fired on the IMR 4831 loads. WLR primers use in all loads. Rifle is a Ruger M77 Mk II stainless/laminated. Chronograph was 15' from the muzzle and temperature was 70 degrees.

I'll retest these loads again as this was the first time that I've used a chronograph. I let the barrel get a bit warm so that may have had an effect on the ES/SD. Not too mention I had to figure out how high/low to hold. I marked the rods with tap and was a bit too high I think. Vels seemed more consistant when the barrel wasn't overly hot.

HB, I have the same rifle. Mine is the later model stock. I just love those things for the money.

Looks like my Hornady 4th edition was off about 90fps on your H4350 loads. 280Rem was almost dead on!

Your gun may not be able to take the max of 55.1gr, if it does you could try 54.5 and 55 to see if your groups tightened back up.

Scrolling down to IMR4350 Hornady has 57gr as max, sounds really warm to me. Nosler is at 52.5gr for a 140. That is a huge spread. Anybody loaded IMR4350 that hot?

Just some data from the past session.
As said above, the 51gr H4350 load with a 160 Acc = 2646fps.
Today was a bump to 52gr of the above combo (WLR) = 2738fps.
The 53gr. H4350, 160Acc combo went up to 2826fps.
The 54.gr load was looked at but not assembled.
Seems like fairly large increases for one grain. Not used to that.

Say, does anyone know how Hornady came up with 139gr and 154gr bullets? They seem to be unique that way.

not to mention 162gr....

I have wondered the same.

Ruger280,

In my Hornady manual (I can't remember what edition) it listed 52.7gr of H4350 as max with 139gr. SPs and 55.1gr max with IMR 4831 same bullets. In both cases, I'm over book max already according to this manual! I feel that 2900ish with H4350 is about right (again, well stated 280Rem) and the upper 2900s/near 3K is tops for IMR 4831/RL 19. I've went to 54gr. with this powder but the accuracy goes to sheet. Will tinker with the 53.5gr and probably call it good. I can't see being handicapped using a 139gr Hornady at 2900fps on any deer that I'll encounter.

IIRC it is based on metric weights of original euro boolits... 139 grains = 9 grams, 154 grains = 10 grams, etc.

Would make sense that at 7 mm boolit would weigh 9 or 10 grams ...

Bigwhoop,

What's your barrel length? If 22", I'd say that 2750-2775fps would be about right for H4350 (but this is just a guess). As long as it's accurate then I'd be happy but that's just me. If I remember correctly, you have a Remington 700? I understand them to be a bit long throated. My Ruger has a short throat apparently as I cannot seet 139gr. SP flatbases as long as the manual states before I'm contacting rifling! I don't know what effect this has on velocity but this is just an observation.

HB,

If you're happy with that and its accurate, the like is commonly stated, no animal will be able to tell the difference in 100-150fps.

H4350 is a fine powder. You just wont maximize the .280Rem with it in bullet wts heavier than 120. You can come dang close with 140s, but still not IME. 150s and up IME require slower powders to get full potential. In this case with 160s and 162s, Id say 2800 from a 22" bbl will absolutely be max with 4350.

Thanks 280Rem, I believe you are 100% correct and definately have more experience than I do. I was thinking that since 139gr Hornady SPs are short, that I'd be able to get a satisfactory load with H4350. In reality I have. The goal was to use one powder (obviously H4350) in my 30-06/165gr. loads and 243/100gr. loads. I'm thinking I'll be good, at least for the time being. I might be going "slow" at 2900fps but them 1/2" groups are hard to walk away from! That's about as good as I can do with sporter 280 Rem and 6X scope. The best part is so far, it seems consistant. Thanks for the info.

Interesting, I wonder if your manual is newer or older then mine. Let me know what edition yours is if you don't mind.
That IMR4350 load of 57gr and 139gr is what blows me away. If that isn't pushing 65K in ANY gun I would be surprised.

I'll have to look when I get back in town Sunday. I'm leaving from here ("work")this afternoon so I won't be able to find out until then. I'm curious as well on which edition it is. It lists around 53 or 53.5gr as max with IMR 4350 and 139gr bullets.

IF its "pushing 65Kpsi" then its a safe load if you consider .270Win pressure safe in a .280Rem...which it is. My thought is its over that! 57grs is upper end for R-19 and H4831.

I got you.....I should have said above 65K in any gun

FWIW I just checked and have Hornady's fifth edition. It lists 52.7gr as max for H4350 and 53.7gr as max for IMR 4350.

Chad

Good post. I am relativly new to the 280. Your velocity #'s are pretty similar to what I am getting. In my expierience w/ a 280 Rem 700 Mtn Rifle, 22" barrel; RL-19 gave best velocity and accuracy w/ 140's, H4350 gave good accuarcy, but less velocity in 140's. H4831 worked real well as far as accuracy with 150's. I have also tried IMR4350 and IMR4831 but they did not fare as well as the above mentioned powders. My next 280 will wear a 24" tube. Also, the throat on my gun is short. Most bullets I can not load to SAAMI max length. One anomaly I found is difference in cases between lots in Remington brass. I had a lot I worked up my loads with, then switched and everything was 150fps less. I weighed empty cases from both lots and sure enough the new lot weighed considerably less, so had to adjust charges. I have not expierienced this to so much degree in other calibers I load for.

Would love to hear what bullets folks have had good success with on game. I am probably going to be taking mine goat hunting this fall, and would like to use the 150 partition if they shoot well. How about 140 accubonds, 150 sierra GK's any success?

Originally Posted by TomM

Would love to hear what bullets folks have had good success with on game.

You just can't beat 140 & 150 grain Partitions. Some others are as good, none really better.

Also best velocity with both will be with RL19 & RL22.

MM

Agree with Montana Man on bullets and powder; went through the same drill with components back when RL22 had first come out (I forget the year)and I got best accuracy and velocity with RL22 and te 140 Partition. Lots more bullets today but that powder makes the 280 talk.

TomM,

I only have game experience with my 280 using 139gr. SSTs/IMR 4831 at almost 3K fps. I killed 4-5 whitetails from 40-220 yards and they worked just fine. Had two cases where the exits were rather large but nothing horrible and nothing that I would in anyway state "failure". For lung shooting deer they're pretty dang good. I'm switching to the standard Hornady SPs in the same weight though as they're readily available locally and probably won't tear up as much meat on deer that I shoot. The places I hunt in NC and WV you could plan for a 200+ yard shot but would end up getting a 30 yarder on a quartering deer. I don't think that the SST would "fail" me as much as it would tear up more delicious red meat than I'd like. Of course SE whitetails aren't a real tough test for any bullet in my experience. I've found that a 243/100gr put it's to them in good fashion so my tackle doesn't need to be very hardcore.

TomM,

You, like myself, have discovered the beauty of matching bullet wt to powder burn rate to obtain maximum performance in the .280Rem. My experience pretty well mirrors yours. When you get you a 24" bbl, you'll have a nice .280 that you can handload and rival the performance of 7mmRM factory ammo.

Back when I shot the 160 gr. Nosler Partition, I seem to recall using H4831 at 56.5 grs., Rem brass for just under 2700 fps. It shot under an inch out of my 22 inch barrel Rem Mtn Rifle.
At that speed, that bullet still expands and kills very well at over 400 yds.
Whatever I work up, I always test my loads in as warm a temperature as I will use them at 5% over that. If they don't show me ejector marks or are in any way sticky upon extraction, they are OK. All book data is just a guide. So is Quick Load. I've seen Quick Load give loads that were so hot that the cases could hardly being extracted.
Re-22 might be faster during warm temps, but it has a poor rep for cold temps. I'd stick Hodgden or Ramshot powders. E

H4831 and 150 Partitions are sweet loving in a 280. Here's this years blacktail buck taken with JB's pet load. This load has actually tighten up a little with Nosler brass.

Is that a 24" CDL, or a 22" Mtn Rifle? That is a dandy load, and shoudl push 2900fps+. Can't beat that on deer sized game! NICE!

It's a CDL spitting 2960 by my chrony. I bedded it and tweaked the trigger. My new micky mt rifle stock showed up last week from Rick, no picks of it right now. Swapped the scope for a 3.5-10x40 vxiii in talley light wieghts. Sounds familiar huh.

I got one just like it. Bedded, recrowned, trigger worked. Its showed great promise with 139 Interbonds. I just loaded some up the other day over some VV-N160. If I get some time on a day where the wind aint kickin' up 20+mph, I will go shoot it and post some pics.

Hey .280 Rem, where you at with that VV-N160 to equal your 59gr RL19 load? 57-58grs?

Ruger,

I had some flawed data due to my bad documentation skills or something like I misread or mis-set some scales...but VV-N160 is about a grain faster than R-19 in the current lots I have. I had written down I had loaded it behind 154s at 59grs, but when I tried that last behind 139s it sent them screaming out at 3200fps! TOO HOT! So, with the lots I have, and I jsut loaded a batch to test of 57 and 58 grs I'm looking at 3100 give or take in a 24" bbl. Just gonna see if accuracy is there or not.

Great let us know how the accuracy is. I have my eye on a 2lb bottle at Sportsman's Warehouse. For some reason the 160 is the only one they can keep in stock, they have not had any other in stock for quite a while now.

Should work great in my 338wm I load for as well.

If you can, get you the N560. Vihtavuori claims it to be a touch slower than N160, and its known to be even better than N160, though I have no experience with it. Both are available now at Midway. I would think the N160 or N560 would be the cats meow in a .338WinMag with 200-225s.

I originally looked for N560 but was unable to find it, though I haven't looked that hard. I believe it is only a couple bucks more but allegedly a better powder. I bet Basspro or Cabelas carry it.

The shipping costs to order are outrageous...