Do light barrels benefit from reduced power loads?

I picked up a Howa Super Lite and was wondering if lighter loads would be better

No, not IME.

A lightweight barrel is no different than any other barrel in regards to handloading. Work up your load, and let the rifle tell you what it likes. That is true for every rifle ever made.

I’m going with “NO”! The reduced loads may help keep the barrel cooler for a longer shot string before the groups open up!


In a hunting scenario, where light barrels (rifles) shine..…I really try not to shoot long shot strings! memtb

Light Bbl's benefit from reduced strings and frequency.

3-5 shot groups, and then let the Bbl. cool.

Prefer single-base powder as well.




GR

Yes sir, three shot strings and let the barrel cool off in between, bring out few rifles and rotate.

Just to consider the physics involved, a light barrel will move/deflect more than a heavy barrel for any given force. It is generally acknowledged that barrels vibrate/oscillate in a pattern somewhat like a tuning fork when fired. Heavier loads will generate greater forces and therefore cause greater vibrations/ oscillation than light loads.

Thus it would follow that groups from a light barrel will be smaller with light loads on average than with heavy loads as the maximum excursion induced in the barrel harmonics will be reduced.

The period, amplitude, and even the exact shape of the oscillation may vary, but the fact remains, whether with a light barrel or a heavy one, that groups shrink when the bullet exits at the anti-node of the oscillation.

Sorry, but that is a load of bull.

I've got three light barreled rifles (7-08 & 30-06). All three will put two shots almost touching and the. third anywhere from two to five or more inches away. Seems worse with heavy bullets. Resting the barrel seems to help, maybe(?), but I can't shoot even a three shot string. Frustrating because the first wo shots routinely are subMOA. This phenomenon occurs across five or six powders and three to five different charges of each powder. Thoughts?

Free-floated barrels?

Fliers usually indicate bad bedding, a bad load, a bad scope, or a bad barrel. Not a light-weight barrel.

Seems like fliers due to these things you mentioned would occur randomly. That’s not what is happening. Two shots touching to near so followed by a “flier”, over multiple combinations of powder and charge and three rifles.

This is quite clearly true. I did not say that light barrels could not be tuned to shoot well, only that a heavier load would by the nature of physics impart greater excursions in barrel vibration amplitude and therefore would be more critical of tuning or more difficult to tune than a similarly well developed load using a lighter bullet or load generating less force.

Should you doubt this to be true, short range bench rest competitors for example, almost without exception, use light for caliber bullets. I suspect if heavier bullets were as easy to tune they would be used to provide what minimal advantage in wind drift they would provide- even at short range.

There are many factors at play, and no one is saying you can not tune a light barrel to shoot well with a heavy load- only that it is easier to develop an accurate load if the forces generated by that load are less. Reducing a load in of itself would not make it more accurate it still needs to be tuned.

Not necessarily. Bad barrel bedding can cause a variation in pressure on the barrel as it heats up, for example. A bad scope might hold zero for a couple of shots, and then shift internally, causing double grouping. Etc.

I would be surprised if you are consistently getting shots 1 and 2 nearly touching, and shot 3 a flier. Are you sure of that consistent ordering of shots? And it's the same in all rifles?

Random fliers are really just a statistical indicator of the larger group size that is characteristic of the mechanics and load. If you shoot enough shots, you'll see that the random fliers make up a larger cone of holes.

I think you may be confusing the pressure of a "heavier load" with bullet weight. The oscillatory amplitude is dependent on pressure (and therefore force), but not directly on bullet weight. I think you may also be overestimating the difference in amplitude between a load that generates, say, 65k psi and one that generates 58k psi. The difference in the resulting barrel oscillations may be small enough to get lost in the noise.

The example with BR competitors doesn't necessarily support your statement, as there may be other reasons to use light bullets instead of heavy ones. Another possible explanation could be that longer bullets require faster twist rates, which induce gyroscopic deviation from the macro path of the bullet, due to internal bullet eccentricity, which opens up the group enough to matter in the BR game.

I do not disagree with anything you are saying Jordan. However, if you were to choose to tune ten .243s and ten 6 x47s/Dashers/6XCs/6BRs with the same bullet - which do you think would would do the best? Even given components of the same quality I don't think the .243 would come out on top. But I do think the .243s would probably do better than 24 Noslers or 240 Weatherbys on average.

Many factors at play but in my experience I can generally get a fussy rifle to shoot better groups with a light bullet and a fast powder at a moderate velocity than the same rifle shooting a max load (either max velocity or heavier bullet or both)

YMMV

Also, in short range BR the BC of the projectiles may not matter as much as for long range competition. So shorter/lighter projectiles also generate less recoil which aids shot to shot consistency on the bags.

Major mechanical issues.

A thought from someone, that’s not nearly as educated on this subject as many of you! So please humor me.

Could a light barrel benefit from “full-length” bedding, in that, with the much shorter barrel being unsupported by the stock lower the amplitude of the barrel? In other words……smaller barrel cycles, due to a much shorter section of unsupported barrel, which may help smaller groups as the barrel heats! memtb

That is how the Nula's were bedded from the factory. Basically a totally bedded barrel and action, from what I understand. Melvin thought the extra support surrounding the barrel, would help with accuracy. Surprised no one has answered your question. I've tried this, but even with a model 70 featherweight, they like their barrels freefloated 9 times out of 10. YMMV.

Hopefully the OP understands that just because a barrel is lightweight, it can still shoot full pressure loads, no problem. Of course, the stiffer the barrel is, the better it will do over long shot strings. There is a lot that affects accuracy, like whether or not the barrel has stress induced by the machining process. Some are worse than others for sure. We know the companies that make and use great barrels, those being Sako, Tikka (basically the same barrels Sako uses). Also, a lot here are saying a skinny barrel won't shoot great over longer shot strings. I'll disagree to a small extent. I've had some that shot very well. Almost as well as a heavier barreled rifle. But not quite.

Tikka superlite 6.5 CM:

This is a 5.9 pound rifle, so you can make up your own mind on whether or not it has a "light barrel". Those groups were shot back to back.

Another one is a very skinny barreled Steven's 200 22-250:


Both rifles shooting well below MOA with full power loads. Those are 10 shot groups, incase anyone is wondering.

It's all about the mechanics.

As for guys getting fliers with a 3 shot group, that can be exactly like jordan described, or very likely just someone that is not well versed at shooting a lightweight rifle. Others grasping at straws trying to blame the skinny barrel for a rifle not shooting well, are in the same boat. I know they hate hearing it, but there are guys that just can't shoot a lightweight rifle. We've heard it all before, put a towel under it, put a towel over it, hold the scope, hold the forend, put it in a headlock, pray to god first, yada yada yada... Guys like my friend Troy don't get it. They think because the rifle throws a shot, it's the rifle. Sometimes it is, sometimes it isn't.

Look, it put 2 shots close together and then it threw a flyer 3" away!!!^^^^ Sound familiar?

That same rifle shoots like this with my friend Mark at the helm:


Again, with Troy shooting his lightweight Stevens 200 22-250:


Then my friend Darrin shooting the same rifle/load (see names written by the 3 shot groups):

What a huge difference that was. Luckily Darrin swung by the range that day, so I could get him to confirm the rifle. Of course the other guy shooting it was not good enough for Troy to know it was him and not the rifle. He was trying to blame it on the skinny barrel and load. Then it was the scope, and so on and so forth. Like I said, good thing my friend Darrin showed up at just the right time.


Again it's all about the mechanics.

I believe that is what Melvin Forbes did with his light rifles, bedded the full length of the barrel.

Have an action-bedded M700 that I put fore-stock bedding pads in.

Kept adding layers of 1" masking tape in the barrel channel, behind the ebony cap, until there was just a little finger-pressure flex of the barrel.

Confirmed at the range, and it shot lights-out with my bulk ammo and hand-loads.

Then took an Exacro-knife and cut 3/8" squares into the tape, at 45 deg., and gouged the wood at the bottom.

Release coated the barrel, filled the pockets with bedding compound, and mounted the barreled action back in the stock.

When it was cured, stripped away the tape, and file-chamfered the pads.

Sub-MOA pencil barreled M700.




GR

I would agree that smaller powder charges at a given peak pressure typically burn more consistently than larger ones.

Yup, that can certainly be the case if the stock is stiff enough to provide consistent damping of the barrel oscillations.

I got a Rem mod 7 when they first came out. Lightest barrel I ever saw. Also by far the worst shooting rifle I ever shot! bedded the action and floated the barrel, no help. Bedded the barrel under the action, nothing! Finally bedded the barrel solid full length and absolutely no good. Traded it off at a gun show and will never again own a light weight barrel. Old 660 Rem in 308 had a barrel looked like a heavy barrel but only 20", shot great! My 6.5x06 has a magnum barrel. pretty heavy but will hold better than 3/4"! Gun, 700 BDL Rem weight's shade over 8# and I'm in good enough shape to carry it if I want to! I think chasing pencil thin barrels is a waste of my own time!

What Reupold,were you suffering on your Model 7,that "didn't shoot"?. Hint.

I have lots of Sevens,Montuckies and Fieldcrafts...all of which shoot VERY well. None of which are wearing Reupold. Hint.

A recent Montucky 243Win,that "didn't shoot",prior to my attaining it. Hint.



Yarded off the Reupold,schit mounting system,assembled it correctly,kiss,find pressure and rock on at 1/2". Single charge weight and seating depth. Hint.










Lots of Dumb Fhuqkers are quick to malign "contours",when in actuality,such things are largely moot in the equation(s). Hint.

Joe Average ain't very fhuqking bright and always in a haste to prove same,if only obliviously. The HILARITY never fhuqking wanes. Hint.................