I'm going to PM Rick and see if he will make a sticky from this post, and other caliber specific posts as they come up. Would be a great way to share data without constantly new post requesting data for various cartridges.
Here's some .308 loads that my rifle has liked particularly well. OALs are from the casehead to the bullet ogive using a Sinclair Bullet Comparitor. Lapua cases.
OK folks, post your .308 loads that have worked well for you here. If you have proven loads for other calibers, start a post for it, and we'll see if Rick will make it a sticky as well...
Lapua Brass 46gr Varget 165 Nosler Ballistic TIp CCI BR2 Primer always shoots sub MOA (.5-.75) and if I was a good shot , it'd shoot like this probably alot more often
Is that Winchester Brass ? Makes a difference. Those loads, in general, with Nosler BT's, Sierra Match and 155 gr. Palma, Barsnes TSX, Hdy 150 gr. BT's, etc. all work pretty well in both of my rifles. Some better than others, etc. My Winchester M70 FWT. likes 47 grs. of Varget, WW cases, CCI's, and the TSX for 2843 fps. My Rem 700 VSFS like 47 grs. of Varget, WLR's, over the 155 gr. Palma Sierra. Varget is very good powder for the .308. E
I'd be kind of curious to see what kinds of speeds you guys are running with those loads, if you don't mind.
My main reason is that I've worked with 2 barrels for 308's this year, both were 20" and both topped out for speed at about 2700 with the 150's. And both shot very very well by the way.
I'd be kind of curious to see what kinds of speeds you guys are running with those loads, if you don't mind.
My main reason is that I've worked with 2 barrels for 308's this year, both were 20" and both topped out for speed at about 2700 with the 150's. And both shot very very well by the way.
Thx in advance
Dober
Reference my loads shown above, they chronoed as follows:
43.5gr IMR-4895, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - 2739 44gr IMR-4895, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - 2791 44.5gr IMR-4895, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - 2810 45gr IMR-4895, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - 2850
44.5gr R15, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - Not chronoed 45gr R15, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - Not Chronoed 45.5gr R15, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - Not Chronoed 46.5gr R15, 150gr Game King, Fed 210M - 2943
Substituting WLR primers for the 210Ms has added about 40fps w/ R15. Accuracy edge seems to go to 210Ms, but it's close enough that I can't be sure.
My rifle has a definite preference for the 150gr Game Kings over all other bullets I have tried, having averaged .580" for all powder/primer/charge/seating depth combos I have tried.
In my M1A the first load that I tried is now my standard load. Fed GM Brass Fed Match LR Primer Varget 42.0gr Nosler 168gr J4 Shoots 2,550fps and averages .5-.6 inch groups for 5 shots at 100 yards in a factory stock Springfield M1A with a match barrel.
I have quite a few 308's in the collection. They run the spread from para-military to bull barreled tactical jobs. This group was fired in my Kimber Montana upon its return from the gunsmith last weekend.
This is one of my go-to reloads, I shoot it in all of my 308's and it gives me very good accuracy in all of them. I like to use military brass in the bottom feeders, tougher brass is a good thing in that instance. The load is in LC brass once fired and prepped on a Gracey case trimmer (I use their fixture for uniforming the primer pocket and removing the military crimp,) a CCI 200, 44.0 grains a Varget (a max charge in military brass IMO,) and a 168 grain Sierra MatchKing or Nosler Custom Competition 168 (whichever is cheaper by the 500 at the time I order) seated to 2.800" In my 22" barreled bolt guns, this load averages 2650 FPS.
In commercial brass, loaded for the bolt guns, I load a charge of 46 grains of Varget and switch to a Fed 210 match primer. This load is usually in the solid 2700 FPS neighborhood.
168 Sierra MK / N 140 / 41.5 5-shot groups at 100 meter (109 yds.)
Andre, How about some rifle details, you cant post 1/4moa, 5 shot groups and not have any rifle info...
In federal cases 48gr of varget under a 150SST or TSX has been very good for me in a pacnor tube, 2925fps and 1/2 to 3/4 moa.
Same Federal cases and 46gr of Varget works as well with a 168SMK or 165 deepshok (yes I hoarded every last box midway had) at about 2700fps. The loads overlap out to 300yards and then the SMK pulls away with a better BC.
Sure, here's the rifle : Ruger MK II VT (originally in .22-250) rebarreled in .308 with a Lothar Walther S/S Match bbl. + Leupold Vari-X III 6.5-20x40 AO.
I use 42 grains IMR 4895 over hornady 165 grain BTSPs in both my 7600 and my Tikka T-3. Put together with winchester brass, CCI 200 primers with OAL of 2.80.
46 grns of Varget under 165 SSTs in Win Brass lit by WLRs gives 1.5" groups at 200 yards from a LVSF and does a job on deer size critters. 2700 fps avg with very low SD.
I can only recall one instance where some original X bullets over varget provided horrible groups (more like patterns) but other than that it has been pretty much pick powder, bullet, fill case and shoot...
I can only recall one instance where some original X bullets over varget provided horrible groups (more like patterns) but other than that it has been pretty much pick powder, bullet, fill case and shoot...
True!
Funny, I couldn't get the original X's to shoot in anything... til I ran them in a 308. Then they shot moa!
A bad 308 load I have one. Mixed headstamp military brass, whatever primers the gun shop has cheap, Hi-Tech reloading 147 grain FMJ machine gun pulls (resized but with collet marks all over them) seated to the cannelure (2.775" or so) and a thrown charge of 43 grains of H4895 off the Dillon RL550. That load only groups 2 1/2" out of my WBY SUB-MOA for 5 rounds. Spreads are horrible (35 FPS or so) but you can't find a cheaper 308 load to blast out of FN-FALs or HK91's.
Even at its worst, its still pretty good. I've never owned a 308 that wouldnt shoot.
I appreciate this thread as I just picked up my first 308 yeasterday afternoon, an old Rem 722 in 308. I also bought a box of Nosler 150 grain BT's that I want to try in it. Speaking about bad loads for the 308, I know that in the 1970 timeframe, the 308 was used on the Centerfire Benchrest circuit due to its great accuracy. So, I think that finding accurate loads for it should be a snap. Hope that's true for my new/old rifle.
My "GO TO" 308 is a 722 made the month after my birth. I'm 12 for 13 attempts with it on big game.
Good snag.
David,
Thanks. 722's in 308 are hard to find, and I was at the right place at the right time to grab it. It's in excellent condition too. I've now got 722's in every caliber they were made in. Getting excellent accuracy from all of them which surprises me as they are over 50 years old and have been used.
Have 8# of AA 2520 what are some good loads with 165 Gr bullets or 150 gr. (Rem 700 LH HB 24 ") Have shot this load , 43 G AA 2520, WW Brass,F 210, 165 Nosler BT. 2721 FPS looking at primers may reduce .5 gr. Does velocity look normal?
I couldn't save the target since it was on a target board but earlier this week I tried out my Blaser at the 600yd line during an informal HP shooting session. My load was 44.0grs of N-140 and Moly'd 175gr SMK's in Lapua cases with GM210 Primers. On a high power target (not F class) it shot a 200pt 11x and I could touch all the holes with 1 hand. It was the first time I'd shot that rifle at that range and was pretty pleased with the results. With a little better wind reading I think the group size would have halved in size or better. -I was zeroed at 200 and it ended up being 13 1/2 minutes come-up.
Anyway I think 44 or so grains of N-140 might be a very good max load for bullets in the 175-180gr range for the 308 Winchester........................................DJ
With 4895 (either flavor) and Reloder 15 available there's no real need to go shopping unless you feel like it.
mathman
Thanks. I do have both flavors of 4895. Just cleaned up the barrel on the 722/308 today, and the bore looks like it has never seen a bullet go thru it. It is perfect. I have some brass, and am waiting on dies that should be here tomorrow, or Tuesday.
I didn't try it, as these were some older "test" handloads I was using to get a scope dialed in after mounting. There was likely room to go 46grains. It's my father's rifle, and he like the 150gr load.
Like most I have found about any powder of "around 4895" burning rate to shoot in the .308 with 150-168 grain bullets. But lately I have been running 46.0 Varget in all our .308's for a hunting load, changing only the bullet. Accuracy has been better than average in all, and muzzle velocities have run from 2800 (in my wife's Serengeti Artemis with 21" Lilja) to 2900 (in my Merkel single shot's 24" barrel). Varget is also as temperature-stable as any powder in this burn-rate range, which helps since we have used these loads at widely varying temps in North America and Africa.
But I also suspect we could use single-based horse manure in the .308 and groups would be under an inch at 100.
John, over the last ten or twelve years Varget and RL15 have become my go-to powders in the 308. Generally accuracy between the two is indistinguishable but RL15, from lot to lot, is generally 25 - 50 fps faster than Varget. Why this should be, I can't explain but it usually nudges me to RL15. I'm not a speed freak but hey, if it's there I'll take it!
RL-15 is the powder for our military snipers because it is the powder that was accepted for U.S. military use. This does not mean that it was the powder deemed best for that exact purpose by vast testing, though it is a good powder.
The U.S. military also decided to make a unrepairable, rather cheap binocular its standard a few years ago, just because it was OK and was cheaply replaceable.
I am not putting down RL-15. It's a great powder. But because the U.S, military uses anything ain't a reason to think that anything is best. A lot of soldiers buy some equipment because it is better than issue.
Fort Benning AMU, Fort Bragg, USMC, and US Navy SEALs all do R&D on rifles and loads. They have selected different rifles, but all settled on RL-15 for the 7.62x51mm.
MuleDeer didn't name the Army binocular he disliked, but I assume he is talking about the Steiner 8x30 Miliary Marine. I happen to like it for its intended purpose. It is light, and because it does not require refocusing for various ranges, it is easy to lift out of a pocket and use with one hand for a quick look by a platoon leader. The Steiner 7x50 is used for more serious observation by infantry and armor.
The hippies didn't invent the term "appropriate technology".
Funny, a friend had a pair of Steiner 8x30 MM's... I thought they were complete chit.
I totally concur!
I bought a pair back in the fall of 01 to have as a loaner pair while guiding, I couldn't return them fast enough. I wouldn't wish them on my worst enemy!
Take it up with MuleDeer. He didn't identify the binoculars; I am just guessing.
There is no such thing as the "best binocular", only the best one for the job at hand, and even then, you may not need the very best and most expensive. A lot of brand name sales pitch is to insecurities of the customers, and their inability to actually discern, appreciate, or place a value on the differences - so they buy the most expensive and famous labels, which may actually be not the best or even unsuitable for their intended use.
I have no prejudices against lower-priced binoculars (read my most recent post in the Optics forum under "best binolcuars for around $300") but have looked through enough binoculars in ALL price ranges to know a POS when I see one.
Since you don't name the binocular, define the application or your criteria, nor your definition of "POS", no one can discuss it with you.
Whatever you consider a POS may do quite well for someone else. Whatever you consider a good buy, or "best binocular", might be useless for another hunter, and considered a POS by another one.
On "How It's Made" this morning they had a segment on making binoculars. It turned out to be Steiners (they showed the finished binocs with the logo at the end). As they were putting them together I kept thinking, that doesn't look too precise. Especially when the lady putting the binoculars together was using bare fingers touching the lenses.
For the new .308 RL-15 43.7gr and barnes 168gr TTSX has been great and sometimes scary good.
Any using barnes 130gr TTSX? Have found one load that stays moa to 300yd, but never any spectacular groups at 100. Could it be the 1:12 twist holding it back? I would not think that to be the case, but many have more experience than me.
Any using barnes 130gr TTSX? Have found one load that stays moa to 300yd, but never any spectacular groups at 100. Could it be the 1:12 twist holding it back? I would not think that to be the case, but many have more experience than me.
Battue
130gr TSXs (haven't tried TTSXs yet) have averaged .957" at 100 yards for every load I have tried through with. Not too bad, but not nearly what this rifle will do with other loads. Interesting to me that neither seating depth nor powder charge have made any definite difference in group size. My barrel is a 1-11" twist. I kinda doubt twist is the issue though. I haven't stretched them out to 300, but probably should. MOA to 300 isn't too bad...
I got the new Speer book and reloaded some using RL 15 The loads were shot from a 1956 Winchester 88 with a 22" bbl. 49 grns gave 2926 and 1" three shot groups. 46 grains gave 2750 47 gave 2812 48 gave 2912
I got the new Speer book and reloaded some using RL 15 The loads were shot from a 1956 Winchester 88 with a 22" bbl. 49 grns gave 2926 and 1" three shot groups. 46 grains gave 2750 47 gave 2812 48 gave 2912
The US ammo specs manual list the LC 308win match load as a 168 gr over 42 gr IMR4895 at 2.80 =/-.03. I tried the same load w/ H4895 but found that a half grain less of the H gave me better results.
I have a bunch of that LC Match 173 gr., The bullets were pulled and the 168 Sierra HPBT were put in. This was for High Power Comp.. I believe the powder was 42 grs.. And that is about what I load with RL-15.
After all these years I finally got a .308, only because I wanted the rifle (Ruger 1B, 26" barrel) and it happened to be a .308. Anyway, 45 grains of Varget cci 200, R-P Brass gives me an average of 2740 with a 165 grain NBT .020 off the lands. Shoots moa which is pretty good with me shooting.
I like Varget, keep a lot of it around for a number of applications.
Have you tried working up to 46 grains? In RP brass with CCI 200 primers that's been the really sweet spot for me with 165s in several rifles.
Mathman, what kinda velocities does that load give you. I went up to 45gr in Lapua brass, which gave me 2752fps. Accuracy was very poor, but 44.5 gave me just over .5", so the 45gr may be worth trying again.
The last time I clocked it I saw about 2740 from a 24" barrelled Kimber Longmaster.
In my generously throated 700 LVSF I find 46 grains to be too much in Lapua cases. With the shorter throat in your rifle I don't think it would like 46 in Lapua either.
In my 22" LVSF barrel I found 45 grains to work well in Lapua at about 2670 fps.
I'm beginning to think the shorter throat and probably tighter bore in your Krieger need about a grain less to reach the same pressure/velocity balance as my barrel. Did you try 44 grains with the 165s?
With the 165gr Hornady, 44gr Varget gave me a .794" group but for some reason, I didn't get to chrono it. More accurate was 44.5gr giving me a .554" group with 2675fps. Mighty close to your 2670. There might be a common accuracy node there. I'll have to try that one again...
Have you tried working up to 46 grains? In RP brass with CCI 200 primers that's been the really sweet spot for me with 165s in several rifles.
I did try 46 grains but accuracy started to slip. I'm not too concerned, I'm happy with the speed and accuracy I'm getting. This is, after all, just a single shot Ruger that will never be used as anything but a hunting rifle.
The best load for my .308 (Savage 10FP, 26" 1:10 barrel) is 43.7 Varget with Berger 185 BTs, Lapua brass, BR-2s. Next would be 175 SMKs with 43.3 Varget. Both are better than I am.
My 84M with 46 grains of RL-15, 150 grain T-TSX, Fed.210 primer, Remington brass, will do 2840 fps. With groups at .2, .4 and so on. All the groups I have shot with this gun, have been under 1/2 inch. With this load.
There's a great new article in Handloader magazine, December's issue entitled, "Developing an accurate 308 load". They evaluate various brass, bullets (all of which are in the 165-168gr. range) and primers on accuracy. The article settles on Varget and R-15 as the powders of choice. The most accurate virgin brass was Nosler, worst was winchester. The most accurate once fired, neck sized only was also nosler followed closely by federal plated, winchester, remington (plain). These are out of 10 types tested. The best primers were-in order, cci 250, federal 210GM, federal 215, Win LR (out of about 12 brands tested. Worst was cci br-2. The tester settled on 45 grains Varget. The most accurate bullets (all seated to just touching the lands) were 2 berger 168gr match bullets, followed by 167gr. scenar hpbt, 168 sierra matchking, and hornady 165 interbond. These were the top 5 of about 30 bullets. Hornady 168 amax, 165 fusions, 165 accubonds, 165 hpbt sierra gameking, 165 sierra spbt, 165 spfb interlock hornady, and 165 bt noslers all did among the tops in hunting bullets. Federal gold metal match was the most accurate factory loads of several match type ammo. Worst factory ammo was Indian made 7.62 Nato Ball M80. Velocity ran about 2767fps with 45 grains of varget. 46 grains varget gave 2825fps but tester felt that was too close to max given the many variables (primers, brass, bullets) they were dealing with, so they stuck with 45 grains varget. Interestingly they also tested brass life before failure in full sized cases after every shot. Shortest brass life was with Nosler, Federal Military and Hornady (all lasting 11 to 12 reloads). Remington plain, plated and Norma lasted the longest with 20, 22 and 24 firings before failure respectively. All in all My take away is Remington brass, varget 45 grains with cci250 primers and 165 hornady inerbond, 165 fusion, 165 accubond, or 165 hpbt gameking would be a great recipie to work up to in any 308 with the same twist rate as the Test rifle, a sako TRG-22. Tests included 145,5-shot groups. Most of which were less than 1 inch and many under 1/2 inch. This article is a great read for any 308 loaders. Hope this helps somebody out there.
Laughing here. Long ago settled on 168 gr Sierra, 45 grains of Varget, Lapua brass and Federal 210 match primers for my match load. As you might imagine - it shoots well.
I simply substitute a 165 Nosler Ballistic Tip or a 165 Sierra Gameking for a hunting load...
I don't have ready access to my magazine right now, and I read the article a while back so I'm writing this from memory.
I have a problem with the author's methodology. As you mentioned, he chose "the most accurate powder charge" of 45 grains of Varget with one of the constraints being no pressure problems in any of the component types. He's not going to get the best load right there. I assure you that in RP brass 46 grains will be more accurate than 45 grains with 165/168 grain bullets in most rifles you would care to test it in. A charge that is safe and "best" in thick Nosler or Federal brass isn't going to be the berries in thinner brass having more capacity like RP, or the even more capacious WW.
My montana has a 12" twist. What would be the optimal bullet weights for this twist rate??? That Sako test rife from above has a 11" twist rate and shot great with 165-168grain bullets. Are there different implications for my twist rate and optimal bullet weights in 308???
this was a load using a soft point hunting bullet loaded to 2.75. i have yet to bench my new load w/ FC brass, BR-2 primers and a 2.82" COAL
You gotta love Steyr SBS Prohunter's. I have three: two .308's and a .280. This load is a 130grTTSX with 50.5gr RL15, GM210 primer, Win brass. 100yds = .217"
Does anyone use H380 in their .308? I had a M788 a few years back that LOVED H380 for sub 1/2" groups at 100 yds. I have an FN PBR XP in .308 coming this week and want to put together some loads for it. I think I need to go buy some Varget or RL15...
Did you ever check the velocity for your H380 load. I played with some years ago and found it too slow for the 308 with 150 and 165 grain bullets.
I've done a lot of 308 handloading since then and I'm pretty sure you'll be happier with Varget, RL15, IMR4895, H4895, W748, N140, IMR4064 or IMR4320 with typical bullet weights. Catch the drift?
mathman, I didn't have a chronograph at that time, but I still use the same .30-06 load that I put it up against them. With my .30-06 slinging a 165gr. BT at 2850, the same bullet from my .308 with 51 gr. of H380 behind it hit 3" lower at a measured 350 yds with identical POI at 100 yds. I know that's not conclusive, but I've killed deer with both loads at over 400 yds. I'll swing out to Cabela's and pick up some Varget this afternoon, put some loads together with that and H380 and compare them over the chrono. Selmer
How did you get 51 grains in the case under a 165? I was running into compression issues with 48 grains which was Hodgdon's listed max back when I played with it.
I'm heading for the range in a few minutes, but I think my chrono is dead.
I have a new one after today. 43 grains of TAC, 150g TSX, Lapua Brass and a CCI 200. Pretty sure its not going to be a screamer but man it was accurate. 150's sure are nice to shoot too.
My buddy says 2 inches high, next shot dude you missed, dude you missed again. I thought what the hell so grabbed the spotter and set it up. I said nope there just all together Tried that load again and another clover leaf. Tried to set up the chronograph but it was too cold for it to think fast enough.
Pretty sure its not going to be a screamer but man it was accurate.
Ramshot's data doesn't show a TSX but their 150 grain data indicates you have a good bit of headroom. You may be able to work up to another good accuracy node at a higher velocity.
I worked it up to 46 but the groups started to go with it. Got extractor marks on a couple of the 46gr loads. 44 and 45 grs were still under a inch. It was 0 today with a pretty cold wind so I will run it over the chrony next week. If any thing its a nice light load for the wife to shoot
I'd have guessed it would pull back in tight when you got close to max.
It'll probably kill deer pretty quick anyway. An easygoing load with a 150 grain Hornady launched at a little over 2600 fps killed them no muss no fuss for my dad.
If you'll save me a search, how much Re15 are you running in the Lapua brass under 150s?
I've worked up to 46.5 grains with 150 gr. flat base Interlocks. The groups are pretty good overall size wise, but I see a little vertical stringing at 200 and 300 yards that I think I can pull in with a couple more tenths. Some folks are finding the goody zone a bit over 47 grains, but that's not in Lapua brass. So I'm creeping up slowly.
mathman, to answer your question, it's a tight fit! I was wrong in my statement, it's 50.5 gr. of H380 under a 165 gr. BT. I haven't loaded that load for about 6 years since I sold the 788. I loaded some up last night, previously I wasn't aware of how much I was compressing the powder, but it was blatantly obvious to me last night. We learn constantly, right. I'll give them a run, but I've also picked up some Varget and RL15 to try out in the new rifle.
47g of re15. Its a compressed load as well. Never ran it over the chrony either. If I had to guess I would says its probably around 2850 ish' The barnes manual list 150's with 48grs of re15 as there max. I had no pressure signs at 47.
Thanks, I'm going to keep creeping it up. Those Hornady flatbases are buying me a little extra room, and they'll crush any deer I'm going to come across.
If you'll save me a search, how much Re15 are you running in the Lapua brass under 150s?
I've worked up to 46.5 grains with 150 gr. flat base Interlocks. The groups are pretty good overall size wise, but I see a little vertical stringing at 200 and 300 yards that I think I can pull in with a couple more tenths. Some folks are finding the goody zone a bit over 47 grains, but that's not in Lapua brass. So I'm creeping up slowly.
Dave,
46gr R15 gave me 2951 fps with 150gr Hornadies from my 22" Krieger. No way I would go higher, but your rifle may be different...
Anyway you're right, my rifle is different. My factory 700 has a long throat and I'm not anywhere near the lands with a 150 stuck in the case very much at all. I don't have my data in front of me right now, but I know for sure I'm not getting near the velocities you've listed with 15 and 4895 despite using the same components and amounts.
I can't recall my Lapua based numbers, but in RP hulls I know I'm nearly 200 fps short of what you're showing with 46 of 15.
You're on top of it as usual. If your rifle chronoes that much less, you should certainly be able to bump it up a little.
On a side note, I picked up 300 rds of '82 LC Match brass here off the classifieds. Compared case weights to Lapua. Very comparable, so I'm thinking similar capacities. Haven't measured neck thickness, but based on runout, It seems to be pretty good stuff...
Hondo64d, I picked up a lot of '81 LC Match from the same guy, I had the same opinions. I have it all prepped up and have run a few loads out of it. I'm shooting an FN PBR XP .308 and 46.5 gr. of Varget is the load for that rifle with 165 gr/168 gr. projectiles. With 165 Nosler BTs and 168 SMKs seated to the same OAL they both group under 1/2" at 100 yds, and the 165 Nosler actually outshot the SMKs at 200 yds. The SMKs shot a 1.1" group-10 shots , the BT - 10 shots, I could cover that group with a quarter, just a big hole in the paper. I did run the H380 loads through it and they were ok, no pressure signs, but they didn't group as well. Grouping being relative, no 5 shot group I've shot at 100 yds with this rifle has gone over an inch.
At your convenience please weigh one of those deprimed LC cases for me. I'm interested in comparing them to my reference brass.
I've read your recent posts and I'm wondering how you're getting 46.5 grains of Varget in there under 165/168 grain bullets, both capacity and pressure wise. For example 46 grains is a good max in my RP brass that weighs about 15 grains less than the two vintages of LC match I have, and when I throw identical charges into the cases the capacity difference is made clear by the height of the powder column in the case necks.
mathman, I'm having no problem getting the powder in, I have about .25" of empty case neck when I'm done charging the case with the Varget. When comparing the case capacity, I used H380 as reference powder for max case capacity. When trickled in as carefully as I could in an RP case and a LC Match case the LC Match was .5 gr. less than the RP brass. They were trimmed to the same length and fired in the same chamber. I'm showing no pressure signs using this load in the LCM brass and I'm going with it. I'll weigh it before I take off for home tonight, I'll do an average of ten for you.
I have about .25" of empty case neck when I'm done charging the case with the Varget.
Yeah, that would be too full for me even without pressure signs. I've found that my Redding competition seating die doesn't get along with compressed loads too well. The loaded round runout goes up and the overall lengths (measured from case head to bullet ogive) become less consistent. In the RP cases 46 grains does best when I slow pour it in through a drop tube.
I swirl it in using the powder funnel. I've found this technique to be more conducive to getting more powder into the case. My runout is staying under .003" with my Forster BR seater die, which is good enough for me.
mathman, sorry, I haven't taken the time to weigh cases for you yet. I did go back and check out my "head room" with the Varget, with 46.5 gr. it just comes up to the bottom of the neck, so it's a little more than I thought.
I'm running out of comfortable capacity developing some full steam hunting loads with RL15 in Lapua brass. If I need to up the charges a little more I'll see if I can refine my swirl technique.
Lots of good info in this thread, and it seems geared towards bolt actions. I'm looking for something a little different if anyone can help me.
I recently picked up a very pristine Remington 7400 in 308, I'd say less than 40 rounds through the gun.
I have 300 military cases headstamped 'wra 67', small based resized, and 3 boxes of Hornady Interlock 150 grain flat based bullets.
I've never reloaded for a semi auto, and have been told you need a faster burning powder for the action to operate properly.
Since I need to purchase powder and primers, I'm looking for suggestions on a powder that will burn clean and is fast enough(?) to reliably cycle the action in military cases, and still give decent velocity.
Does anyone load for a semi with military cases? I'm looking for the right powder, and starting/max loads in military cases. Any suggestions would be appreciated, thanks in advance.
I don't know about the 7400, but the stuff you generally see about semi-auto 308 appropriate powders has to do with loading for the M14/M1A type rifle.
It's not just about being fast enough. It's about being in the proper range to provide the correct gas port pressure to properly cycle the action. The 4895 type powders are pretty much in the middle of this range.
With a 308 it's pretty hard to go wrong with a 4895, either H or IMR. Ramshot TAC is a modern ball powder in this burn rate class, but I haven't tried it yet.
Be sure to be careful with loading data that was developed in commercial cases that have greater capacity than military ones.
Mathman, When I said 'fast enough', I was saying what you meant, LOL, just worded it badly perhaps.
I was thinking IMR 4895 or 4064, rather than a slower burner like 4350 and figuring with the military cases the middle of the road loading would be more like the max load. Just want to make sure I'm thinking along the right lines.
4895 and 4064 are classic 308 powders. I can't imagine a circumstance where I'd use 4350 though.
Do you like to throw powder charges? 4064 is great but it's a pain in most powder measures. With my bolt action 308s it's easy to get sub-moa results with IMR4895. With LC match brass that has been sorted for neck thickness uniformity I have my Model 700 VTR shooting 1" ten shot groups with thrown charges of 42 grains of IMR4895 and 168 grain Nosler match bullets. This is with ambient temperatures between 55 and 60 degrees F and no pause for barrel cooling.
Mathman, I've never reloaded 308, this is my first time ever messing with one, and in a semi-auto no less. I do weigh all my charges.
I used 4350 as a representative example of a slower burning powder I use amost exclusively in my 06's, was not really aware wether it was good in a 308 or not as I don't have any expierence with the 308.
So I should be thinking along the lines of 4895/4064 with the middle load in loading manuals being considered the max due to the military brass? Thanks.
Some manuals show a lot more spread between top and bottom charges, so depending on the source a mid-level load may be more conservative than necessary.
With either H or IMR 4895 and a 150 grain bullet you should be OK to start at 41 or 42 grains, basically a 300 Savage load. Work up carefully from there.
Has anyone tried a reduced (managed recoil)load in the 308? I have a Knight KP1 single shot in the 308 and I wanted to try a reduced load for my daughter. I want to shoot a 125 grain nosler ballistic tip.
Also, has anyone have a good load (not reduced) on the 308 with 125 grain nosler ballistic tips?
I have tried 50 grains of varget and get decent groups but I think it could be better.
Dad started us on the .308 with 47 gr. of IMR 4831 and the 125 gr. BT. It was hell on deer, and my brother still uses the load. VERY easy shooting and we've taken deer past 300 yds with it.
I found a pound of varget yesteday after a bit of looking and 100 of the hornady 150 BT interlocks for my new Ruger international .308. Anyone have a favorite load for the 18.5 inch barreled mdle 77 RSI?
A generic load that isn't too stiff in most cases is 46 grains of Varget under a 150. Adjust up or down a bit and you'll likely hit the node pretty quick.
There is a higher node with Varget and 150/155s but it involves amounts of powder I hesitate to recommend. The pressure is getting up there and case capacity issues are heavily in play too.
Given the rifle in question I'll bet your application doesn't require every last foot per second. Work the loads to find that lower node.
Here's a couple more that are showing some good potential. So far, the 168gr Ballistic Tips are impressing me. These are five shot groups from a bipod. OAL includes Sinclair bullet comparitor. These are about .030" from the lands in my rifle.
I have been working with a Winchester model 88 in 308. Last week I shot a 0.75 inch 3 shot 100 yard group with Sierra 150 gr Gamekings, 47 gr Re 15 and Fed 210 primers. COL was 2.770. The velocity was 2855 FPS. Brass was Nosler.
I ran out of those primers, so this week I used Winchester WLR primers with everything else the same. Velocity was 2873 FPS and the three shot group was 0.54 inch.
Pressure seems OK with this load in my rifle, be sure to start low and work up in yours. This gun shoots all 150 and 165 grain bullets well less than 1.5 inches at 100 yards. If the trigger was better, it might be the perfect deer rifle. I am growing fond of it and the 308 cartridge.
You guys have alot of very informative info here on the .308, what with different powders, bullets, primers, but especially cases. For whatever the reason, I'm fairly new to the .308, having shot the usual suspects. On a previous post, I mentioned my .308 has a 18.5" barrel; but what I've seen here, it looks like Re 15 might cure my ills with Varget, as for whatever reason that just hasn't clicked. I'll still load both and see what I come up with, and see what finally works.
I went to the range today with my Ruger M77 with a 18.5" barrel[Mannlicher stock], and some 150 Nosler B.T.s over 46.0 Re15,Fed.210 primers,Win cases, OAL set at 2.800. That rifle shot verrry accurate. .9-1.25" at 100 yds. It has never done that with any other load I've tried before. FPS chronographed at 2680-2700, which was faster than I expected. Hope this works for you jimmyp. Good luck. Rifletom
Here's a couple more that are showing some good potential. So far, the 168gr Ballistic Tips are impressing me. These are five shot groups from a bipod. OAL includes Sinclair bullet comparitor. These are about .030" from the lands in my rifle.
43.5gr averaged 2662
44.5gr averaged 2701
John
Here's another with 168gr Ballistic Tips. 5 shots. 45gr R15 about .030" from the lands. I think I'm in love...
Yeah, I hear it crunching whne I seat the bullets. Averages only about 2730. Velocity increase per powder increase seems much less with this bullet than others of the same weight. Not sure why...
I found a pound of varget yesteday after a bit of looking and 100 of the hornady 150 BT interlocks for my new Ruger international .308. Anyone have a favorite load for the 18.5 inch barreled mdle 77 RSI?
Jimmy. You're shooting one of my favorite rifles. I have three of them,every one picked up on the cheap because they would not shoot for their previous owners.. I'm not sure what they expected from a short barreled rifle with a full length stock, but I'm sure they didn't get what they wanted. First off, mine are all the earlier tang safety models, all made in 1985 acording to the SN#s. I look at hunting rifles a bit more realisticaly than some as I've never had the strength to carry a bench rest out I the boonies. It took over 6 months of work to find an acceptable load for my rifle, the usual suspects not working worth a damn. The load that finally worked decently in all three rifles was 49.0 gr. of W-760,165 gr. Speer Hot-Core, Winchester brass and primer. Accuracy ran from 1.25" to 1.50" depending on which gun I was shooting. Velocity is no barn burner at 2550 FPS average from all three guns, but then W-760 is not the best powder for the .308 anyway. It just happened to work. I've passed it on to others who had .308 RSI rifles that would not shoot and it also worked for them. FWIW, I took a 200 pound Mule Deer at 250 yards with that load fom the RSI and it dropped on the spot. Distance was laser measured. I've already sen you other posts and you already have a decent load or two. so consider this as information only. If you try it, start at least two gr. less and work up as the load is safe but max in my guns. As an aside, the same load does 2610 FPS from a 22" barreled Winchester M70 and is MOA in that rifle. FWIW, look at that metal muzzle cap on your rifle. I removed just a slight bit of metal from the sides and the bottom of the curve where it contacted the barrel. It made a difference in the groups reducing them to 1.0" on one rifle to 1.25" on the other two which were 1.50" guns to begin with. As these changes made a difference, I'm thinking about looking at other loads to try. Maybe the guns will shoot other stuff better now. I've got a batch of RL-15 I bought to use in my .35 Whelen, but seeing all the good comments about it in the .308, I guess I'll have to load up some and see what happens. I do love my .308s. Paul B.
Just an added comment on my pet 165 gr. .308 load. It has proven tobe safe regarding pressure in three Ruger RSI rifles. a Remington 660 and a Winchester M70. However, yesterday afternoon, I loaded up a box and went to the range with a new custom Mauser in .308 and while there was no problems other than very flat primers. I do believe that the load is too hot for that particular rifle. That was a rude surprise as the load has always been rather mild in the other rifles. Therefore, I will amend my comments on the load to add start about two grains of powder lower and work up. Paul B.
Anybody loading or have experience loading 180 gr. Scirrocco bullets for the .308? Have almost a full box left, and the only .30 caliber rifle left is a .308.
I was playing with IMR 4895 the other evening. I loaded 42,43, 43.5, 44. My rifle is a Tikka T-3 308 Win with a 20 inch tube. Bullets were 165 grain Hornady SP to OAL of 2.80.
I don't own a chronograph but here are the accuracy results. This little rifle will really shoot. Results are the average of 2 x 3 shot groups.
42 grains 0.54 inch 43 grains 0.39 inch 43.5 grains 0.585 inch 44 grains 1.10 inch
I let the barrel cool for five minutes between each group. Started with a clean bore and no cleanings afterwards. Just got some Varget and am going to try and work up a load with the same bullet (my favorite hunting bullet).
Anyone have any luck with 180 grain bullets. I took my tikka 308 to the range and using IMR 4895 with 180 grain Hornady SP I ran loads from 40 grains up to 43 grains and accuracy was lacking to say the least. Groups ranged from 1.8 to 2.5 inches which is terrible compared to what it does with 150 and 165 grainers. The funny thing is, my 7600 308 (19 inch barrel) with 41-42 grains of IMR 4895 shoots these 180's in 1.5 inch (3 shots) pretty regularly
I ran onto a good deal on 330 165 gr. Sierra Gameking .308 bullets a while back. I finally got around to trying them out. They don't give up much to a 168 gr. MK, that's for sure! The accuracy load in my FN PBR XP is .5 gr. less with the 165 gr. GK - 46 gr. Varget (46.5 for the 168 MK) I'll be harvesting a couple mulies with this load come November. I've never taken a deer with a Sierra Gameking, mostly Nosler BT and PT bullets. It will be interesting to compare bullet performance with the Nosler BT. Selmer
I also had excellent (1/2 MOA) results with 168 gr. MK 168 gr. Nosler Custom Competition, and 165 gr. BTHP Sierra Gamekings in front of 45 gr. of RL15. The 168 gr. MK OAL with Sinclair comparator is 3.150", 2.800" on the tip.
I worked up with some Varget in my 308 Tikka 20 inch bbl. Used my favorite hunting bullet, the 165 hornady sp and some 150 grain Sierra pro hunters.
45 grains Varget seems to be the sweet spot for my gun with the 165's. With winchester brass, CCI 200 primers, and OAL of 2.805 I averaged 0.76 inches for 3 shots (average of 3 groups). The groups were very consistent.
The 150 grainers did not shoot as well but were the best at 46 grains (same brass, same primers, and OAL) averaging 0.85 inch for 3x3 shot groups.
I found a guy with a chronograph that is going to check the velocity of my IMR 4895 top loads and my varget loads. Will publish as soon as I get the results.
i am getting the impression that there are 'pet loads' that work well for a given cartridge. So if such 'pet loads' generally exist then does it matter whether the loads are used in semi autos or bolt actions?
Even with the same bullet weight and muzzle velocity different powders produce different pressure-time curves. This means a particular powder may not be well suited to the operating cycle of a given semi auto.
For example, if you're going to shoot 168 grain match bullets out of an M1A you need to be looking at 4895 or something pretty close to it. If the powder is much slower than that it will produce excessive port pressure and batter the action.
Lapua Brass 46gr Varget 165 Nosler Ballistic TIp CCI BR2 Primer always shoots sub MOA (.5-.75) and if I was a good shot , it'd shoot like this probably alot more often
Dude...my load exactly! 1/3 MOA is the norm...and I've never seen a better performer on medium sized game.
I get sub half MOA out to 1000 yards (3's at 100) with, 46.8gr RL-15, 155 Berger VLDs, Fed 210M, Lapua brass, jammed 0.015". I see some pressure signs at 47gr, right around 3100 fps (30" barrel). I usually run just shy of 3000 fps with 46.8gr. The same load with the 2155 Sierra Palma (the old one) gets better than 3100 fps with good accuracy jumped 0.020.
The rifle is a Savage Model 12 FTR.
600 yard group that measures 2.4" or rougly 0.38 MOA:
Look forward to seeing your results. I didn't get the 130 TSXs to shoot for me as well as I would like, but I still want to give it another go with TTSXs, playing more with seating depth this time...
This is one of the many threads that has cost me money, I bought a 308 about a week ago and just took it for its first test drive today. 46 grns of Varget and a 150 Nosler B-tip goes into a tiny cluster. RL-15 not so much.
Im limited to how far I can seat the bullet out due to the mag box, anyone got a fix for that? Who makes a longer box?
This is one of the many threads that has cost me money, I bought a 308 about a week ago and just took it for its first test drive today. 46 grns of Varget and a 150 Nosler B-tip goes into a tiny cluster. RL-15 not so much.
Im limited to how far I can seat the bullet out due to the mag box, anyone got a fix for that? Who makes a longer box?
+1 i just ordered a 700 sps stainless in a .308 because of this thread.
cra1948, I would have agreed with you before I met this ruger rsi that I got for christmas last year. I gave up on it then for our extended doe season as I couldn't find anything that would shoot in it. This week I have been trying it out again with some ramshot tac and this looks promising....
Any one running TAC in there 308? I have seen only one mention of it in this thread. Im just starting to run some with 130 TSX and TTSX but would like to hear any feedback from anyone who has used it with any bullet.
I will say that 47 grns with a TTSX shot a nice group but I need to see if it was a fluke or the real deal. I just loaded up some more to shoot this weekend.
Regarding 308 loads, I saw that Federal no longer produces their High Energy (HE) load with the 180 Partition. However, they have replaced it with a new HE load, the 165 Trophy Bonded Tip, and they claim 2880fps. That's smokin out of a 308. Anyone have hand loads running 2850+ with a 165 out of a 308?
My 46.5 gr. of Varget behind a 165 gr. BT or SMK is pushing that mark, but not equaling it, they're hovering right at around 2800 and I sure won't put any more powder in the case!
I've just signed up after reading right the way through this thread, I use a Tikka T3 in 308win and my reloads at the moment stand at:
Hornady 165gr SST 46 Grains of Varget (also known as ar2208) CCI primers Federal Brass
They run 2780 FPS (measured @ 1 meter - 22 1/2" barrel) and they shoot anywhere from 7mm to 15mm Center To Center (1/4" to 1/2") depending on how good I'm shooting that day :P
Remington 700 VLS Floated barrel (stock) 14 oz trigger (reworked stock Remington) Glass & pillar bedded in factory laminate stock Leupold VX-III 4.5-14 x 40 Tac Mil Dot Leupold Bases & Rings (trued)
Load : LC Match Brass (2.015") 42.5 gr IMR 4064 Federal GM210M Primers Sierra 168 gr HPBTM 2.818 OAL (.003" off the lands)
Just a note - Loads will not, Not, NOT!!! go into the box! Gonna have to load them one at a time into the chamber!
Loads chrono'd at 10 ft are consistent at 2845-2850. Never have had a load that would stay within such a small window on the chrono.
All bullets & brass are individually weighed & miked for uniformity & charges are checked on 3 scales (2 counterbalance & 1 digital.) Each loaded round is again weighed & checked for uniformity. It's a pain but with the extra effort I have shrunk my patterns significantly. My best target to date is .766" at 300 yards. That is with a VERY locked in rifle on the bags & no discernable wind. LOTS of work in not only the loads but also in the rifle. It's a little project I dove into about 3 1/2 years ago just to see what I could do with a basically "stock" rifle with nothing more than do-it-yourself home tweaking. Needless to say I've been rather pleased with the results! This rifle will shoot all day with a .300 Jarrett that I have in the safe & a custom .243 that I built a few years back. I just wish it had the energy that the .300 has when it gets there......
I have tried 45.0 grs of TAC under a 150 gr TSX with very good accuracy. I used WLRM (Winchester magnum) primers. I really need to work on the load some more after hunting season, and check velocity. Guessing ~ 2750 fps out of my 20" Sako. A big guess. OAL is 2.80"
Kinda wish I worked up the 130 TTSX instead of the 150 TSX.
Just a note - Loads will not, Not, NOT!!! go into the box! Gonna have to load them one at a time into the chamber!
Are you sure about that OAL? That seems a bit short to not fit the box and be that close to the lands in a factory Rem chamber/throat.
You sir are correct! My fingers are faster than my brain. The correct OAL for that load was 2.848" not 2.818". I polished (for lack of a better term) the throat to get rid of a few slight burrs but honestly do not know how much this affected the length of the chamber. I never have checked what the actual blueprint measurement of that chamber is. Gonna have to check that & compare to see how much difference that there now is. I'll be the first to admit that I am an amateur at best in the world of custom precision gunsmithing but it sure has been fun to try to do one myself.
A good point to be made here is ALWAYS CHECK LOAD INFO BEFORE LOADING YOUR AMMO!!!!! Small mistakes make big problems. Thank you for your attention to detail & calling the shot.
168 Sierra MK / N 140 / 41.5 5-shot groups at 100 meter (109 yds.)
Andre your targets look like my 10 shot groups @ 100 with my savage 308 26" stainless barrel My load I use is IMR 3031 39.5 grains with Hornady 168 amax's and 39.5 grains of IMR 4895 does about the same
41.2 on the left and 41.3 grains of AA2520 with 190 SMK's pushing around 2550 targets were shot at 175 yds with 10 to 15 winds at 48*. Rifle was a Savage 10FCP with 24"barrel 1/10 twist. All targets are five shot groups. Bottom 2 were shots 10-20 and top were 30-40 after a scope adjustment.
LC match brass, WLR or CCI 250, 168 grain match bullet and 43 grains of BL-C(2). This is a military brass match load out of the 26th edition Hodgdon manual.
It's a moderate pressure load, speeds run in the mid 2500s. If the case necks are uniform and the loaded rounds are straight it will show you the accuracy your rifle can deliver.
If your 308 is put together right and you haven't hit the coffee pot too hard before going to the range don't be surprised if your 300 yard groups come in at 1.5" or less with this load.
What are you folks running in your Savage 99s in .308 caliber.
I recently started loading for one. Today 48.0gr. W748/150 Sierra SPT/WLR primers/F-C cases shot well. Previously I tried the Hornady 150 with Varget, IMR4064, and IMR4895. The starting loads shot well, but the groups got worse as the charge weight went up.
I am particularly interested in information on 180-grain bullets and heavier, but this is nearly absent from the thread. More specifically, heavier bullets, with cartridge overall length limited to 2.800 inches.
Has anyone focused on "bulk" 180s soft points, such as offered by Winchester, Remington, and Hornady?
Has anyone attempted to use 220-grain bullets, with or without its round nose ground away to create a short (more or less) 205-grain bullet?
And what about loading data for 20-inch barrels and 24-inch barrels? Does propellant choice make a significant difference because of barrel length? I find that propellant makes essentially no difference in Marlin 1895 Guide Gun and XLR barrel lengths with my 425-grain WFNs.
Do a search here and on Sniper's Hide for R17. Montana Marine has had some pretty amazing results with 200gr bullets and R17 from a .308. Don't see why it wouldn't work with 180s also...
LC match brass, WLR or CCI 250, 168 grain match bullet and 43 grains of BL-C(2). This is a military brass match load out of the 26th edition Hodgdon manual.
It's a moderate pressure load, speeds run in the mid 2500s. If the case necks are uniform and the loaded rounds are straight it will show you the accuracy your rifle can deliver.
If your 308 is put together right and you haven't hit the coffee pot too hard before going to the range don't be surprised if your 300 yard groups come in at 1.5" or less with this load.
I'm right there with you on the slow load accuracy. Shooting a basically stock Rem 700 VLS with LC Match brass, 168gr SMK, BR Primers & 40.0gr IMR 4064. Load clocks at around 2515fps & one holes them at 100. I've shot several 1" groups with this load at 300yds and made a kill on a groundhog at 637. It stays supersonic to about 650. After that you're on your own cause they pretty well fall apart. Very light recoil & super accurate. Tried several different powders at different levels & always come back to this one.
Does anyone have favorite loads pushing 110 grain Sierra HPs at critter splashing velocities? Bought a box recently and feel the need for speed from the LTR.
Does propellant choice make a significant difference because of barrel length?
No.
I'm fairly new to reloading and have a couple different barrel lengths to load for. I was worried about pressures being different and Data I can find doesn't say. So, do I load the same powder and amount for a short as a long barrel? 20" or 24"? I'm loading .308 and 30/30 as well.
150gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Remington Brass Remington 9 1/2 Primers 48gr H380 (This load was made by Chuck Taylor that I read out of a magazine but nonetheless, a very accurate load that usually shoots well out of most rifles chambered in 308.)
DMB and Wink man asked about 4350 for 308. I have no idea how H4350 shoots, but I can tell you that my load for 308 is 43.5 grains of IMR4350.
In the interest of full disclosure - I am NOT shooting clover leafs. But with iron sights and military style semi automatic rifles, mixed brass (including both Win308 and 7.62x51 mm military surplus brass from a half dozen countries , surplus projectiles that vary +/- 2 grains of weight, and the cheapest primers I can find I am getting 6 inch groups at 100 yards from factory rifles. If I shoot a full magazine, every bullet is on a paper plate at 100 yards. I really can�t ask for more than that.
DMB and Wink man asked about 4350 for 308. I have no idea how H4350 shoots, but I can tell you that my load for 308 is 43.5 grains of IMR4350.
In the interest of full disclosure - I am NOT shooting clover leafs. But with iron sights and military style semi automatic rifles, mixed brass (including both Win308 and 7.62x51 mm military surplus brass from a half dozen countries , surplus projectiles that vary +/- 2 grains of weight, and the cheapest primers I can find I am getting 6 inch groups at 100 yards from factory rifles. If I shoot a full magazine, every bullet is on a paper plate at 100 yards. I really can�t ask for more than that.
Not with the mixed components you are using, but if you switched to one brand of brass, bought some decent bullets and possibly primers you could shrink group size significantly. If you would be interested in such a thing?
Here's a 10 shot group. Load data is on the target. 3.070" OAL is measured using a Sinclair bullet comparator. This load has been consistently accurate for me in both Lapua and LC Match brass.
My new favorite (though few tested) reduced recoil load. 130 gr. hornady sp 37gr. H4895 Fed 210 primer Lake City Match brass OAL 2.645" Vel. 2400 fps 5 shot group of 1.25" at 100 yds out of a Kimber montana. I felt that was pretty good considering the wide spreads on velocity (2350-2450 fps). Ft.Lbs of recoil 10.5 ft. lbs. I think my 11 year old will be able to shoot this without hurtn too bad. Trajectory will be dead on at 100yds and -6" at 200. Looks to be a great reduced recoil load also for plinkn at the range
4 shots from M7 that I had the original barrel replaced with a factory takeoff sporter contour and cut to 21". It wasn't behaving quite right before but I opened the barrel channel up a bit more and everything settled down.
I doubt they'll bounce off. I've shot 4 deer, 1 hog and a 'yote with that bullet in the Savage. I need to run the 308 this year, but I think I know what the results will be.
I think somebody asked about IMR 4350 in the .308 Winchester? I was working up a load for hunting feral hogs a few months ago and gave IMR 4350 a try. Too slow for top velocity but it was very accurate in my Savage 10FLP. Right now I'm working with Reloader 15 instead.
Bullet: Nosler 168 gr. Ballistic Tip Powder: IMR 4350 49.5 grs. Primer: CCI-200 Case: Winchester LOAL: 2.895 (2.273 Base to Ogive) ES: 17.13 SD: 5.38 Average Velocity: 2629.58 fps Comments: Magazine allows 2.915 maximum LOAL, this for 0.085 bullet jump.
Dang it guys, I had to go out and buy a 308 hawkeye all weather because of this thread. I am leaning toward varget powder becasue it is $3.00/pound cheaper than RE15. Funny, nobody mentioned that or maybe I just missed that little tid bit. I had my heart set on RE15 too!! I think Varget will do pretty good though because of its insensitivity to temperature. I'll work up to that magic 46 grains that JB talks about with probably a 165 or 150 grain bullet.
Thanks mathman. I'm sure I'll start out around 44 and work up from there. Of course consulting the many load manuals I have at hand. Can't wait to see how accurate it is. I've got my fingers crossed.
Varget gets along particularly well with the CCI 200.
The Federal brass will be thicker, softer and smaller capacity than the others. Be careful with it, a lot of the loads people quote for a 308 were developed in WW brass and will be hot in the Federal. If you're working with a 165/168 grain bullet you'll want to start lower than the 44 grains you mentioned.
The RP will have a bit less capacity than the WW, but not as much less as the FC.
Treat yourself to a Forster or Redding competition type seater die.
Unless the factory molded stock presents a problem you should have that 308 grouping tight with little fuss.
Mathman, thanks for your excellent advice. Looks like you know your stuff. When I get around to shooting my 308, I'll keep you in mind if I run into any problems. Thanks again, BSA
I want to thank everyone who posted here. It has lead to me getting this load, and help me fall back in love with my Arisaka .308 After some tweaking, and comming up with this load 165 gr. Sierra Game King 43 grains of 4064 FC case CCI primer seated to 2.88 This is what I got. I guess I just gave up on it to quick, glad no one took me up on it posted on the classifieds:)
This is a good reduced load for kids: Brass-Winchester Primer-Federal 210 or CCI 200 Powder-Accurate Arms 3100 (46gr) Bullet-Barnes 130gr TTSX or Nosler 125gr Ballistic Tip (Use of a drop tube would come in handy if you have one, as it is a compressed load.)
I am hunting with a Remington 760 BDL in .308. It's very accurate. It groups 5 at 1/2" and under at 100 yards.
The load I settled on is as follows:
Nosler Brass Federal 210 Match Primer Nosler 165 Grain Accubond 45 Grains IMR 4895 Seated 2.810" OAL
In Nosler brass, I had to use a drop tube. I worked up very slow to this charge, but everything from 44.0 grains and above ahot great, and 45 was the most accurate.
I reloaded some of the brass 3 times with no problems so far. Not even a thought it was getting softer or loose pockets.
I use new brass for hunting, but use all my once, twice, etc. brass for sighting in. And out of my first batch of brass, it's holding up well so far.
I read somewhere not too long ago that a few years back, some bad Nosler 308 brass made it onto the market somehow. Lots of people had problems with pockets and uniformity issues.
I'll check out my records... I have it all on paper in my log. I didn't need to sort any of it, they were all consistent. But I do rememeber writing down what the virgin pieces weighed before prepping and firing.
I lucked out on a large lot (500 pieces) for a smoking price... all in the same lot. I'll never use that much however. I am still on that first batch of 50 and will be for a long time to come as this rifle only sees a few shots a year now since load development is done.
The best load I've been able to work up in my 2 308's (Ruger hawkeye and winchester model 70 fwt) with the bullet I want to hunt with (150 horn sp interlock):
47 gr. RE-15 W-W brass CCI 200 primers 150 hornady sp
I'm pretty happy with the results. Thanks again to mathman for steering me in the right direction
Have been running 46 grains of Winchester 748, CCI LR Benchrest Primer, Federal case with a 165 Hornady SST or a Sierra 168 Match King. Velocity for the SST is 2730 and 2710 for the Match King from a 20" barrel. Groups are in the .35 MOA range.
Interesting. All my 700s have deep throats and digest 46 grains of Varget with a variety of 165/168 grain bullets loaded in WW brass.
Wait, I take back the all part. I'm just beginning to shoot an XCR LRT and I've used nothing but a mild, old standard target load so far. It appears to have a min. headspace chamber too. I haven't checked the throat.
I have no issues with 47grs RE15 and 155AMAXs, and 44grs RE15 with the 168s, fwiw. Oh btw, in the varget load the bullets were off the lands about.020".
Les- I've had the same kinds of results with the 150 Horn flat base, just plain scalding accurate in my 308's.
Dober
Ditto that,
Last weekend was able to get out and do a little shooting with a gun I had taken to Ray Lawler with Absolute Accuray. He trued and bedded the action (R-700), and replaced a 7-08ai barrel with a 308 win factory barrel I had picked up here and had him shorten to 23" and recrown. Shot a pretty good group with the 150 Horn FB, tweaked it a little and then shot a 4 shot group right at 0.5" with a warm to hot barrel. 47.5 gr Varget, 2.750" COL, Hornady FL sized brass, CCI BR-2 primer. MV was 2860 fps, think I've found a good deer load for this fall.
Les- I've had the same kinds of results with the 150 Horn flat base, just plain scalding accurate in my 308's.
Dober
Ditto that,
Last weekend was able to get out and do a little shooting with a gun I had taken to Ray Lawler with Absolute Accuray. He trued and bedded the action (R-700), and replaced a 7-08ai barrel with a 308 win factory barrel I had picked up here and had him shorten to 23" and recrown. Shot a pretty good group with the 150 Horn FB, tweaked it a little and then shot a 4 shot group right at 0.5" with a warm to hot barrel. 47.5 gr Varget, 2.750" COL, Hornady FL sized brass, CCI BR-2 primer. MV was 2860 fps, think I've found a good deer load for this fall.
For all we know your batch of Varget could be a bit hotter than mine.
We're supposed to be careful and work up anyway, so due diligence keeps us safe.
I also tried 43.5grs of Varget, that didnt fare too well either, just over 3" @200yds for 5 shots, no wind, cold barrel, well it was cold until I shot that first 5, haha. I wont be trying anymore varget, and this is the 2nd time varget has disappointed me with the 168s, it didnt shoot that well with 168MKs vs RE15(both at 42grs) in my Classic 308, either.
I ran a few across the chronograph today, just looking for pressure/velocity. Most were fired at 200yd steel. The rifle is a 20" Remington 700 SPS-AAC-SD, brass is neck-sized W-W, primer is CCI 200, and all bullets are moly coated. I'm toying with the notion of going to a 2.995" Wyatts mag box, so some loads had a long-ish OAL. Weather was rather warm at 90F+ with steamy humidity.
RL15: 45.5gr with 168 Ballistic Tip. 2.815" OAL. 2,575fps. 46.0gr with 168 Ballistic Tip. 2.965" OAL. 2,600fps.
TAC: 47.0gr with 150 Ballistic Tip. 2.815" OAL. 2,750fps. 47.5gr with 150 Ballistip Tip. 2.955" OAL. 2,775fps.
RL17: 200gr Sierra Gameking BT at 2.955" OAL. 49.0gr 2,515fps 49.5gr 2,530fps 50.0gr 2,560fps 50.5gr 2,596fps (no pressure signs)
It looks like the RL15 and TAC loads are fine, even though I'm over max in several manuals. The moly and long throat contribute to lower pressures. The 200gr Sierra may be a good all-rounder at 2,600fps, but the workup shot about 2-2.5 MOA. I'll need to shoot the 50.5gr load again for accuracy. The 208gr A-Max hit pressure a bit earlier than I would have thought, although it was the end of my range trip and the gun/ammo/chamber were damn hot. Even so, the workup shot a bit over MOA at 200yds, so the rifle may like this bullet.
I just thought I'd throw today's range trip info out there, as there are bound to be a lot of folks working with the long Remington throats. A tight custom barrel, match chamber, shorter throat, and heavier brass would be burning a lot less powder to make those velocities, so be careful and work up.
If you'll save me a search, how much Re15 are you running in the Lapua brass under 150s?
I've worked up to 46.5 grains with 150 gr. flat base Interlocks. The groups are pretty good overall size wise, but I see a little vertical stringing at 200 and 300 yards that I think I can pull in with a couple more tenths. Some folks are finding the goody zone a bit over 47 grains, but that's not in Lapua brass. So I'm creeping up slowly.
Dave,
46gr R15 gave me 2951 fps with 150gr Hornadies from my 22" Krieger. No way I would go higher, but your rifle may be different...
John
Glad I'm not the only one to see high velocities with this combo. Thought it was weird getting 2840 (correction, actual was 2,889 and 2,900 fps!!!!) out of my win model 100 the other day with 45 gr.s of RE15. Knew it was a pretty stiff load for that particular rifle but didn't realize they were sizling out of the barrel like that. Now I need to see what 47 gr. is doing in my bolt guns
John's rifle was throated a good bit shorter than a typical factory 308.
Developed high pressures I'm assuming. The throat on my win model 100 is pretty short too. For whatever reason , "it is what it is". I may reduce the load a bit since it is a semi-auto. .
Here is a summary of an article I copied from a Reloader Mag, many of you may have already seen it, but it has some pretty good information, he was using Varget. By Gary Sciuchetti and was published in the Handloader Magazine # 257. Gary's goal was to establish the most accurate load possible for a 308 winchester, and to find out how much each component affects accuracy and which brands may have the greatest accuracy potential. Each change in components was conducted with 4 five shot shot groups, 4 different rests were built all of which allowed the shooter to position the rifle and stand to one side while firing. Thousands of rounds were fired over a two year period. In the summary Gary listed several findings. One was that in his particular rifle, a Sako, that Federal GM Match ammunition was by far the most accurate. He also stated that changing the "quantity" of powder can alter group sizes up to .75 inch. Different primer brands altered group sizes by .313. Changing case brand altered group size by up to .25 inch. Changing brands and styles of bullets changed group sizes up to 2 inches. Seating depth is critical and a change can alter group size by 3 inches. His bullet data chart showed that , of all 165/168 bullets tested that the Match Bergers, and the VLD followed by the Matchking, Interbond A-Max, were the most accurate tested. In the middle of the group were the Partition, Grand Slam, Interlock SP, at the tail end were the J-36, Weldcore, Interlock BTSP, Barnes and Woodleigh. I hope this is helpful to some it was and is to me.
Here is a summary of an article I copied from a Reloader Mag, many of you may have already seen it, but it has some pretty good information, he was using Varget. By Gary Sciuchetti and was published in the Handloader Magazine # 257. Gary's goal was to establish the most accurate load possible for a 308 winchester, and to find out how much each component affects accuracy and which brands may have the greatest accuracy potential. Each change in components was conducted with 4 five shot shot groups, 4 different rests were built all of which allowed the shooter to position the rifle and stand to one side while firing. Thousands of rounds were fired over a two year period. In the summary Gary listed several findings. One was that in his particular rifle, a Sako, that Federal GM Match ammunition was by far the most accurate. He also stated that changing the "quantity" of powder can alter group sizes up to .75 inch. Different primer brands altered group sizes by .313. Changing case brand altered group size by up to .25 inch. Changing brands and styles of bullets changed group sizes up to 2 inches. Seating depth is critical and a change can alter group size by 3 inches. His bullet data chart showed that , of all 165/168 bullets tested that the Match Bergers, and the VLD followed by the Matchking, Interbond A-Max, were the most accurate tested. In the middle of the group were the Partition, Grand Slam, Interlock SP, at the tail end were the J-36, Weldcore, Interlock BTSP, Barnes and Woodleigh. I hope this is helpful to some it was and is to me.
Good info, but you need to be reminded that each rifle is an individual and one may have a preference towards different components. This includes all that you've mentioned (bullets, seating depth, primers, brass, and powder). One thing you didn't mention is run-out or concentricity which has a huge bearing on accuracy. I think it is funny how you mention hornady interlock btsp as being an inaccurate bullet as many here know that is bs. That further backs up what I was just saying. My 300 wsm regularly shoots hornady interlock btsp into clusters like this: 10 shot group.
I do not think that your comment was "funny". I did not state that the hornady interlock btsp was inaccurate, I was summerizing the data presented. In Gary's article where he showed a chart of bullet accuracy in his testing. In "his" chart the interlock btsp was way to the right of the best. I am also well aware that all rifles are not the same but would also think that similar results may also be found by other testers. I have always thought the bullet was a primary component and the primer a minor one. This article reinforced that for me.
This one may have already shown up here in one form or another:
bulk Winchester brass CCI 200's 165 g Sierra Gameking boat tail 39.5 g IMR 3031 (or 39.0, doesn't matter in my rifle) COL 2.80"
as I understand it this is similar to an old Federal match load that used the 168 g. Sierra match bullet.
if you want top velocity, this load will not give it to you. but it shoots more consistently than anything else i have put through my rifle.
recoil is mild, and it doesn't create much barrel heating (comparatively), so you can do some extended shooting with it. I was really impressed with how well my rifle was grouping these today, the only limiting factor seemed to be the shooter.
mathman, the winchester brass is probably losing a little velocity to the LC brass with that load, eh? I don't have a chronograph, but I can't imagine that this load is beating 2550 fps or so out of the 20" barrel of my rifle.
this is the first 4 shots from a cold/clean bore at 100 yds this morning (low shot is the cold bore shot). 39.5 IMR 3031, old Rem brass, 168 SMK seated to 2.8", CCI 200's.
3 shots at same distance with 44.0 H4895, same rem brass, 150 g Hornady spirepoint seated 2.735" (per hornady manual), cci 200's.
i admit to cheating a little, as the rifle is a remington 700p w/ 14x scope.
I am quite new to reloading but wanted to try it and reload for my Steyr Mannlicher Pro Hunter .308 Win. I went for 150gr Hornady SST with Vihtavouri N140 powder. I put up the small write up on the process.
I used CCI 200 large rifle primers and reused my Sako once fired brass.
The best load in my rifle was 46.4gr with 2.820" overall length. I cannot shoot any better than that so I am very pleased and all this with Lee Classic Loader and a few extra items.
Never understood rifles that "shoot .5moa all day long...... as long as I do my part" and then showing one or two groups nowhere near the aiming point.....
But I digress...
In any case 308's are easy peasy. As has been stated, 45-46gr Varget with a 168gr bullet will do nicely.
The load for these was just dropped and shot. No work up.
First 5...
Second 5...
Last ten and zeroed...
LC brass 168gr AMAX 45gr Varget BR2 primer 2.810 COAL
Last Sunday I did a 100 yard test with three lots of RL15. The rifle was a Kimber LPT fitted with a Leupold VX-3 6.5-20x40LR set to 14x. The target was a half inch dot on a grid background.
Load: FC brass, F210M, 168 CC Nosler at 3.225" length in a Sinclair nut, 2.81" nom. OACL
Powder was dispensed from a Redding BR-30 measure set to throw 42 grains of the reference lot of RL15. The other two lots threw 40.7 and 42.4 grains on the same setting, and that's how they were used.
The first three targets were shot in round robin fashion, load A on target A, load B on target B, ... until fifteen rounds were fired. After the rifle cooled, a fourth target was shot with six rounds. Two of each of the three loads were fired, abc, abc.
I overlaid the four targets with a light behind them, and the resulting composite 21 shot group is 0.92" center to center.
Read too much about 155 Scenars and had to give them a try. First three shots, one hole. There might be something to these things. Didn't have the chrono and was shooting off a rickety old desk and sitting on a folding beach chair. Looking forward to shooting from a solid position with a chrono. I suspect they are zinging along quite well.
im looking to build a .308 and wanna go overboard with it, solid copper 250gr, i remember reading something about a guy who did that but dont recall what or who. anyone got an idea?
Hey Mathman you gotta an accuracy load with ww brass, varget, cci, and 168gr below the 46gr that you can recommend? Curious what you might have come up with at a lower charge, especially in a 20" barrel.
I haven't tried it in my 20" rifles yet, but 42.7 grains of Varget under a 168 gr. AMax in WW brass is consistently below .6 MOA for five shot groups from a 24" 5R MilSpec. That's with thrown charges and bullets seated to fit the magazine.
IIRC, one of the author's constraints was selecting one powder charge to use in all the varieties of brass he tested. From what I've experienced using several different kinds of 308 brass, I believe that's a counterproductive constraint.
Matching FGMM, which I agree is really good ammo, isn't all that hard to do anyway.
Thanks I'll try that. 46gr shoots well but being a max load beats my brass up more then lesser charges in my AR during ejection against the case deflector. I seem to remember 43gr working well, I'll drop it a little more.
Thinking of trying some heavier brass just to see if they don't dent as easily as the winchesters.
I worked up a load with TAC at 46.4 grs with Hornady 150 gr SP with CCI 200's and FC brass for my Marlin xs-7 in 308W it worked well. I started subbing other bullets of the same weight with that charge. 150 gr RP Corelokts,WW 150gr Power Pts, 150 gr Horn BTSP, and some 150 gr Remington Bronze Pt Expanding all held to acceptable accuracy for hunting loads with acceptable pressure signs. It worked in my gun, don't mean it will in yours ,start low and work up is still the best bet. Anybody use bullets coated with moly anymore in the 308? Magnum Man
I run moly in mine. Most rifles that I plan to shoot a good bit or run high speeds will get moly. I looked at my current 168gr/Varget/moly load and I am 0.3gr above the listed 46.0gr max.
280 no I don't have any loading data for TAC and the 168 gr. all my sources show 168 run with Big Game and the other powders everyone else is using. A few years back I bought 4 boxes of 168 gr SMK for $5 a box that had been moly'ed off a bargain table. I need to keep them as accurate as possible at 2650 to match an M3 dial on a Leupold Mk 4 LRT so I came to this thread where many people had allready covered a lot of ground. Magnum Man
Yeah Mathman I think you might have posted you hadn't ran TAC yet somewhere? So I did bother checking with ya
Magnum Man, Ramshots own data has TAC loads up to 190gr SMK. Just not sure if it is worth a chit for it though Seems like most folks like you stick to 150gr with it.
Ruger 280 I checked my data sheets from Ramshot and they were 4.2.2 edn. Clicked into the Ramshot site the other day and updated to 4.5 edn and yeah it had the TAC data out to 190 gr bullets . Thanks for the info. magnum man
gunut308, I've worked with TAC and 150 gr bullets and RL-15 with 168's so far good results. Varget is on the list of powders to try and it looks like I better get some 150 gr B-tips too thanks. My 308 is a XS-7 Marlin that sure seems to shoot real nice.It was $279 - a $20 coupon at Cabelas 2 years ago and with tax it came to $275 and it sure shoots nice groups for a low dollar gun. It looks somewhat strange on the bench with a 10x40 Mk4 LRT Leupold on there that sells for 5x what the gun costs.Pretty is as pretty does though. Lucked out today and found a clean, little used XL-7 in 270 Win got it for 249.09 with tax. Brought it home and put the 6x Burris on it in 5 minutes. I grabbed some loads with H4350 and 150 NBT's , had it zeroed at 50yds in 3 shots. Shot 2 3 shot groups at 50 yds that could both be covered with a dime.At this rate I think I will start peddling some of my more expensive ones. Thanks again for the info. Magnum Man
Heard and read lots of good reports on Marlin. Played with an '06 at a pawn shop the other day, had a very nice trigger. Looked like the Savage accutrigger. Lots of bang for the buck.
I have used IMR 4895 in the 06 for service loads in the 03 and Garand. Holy chit batman, it was like shearing Lincoln logs thru the Uniflow. These days on my high volume stuff I sure like the ball powders.Throwing TAC charges will spoil the hell out of you. magnum Man
mathman, that is true and 1 of the reasons I don't load IMR 4064 much anymore. If I breakdown one of these days and pass the green for a Chargemaster I'd probably use it again, but till then those ball powders are sure user friendly. Magnum man
Federal brass, CCI# 200 primer, 50gr Alliant power pro 2000MR and 165gr SST set .01 off the lands. I got .5 - .75 moa avg and 2962fps avg. out of a 26" barrel.
Lots of good info on this thread. Has anyone tried the 168gr Nosler BT with RL17 yet? I've read about quite a few folks getting good results with RL17 and 180 - 200 grain bullets, but can't find much info on the lighter bullets with that powder.
Also, I see the well proven Varget, 4064 and RL 15 very well represented, but what about the newer stuff like CFE223 and 8208 XBR?
turds trying to sell their sh*t via spambots and yeah don't open them they carry lots of viruses. Magnum Man
Now THAT right THERE was a PUN; thanks for the laugh!
I took my buddy's new Stevens 200 w/ 3-9x40mm pro staff to the range today for the first attempt at load work ups running virgin WW cases, RPLR primers, RL15 & 165 gr SSTs.
Even with the insufferably looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong trigger, 2 of the 45 gr rounds went into one hole! BEAUTIFUL!!
This has been a great thread.
Has anyone used CFE w/ 130s or 165s in the 308 yet?
Math Man- I see some of your targets states "Straightened Loads" can you explain how you go about this. What equipment is there to measure runout concenitry?
turds trying to sell their sh*t via spambots and yeah don't open them they carry lots of viruses. Magnum Man
Now THAT right THERE was a PUN; thanks for the laugh!
I took my buddy's new Stevens 200 w/ 3-9x40mm pro staff to the range today for the first attempt at load work ups running virgin WW cases, RPLR primers, RL15 & 165 gr SSTs.
Even with the insufferably looooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooong trigger, 2 of the 45 gr rounds went into one hole! BEAUTIFUL!!
This has been a great thread.
Has anyone used CFE w/ 130s or 165s in the 308 yet?
I worked up some loads with the 175 SMK's and CFE 223. In cooler weather I had some great success with 47.1 grains, Nosler brass, and Federal 210M primers. This shot way under MOA at 100 yards. The problem was when the temp got up above 90 degrees. I got presure signs sticky bolt and a chronied 2800+fps out of a 20" Savage. I put the CFE up and moved to Varget.
Sorry for the confusion Mathman this was the pic i noticed "Straightened Rounds"
Originally Posted by bsa1917hunter
Originally Posted by Elkmen
Good info, but you need to be reminded that each rifle is an individual and one may have a preference towards different components. This includes all that you've mentioned (bullets, seating depth, primers, brass, and powder). One thing you didn't mention is run-out or concentricity which has a huge bearing on accuracy. I think it is funny how you mention hornady interlock btsp as being an inaccurate bullet as many here know that is bs. That further backs up what I was just saying. My 300 wsm regularly shoots hornady interlock btsp into clusters like this: 10 shot group.
Great thread! I tried 46.5gr RL-15, cci 200, R-P brass, and Barnes ttsx seated at 2.800 Wow definitely made me happy about my wife rifle now. Before I couldn't get that thing to shoot. Just factory ammo.
I always get a chuckle at "What's a good load for X caliber" questions. This now has some 34 pages with lots of 'good loads' but I doubbt any two are the same; there's a message in that!
To anyone out there with a bad shooting Ruger... I bought a Ruger Hawkeye .308 about four years ago and was shocked to find that such a fine looking rifle wouldn't shoot more reliably than a 1.5� group.. I put one of those limb saver barrel de-resonators on it and that didn't help.. I spent many hours and many days reading forums looking for some insight to this problem... Found nothing to help..!!! I tried many different reloads thinking just any time I'll find one that will shoot but finally gave up and went on to other guns for awhile... My LR/AR's all shoot submoa and have an H&R single shot 45-70 that easily shoots submoa with the FTX bullets.. And I figured out a load for a friends 7mm RUM that just shot a .375 group� So now I decided to get this old Hawkeye out and play with it again.. From playing with the AR's I decided to start out by putting a bipod on it to see what that would do. After shooting a few different loads found that the bipod didn't help the groups at all. I noticed that the forearm of the camo plastic stock seemed quite wobbly with the bipod on it and wondered if a plastic stock should be that limber. Then decided to replace the plastic stock with a laminated wooden stock... I left the de-resonator on the barrel but changed it's position from 3/4� from the end of the barrel to about 3/4� from the stock.... OMG.....!!!! Today I shot 4 different load/bullet combinations at 100 yards and three were submoa the 4th might have been if I hadn't pulled the shot... I think I was in shock..!!??!! This rifle has NEVER done anything like this before......!!!
I would of posted the pics of the targets but don't have a place to put them on the web.. These test groups were all fired from previous experimental test bags and the Varget bag only had 2 left.
All brass and primers used was Winchester.. IMR8208 44gr Hornady 160 FTX 4 shots - 3/4� group
H4895 43 gr Hornady 160 FTX 4 shots � 3 were � and pulled one made it 1.5� group
Varget 44 gr Hornady 165 SST 2 shots - .25�
IMR 3031 43.8gr Sierra 150 SBT 3 shots .4375� group
I disagree; I have found that there are rules of thumb that can provide excellent direction when starting out w/ a new rifle.
I have worked with 2 Savage 308s in the past 2 months. One put 2 165 SSTs on top of one another when charged with 45 gr Rl15 in Win brass; the other did the same w/ 165 Interlocks, 44 gr Rl15, and Lake City Match brass.
This thread helped me find great loads for these rifles!
I have found that there are rules of thumb that can provide excellent direction when starting out w/ a new rifle.
For tractable cartridges like the 308 I've found that to be the case too.
In either LC match brass or equally heavy Federal match, I've found 39.5 gr. IMR3031 and a 168 gr. match bullet to be a reference grade load. This is in close to a dozen rifles.
44-45 grs of Varget and 165/168 of choice. Does this in mine! Same 45-grs and 3-different bullets. Like said above hard to say what will work for an individual gun, but I love Varget!
yep, Varget is great. 3031 is also great in my rifles. re-15 also great. 4064 also great. both 4895's work great. I've been doing a whole lot of my .308 shooting with the 3031 load that mathman mentioned, just cause its so accurate and repeatable. its also easy on the brass.
I've been curious about the 180's too. the data in the sierra and hornady manuals lumps it in with the 175-178g match bullets, and theres plenty out there for those. I usually see 43-44 g of Varget suggested for the 175 SMK. no first hand experience with that bullet weight though, I've always been content w 168 because I never shoot at 800-1000 yds.
New to reloading. I have reloading manuals for speer, hornady, nosler, and barnes.
What's up with the hornady manual (8th edition)? There loading data for the 308 win seems to be a good 100fps behind (165 & 180 gr bullets)the other manual's loading data.
I just returned from a long-range precision class in Alabama with Frank Proctor of wayofthegun.us. I shot a borrowed rifle, an older 26" Rem 700 police sniper rifle in .308. I loaded 46 grains of Varget with 168-grain Nosler BTHP's at a measured 2740 fps. Once I free-floated the barrel,five-shot groups at 100 averaged somewhere less than .5 inch, but were mostly a ragged hole. During class, once I established a range card, I could easily hit a 10x12" plate at 710 yards, and broke a clay pigeon at 685. Brass was once-fired Federal GMM with CCI 200 primers and loaded using a Lee collet neck sizing die. I do not have a .308 so I bought the dies a few weeks before the class and, being in a hurry, took the load right out of the Nosler manual, starting at 44.0 grains. Bullet runout was .002 or less. Another officer donated several hundred pieces of brass collected at a recent sniper school, and I got a good deal on 1,000 Noslers from Mid-South. I bought an 8-lb jug of Varget at a local gunstore. I had figured that the .308 would be easy to work with, and I was right. The 175's have a little better BC, but I was extremely satisfied with the 600 rounds I loaded for class and the 50 or so I used in load work-up. Don't know if I'll ever load for the .308 again, but I'd have to admit it was about the highest level of satisfaction with the least amount of effort than any other load work-up I've ever had. I've used Redding bushing dies before, but this was my first try with the cheap Lee collet dies, and I will definitely be buying more in the future.
I just returned from a long-range precision class in Alabama with Frank Proctor of wayofthegun.us. I shot a borrowed rifle, an older 26" Rem 700 police sniper rifle in .308. I loaded 46 grains of Varget with 168-grain Nosler BTHP's at a measured 2740 fps. Once I free-floated the barrel,five-shot groups at 100 averaged somewhere less than .5 inch, but were mostly a ragged hole. During class, once I established a range card, I could easily hit a 10x12" plate at 710 yards, and broke a clay pigeon at 685. Brass was once-fired Federal GMM with CCI 200 primers and loaded using a Lee collet neck sizing die. I do not have a .308 so I bought the dies a few weeks before the class and, being in a hurry, took the load right out of the Nosler manual, starting at 44.0 grains. Bullet runout was .002 or less. Another officer donated several hundred pieces of brass collected at a recent sniper school, and I got a good deal on 1,000 Noslers from Mid-South. I bought an 8-lb jug of Varget at a local gunstore. I had figured that the .308 would be easy to work with, and I was right. The 175's have a little better BC, but I was extremely satisfied with the 600 rounds I loaded for class and the 50 or so I used in load work-up. Don't know if I'll ever load for the .308 again, but I'd have to admit it was about the highest level of satisfaction with the least amount of effort than any other load work-up I've ever had. I've used Redding bushing dies before, but this was my first try with the cheap Lee collet dies, and I will definitely be buying more in the future.
I too have learned that reloading for a Remington 700P in .308 is, for lack of a better word, easy.
My best load right now is: 44grains Varget Lapua Brass 168gr A-Max or SMK (interchangeable with same accuracy) 2.800 COAL Rifle is a Remington 700 LTR 20" barrel 2568 fps if I remember correctly
If I go any higher in powder charge I start seeing pressure signs.
45.5 grains of varget , cci br2 , and a 150 game king shoots very well in my tc venture .loaded at 2.825 it is barely enough to fit the mag but it feeds fine . lapua brass works better for me also .
When buying reloading components, how much/large of quantity do you buy?
For example, do you buy 8lbs of Varget instead of 1lb containers, 210M primers by the 500 or 1,000 instead of 100s?
Also how much brass to buy at a time? Components are a little scarce right now, so I bought 200 round of Laupa 308win brass. How long or should ask how many times can the brass be reloaded?
I found a source for some Varget but only in 1lb quantities.
You need 700 more bullets and five more pounds of Varget to go with that brick of primers. 200 pieces of Lapua brass will sail through that thousand rounds, no problem.
Thank you for the feedback! Today I went and picked up two (1 lb) bottles of varget, both bottles had same lot #.
There was two more 1 lb bottle of Varget but different lot# than what I bought. However, the both match each other but I didn't buy them. Perhaps, I should buy them as well? I'd have to re-work up the load again due to different batch/lot#s.
Next paycheck, I'll pick up some more bullets for the 308win.
I'm starting to debate if it was a mistake own a 223rem rifle. not only is factory ammo difficult to find, but so is reloading components.
I dont have any pictures to prove it, but my Ruger m77, and Remington 700 both like 43 grains of IMR 3031 under a 150 grain seirra spitzer, with a federal 210 primer
This thread, especially the first few posts in this thread, really needs some Rifle, Barrel Length, etc., info added to all the load data and target groupings to be helpful I would think. Even altitude, humidity, temps, etc., ... anything and everything adds to the knowledge base.
BLC2 is an old school ball powder. It will leave more fouling and exhibit more temperature sensitivity than Varget. I've gotten very good accuracy from it with 168 grain bullets loaded in LC Match brass.
I haven't been able to find any of the popular powders for the 308win online.
I've been trying to hit some of the smaller gunshops in my area and not much luck there either.
I did find one shop that has some blc2 so I'm wait to hear some feedback from some of the more experience reloaders here before buying some.
It seems Varget is the powder of choice among 308win, but wondering what are some other good alternative powders, which I've narrowed down to IMR4064 and blc2 mentioned above but open to other suggestions as well.
IMR 4064 is one of my goto powders for the 308. If that's all you can find now you'll be in good shape.
yep ... 4064, R-15, Varget all very good (best?) choices. The BLC2 will definitely work if you can't find anything else right now. I think you'll be able to find whatever you want within a few months.
100-110 gr.308 load recommendationa, please. I read all 38 pages of posts and still looking for load info. My barrel is 1:12 22" long and most shots at 250 yards or less. Any information will be most welcome. CM
Anyone worked up loads wif the SST 125s? Snatched hundred pack cuz they were available. Pretty sure they'll kill anything in Tennessee if I can push them at 3,100+.
That's nice to know as I hang out with some big clawed critters in Cody. They are everywhere and have tracked me after sitting down for lunch up in the rim rock. Creepy. I like 180 Partitions just for that reason. Literally almost got run over by one a few years ago while standing just off of a game trail. The locals laugh at me but them Griz freak me out.
TAC works well with the lighter bullets - 3200fps w a 120 and under 1/2" all day long at 100.
Try 2000MR with a 180...........2800fps easily with a 26"
TAC works well with 155's too, I've been messing around with 155 scenars and getting 2900 and up, no pressure signs, and one ragged hole. Lapua brass, Federal primers, and 45-46 grains.
Yesterday I tried 180 gr partitions with 47 gr of MR2000. Got 2680 fps from a 24" barrel, good accuracy, no pressure signs. I wanted a .308 load for black bear over bait. I think I found it.
Varget and 4064 are non-existent. Has anyone tried 335, or 7828 in .308 loads?
Thanks
RL-15 seems to be findable. Have you tried that? That is my powder of choice for most of my .308 loads. Otherwise, and I know it's not "optimal", but good old 3031 with a 155 will work just fine, too. That could be one of my favorite combos.
I just picked up a Tikka T3 Stainless last month and haven't had much time to work with it. With deer season months away I figured I had plenty of time - then the chance to go on a hog hunt came up (late August) and I had to get busy! I was getting very good accuracy with the Speer 150 gr. HotCor and Varget - but I only had twenty bullets! Then I found out that it's a little hard to find 30 caliber bullets right now (haven't shopped for any in a loooong time!) Luckily, I manage to find some Sierra 150 gr. Pro-Hunters and Nosler 150 gr. Partitions to work with. I wasn't getting the velocity I wanted with Varget (about 2711 fps) so I decided to give IMR-3031 a try (thanks mathman!) IMR-3031 turned out to be just what I was looking for! I'd still prefer to use the Partition bullet but I don't know if I'll have time to work with it. The Sierra's are shooting good!
Sorry about the group picture, had to use my cell phone. Three shots @100 yards.
Bullet: Sierra Pro-Hunter 150 Grain Spitzer Powder: IMR-3031 43.0 grs. (30 April 2013 Lot #1637) Primer: CCI-BR2 Case: Winchester LOAL: 2.750 (2.205 with Stoney Point) Average Velocity: 2799.94 Extreme Spread: 43.25 Standard Deviation: 16.34
The Varget load was not bad... just getting more velocity and better accuracy with IMR-3031.
Bullet: Sierra Pro-Hunter 150 Grain Spitzer Powder: Hodgdon Varget 45.5 grs. (11 November 2012 Lot #5020) Primer: CCI-BR2 Case: Winchester LOAL: 2.750 (2.205 with Stoney Point) Average Velocity: 2711.67 fps Extreme Spread: 48.25 Standard Deviation: 19.51
You ought to be able to work up to at or near 47 g of Varget in the Winchester brass with a 150. Nevertheless, nothing wrong with IMR3031. I've actually been using it with 165's and 168's. Not top velocity, but about the best accuracy I've seen in my rifles.
The Ramshot load guide starts with 165 grain bullets. It should work with 150s, but it will likely be slow. I use Big Game in .22-250, 7-08, and .30-06 with great results.
Some of the target pics of loads that worked well for me dropped off when I "organized" my photo bucket album, so I'm reposting them. ...And I've got another .308 barrel coming for my Stiller, so have a renewed interest.
All loads shown from a 22" Krieger. All OALs include Sinclair "hex nut" bullet comparator.
The numbers listed under charge are from the micrometer settings on my MVA powder measure. The 1.225 is about 45.7gr TAC. OAL includes a Sinclair "hex Nut" bullet comparator. The grid is .1 mil@100m. These are 5 shot groups. I think I'm done with load development for this season.
39.5 of 3031 is extremely accurate with a couple of 168 gr. match type bullets in FC and LC brass. This is in five of five rifles tried.
Up to nine of nine now.
If you've been shooting Federal 168 gr. match ammo and you still have that heavy brass, you owe it to yourself to try 39 or 39.5 gr. of IMR3031 under a 168 in it.
I have just started playing with Power Pro 2000-MR and so far I am impressed. 1/2 grain under max with 150SST's and I am getting 2925fps with good solid sub-MOA out of my Browning X-Bolt.
I will be shooting a long range hunting match with that load in a couple of weeks, looking forward to seeing how consistent it is over 50 rounds.
44.8 to 45.0 H4895 and the 150 TTSX has shot many one holers in three different .308 rifles. Velocity averages about 2830 from 21" barrel. Killed a bull with that load a couple years back.
39.5 of 3031 is extremely accurate with a couple of 168 gr. match type bullets in FC and LC brass. This is in five of five rifles tried.
Up to nine of nine now.
If you've been shooting Federal 168 gr. match ammo and you still have that heavy brass, you owe it to yourself to try 39 or 39.5 gr. of IMR3031 under a 168 in it.
I'm getting ready to try this in some Lapua brass which, if I'm not mistaken, should yield similar results to the fed brass. well ... similar from the standpoint of volume/brass thickness. I expect the lapua brass to last longer.
although to be fair, the federal brass has held up pretty well so far. I'm not pushing it to the gills, though
Yeah I have been really temped to try it as well. What is 3031 like through a powder dropper? 39gr is the starting load on hodgdon site, I am guessing 24xxfps in a 22"?
3031 is a "Lincoln Log" powder, so it's crunchy through a measure. Nevertheless, it produces very good groups for me even with thrown charges.
Hodgdon used WW brass in their tests, so 39.5 grains in a thick FC case is a bit warmer than Hodgdon's data would indicate. It's still an easy going load though.
A while back I came into a quantity of LC match brass, and doing a little research I found the 39.5 gr. 3031 and 168 load was an old classic match combination. I tried it and it shot so well I pretty much quit experimenting.
I use Varget in my .308 loads. I have not had any trouble finding it the last few months and I have plenty on hand.
44.5 gr Varget (Not the fastest, but most accurate) 150 gr Nosler Ballistic Tip Rem Brass Fed 210 Primer C.O.L.- 2.80
My hunting rifle in .308 is a sporterized Mauser 98 in a Butler Creek stock and Leupold 3x9 Vari X II. It will put 3 rds in .60" all day long at 100 yds
Thanks Hondo. I just acquired a 308 win 20" barrel. I just did an ocw test and found 45.4grs is ocw with 168 smk, lapua brass, cci-br2 primers. COAL is 2.850" and .070" off the lands.
I plan to test out some 155's scenars soon. Thanks for sharing
Lapua Brass 46gr Varget 165 Nosler Ballistic TIp CCI BR2 Primer always shoots sub MOA (.5-.75) and if I was a good shot , it'd shoot like this probably alot more often
That's the one! 46 gr Varget with the 165 gr bullet of your choice. I had a 20" youth model Rem. 700 and was able to get 2680-2700 fps with sub MOA groups at 100 yds. I was happy duplicating the ballistics of most 165 gr factory rounds with that accuracy. The bullets I used were either Hornady regular Interlocks or SST's.
I ran some 190 grain LR Accubonds in my new to me .308 MR with 22" tube this weekend. All loads were at 2.835" to fit the mag. Ran 10 shot ladders with 0.5 grain increments at 300 yards to look for nodes as well as pressure/velocity. I wanted to get to 2,600. I can say that with a 6.5 pound rig all up shooting max 190 grain loads, recoil does get your attention after a bit...grin...
RL-17 - topped out at 2,550 or so. Accuracy was bad, all over map.
RL - 15 -topped out at about the same velocity as RL-17. Accuracy was better. Didn't get to the high node, low node was at 2,450 to 2,500, too slow.
Big Game - topped out at 2,575 or so. Accuracy was so, so. Likely will not pursue further.
TAC - topped out at 2,625 or so when bolt lift started getting a bit heavier. Accuracy was great. Hit high nodes between 2,575 and 2,625. 4 shot group with a 1.5 powder charge range (range may be higher but hit pressure) went into a bit over 3 inches at 300 yards. I am going to play with charges and seating depths but I think there is a good load in here in the 2,600 range -
I've been loading the other direction with 168 grain Nosler match bullets over IMR 3031 and 4064. Basically I'm going for approximate 300 Savage ballistics with good precision.
Yesterday my five shot, 200 yard groups were .42, .57, .64, and .68 MOA. Not too bad considering the route I took. I just used Nosler's accuracy loads for 300 Savage and put them up in some heavy Federal 308 brass.
My post maybe isn't specifically for "good .308 loads" but I thought maybe .308 connoisseurs may like some real world feedback on some potential "good .308 loads" with some interesting velocity/powder combos....grin...
I've been loading the other direction with 168 grain Nosler match bullets over IMR 3031 and 4064. Basically I'm going for approximate 300 Savage ballistics with good precision.
Yesterday my five shot, 200 yard groups were .42, .57, .64, and .68 MOA. Not too bad considering the route I took. I just used Nosler's accuracy loads for 300 Savage and put them up in some heavy Federal 308 brass.
how many reloads are you getting out of the federal brass? mine seems to be holding up fine, and it makes really nice target loads with the Sierra 168's, but .... I've heard bad stories about its longevity ...
I used to complain about s-o-f-t FC brass too. But over the last two or three years it has been very good stuff. Full power loads with 175 SMK bullets don't seem to open up the pockets.
I ran some 190 grain LR Accubonds in my new to me .308 MR with 22" tube this weekend. All loads were at 2.835" to fit the mag. Ran 10 shot ladders with 0.5 grain increments at 300 yards to look for nodes as well as pressure/velocity. I wanted to get to 2,600. I can say that with a 6.5 pound rig all up shooting max 190 grain loads, recoil does get your attention after a bit...grin...
RL-17 - topped out at 2,550 or so. Accuracy was bad, all over map.
RL - 15 -topped out at about the same velocity as RL-17. Accuracy was better. Didn't get to the high node, low node was at 2,450 to 2,500, too slow.
Big Game - topped out at 2,575 or so. Accuracy was so, so. Likely will not pursue further.
TAC - topped out at 2,625 or so when bolt lift started getting a bit heavier. Accuracy was great. Hit high nodes between 2,575 and 2,625. 4 shot group with a 1.5 powder charge range (range may be higher but hit pressure) went into a bit over 3 inches at 300 yards. I am going to play with charges and seating depths but I think there is a good load in here in the 2,600 range -
PS - I can provide charges if anyone interested.
The TAC load that showed promise during the ladder fell apart at 400 yards.
6 to 10" groups...back to drawing board and I retract my good .308 load above...grin...
Maybe you folks could give me some advice. My b-in-law and I have several rifles of various brands (Rem,Ruger,Win,Sav,Wby Van, etc.)in standard big game calibers. We have been able to tweak loads and get good consistent 1 minute accuracy out just about all of them. B-in-law bought a Mod.700 26" heavy barrel .308 that will shoot a 2" 3 shot group at 200 yards only occasionally on its best days. Usually much worse. The magazine won't handle much over a 2.815 COAL round. To get a Nosler 150 BT to touch the rifling takes a COAL of 3.000. Is this acceptable? Can this rifle be expected to be accurate if the projectile has to almost jump out of the case to engage the rifling? By the way, the Nosler BT is its most accurate hunting bullet, 168 MK maybe a little better.
I would check the bedding first. There should be enough clearance between barrel and stock for a business card to pass freely. Other things to try would be checking the rings and bases to be sure a screw or two isn't loose, and then check the action screws. I usually shoot Savage rifles and they are famous for needing a thread or so taken off the screws to keep them from bottoming out. Also the scope could be part of the problem. If possible substitute a known good scope and try again. And check to be sure the recoil plug is not bottoming out.
Good stuff. In addition, make sure the mag box is not binding. With the floor plate down, you should be able to reach in with your fingers and move the mag box a little. There should be a little float. If not, it is likely the box is a little too tall, causing the action to flex around it. Make sure the scope base screws are not too long thus pushing on the barrel shank.
I shoot several heavy barrel 700 Remingtons in 308 Winchester. With 168 grain Sierra Match Kings or Nosler Custom Competitions set to magazine length, they're jumping roughly 1/8" to the lands. Nevertheless, 2" five shot groups at 300 yards are common.
So no, jumping them isn't necessarily going to be a cause of inaccuracy.
I tend not to believe Speer's bc figures. For example, the one you're asking about is supposed to have a higher bc than a 175 grain Berger VLD. Suuuuure it does.
I'm with Mathman on this. There is no way a 168gr BTHP Match, from anyone, is going to have a BC that approaches that of the Berger 185gr VLD. Not happening. Yet that is what Speer is claiming�
45gr R15 behind 155gr Bullets seems to be a good accuracy node in my rifle. Two different bullets, two different cases, two different primers but the same powder charge produce great accuracy for me. These are 10 shot groups.
If you want a really easy shooting practice load, try close to 40 grains of IMR 4064 under a 168. Maybe a couple of tenths less in your shorter throated rifles would be better.
Out of my 5R Milspec I've put twenty into .85" at 100 yards with thrown charges. It's gone .52 MOA at 300 yards for seven shots as well.
I just got some hornady cases and 165 grain interlock boat tails. Are these bullets a good multi purpose deer, bear, and slightly longer range target bullet?
I would start with Varget. Somewhere between 44.5 and 46.0 grains should land you in a sweet spot. RL 15 is also very popular and for good reason. At one time 2520 was widely used by the bench rest crowd in .308, but I have found too much lot to lot variation. Hopefully now that Western Powders has taken over the Accurate line, the will have better consistency.
I love the Plain Jane Hornady bullets in .308 and .30-06. I prefer the 150s for deer in .3008 and prefer the 165s in the '06. My brother preferred the 165s in his .308. He said the did not ruin as much meat as the 150s.
I just started working with the Hornady 165 gr. BTSP today. A little slow but accurate. I want to use a 165 gr. bullet on my next hog hunt but those Sierra 150 gr. Pro-Hunters are sweet!
Bullet: Hornady 165 gr. BTSP Powder: Alliant Reloader 15 43.5 grs. Primer: Federal 210M Case: Winchester LOAL: 2.800 (2.239 Base to Ogive with Stoney Point for 0.033 jump) Average Velocity: 2531.05 fps Extreme Spread: 25.87 Standard Deviation: 13.63
165 grain nosler solid base lead tip hornady cases Winchester primers 46 grains varget
shot about .55 out of my skinny barreled Remington 700 adl. I think that I saw a few other people using a similar load here. Is this load really common?
45gr R15 behind 155gr Bullets seems to be a good accuracy node in my rifle. Two different bullets, two different cases, two different primers but the same powder charge produce great accuracy for me. These are 10 shot groups.
John
Here's a follow up on the 155gr Scenar load shown above. Shot these on Friday.
Finalized some R&D for my upcoming muley hunt in November. Using 150 Nosler BT's & Accubonds. Settled on 47.5 gr W-748. Tried 4064 and 4895, but W-748 won (could not find RL-15 unfortunately). Cherry picked 3 rounds with 1 thou bullet runout and put 3 NBT's into 1.30" @ 300 yds last nite. Ruger M-77 Mk-II, 22" Pac-Nor 10" twist 3-groove stainless match. Using Bushy 10x40 for load development, but will switcharoo to Leupy 6x42 w/ M-1 elev turret for the hunt.
I have been shooting the Barnes TTSX 130 grain over 4895 in my .308 and really liked this combination. Found some Barnes TTSX 110's and decided to give them a try.
48 grains of 4895, Barnes TTSX 110, CCI Large Rifle BR primers. Average velocity was 3095 fps. No signs of pressure. I think I will try this combo for deer hunting this year.
Hey guys I'm looking for a load for the 168 grain ballistic tip that will shoot half an inch or better from a sporter weight rifle and still shoot between 2600 and 2800 fps. Gun likes hornady brass and Winchester primers. Whats your best pic for the powder.
I've had good results with 168 gr BT with RE-15. (back when I could not get Varget) My rifles liked it better than Varget. Around 44.5 or 45 gr should be pretty close. I have not chronoed it.
Using a Savage 16 .308 weather warrior with no alterations I get excellent sub MOA groups with IMR 4064 X 44grains,150 grain Hornady SST,Federal match primers, Hornady brass, loaded to .020 of the lands. This load is not the fastest(2650-2700 fps depending on temp)but deadly accurate and for some reason works very well on large Russian boar. There are some loads that are just deadly. This is one and I don't know why it works better than others. I use another relatiely slow load that works well on large hogs, a .270 150 grain Win power point at about 2730fps.Speed is not everything, but I admit it helps sometimes.
45gr R15 behind 155gr Bullets seems to be a good accuracy node in my rifle. Two different bullets, two different cases, two different primers but the same powder charge produce great accuracy for me. These are 10 shot groups.
John
Here's a follow up on the 155gr Scenar load shown above. Shot these on Friday.
400m, 8" plate, .242 MOA
500m, 8" plate, .309 MOA
Here's basically same load. 1/2 grain less though. 45gr in LCNM brass was showing some pressure signs. The lone shot is a 25 yard sighter after switching scopes and barrels. I had the .260 barrel on and switched back to the .308 barrel. After the 25 yard sighter, I moved back to 100 and fired these five from the prone off a bipod from the bed of my truck. It measured .358".
I'm looking for a good powder choice for my newly acquired 300 savage. Not that the charge would be the same, but I would imagine the 308 and the 300 savage should like the same kinds of powder. Would I be assuming correctly?
I'm looking for a good powder choice for my newly acquired 300 savage. Not that the charge would be the same, but I would imagine the 308 and the 300 savage should like the same kinds of powder. Would I be assuming correctly?
I haven't done much with 125 grain bullets, but with the other two I know a wide variety of powders will work nicely.
IMR 3031, 4895, 4064, H4895, RL15, N140 ... mid range stuff. Very similar to the 308, as you suspected. But since you're loading for a '99 you might want to stay away from powders that need full 308 type pressure to do well.
125 NBT and 45grs of Varget. 165/168 gr bullets and 44-45 grs of Varget. I use Fed210 and WLR primers. Been having great luck with 41.8 grs of IMR4064 and 175 grainers lately.
Anybody have a good starting point for RL15 under a Hornady 165gr Interlock BTSP? I have CCIBR2 primers, RP and Fed brass. This will be strictly for Whitetail hunting. Thanks.
What kind of velocity can one expect with 165gr bullets out of 22" 308Win? From reading past pages it seems powder charges around 44-45gr of power.
Powders on hand: Varget and H-4895. Brass: Lapua Primers: Fed210M
2725-2750 is what mine average in 20-22" barrels. Different bullets give different speeds such as 168 HAMAX vs 168 NBT, etc... This is with Varget, have not tried H4895 (Milspec load)
Just because I had some components to use, I loaded some 165 gr ballistic tips with 42 gr of IMR-4064 in FC brass, which has less capacity than W-W. Today it shot a 1/2" group from my Savage 11.
I've had good results from 45gr R15 behind 155gr Scenars. My results from pay 13 of this thread:
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
Originally Posted by Hondo64d
45gr R15 behind 155gr Bullets seems to be a good accuracy node in my rifle. Two different bullets, two different cases, two different primers but the same powder charge produce great accuracy for me. These are 10 shot groups.
John
Here's a follow up on the 155gr Scenar load shown above. Shot these on Friday.
40 grains of IMR3031 under a Hornady 165 grain Spitz BT in Rem Brass with CCI 200 primers gave 2530 fps and 5 shot group right at 1" at 100 yds in Savage 99 EG 308Win.
51 grains of CFE223 under a 150 Hornady flat based Interlock produced 1/2-3/4 minute from my Ruger American at 200 yards. It clocked 2934 fps. COAL 2.750 (book)My rifle likes these much better than the 165s and it does not like Partitions at all.
79,,, Between my wife with her 300 Savage and me with 30 gibbs we've killed a ton of moose and probably 15 brown bears with the 165 Hornady. I've found it performs like a 180 except a trifle faster.
How good is Lake City Long Range brass? Use is for hunting applications, not competition shooting. Any idea as how many reloads one can get out of this brass?
The number of reloads depends heavily on the sizing regimen you use.
Suppose you're not overworking the case by sizing the body down to like new dimensions every firing. Then the effects of fatigue fall mainly on the case neck.
LC brass is usually on the thick side. Loaded rounds typically measure .337" on the neck OD. So a sized neck only needs reducing to .335" or so. If you're using a collet or bushing type size die this is easily achieved.
Now let's suppose you're using an off the shelf Redding FL die like one I have. In order to accommodate all types/thicknesses of brass it has a neck section a good bit smaller than .335". This particular die is on the small side with sized but not expanded brass coming out of the die with .328" necks. So if it's expanded via expander ball or other means to the desired .335" before seating a bullet that's .014" (.007" down, .007" up) of unnecessary cold working the neck material undergoes every loading cycle.
Yesterday I put my .308 barrel on my rifle to play with it for a while. It's a Bartlein 2B contour finished at 24" and I had not yet shot it. I had a bunch of ammo developed for another rifle loaded up. It is shown in previous pages of this thread and had shot extremely well in my Stiller Predator with a #5 Brux. Anyway, the rounds I put out for the sighters looked good, so when I made the scope adjustment I went ahead and shot a 10 shot group which is what you see on the left side of the target. Ten shots in one ragged hole with a load not even developed for this rifle. I LOVE .308s. NOTHING is easier to get to shoot well.
The load is 45r R15 behind the 155r Lapua Scenar in Lapua brass. I didn't chrono it out of this barrel, but out of the 24" Brux I developed that load for it averaged 2865fps.
Here are a couple loads my new Savage Lightweight Hunter liked. Velocities were from a 20" barrel. These are the first and only two loads I've tried so far in this rifle. I think I'm going to like this one.
I have been using 42.5 grains of 4064 with a rem 9.5 primer and 180 Nosler Partition in my little Win. 70 Classic Compact short action for years.
I like this load because I can buy Partition 2nds on sale for about $13.50 for 50 bullets.
This isn't a super fast load. It isn't a super accurate load. But I don't care. It has taken a considerable number of whitetail bucks at under 200 yards - most with 1 shot and flop dead right there.
I need advice regarding a load for my m70 ew in 308 win in preparation for an elk hunt in November. I don't reload anymore but have a bud who will do the task. I have some new nosler brass and a fresh box of 165gr accubonds. My bud will use WLR primers and RL15 (he claims it has been the most accurate in his 308s).
So, what are your recommendations for: 1. charge weights 2. OAL/COL
My daughter has had great results with her 308 Vanguard and 45.0 gr IMR 4895 behind a 130 Barnes TTSX. Gives her 2947 fps on the chrono. Everything she has hit so far was one shot and done.
A bullet to consider for 308 is the black tip Blackout 110 copper bullet. It can be launched at moderate velocities 2400-2700 fps and it is low recoil and devastating on critters.
The 130TTSX is a very effective bullet in the 308win, as it can make some pretty good speeds. My father had very good success with it on whitetails at 2,900fps+ from a 20" barrel.
After reading all this load discussion I decided to try Varget in my 308. So, I collected some Lapua cases, Varget & 155 Scenars. Loaded 48.5 grains & managed to seat the Scenar's enough for them to stay in the case. First three shots went into the same hole measuring .360 @ 2890 fps average.
Of course, it relegated my rifle to a two shooter. But, I don't care. One shot is all you need anyway.
Here are a couple loads my new Savage Lightweight Hunter liked. Velocities were from a 20" barrel. These are the first and only two loads I've tried so far in this rifle. I think I'm going to like this one.
If you want more speed you can probably hit another node right at Hodgdon's 43.5 grain max load. However I don't load them wide open most of the time either.
I never ever thought I would own a wimpy 308, but it kills just as well as the magnum cannons I own. Cheaper, easier on you, just plain fun. Should have had one years ago!!
WW brass, WW Mag Primer, BArnes 130 gr TTSX and 48 gr Varget! Very Impressed! Lightweight SAKO action pencil barrel single shot: 3/4 inch group at 100, Little windy and barrel warm due to load evaluation.
I'll try to chrono tomorrow but according to Barnes' site I should be right at 3100 fps!
So much for the reloading manuals and web sites! 5 shots, 2960 average speed, 24 (23.5) in barrel.
I'm hoping to borrow a friend's shorter barrel 308 and see what his rifle gets: I have a 243 and shot it against a shorter barrel - mine's 21; her's is 18.5. Her's shot faster! Not alot, maybe 50-60 fps IIRC.
I can tell you TAC isn't the one you want for this application. 2500 with a 125 is very mild in a 308 and TAC generally runs much better at full throttle.
Varget isn't ideal either, with your desired result coming in 550 fps below the starting load.
What is your preferred bullet weight in the 308win?
I was looking at the Nosler reloading manual which gives you an asterisk next to most accurate load for that powder. I notice with the 150gr loads it seems around 2700fps is the most accurate which is often midpoint of velocity window. Whereas if I look at 165gr loads it seems 2700fps is the most accurate which is often at the top end of load data.
So does it make more sense to load 165gr bullet weight over 150gr bullet weight?
I hunt whitetails but also interested in some hog hunting which I found hunting reserve down in Tennessee said shots average around 60 yards.
I'd say not to worry about that. Many factors can come into play in one load edging out another for accuracy in a given test barrel. 150/155/165/168 all have given me good success in various .308 hunting rifles with standard cup/core bullets.
What is your preferred bullet weight in the 308win?
I was looking at the Nosler reloading manual which gives you an asterisk next to most accurate load for that powder. I notice with the 150gr loads it seems around 2700fps is the most accurate which is often midpoint of velocity window. Whereas if I look at 165gr loads it seems 2700fps is the most accurate which is often at the top end of load data.
So does it make more sense to load 165gr bullet weight over 150gr bullet weight?
I hunt whitetails but also interested in some hog hunting which I found hunting reserve down in Tennessee said shots average around 60 yards.
If you put them together straight I assure you there is good accuracy to be had well above 2700 with a 150 if a 150 is what you want to use. I have a 22" barreled 308 that tops out around 2650 with a 165, but it's cruising well above 2800 with 150's and several powders.
Hodgdon's top load of H4895 under a 150 grain Ballistic Tip has been a winner for me.
Thank you, JPro. Just some of my rambling thoughts as a relative newbie to reload. I've only started reload since April of this year but only for pistol/handgun cartridges. I haven't dabble into rifle cartridges yet. I have 223 rem and 308 win that I want to reload for.
Thank you, mathman. It seems that the 308 win can struggle to get those 165 gr bullets to 2700? Perhaps the 150 gr bullets is better choice for the 308 win's case capacity?
Thank you, JPro. Just some of my rambling thoughts as a relative newbie to reload. I've only started reload since April of this year but only for pistol/handgun cartridges. I haven't dabble into rifle cartridges yet. I have 223 rem and 308 win that I want to reload for.
Thank you, mathman. It seems that the 308 win can struggle to get those 165 gr bullets to 2700? Perhaps the 150 gr bullets is better choice for the 308 win's case capacity?
That varies with the barrel and chamber. I load for two 24" barreled Kimbers where 46 grans of Varget will post nearly 2750 with a 165.
2,700 can be done in a 22" sporter with the right load. I've noted several here who got there with RL15 or Varget.
And I'm not sure what powder Nosler is loading in their 165 NBT ammo, but it clocked 2,800 for me in a 20" factory 700. Fusions of the same weight made 2,600 on the same range session. Fusions shot better though.....
A 130 gr. Hornady at 3,000+ fps will blow thru a WT chest, leaving lots of destruction, good exit and entrance wounds, mostly DRT.
For Southern WT's, you don't really need heavier bullets, IMO.
For something different, check out Cutting Edge bullets..They're monos but act somewhat like a Partition, 6 petals flying 360*, the base puching on thru.
Here's the effect on a chest shot hog. See how the spine got messed up while not in the line of flight. 80# hog DRT. Chest shot hogs often run. I chest this one on purpose just to see how that bullet would work.
Some say CEB Raptors aren't good in thick areas, will come apart when hitting a twig, etc. Used in open areas they seem to work pretty well.
thank you for your post. Just for reference I looked at Nosler's website, they're using 24" Lilja barrel with 1:10 twist, for 165gr bullets with Varget max charge of 46 grain giving 2820 fps, with an asterik next to Varget's load of 44 gr for 2758fps.
Jpro, wow! 165gr at 2800fps from 20" barrel! impressive. I see from Nosler's website that RL15 gives top velocity, but heard it's temperature sensitive thus Varget is a little better in that regards.
Rifle powders on hand are H4895 and Varget. Those two powders should work in both my 223rem and 308win. For logistics sake, I tried to keep powders that can be used in both cartridges. At least my viewpoint that I'm using a newbie. Also helps keep my cost down by being able to use powders in both cartridges.
Just for grins I tried my 155 Scenars pushed by 45gn of Varget in a comparison of cold (sat out all night at 5*) and warm (~65*). No difference, all right around 2900. Hard to beat that for a hunting load.
Just for grins I tried my 155 Scenars pushed by 45gn of Varget in a comparison of cold (sat out all night at 5*) and warm (~65*). No difference, all right around 2900. Hard to beat that for a hunting load.
Just for grins I tried my 155 Scenars pushed by 45gn of Varget in a comparison of cold (sat out all night at 5*) and warm (~65*). No difference, all right around 2900. Hard to beat that for a hunting load.
Was the gun cold too?
Yes, sat out all night. Two cold shots were 2906, 2896. Two warm shots were 2901, 2901.
I can’t remember to be honest. Much more freebore than my previous .308s but no tight neck or anything like that. The 185gr kissing the lands is still short enough to function through my AICS mags. BTO is 2.190”. Seating depth test next.
Talked to James at Northland Shooters Supply. I got the SAAMI spec chamber, which has .090” freebore.
Ran a seating depth test. It likes the 185gr Classic Hunters at .030” off the lands. At that depth, it put five into .304”. Left to right; .010” off, .020” off and .030” off. The load in the post above was .010” into the lands.
Thanks that is good to know. I have 155 Palma load of Varget at 45.5. I Need to set the chrono up. The other load was 42gr of AR-comp
Originally Posted by prm
Just for grins I tried my 155 Scenars pushed by 45gn of Varget in a comparison of cold (sat out all night at 5*) and warm (~65*). No difference, all right around 2900. Hard to beat that for a hunting load.
Man I have just read through all 26 pages of this thread since about 7 this morn. I'm trying to get an idea of a starting point for my build, but the one thing that was missing from just about all the posts was twist rate. Each member gave specific information. Bullet weight, powder of choice, grains, brass, primer type, brand of bullet, speeds, but the one thing I was looking for was twist rate. I have been a Browning abolt 7mm guy all my life, but with the recent purchases of .308's that my sons have, I decided to get one. Rem 700 action with #4 shilen contour at 18" threaded for brake of suppressor. All 3 of the .308's are Rem 700's in 1:10 twist. It just would have been nice to see 1:10, 1:11.25, 1:12 depending on your "recipe", if that will make a difference. I know some heavier loads will shoot better in 1:10 vs 1:12, but what do I know. I'm just a NEWB who read 26 pages worth of information that I 'm just learning about.
Jr. You're on the right track, reading this one should gain some knowledge.
I think, I will try the 130 grain Barnes T-TSX bullets this year. I think they would work well on most animals.
That bullet worked well for me in a pinch with a grizzly a few nights ago! Loaded 51 grs of TAC out of my Ruger American stainless compact with 18" barrel. Broke one shoulder, destroyed the vitals and exited near the off-sides' kidney. The same bullet but with a slower speed with varget worked wonderfully for my wife on a caribou last Fall.
AKMTN, That's great timing I saw your write up and was going to ask what your load is, not that it'd make a difference, just curious who else is shooting 130's and what load.
HC27, My .308 load with 130 TTSX consists of W/W cases, Fed 210M primer, 44.6 grains of AR Benchmark 2 ( Hodgdons Benchmark over there ), which gives me 2969 f/s in a 22.4 inch bbl, and sub MOA accuracy. I've shot 4 Fallow deer and several other smaller animals with them so far. Every one has given a complete pass through but left the petals inside or in the skin on exit side. They are instant killers with high shoulder shots, but animals that were double lunged ran quite a way. I prefer cup & core, Woodleighs partitions or accubonds. Cheers, Jack
My Remington Model 7 is a 20” 1:10 twist barrel. My best load for it is nothing crazy; 150gr Interlock with 46.0gr of Varget. Hornady Brass, CCI #200 primer. Shoots well under 1 MOA even with full length sized brass, I bet I could shrink groups further if I neck sized and played with seating depths, but without that it shoots more than good enough for me. Right now I’m just seating to the cannelure.
I seen Laupa's 308 win palma brass with small primer. What decapping/resizer die would you guys recommend to use with this brass? Thanks for the feedback!
Regarding twist rate, my philosophy is to err to the fast side. With modern bullets, I don't believe that too fast of a twist hurts accuracy much if any, but too slow given the bullet length, speed and atmospheric condition will hurt accuracy.
I have read this thread from front to back several times and referenced it many more, THANK YOU to all that have been so helpful and especially to mathman for being so free with his knowledge. You guys are what make this place so great.
I have a couple thousand WLRM and wanted to use them for several .308’s and .243’s should I use them in the.308 or just load them all in my .338wm.?......granted that would be a lifetime supply but I do have hundreds and hundreds of once fired .338wm? Varget and RL15 are the powders at hand for the.308 (I just found a pound of IMR4064 and IMR4831 too). Thanks for such an informative thread. 👍
That bullet worked well for me in a pinch with a grizzly a few nights ago! Loaded 51 grs of TAC out of my Ruger American stainless compact with 18" barrel. Broke one shoulder, destroyed the vitals and exited near the off-sides' kidney. The same bullet but with a slower speed with varget worked wonderfully for my wife on a caribou last Fall.
This intrigues me. You killed a grizzly with a 130 TTSX from a .308? What size bear, and what were the circumstances? I am curious about how it went down, how fast the bear was stopped, etc? Gotta run what ya brung sometimes, that’s just a little smaller than most folks would be comfortable with, so I am curious how it worked.
I have two very good loads in my CZ550 with 165 Interlocks and 168 Amax on video Varget gave me best results with both bullets both groups very tight clovers, I only have those kind of groups with my 22-250 and this 308 I wish my 270 would shoot like that
Found a good load recently for my 22" barreled Ruger M77 Hawekeye Predator. (These rifles have a mag box around 2.9"). It works well with Leupold's Long Range Duplex and B&C reticles, with the 300/400yd aiming points being "on" with a zero around 215yds.
150gr Nosler Accubond at 2.875" OAL Lapua case 45.3gr H4895 (I bought a jug when Varget was Unobtanium) CCI 200 2,875fps at 50 degrees Fahrenheit
The 150 Ballistic Tip shoots much the same, and to the same point of impact at 200/300/400yds, using the same seater setting, although OAL is a touch longer due to nose profile with my batch of bullets. The 150 E-tip made practically the same velocity, which is interesting, but did not shoot well enough for my tastes.
Hodgdon load data used 45.5gr with a W-W case for a 150 NBT, while I am using the thicker Lapua case, but I'm also using a longer OAL than their data. They made 2,870fps from a 24" barrel, so the data is fairly "real world".
You're working from a good baseline. I've used the Hodgdon load as stated for a number of years, seeing something like 2825-2850 fps from my old 22" LVSF barrel. That load has always been a good shooter and handles deer quite nicely.
I’m going to try 125 gr. Nosler BT’s and Accubonds in my .308 I have 4895, Reloader 15, Bcl-2. Do any of you guys have success with any of these combos?
These two loads work very well in my two 308's.168gr Nosler BT,Winchester brass and Winchester Magnum Primers.44.5grs of TAC(2807fps) or 46.5grs of Accurate 4064 (2812fps)
That bullet worked well for me in a pinch with a grizzly a few nights ago! Loaded 51 grs of TAC out of my Ruger American stainless compact with 18" barrel. Broke one shoulder, destroyed the vitals and exited near the off-sides' kidney. The same bullet but with a slower speed with varget worked wonderfully for my wife on a caribou last Fall.
This intrigues me. You killed a grizzly with a 130 TTSX from a .308? What size bear, and what were the circumstances? I am curious about how it went down, how fast the bear was stopped, etc? Gotta run what ya brung sometimes, that’s just a little smaller than most folks would be comfortable with, so I am curious how it worked.
It was out of a 30-06, but not running any faster than a 308 can push them, around 3,100 fps. I've killed whitetail, black bear, caribou, moose and grizzly with the 130 TSX. Probably the best killing bullet I've used. The grizzly was just a 3 year old, and ran about 30 yards after the shot, but its blood trail looked like someone pitched a 5 gallon bucket of red paint on the brush. Probably the same result if he was twice as big. Double lung shot at about 40 yards.
Found a good load recently for my 22" barreled Ruger M77 Hawekeye Predator.
150gr Nosler Accubond at 2.875" OAL Lapua case 45.3gr H4895 CCI 200 2,875fps at 50 degrees Fahrenheit
Hodgdon load data used 45.5gr with a W-W case for a 150 NBT, while I am using the thicker Lapua case, but I'm also using a longer OAL than their data. They made 2,870fps from a 24" barrel, so the data is fairly "real world".
Originally Posted by mathman
You're working from a good baseline. I've used the Hodgdon load as stated for a number of years, seeing something like 2825-2850 fps from my old 22" LVSF barrel. That load has always been a good shooter and handles deer quite nicely.
Pretty much using the same load from Hodgdon. Settled on H-4895 because I found an 8lb jug during this shortage, and it will work in 243 win, 257 Roberts, and 308 win......
I’m going to try 125 gr. Nosler BT’s and Accubonds in my .308 I have 4895, Reloader 15, Bcl-2. Do any of you guys have success with any of these combos?
Sometimes I've put together loads based on what components I can get. My latest loads are in FC brass, which I usually prefer not to use because of its lower case capacity compared to WW or RP brass. FC commercial brass weighs the same as Lake City military brass. So, here's a couple loads I "threw together with what I have" using FC brass that shot great- 150 gr Ballistic tip, 45.0 gr IMR 4895, WLR primer 165 gr Accubond, 44.0 gr RL15, Fed GM210 primer
I have not chronoed these, but they shot well in several different rifles.
Well I’ve recently picked up a Kimber Hunter in.308 and with some input from this thread I’ve been pretty happy with it. I recently got 100 Lapua cases on sale so I’ll have to readjust my load a bit when I start loading them. I’ve got 4 lbs of Varget but I have access to a 5 lb jug of RL15, kind of tempted to grab it and give it a try.
Hornady 168-grain hollowpoint boat tail match bullets over 45 grains of TAC in Lapua brass with WLRM primers. Sub-MOA at 2,775 fps from a 22" Remington 700.
165-grain Nosler Partitions over 45.8 grains of Varget in WW Cases with CCI 200 primers do just as well in that rifle.
After lurking and finding loads in this thread I get to add a proven load.
Savage 110 20 inch AND... Remington 700 AAC stock rifles. FC Brass 178 ELDX 2.820 COAL 43.6 grains Varget CCI 200 or FED 210 primers 2612 average velocity. SD 9 ES 11 This is always less than a half inch load. But routinely .25-.35 in groups. I have tried with different 180 grain bullets and they shoot sub moa. But not like this.
Can anyone shed any light on case capacity of Hornady match 308 and regular Hornady 308 brass compared to Winchester? The consensus here seems to be that Winchester has the largest internal case capacity/volume.
I've read through the whole thread this morning but don't see anything as far as Hornady brass.
I have access to several hundred once fired Hornady cases and just wondering if I should go for it or just stick with Winchester cases.
I loaded up two different loads today with 180 grain sierra bullets. One was 48 grains of w-760, and the other was 44 grains of 4895. Unbelievably they both shot bug holes. This was out of my remington 7600 carbine in 308.
I've hunted mostly with Hornady 150 gr. Interlocks and 47 or 48 gr. W748 and Federal 210 . This season I dropped down to 46.5 gr. and killed a buck with it. I've meant to chrono some loads but, haven't got around to it.
This thread is the reason I joined up. At the risk of derailing too heavily - I found a post of Brads from 2012(?) where he mentioned he hadn't used the Nos AB in 150 or 165 in the 308 iirc, but (years) later I see a recommendation from him on that bullet in 308. Brad, can you briefly explain your use experience there? Am working up a Varget / 165AB / Tikka T3x lite load in wifes 308 for next year elk. At 100, most are 1.5-2" groups, with a couple 1" or better groups so I think I'm getting close. Just wanted to hear some experience on this bullet in that application. Right now sitting at 45gr & 2700fps+/- for seat depth tweaking. No pressure signs.
If I can add anything to the conversation it's that the AB doesnt really seem to be too jump sensitive - all were good enough groups. .010 (alright group, 6 ES), .060 (good group 20ish ES), and .120 (best group, 20ish ES) all showed promise for incredible, though.
Old lot Varget @ 46.0 grains, with 4 shots well under 3/4" @ 2,815 fps
Newer lot Varget @ 46.6 grains, and 4 shots right around 1" @ 2,858 fps
I tried to get a Kimber 84M to like Varget, but that rifle far preferred R15. Now that I'm near outa that powder, I'll try to feed it IMR4064, and see what happens.
I tried to get a Kimber 84M to like Varget, but that rifle far preferred R15. Now that I'm near outa that powder, I'll try to feed it IMR4064, and see what happens.
This am,
45.0 gr 4064 got 2,821 fps, & a hair over 2" for 4 shots. (3 went into .785").
46.0 gr 4064 got 2,892 fps, and 1.085" for 4".
Huntable enough, but I may tweak it a bit further.
I have a 308 being put together at the moment on a Howa 1500 action, Bell and Carlson stock, and a 22inch chrome moly barrel (blued). I have a good supply of 150gn SST's about 4lb of 8208 and hopefully some Winchester or Hornady brass. The barrel is being made for me by a barrel maker I've used plenty of times before, and I've asked him to make it with 10 twist. Anyone tried 8208 in the 308?
Found a new favorite 308 load today. Chopped the stock on an old 700 to shorten it up for my gf. Dropped 45 gr of varget in WW cases with Cci primers. Tried 150SST, 150 hornady and 150 sierras. Sierra 2130’s put 5 into .6” at 100. Mild recoil too. I’m guessing deer won’t like it.
I've gotten over 2,900 fps with TAC and a 150 TTSX. I was getting groups dialed in when bullets and primers got hard to find, and I haven't had time to revisit that combination since then.
Keep the pressures up around max for best results.
In early September, I killed a smallish hog at about 50 yards with a 150-grain TSX (not TTSX). Load was 49.7 grains of CFE-223. MV in my 22" M-700 is 2,804 fps. At that distance, the bullet worked just fine.
I haven't had a chance to test it beyond 200 yards, but it's sub MOA at least that far.
I tried imr 4895 and W760 in mine. I used 48 grains of 760 and 44 grains of 4895 with sierra and hornady 180 grain roundnose bullets. I haven't chronographs either one yet. I got bug hole groups. Just amazing, considering I have a remington 7600 with a 18.5 inch barrel
I shoot primarily 308 with 165 gr bullet, that is my allaround rifle.
In my search h for the best load I found that I get identical velocities and accuracy from max loads of Varget, cfe223, and r15. Vastly different powders , virtually same result, that's why I venerate the 308, it basically eats any powder and spits out reliably . Velocity I get in my rifle and my conditions (winter, hi elevations) show lower than published ,all three powders around 2750, unsurprisingly all land in roughly same poi no need to change scope settings, I'm pleased with these findings especially that powder availability has been spotty, I can grab any of these with reliable result
That 308 I mentioned further back has proven to be the goods. I found a good load with 8208 at 44.7gn, CCI LR primers and a 150gn SST. I know some don't think a 3 shot group is valid, but I only shoot 3 shot groups out of light barrelled rifles for a couple of reasons. One, if you haven't killed what you aimed at in 3 shots you may want to try tennis, and two, sporting rifle barrels are a bit light, and heat up fast. As far as 10 shot groups are concerned, a waste of ammo.
Current good load is 44.0 grains of BLC2 under a 165 gr. Speer BTSP popped with a Federal LR primer in Sig brass. 5 shots in .5 twice. more testing to come but this will do it.
I replaced the firing pin in my grandfathers Winchester 100 .308 and decided I may hunt with it. Steel tube Weaver 4x wire crosshair in a tip off mount from the late 1960’s.
Fiocchi Brass CCI 200 150gr Hornady RN Imr4198 - 31grs
6 shots just under 1” at 50yds. Nothing spectacular but from what I gather these rifles aren’t overly accurate. Recoil was mild and function was perfect. I fired 10 rounds, 4 getting it where I wanted the zero and then a 6 shot group.
I am in the process of buying the wife a 308 and am looking for some loads using lighter bullets than 150's. She dislikes recoil and for WT's, We don't make long shots, 250 yds is max and normally 150-175 yds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel
I am in the process of buying the wife a 308 and am looking for some loads using lighter bullets than 150's. She dislikes recoil and for WT's, We don't make long shots, 250 yds is max and normally 150-175 yds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel
Barnes TTSX 130 grain - TTSX, not the TSX 45 +/- grains of Varget (tailor it to your rifle) in fired Black Hills brass, which is supposed to be the same as Winchester brass. F210 0.010” off the lands works well. The 45 grains is well under max, there is no need to run full power and the recoil is mild when well below max.
We mainly use high shoulder shots to drop them where they stand to keep them out of the thorn brush.
One nephew shot a buck, 220#, facing him. The 130 TTSX was recovered from inside the offside rear leg.
I am in the process of buying the wife a 308 and am looking for some loads using lighter bullets than 150's. She dislikes recoil and for WT's, We don't make long shots, 250 yds is max and normally 150-175 yds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel
Barnes TTSX 130 grain - TTSX, not the TSX 45 +/- grains of Varget (tailor it to your rifle) in fired Black Hills brass, which is supposed to be the same as Winchester brass. F210 0.010” off the lands works well. The 45 grains is well under max, there is no need to run full power and the recoil is mild when well below max.
We mainly use high shoulder shots to drop them where they stand to keep them out of the thorn brush.
One nephew shot a buck, 220#, facing him. The 130 TTSX was recovered from inside the offside rear leg.
I use 46.0 grains of TAC with a 150 grain TTSX for 2900 fps in my 22 inch barreled Ruger Hawkeye .308. It gives me good accuracy and worked fine in very hot temperatures in Africa. It worked well on a big sable and should be a good elk load.
How about telling us which brass case you used. Federal and military weigh much more than Winchester. The 130 ttsx at 3000 killed a bear three years ago. Bullet entered the left jaw, went through the skull exiting the atlas joint, went into the body and exited in front of the hip. My load is 51 grains of Tac, Winchester primer and brass.
I am in the process of buying the wife a 308 and am looking for some loads using lighter bullets than 150's. She dislikes recoil and for WT's, We don't make long shots, 250 yds is max and normally 150-175 yds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel
Barnes TTSX 130 grain - TTSX, not the TSX 45 +/- grains of Varget (tailor it to your rifle) in fired Black Hills brass, which is supposed to be the same as Winchester brass. F210 0.010” off the lands works well. The 45 grains is well under max, there is no need to run full power and the recoil is mild when well below max.
We mainly use high shoulder shots to drop them where they stand to keep them out of the thorn brush.
One nephew shot a buck, 220#, facing him. The 130 TTSX was recovered from inside the offside rear leg.
I agree on both counts.
Thanks, Guys, I will give the load a try. I have also ordered a new rifle for myself so I will have 2 rifles to try it in. Daniel
Current good load is 44.0 grains of BLC2 under a 165 gr. Speer BTSP popped with a Federal LR primer in Sig brass. 5 shots in .5 twice. more testing to come but this will do it.
I got very similar results using the same brass and primers but with 44.5 gr of RL-15. My best results were at .130” off the lands, as mag restrictions had me starting at .110” off the lands.
I am in the process of buying the wife a 308 and am looking for some loads using lighter bullets than 150's. She dislikes recoil and for WT's, We don't make long shots, 250 yds is max and normally 150-175 yds. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks Daniel
Barnes TTSX 130 grain - TTSX, not the TSX 45 +/- grains of Varget (tailor it to your rifle) in fired Black Hills brass, which is supposed to be the same as Winchester brass. T F210 0.010” off the lands works well. The 45 grains is well under max, there is no need to run full power and the recoil is mild when well below max.
We mainly use high shoulder shots to drop them where they stand to keep them out of the thorn brush.
One nephew shot a buck, 220#, facing him. The 130 TTSX was recovered from inside the offside rear leg.
OK, The wife's rifle came in Monday and I have scope & rings on order that should be here Sat. or Monday. Loading time come about Tuesday . Jeff, I have a question , why did you specifie TTSX? Had you tried the TSX with poor results? I am going to try some of the LEHIGH bullets . Thanks Daniel
130 TTSX's also. Had been using 50g TAC, R-P brass, Fed 210m, 2.825" coal, but getting very low on TAC and low on Fed 210m so I picked up a brick of CCI-200's and have about 4lbs of Varget. I think it shoots well. And to somewhat expand on what others have said, the 130 TTSX hit like a lightning bolt. Haven't had a deer take more that 2 steps.
I have a Browning BAR Safari II .308 that I load with Nos. 125 gr. BT's and with 51.5 gr of W748 (see Nos. reloading manual # 9) for my wife. The recoil is lite and most of her shots are <100 yds - we haven't had to trail wounded deer more than about 50 ft.
Just finished load development with my Bergara Ridge SP 308. Shot Varget really well but finalized load with 50.5gr of Win 748, neck sized Federal brass shot in rifle, Federal GM Match primers, 130gr TTSX's seated just below first ring from point, can't recall exact depth but I got it wrote down in my load manual. Suspect that heat was messing with me a good bit when trying the Varget as it was in the 90's a good bit when trying it but no question about the 748.
I have 100 brass cases made by Australian Defence Industries this side of the pond, and I can only cram about 45gn of Varget into the cases that weigh around 185 grains. So considering that case capacity equals pressure, I should be OK. I'll run them through the Chrony and see. Anyone ha 308 brass that heavy?
You're right about that. The company also make ammo for the military so the brass may be a bit heavier to handle use in a machine gun. I decided not to use it anymore after I got my neck sizing die caught in the neck. The brass has been annealed, but it was a job getting the neck die through. Using a Lee die.
Daaaahhhh, uh huh yeah yeah, l have George, 3 grains and no more to start !
Oh saaarrry George in my Nosler load coloring book is says 44 to start 48 maxs. How that buuudy?? Nosler has some preeety colors in thier book George!! I like it aaaaaaloot !
Does anyone here have data for TAC and 150gr Accubonds.
I used 45.5grs of TAC with the 150's for around 2900fps out of my 308 Win.I found whatever I loaded with Varget,I drop down one less grain with TAC and had a good load with nearly the same velocity too.150gr bullets,45.5grs TAC-46.5grs Varget.165gr bullets 44.5grs of TAC-45.5grs Varget.
I mentioned in a previous post that I was using some heavy brass make by Australian Defence Industries that weighed 187gn. Well I thought I'd use it anyway, mainly for feral hogs, I'm putting 45gn of Varget in the case and the powder comes up to the base of the neck. Overall length is 2.7inch using a Hornady 150gn Interlock. It shoots OK for pigs, and there's no signs of pressure. We have a trip coming up where some farmers want the pigs and goats thinned out. I'll run the load though the Chrony before I go, but I'm expecting around 2,700fps.
That load of 45gn Varget turned out pretty good. I chrony'd it to get an average of 2,775fps. No signs of pressure, and I'm trying our some primers made in India, and they worked very well, in fact they went bang just as they were supposed to do. Got the rifle sighted to be dead on at 200m.
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I have three of them,every one picked up on the cheap because they would not shoot for their previous owners.. I'm not sure what they expected from a short barreled rifle with a full length stock, but I'm sure they didn't get what they wanted.![[Linked Image]](http://www.hunt101.com/data/500/43gr_IMR-4895_168gr_Berger_Match_210M_3_075.jpg)
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