So with money left from another project I had enough for yet another rifle and I ordered a Ruger SS .358 winchester. My 300WSM with 180 Accubonds is accurate, deadly, but very loud in the woods, thus a need for another "less noisy" rifle surfaced! I saw Steelheads post regards his Ruger .358 rifle was 7.5pounds full up, and this tipped me over the edge, I had always thought rugers where much heavier!! Then the .358 must be less noisy than the 300WSM as it uses quite a bit less powder.

Where does one start with the .358Win in the Ruger for a deer bullet, I was initially thinking of 180 grain pistol bullets, but am now looking for recommendations for an all around bullet/powder combination, I have quite a few Federal LR match primers so I would be starting with those, but don't know best bullet, weight bullet, powder, or reasonable starting place with the gun! Deer are the small Southern Deer variety with 160-170 lbs being a big one where I hunt, ranges are under 150 yards or so, scope will probably start as an FXII 4X from Leupold. Sadly I opted for Rifle magazine instead of handloader this time so do not have access to JB's artical, it seems I should take both of them from now on!

My buddy and I have been shooting the 180 gr Speer into deer for a few decades now with superb results. The bullet penetrates well and really keeps them down. We used IMR 4198 for quite a while and now I use RL 10 in the 358 with both 180's and 200's.

Previous to that I used the 200 gr Silvertip over IMR 3031 and I had quite a supply of that bullet but I can't buy them these years as a component.

I have four 358's and three of them are active to some extent. In a newly acquired MS carbine in 358 I am loading the 180 Hornady Single Shot Pistol Bullet. I hope to put one in a coyote before the deer season and see how it works. Others say that bullet does well on deer.

To add that RL 10 is slightly faster than 3031 yet its smaller grained and more will pack into the case. Thus its optimum with the 180 gr bullet and excellent with 200's. I load 48.5 grs as max in a 99f. Work up to that.

Thank you, RL10 is a new one for me, I would prefer I think the 200's as a good start but I will also get some 180 Hornady pistol bullets, I know that the 250 is too much for the intended target. Anyone use RL15?

Try 200 grain Hornady Spires over IMR 4895 or IMR 4320.

Dale

Another vote for the 200g spire. Its like a premium bullet in 358 win. I use imr 4064 and Varget, but 358 is an easy cartridge to get to shoot well with many powders, 3031 and both 4895s often recieve honrable mention as well. I hear the next issue of handloader will have TAC data from MD which may give better velocities than was obtained in the past.

yes I sent handloader an email and asked them if I rejoined if they would send me the last magazine. I am taking rifle and hunter now, am a bit disapointed in hunter. I am ordering a box of the 200 grain Hornady's today! I am getting to where I like Hornady bullets, they don't cost as much as the accubonds or partitions at least IIRC in the 30 and 27 calibers, and they don't shoot too bad!

I recently started shooting a 358 win.I like the heavy 250s and at this time the only powder I ve bunrned thru mine is H-335 and it does a very respectable job.........

No doubt the 250 will shoot thru a WT deer. I am going to try the 200's first, the .357 pistol bullets is what intrigued me the most, I always did want to hunt deer with a pistol but could not get past the damn blast from a .357Mag or 44mag, so I will try before the end of this year the next best thing! Pistol bullets!! I am getting the Ruger but may upgrade in the future if Kimber ever releases the Montana in .358...

In the latest issue of Handloader JB does a good article comparing the 338 Federal and the 358 Winchester.

There is some great load information there.

A Ruger Hawkeye in the latter and a Tikka T3 Lite in the former are on my radar as eventual purchases.

EFWakeman, I had the same thought, the Ruger Hawkeye is my choice in .358, again if you are going to go bigger I think the .358 is a better choice than the 338, if you already own a big 30. I was just looking at the little frontier rifle in .358Win at 6.75 pounds/16 inch barrel. Too short for me but I wonder how much velocity you would lose from 22 inches to 16 inches in the .358? I may have the Hawkeye barrel I get reduced to 20 inches dependinng on the balance of the rifle.

I'm thinking a 250gr Norma Oryx should be soft enough to get it done, but can't say for certain YET.

The tightest three shot group I ever fired from a rifle was with the Sierra 225 gr boattail and IMR 4895. This was in a 35 Whelen,
but it just might work in the short case! I would be curious about Varget as well, if I had time to play around with it.
whelennut

In my tang safety 358win I use the 225GK, It is stupid accurate and makes nice mushrooms in my bullet tester. That said the 200gr Hordady is probably the hard to beat choice as it is a pretty good value and is a grea bullet.

I gotta agree with Miket_81, That Sierra 225 GK punches clover leafs out of my Sako carbine. I find it soft for general elk hunting purposes but it should be outstanding at rolling deer or pigs.

That said, I think the 200 gr Hornaday is the best deer bullet out there for the .358. Cheap, readily available and like all Hornaday bullets, deadly...JMO though...

For shooting under 150 yards the 200 grain Round nosed corelokt is perfect. My load was 47.0 grains of 3031 and this bullet held together, expanded perfectly and penetrated thru three deer no problem. This bullet has the old style jacket and is very reliable. I expect I was getting 2500 fps from my BLR and accuracy was right at MOA.

Another vote for the Hornady 200 Spire Point. I've seen a 225 Sierra not expand from a .358 at close quarters.

interesting Ramshot lists loads for the .338 Federal but not the .358 win, I hope I can find some that approach these pressures and performances!
338 fed
Barrel: 24", Twist 1-10" Primer: FED 215
X-Terminator 185 BAR TSX 43.0 2,520 47.8 2,757 60,000 2.783
X-Terminator 200 HDY SP INTK 42.4 2,476 47.1 2,656 59,250 2.814
X-Terminator 215 SIE SBT 39.9 2,349 44.3 2,532 59,875 2.800
X-Terminator 225 NOS A-BOND 38.8 2,197 43.1 2,436 57,500 2.814
TAC 185 BAR TSX 43.4 2,485 48.3 2,708 57,000 2.783
TAC 200 HDY SP INTK 43.8 2,467 48.7 2,664 60,000 2.814
TAC 215 SIE SBT 42.0 2,371 46.7 2,564 59,500 2.800
TAC 225 NOS A-BOND 39.7 2,135 44.1 2,384 59,750 2.814

50grs of TAC is given me a hair over 2525 with 200gr TSX's, I'll keep bumping that one up.

47.5grs of TAC is 2400 with a 225gr Sierra.

All from a factory Ruger 77 in 358 Win.

Steelhead, what primers are you using with TAC?

This is what I got from Ramshot via email: For the 358 Winchester we suggest the following:

Caliber: .358 Winchester.

Barrel length: 24�

Powder: Ramshot � TAC.

Bullet weight: 180 grains.

Start load: 48.0grains (2300 � 2400 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 53.0grains (2400 � 2500 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

Bullet weight: 200 grains.

Start load: 43.0grains (2300 � 2400 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 48.0grains (2500 � 2600 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

Bullet weight: 225 grains.

Start load: 41.0grains (2200 � 2300 Ft/p/sec)

Maximum load: 46.0grains (2400 � 2500 Ft/p/sec). Full case/Compressed.

NOTES:
It� important to note that SAFETY is our prime concern therefore we strongly recommend.

1. TO ALWAYS BEGIN LOADING AT THE RECOMMENDED MINIMUM �START� LOAD.

2. If at all possible, measure the velocity and correlate with our data.



Regards

Johan Loubser

Ballistician

Ramshot/Accurate Powders

Tel: (406) 234 04 22 email: [email protected]

Western Powders Inc -- Miles City � Montana.

Hi and thank you both, I am headed over to pick up a pound of TAC to try right now!

The maximum velocity that TAC can attain with both the 180 gr bullets is not that impressive. Now I would really want to know more such as was the lab. test brass new, once fired or FL sized?

With the 180 gr bullet TAC is off the page. With a compressed load yet its only capable of 2400 to 2500 fps. Even IMR 4198 could always do 2700 fps. Forget TAC for 180's.

With 200 gr bullets in the .358 W. a maximum compressed load of TAC can make 2500 to 2600 fps. Now this is good but RL 10 does that for me without compression in my FL sized brass.

Savage- There is no published data from Ramshot on the .358 Win. The data I got from them came from Johan Loubser, their ballistician. Extrapolated data or real data? Dunno.


This is what Mule Deer worked up in the recent Handloader magazine (bench data):

200gr. TSX 52.0 grains 2750fps
225 Sierra 49.0 grains 2552fps
250 Nosler PT 48.0 grains 2443fps
250 Hornady RN 48.0 grains 2404fps

*200gr Winchester Factory Silvertips-2445fps

I don't believe their was any mention of compressed loads in the article. Mag primers were used.

Sakoluvr,

Thanks for the data from Mule Deers article. Getting 2750 with a 200 gr bullet, TSX yet, in a 358 W. is new world or perhaps out of context with what I have seen with all other powders and in fact what you provided from the Ramshot ballistician.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...owflat/Number/2263728/page/1#Post2263728

Was MD's load of 52 grs of TAC behind a 200 gr TSX that got 2750 fps pressure tested?

I ran up the charge on RL 10 behind a 180 gr and got very high velocities. I am not even going to say what the top velocity was as sure enough somebody may try to match it.

That was done in an old 22" barreled M99f and by the way it 'extracted' fine.

That TAC velocity with the 200g TSX looks impressive, I bet it could kill even a Texas whitetail (which means it would be murder on a moose or elk) I wonder if similar velocities can be reached with 200g Hornadys..I would hope so as the hornady would take up less powder space.

Now a regret making a powder buy and getting 8lbs of varget for my 358. It will take all summer for me to shoot it up..I better get at it.

I just did not get good accuracy using Varget. I have the load written down at home, but I got it from Bryce Towsley out of the American Rifleman magazine. I went back to good old 3031 (45.0 grains). Very accurate, and never recovered a Hornady 200 GR SP. I just got 2 lbs of TAC, and if it gives me the same or better accuracy as 3031, I will stick with it.

Has anyone used the 200 Hornady or 225 Sierra on elk from a 358?

Yup. Spike bull with the Sierra. Him him broadside thru the back edge of the lungs as he crossed a trail ahead of me... 75 / 80 yards away. That bullet performed well and exited. 2nd shot broke his back. I found the bullet in his spine in two pieces ( jacket and core ).

Personally, I think they may be too soft for general elk hunting where bigger bulls and difficult shots occur. Place it properly and it will be fine. I switched to the 225 gr partition. Two elk, all exits.

Plus-whatever on the 200 Horn SP; that's a great deer bullet in the .358.

Teeder, you are killing me with the tale of woe about the 225 Sierra. Dang it. It works way better for me at longer ranges than the 200 Horn (on targets), but, if it can't even be trusted to expand at close ranges... aagh. Your experience dovetails with what Sierra told me when I called them, which was to the effect that the bullet was designed for the Whelen.

I'll mention it again in hopes it gets some traction. RL7 is the absolute shiznit with bullets up to 200 grains in the .358. I can get an honest, verified 2640 fps with 200's from a 20" tube. I backed it down a grain to 2625 fps. Brass life is eternal, or nearly so (15+ reloads), the primers are round... no pressure signs of any kind, period, in my rifle. Guys I've shot many hundreds of rounds of this load and it really works.

RL7 also makes some really fun .223 loads that will cycle an AR but only use, if I remember right, 18 grains of powder.

Anyway... I know there's lots of inertia against using a new powder; it costs money. But dang it, someone PLEASE mess with RL7 and 200's, would ya?! It WORKS.

My load is far enough above the book max's that I don't want to publish it publically but PM me for details if you want. Let's just say it's a few grains above the max in the Barnes book, which is by far the highest "max" I've seen in print.

-jeff

Maybe it was a fluke. The Sierra did work great in our Whelen's, though we never hit anything big with them.
My brother and a friend have switched to the 200 Hornady and Speer 180 and 220 for their .358's.

Me, I'm just plugging along with the .338-06 that doesn't care what I load in it.

My rifle likes the Nosler ballistic tip (made for the Whelen) and the Sierra, both 225 grain. Both shoot with AA2520 (47.5 grains). Velocity is around 2400 fps.

Bob257

I had a BLR lever gun in .358 for a short time, and loaded the 200 grain Hornady Spire Point, the 180 grain Speer Flat Point, and the 220 grain Speer Flat Point. All three shot very well for me, and if I had to pick an all around bullet, it would be the 200 grain Hornady SP. That said, there was just something about that 220 grain Speer FP....

maybe the Ramshot data was extrapolated??? I got the same info that you did today it says 48 grains max with the TAC/200grain, no mention of primer type and indicated it was a compressed load. The TSX would compress it more I would think. The 200 grain TSX at 2750 exceed factory 350 Remington Magnum velocity! I would think you could kill anything under 100 yards on this continent with that load! 52 grains!!!

how much RL-7 for 2625FPS and what primer Large Rifle or LR magnum?

PM sent...

A lot of people consider H4198 and RL7 to be pretty similar in their capabilities. IMR 4198 is enough faster to be different. I base this on my 45-70 experience using all three powders. I found in my experiments with the 45-70 that full power it kicks too much. The 358 and 35 Whelen at top loadings don't have what it takes to cause neck injuries.

Thanks all! I have two powders to try now!

I've had good luck with RL-15 in the 308,8x57 & 350 Rem. Mag..
IMR 4320 in the 8x57 & 350 Rem Mag.,is - "As Equal". I've got to believe that these Powders would be worth a try in a 358 Win..

What is your load with the 225 Partition?

I am running 51 grains if I4895. This is a compressed load, and is a bit over some of the book max's if I remember right. It yields right at 2500 fps on a warm day <g>.


I know this, because I have just resurrected that load as a long-range load. Not long range exclusively... just a load that does better out to 375 yards than my 200-gn Hornady load. Running the numbers, due to the much much better BC of the Nosler, it still carries 1800 fps out at 375 yards. Even though it starts out almost 150 fps slower than the 200 Horn!

At any rate, at long range it's not subtle- it SMOKES the 200-gn Horn in any kind of wind. With a B&C reticle in my 2.5x8 I can get easy hits out to 375. Not saying I intend to use it that way, but, it really does open things up if suddenly your "close range thumper" is still delivering the mail reliably at 375 yards, yeah? It will sure help me decide which rifle to grab in the morning for blacktails.

Thank you........