I'm away from home for work and I had a hunting buddy email me for a good start load for his '06 using H4831 and a 165. Normally I'd just glance through my manuals, but away from home this isn't an option. I know it's a bit slow for this application, but it's what he has. I didn't find much on the internet either so I'll ask you guys. Of those of you that use this combo, what are you runnin for charges? I figure he'll be safe to start around 57-58grs under the 165.

Thanks for the help,


Brett

bump

Loaddata.com shows max charges of H-4831 in the 60 to 62 grain range for various bullet manufacturers.

Some samples:
Hornady 165 SPBT shows 60.0 max at 2831 fps.
Sierra 165 HPBT shows 61 grains at 2705 in a 22" barrel.
Speer 165 any type shows 62 grains max at 2772 fps.

Based on that your 57-58 grain estimate to start looks spot on.

One can usually get up close to 2900 fps with 165's in the '06 with IMR or Hodgdon 4350, based on the velocities above I'm thinking he'll run out of powder space long before hitting max pressures with H-4831.

Hope this helps.

I was going to say that I would think the 4350s would be more of an optimum choice, the 4831 would work better with the heavier bullets. It'll work, but the 4350s would be a tad better, velocity wise.

I don't think you can cram enough H4831 into a standard '06 case to cause problems for a 165. I have used 60 grains (or better) in mine with 180s for over 25 years without any issues. (And I now understand why the "foolish" comment of the more experienced reloader many years ago wasn't all that foolish. He said for the '06 it was simple enough to dip a case in 4831 -meaning the old WWII version which is now preceded by the "H", level it off, and seat a bullet. And that pretty much sums it up.) So, while 4831 is a bit on the slow side for the 165s, it will also hunt for you if need be.

Based on your comment that 4831 is what he has, start at 58 gr and probably work up to 60. I have run a lot of 168-172 gr match bullets with 60 grs, using that load for 600 yd competition.

However, he will probably have to use drop tube to get 60 grs in the case.

Find an old aluminum arrow, cut it to about 18" long.Tape a funnel to one end, if the right size,the arrow shaft will just barely fit into the .06 case. Drop the measured powder into the funnel slowly.

I attach mine to the side of my powder measure with rubber bands

As I remember,you cannot get enough H4831 in an .06 case to cause pressure problems or over loads,if 165 gr or less bullets are used

Too slow. Try RL19 which is the cat's azz w/ 165s in the '06.

Ok so now I've read the original post and realized that my advice above isn't what was asked originally.

Manual lists 61.5 as max w/ 175 gr SMK, so I'd start just under there and work up. Like others have said, drop tube'll likely be necessary.

Good luck!

I did not want to mention about dipping an .06 case,but that was the std way to load the 4831.Dip the case to full, tap on bench,re dip and seat the bullet. get up past 175 gr. bullets and you can get into trouble though.

4831 was .42 /lb. you could buy Mil surplus AP's, 150 gr, for .02 per round. Back then primers were .50/100. I sent many a thousand down range for 200 and 300yd work but usually used Sierra Match Kings for 600 yds.

It has been proven with slower burning powders in .06 size capacity cases, variations of 1-2 grains does not make a hugh difference in velocity/pressure or accuracy.

Guys, go back and read the original post.It stated he wanted to use 4831 as that is what he had.He did not request some other powder reccomendation.

I have use 4831 for many different cartridges. It might not be the optimum powder in all cases,but it will work, and quite effectively

And it's quite surprising how well it shoots and how effectively it kills, at least it did before chronographs were so simple and affordable. It's one powder I rarely buy in one pounders anymore (that is, when I can find 4831). It is a very versatile powder, if not always the very best choice. But then, I guess we're presently living in a time when we are forced by circumstances (of shortage) to make do with what we have. And I reckon many of us will learn some new things as a result.

Thanks for the help guys, I appreciate it....sent him a start charge of 58.

I just checked an older Hodgon Manual

Starting for 165 gr bullet is 56 gr, 2381fps, 34800 CUPS
Max is 61 gr , 2770fps, 44700 CUPS.

Bringing this one up from the depths to see how this turned out?

I loaded up 61grs of H4831+165NBT and got great accuracy @ 2700fps. 62grs shot just as good but I have not had a chance to chrono it yet.

BC74,
H 4831 is too slow for the .30/06 in my experience. I have never achieved highest velocities with any bullet weight in this case using that powder.

I would move to slightly faster powders like 760/H414, the 4350's, or Rel 17.

A 165 grain bullet should be moving around 200 fps faster than the load you achieved.

John

Thanks for the info.


From looking around even 4350 shows big variation in velocity with loads. 57grs imr4350 seems to be standard and I have seen velocity online from 2650-2850fps with that charge. I tried imr4350 from my other two '06's and accuracy was terrible.


I have 414, I may give that a run.

BC,
Here are my loads for 165 grain bullets in a 22 inch barrel.

Bullet Load Powder O. A. L. Velocity Energy Comments

165gn Win ST
Factory 2680 2.695"

165gn Hornady BT
61gn Win 760 2942 .967"
61gn H 4350 1.139"
60gn Rel 19 2691 .8"
53gn VARGET 2887 1.01" 5 shots
55gn VARGET 2958 MAX

165gn Speer BT
61gn Win 760 2890 1.627"

165gn Barnes XBT
53gn VARGET 2913
55gn VARGET 3008 MAX
61gn Win 760 3039
55gn Rel 15 3078

168gn Barnes TSX
61gn Win 760 2961
62gn Win 760 3016
62gn H 4350 2966 3283 Accurate Load

165gn Failsafe
52gn VARGET 3.144" 2841 1.25"
53gn VARGET 3.186" 2861 1.5"

John

Holy crap, 61grs of 760? Those are some great speeds with the 165's.

My rifle has a sloppy chamber. Work up please.

John

Oh yeah, working up is always a good idea, but daaaaaayyyym.

Sloppy chamber, did you have it reamed after the smith played a game of dizzy bat?

imr4350+165NBT

58.0grs - 3 shots = 1.090"
58.0grs - 3 shots = 1.261"
58.5grs - 3 shots = 1.641"

I tried 30-06 loads w/ a 165 over H4831, but they were all compressed loads, and needed a heavy crimp to keep the bullets from backing out. Went to H4350 and get better velocity, accuracy, and not compressed.

H4831 is great .270 powder. I like slightly faster powder for the '06. I think you can find better for the 30-06 than H4831.

IMHO,

DF

Agree with the guys above. I tried H4831sc and it is just too slow burning for the '06. H4350 is were its at with both 165's and 180's for me.

Mark in GA

I doubt you cram enough 4831 in that case with 165's to cause any problems.

I run W760 mostly with 165's

I would run the 165's with fireformed winchester brass (thinner giving more capacity) - as much as you can fill it with, rattle it with your electric toothbrush and then top it up again and seat the bullet with a crunch.

I've put as much as 62 grains in fireformed ww brass behind a 180 without a problem. YMMV

I use Winchester brass and partial size my brass. 63grs gave no crunch after tapping it to settle the powder.


I am going to try to find some H4350 also.

Hasn't anyone ever heard of a drop tube to get the 4831 powder into a smaller case. Cut an old aluminum arrow off about 15" long. Tape a funnel to one end and drop the powder thru the tube into the case.
I have probably burnt more H4831 powder than any other.
However,anything like a 165 gr or lighter does much better with 4895, varget, 3031 etc. I have never warmed up to 4350.

Back in the60's and 70's when you could get 4831 for 45-50 cents a pound and mil pulled bullets for 2-3 cents a round. It wa common practice to scoop an .06 case full of 4831, bang it on the bench and fill some more, then seat the bullet on it with .06 ammo and NRA matches for 200-300 yard course of fire.600 yards ,was still 4831, but usually with Sierra match bullets.

Listen guys, 50grs RL15 under a 165 SST or whatever absolutely rocks. This is the first ever group I shot with that load for the SST @200yds, 1 shot got away from me, my bad. The other bullets I use for that powder charge is the 168MK & AMAX.

I worked up to 60gr of H-4831SC under 165gr Nosler BTs. Accuracy was great but it kicked like a European soccer player and went a different route. Didn't chrony this load though.

4350, 4895, 4064, W760/H414, Big Game and so many more.
A 165 in a 30-06 is one of the easiest combos to load for.

Had some H4831sc leftover from another project and wanted to burn it up. Loaded some 165 grain Hot-Cors in the -06 with great accuracy,(60-62 grains) the best the rifle ever did.

I used it up and still have many loaded rounds left. Two thumbs up from this ol two dollar dirt logger.