I'm starting to wonder if a scale I started with back in the 80's, a RCBS 5-10 is measuring as accurately as it used to. I see you can buy a weight set that will tell you whether your scale is accurate or not but if its not, then you just spent $30 or more for the cost of that information. Do they wear out over time? I keep mine in a cabinet when not in use but it still accumulates dust that I brush off before using. I weigh every load so it has literally 1000's of loads to account for. Are these new digital scales worth the money or are the old beam scales still the way to go. Looking for knowledge, thanks. Mike

I'll never give up my beam scale, I use an Ohaus 1005, very similar to your scale - Ohaus makes the RCBS scales from what I understand. I've never heard of one going bad, just keep the pivot points cleaner, maybe lubed with graphite dust. What makes you think it's less accurate?

Everyonce inawhile I weigh a random bullet, depending the bullet's actual weight my basic 5-0-5 seems to be fairly accurate.

Put a 168 gr. Sierra HPBT Match bullet on the scale...it should weigh 168 gr. No kidding, we found these as accurate at the calibrating weights....

Ingwe

Good tip Ingwe, think I have one, gonna go look.

I weigh all my charges too, currently running a 10-10, nice scale. Not sure if they actually go bad, but I think over time my 505's dampening magnet got funky.

On aside, I make a slug out of steel rod that weighs the same as my powder charges. Periodically I place it on the pan to check my "zero". This has been the easiest for me to make the check without constantly setting the scale back to actual zero, which is a pain in the ass to break stride during a run.

I've never wanted to use any lube on my scale because of contamination to the powder, no matter how remote that may be, maybe I need to change my process there, the reason why I may think its not as accurate, 2 years ago I bought a chronograph, a .270 that was once a constant 7/8 inch grouper had gone to the crapper with a load that was always a constant performer. It was now shooting 1 3/8 inch groups. The new load just didn't feel right, like it was to weak. My new chronograph tells me I'm only getting 2920fps. which is off from the book 3000fps.+. I live with it because it still is a proven game killer. So fast forward to now, I'm working on a 7mm Rem. Mag. load and again, not getting close to manual performance. So, I'm questioning my scale as to its accuracy. Just trying to cover all the bases. Most of my reloading gear is 20+ years old. Just wondering if others update there equipment from time to time.

I'd be looking several other places before a scale in the case of reduced accuracy, 2920 fps on a previously 3000+ fps can simply be change in the lot of powder used, and manuals are notorious for optimism compared to hunting rifle realities. I'm pretty sure your scale is probably just fine. As for lubes, a dry graphite powder won't contaminate it any more than the graphite powder that's already part of the coating on the powder kernels, IIRC.

With just a bit of care scales must last for quite a long time. I have one bought in 1978 that is still my go to scale and still checks perfectly. I will really hate it when it does go belly up, it's one of the RCBS (ohaus) 304 double beam jobs.
The weight set is not a bad thing to have around but as ingwe pointed out, about any smk will be on the money. For quick and dirty I keep a 6.5 107gr smk handy.

+1 on that. Most bullets will weigh + or - .1 or .2 grains from where they should be. I used to weigh bullets until I realized it's waste of time. It did tell me that my scale is close enough though.

As far as lube goes. NO NO. It's not needed. Just squeaky clean on the pivot points is what I do. Don't leave your scale exposed to air forever. Cover it or put it away when your done using it.

A far as the difference in loads, look elsewhere. Different lots of powder, different components etc.. The chronograph is also where I'd look at for errors before your scale.

If nothing else, buy a set of check weights, if you really doubt the scale. I don't think that's where the problem is though.


fish head

If you have opened a new can of powder it might be a little slower than your other one.

I'll add to the no lube theme, that's what the instructions say. When I'm feeling particularly obsessive I'll clean the agate bearings and pivots of my 10-10 (circa 1980) with alcohol on a cotton swab. Works as well as ever, can't come up with an excuse to buy another.

No.

About 10 years ago I bought a electronic digital scale to use for handloading. After a while, I noticed my handloads were performing irrationally. One day they would be clocking velocities higher or lower than expected, or showing pressure signs with established loads. I about went crazy looking for the culprit. Then I determined the electronic scale wasn't holding calibration during my reloading sessions. I threw the wretched thing away and went back to my trusty RCBS balance beam scale.

This episode prompted me to purchase a set of check weights to use with the balance beam scale just to make sure it doesn't go bad. Of course it never has and having the check weights readily available changed my reloading procedure. These days, I set/calibrate the scale to the charge I intend to load with the check weights at the start of every session. This way I'm certain the measured charge weights are correct every time. It only takes a few seconds to do this easy calibration, plus it serves as a nice confirmation the scale is set properly. So for me, purchasing a set of check weights was a very good thing.

BTW, electronic digital scales these days probably hold calibration well. But I'm not interested in finding out.

The purpose of the scale weight set is to check the scale, but more importantly to check yourself; it is not hard to set a scale incorrectly (i.e., 75.0 grains instead of 70.5 grains of powder). It may be an uncommon occurrence, but if you have a bad mistake only one time is enough. I see it is as a three way check system; I zero the scale, then set the charge, then double check with the weights, then weigh the charge on the scale. A tip I learned here on the Campfire is to wipe off the blade, knife edges, and stones occasionally with rubbing alcohol if your balance scale seems to be acting erratically.

Well said Odessa. In fact, I consider a good set of check weights an essential part of reloading gear.

Good point Odessa. As for lubing the scale, the graphite powder suggestion came from a gun rag years ago, and I think I've done it once, which has since been wiped away by rubbing alcohol on a Q-tip.

I use several different bullet weights to proof mine.
The balance points (knives, I think they're called) can become worn or the little inserts that the balance points sit in.
I called Ohaus about mine and they offered to refurb it for me but when I told them I didn't have time to do that, they sent me a new set of inserts that I put in myself.
We're talking about a balance beam scale that is around 40YO. I put the new inserts in about 15 years ago and a couple of years ago, when I got my Lyman 1200, I proofed them against each other and they agree right acrost the board.

Some sclaes wear at the pivot point. I wore out 2 sets of scales before I realized this. I bought a 10-10 about mid 90's and it is still doing ok but because of past experience, I trust nothing and check everything.

JW

I wore grooves in the semi-clear pivot "V"s which seem to be made of a very hard nylon into which the scale's balance beam's two steel arms pivot in my Ohaus 505 which I purchased in the early 1960s. I wore them out because I weigh EVERY charge... and I've loaded a great many reloads over the years.

The scale's pivot arms began to "catch" in those grooves and give me false readings. And so, about 12 years ago, I called Ohaus to buy two more hard nylon (?) pivot V's and was told Ohaus doesn't sell powder scales or parts anymore, but makes scales exclusively for RCBS.

The person with whom I spoke also told me that I would not be able to set up the two new pivot "V's" because they have to be set with very precise air gauges which I, of course, didn't have.

As a result, I purchased a new RCBS 1010 which was their top of the line balance-beam scale at the time. RCBS customer service also sent me those two pivot "V's" because I thought I could get my old Ohaus 505 working again regardless of what I'd been told.

Well... I installed the new pivot "Vs" and, just as they said, the scale still didn't give consistent, correct weights. I fiddled around with 'em for a few hours, but I couldn't get them to work properly so I kept using the RCBS 1010 powder scale which I didn't like as much as I liked the original Ohaus 505 which was of somewhat better quality than the "cloned" RCBS 505 available at that time.

But the whole point of this explanation is to give you an answer to your question about your older powder scale... and "Yes", you CAN wear out a balance-beam, mechanical powder scale... 'cause I did it and it sounds like you may have done it as well.

Take a good magnifying glass and look at those opique, hard nylon (or plastic of some kind) V-shaped pivot arm holders into which the balance beam's two steel pivot arms sit. If you look VERY closely and see "grooves" in those V-shaped holders, they're probably "catching" on the steel balance-beam arms and giving you false powder weight readings just as my Ohaus 505 did. If this is the case, it's "new powder scale" time.

I hope this explanation helps you...


Strength & Honor...

Ron T.

I just reread this post. Two different issues with two different rifles.

The .270 could have accuracy problems with the rifle itself. Bedding? Copper fouling? Loose mounts and on and on. If it were only the powder charge or the load then a little more load development would quicky find out if this were the problem. Are you using the exact same components in the new load or better yet the exact same loads that shot well?

The 7mm rem mag not reaching "manual performance" is not uncommon. Each rifle is different on what speeds are obtainable.

I think that trying to trace two different problems to one common cause is probably not the answer.


fish head

I have an old lyman scale that I bought in 1985, it gives me the same weight at a new RCBS 505 I think, the step down one from the top. I weight all my charges.

I personally believe a mechanical scale is more reliable than a digital, I have a Lyman DPS 1200 II and I check it with my Dad's old RCBS, they're both accurate but the digital is way more sensitive and prone to mistakes than the RCBS. Your problem sounds more like copper fouling to me, you should check out your barrel. What do you use for a bore cleaning solvent?

"maybe lubed with graphite dust.'

Graphite is harmless to both the scale and powder. In fact, powder is mixed with a bit of graphite to help it flow better by the makers. The design of the pivots abd bearing don't require any lube, just keep them clean.

Digital scales crash. Beam scales will last forever if they are taken care of. Certainly they can be bent, broken, dirty/dusty, dinged, etc, and otherwise physically damaged but they don't "wear out" at all.

Dropeed my first RCBS 5-0-5 on a concrete floor about 15 years ago. Kept using it but didn't trust it, so replaced it with another 5-0-5 which is still in use.

I did baby this new one a bit and boughtan RCBS dust cover. It stays under that cover when not in actual use. I don't know if dust can get under the pivot area or not but figure it doesn't hurt to keep it clean.

As regards to the .270, I'm 99% sure its the load, all components were the same except it was a new batch of powder, H4831. The scope, base and rings have all been replaced since I loaded that batch of 100 and accuracy is still not on par of what it use to be. Its now my daughters rifle, still a great rifle and I have confidence that my loading technique needs to get better for it vrs. throw 100 rounds together based on a previous load. Some tinkering maybe in order. The verdict is still out on the 7mag., I'm still in the process of working with it but it is turning out to be a good shooter so far, just not as fast as what maybe other rifles in its class are. Tonight I intend to clean my scale and weigh a few different bullets and see what the out come will be.

Wipe out bore cleaner and occasionally run some Barnes CR10 behind that just to make sure the bore is getting clean. As of yet, the wipe out seems to be doing a great job.

I went ahead and took some denatured alcohol and a q tip, cleaned up the pivot points on the scale. The q tip showed no residue build up at all. I looked the scale over closely for wear and saw none. Next check was to weigh some different bullets. Sierra .277 150gr. weighed exactly that, Sierra .284 160gr. weighed 160.1, Hornady 50gr. .223 VMax weighed 49.9, and a Nosler Ballistic tip 50gr. .223 weighed exact. My conclusion here is that my scale still has plenty of life left in it and that I need to be more thorough in my reloading techniques. Thanks for the input!

"As regards to the .270, I'm 99% sure its the load, all components were the same except it was a new batch of powder, H4831. The scope, base and rings have all been replaced since I loaded that batch of 100 and accuracy is still not on par of what it use to be."

That statement shows that you now have two new varibles in the .270 to contend with. A different lot of powder and a new scope, base and rings. However, going from a 7/8" group to a 1 3/8" group sounds like an issue related to the change in powder lots.

I think you're right on track with thinking it's the load.


fish head

May not make any difference but it makes me feel better to take the balance beam off the pivots when the scale is not in use. I think it is the bumps askance that dull the knives and when the balance is not in use, that is when it gets bumped.

I have loaded a lot and not sure I have ever worn a scale out. I personally do think the Redding scale is more accurate than the RCBS/Ohaus and definitely more accurate than the digital I had.

I used the same Lyman/Ohaus D5 for 43 years, and then one day I couldn't get the beam to center. Maybe it was a fluctuation in the earth's magnetic field, maybe something else, I don't know. I set it on a shelf and started using a PACT electronic scale that I bought a few years ago but had never used.

Then one day I happened to glance at my old scale and the beam was on-center, dead nuts. I have no idea why. But, I'm still using the new electronic scale because the digital readout is easier for the old eyeballs to read.

Quicker too.

That's a really interesting question. I thought I was the only "lucky" person.

I have an RCBS 5-0-5 I bought back in the 1980s which has developed some consistency issues. I can zero the scale, then tap the pan to start it swinging and it'll come back to .2 to .3 grains (guestimate) off zero. It didn't used to do that, it used to be absolutely reliable and predictable. For a long time, if it'd start acting "wonky" I would clean the blade and notch which totally fixed the problem. Now that isn't enough. I'm thinking about replacing it.

Tom

A old time trick whilst using a balance beam scale is to tap the work bench a couple of times to "settle" the scale after the poise has come to rest. It's one of those little things that becomes automatic after a while.

I've ran into a couple of minor issues with my 5-0-5. One is moving the pivot point to where the edges contact the scale. It very slightly interferes with readings to about + or - a tenth of a grain. It's still more than enough accurate for weighing charges though. The other issue is where I now load I set my scale on a very out of level window sill. Just bumping the scale slightly would be enough to throw it out off zero. I zero it out and tape the scale down to eliminate this problem.


fish head

My RCBS scale also started to act "strange".........whatever that means. No matter, it wasn't working like it had for many years. I called RCBS and they told me that the plastic notch inserts were wearing out and that they would send me new ones to replace the old....which they did.

End result..........GTG just like the day I bought it.

So yes, parts can wear out. Keep in mind however, that I've loaded about as many rounds as gallons that have spewed from the BP leak.......+/-.

In my 40 years of loading I have had one Ohaus 10-10 need service. I sent it back and it was replaced with a new one. I know it was new as it was a different shade of light brown and the plastic cover had no scratches at all. Mine had been packed up so many times and taken to the range it was mostly scratches. I also have a Redding scale that is mirror image of the old Ohaus 505 I bought while the 10-10 was off at the factory in 1982. I had the good fortune about 1985 to go to a gunshop clearance and got an Ohaus (RCBS 304) for $40.00 in the box new. I keep all of them covered up all the time except when in use, to keep dust out of them. I have two sets of check weights, one very old set that has very small weights that go down to .1 of a grain for a total of 50 grains and a Lyman weight set that is a few years old. I always check my scales before I start loading, that is just the way I was taught in 1968 by one of my Dad's friends that use to take me hunting when Dad was away working. Four or five years ago I bought an electronic powder dispenser/scale and I always check it with a balance beam scale, just as I have always checked my Redding micrometer powder measure. Even without electric power I can turn out perfect loads.
Good shooting,
Marcus.