The powder has finally hit the market. Did some comparative testing this morning. Was curious if 4000 MR would best RL-17's performance.

Two 7 Rem Mags were used. 24" and 30" barrels.

Original loads:

24" barrel. moly coated 150 nos bt, 67 gr of RL-17 vel 3260
30" barrel. Moly coated 140 accubond 66 gr of RL-17 vel 3400

Temperature for testing was mid 80s.

Worked up loads for 24" barrel, with two cases per 1 grain increments using same components/loading methods except for change in powder

66 gr vel 3046 3047
67 gr vel 3077 3106
68 gr vel 3151 3163
69 gr vel 3186 3183 max load for conditions
70 gr vel 3254 3264 hint of bolt lift/ shiny extractor mark



30" barrel again same components/loading methods

66 gr vel 3351 3287
67 gr vel 3356 3386
68 gr vel 3402 3403 hint of bolt lift bullets touched
69 gr vel 3452 3450 same bolt lift bullets touched
70 gr vel 3501 3477 accuracy fell off/harder bolt lift
71 gr vel 3521 3527 same as 70 gr



Impressions: this powder didn't surpass RL-17's velocities in the short barrel but duplicated and slightly surpassed RL-17 in the longer barrel. Some velocities were very similar as seen above. Has accuracy potential.

The extruded kernels are smaller, approx 1/2 the length of RL-17 with same diameter. Even with the max loads there is an air space between the powder and base of bullet.

That is it for now. I intend to try 160 accubonds next.

Great report, thanks!

Where'd you get it?

Where did I get it? I had it on back order since last fall with Graff and Sons. I checked their website yesterday and discovered they had 1 lb and 8 lb containers. I asked why they didn't ship. The order disappeared. I also discovered that Powder Valley had it. So I called around Tucson and was surprised that Sportsman's warehouse had it. I drove over and got a few lbs.

As early as tomorrow I intend to try the 160 gr accubonds in both 7 rem mag rifles.


This powder was billed as being formulated similar to RL-17 with a longer burning curve. I am not sure that it is the case. I am awaiting an e-mail from a representative from Alliant. He is the person I talked to last September. Back then I was told over the phone that Nitrochemie would be formulating it to have similar characteristics to RL-17 with a longer burning curve. It was also supposed to be resistent to temperature changes. RL-17's canister says it is a extreme powder but 4000 MR's canister doesn't say it nor does it say it on Alliant's website.

To be continued.

Thanks for the report! Do I understand you correctly-- You're saying the 4000MR is an extruded, not a spherical?

AzShooter,was this the two accuracy loads for these two barrels?

24" barrel. moly coated 150 nos bt, 67 gr of RL-17 vel 3260
30" barrel. Moly coated 140 accubond 66 gr of RL-17 vel 3400


Thanks

The power pro 4000 MR is extruded with shorter but same diameter kernels as RL-17.

Yes those two loads were very accurate in my 7 Rem Mags. BOTH RIFLES USE MOLY COATED BULLETS.

Will be reporting on the 160 accubonds soon.....

Just got back from the second testing session. This time shot moly coated 160 accubonds from the longer barreled 7 Rem Mag. (30")

Didn't have any loads to compare as this bullet hasn't been shot before. Decided to compare RL-25 and Power Pro 4000 MR.


Conditions were 90-93 degrees. Bullets were seated approx .030" into rifling. Neck sized/neck turned win brass, 215 match primer. Two shots fired with each powder increment.

Power Pro 4000 MR
62 gr 3015 3015
63 gr 3043 3060
64 gr 3098 3114 most accurate with two shots cutting each other
65 gr 3122 3141
66 3148 3163 hint of bolt lift/pressure

RL-25

70 gr 3096 3077
71 gr 3120 3131
73 gr 3235 3261
74 gr 3320 3294 hint of bolt lift/pressure


That pretty much concludes any testing with the 7 rem mags and Power Pro 4000 MR.

MR stands for magnum rifle. Sure would like to know which magnum rifle!!! Getting a bit over 3100 fps with a 30" barrel doesn't seem very impressive to me.

Now deciding what rifle to test next.

I'm extremely surprised by that. Alliant claimed (still claims, both on the web and on the phone) that the entire PowerPro line is spherical, and they always claim it's coming out of the General Dynamics facility in St. Marks. I wonder what's going on?

I also wonder what cartridge(s) each of the PowerPro powders was designed for. The website claims that each was designed for a specific cartridge, but nowhere do they tell you what cartridge, and if you ask them on the phone, they seem confused. Hopefully we can get some better info from Alliant on this powder series soon.

I would like to see a test of this powder in the 300 WM ..

It just so happens that my hunting friend who lives in another city is having his 300 rebarreled here. I am going to break in the barrel and work up a load for him. The rifle is not ready yet but most likely in a week or two. Do you have a particular bullet weight in mind?

I plan on trying some 160 accubonds in a 284 win and some 100 gr partitions in a 243 very soon.

Yes 180`s maybe 180TSX or accubonds !

Thanks for the info, kinda surprising in a very disappointing way! Be interested to see your results from some other cartridges.

I am curious to see what the 300 WM yields with a 180 gr bullet..Alliant is advertising a solid 3100 fps..

Mz5,

I just reread the thread and missed your comments on the characteristics of the powder. It sure looks extruded to me. It is the shape of tiny rods or pieces from a mechanical lead pencil. It looks just like RL-17, H4350 etc.

My biggest disappointment is that this new Power Pro 4000 MR was presented as another long burning curve powder similar to RL-17. 6mmBR said something to that effect last September AND a representative from Alliant said it as well. I don't believe it has the same formulation as RL-17 or it would have beaten it in some of my tests.

To its credit it seems to have some nodes that were accurate with minimal velocity differences. I will be shooting one accurate load in that 7 rem mag soon to see just how consistent it is. While velocities were down compared to other powders it might be a good one for tight groups. FYI I have not heard from the Alliant Rep I e-mailed. I wanted to know if it was an extreme powder. RL-17's canister says it is, 4000 MR makes no mention of it.

Azshooter, I certainly believe you're seeing what you're saying. I'm jst confused (like you) because that's different from Alliant's claims. Hope you get some info from Alliant!

MZ5,

Thanks for the number...I talked with a very knowledgeable tech about 4000 MR. It is NOT formulated like RL-17 which is what I originally believed. There will be a slower magnum style powder with a burn rate similar to 7828 or Retumbo in about a year.

FYI the powder is called spherical but it is actually a hybred/sperical. According to the tech they extrude it then mash it flat. It doesn't look very flat to me! When you see the pics you will see why I called it an extruded powder.

Interesting, so it's like H100V maybe?
Did the tech give you an idea of where it stands on a burn rate chart?

Thanks for the pics. I wouldn't call that a spherical, either. One wonders: Is St. Marks now making extrudeds, too? Or are the claims of all PowerPro powders coming out of that facility un-true? Very curious.

I recieved an e-mail from alliant about the temp. sensitivity of 4000 MR, They are calling it moderatly temp. sensitive...

Gee that is nice that they offer a power that is moderately sensitive to temps. I wonder WHY They even bothered to offer this line?

I was told it is very close to the burn rate of RL-22. My experience so far puts it slightly faster.

I hope to try the 234 with a 100 gr, 284 with a 160 gr and repeat the best 160 gr load with the heavy 7mm. Temps will START at 80 degrees.

Try that 300 WM when you get the chance..

I wonder if it is similar to Winchester Supreme 780?

I was holding up any load work till that one was available, now it seems not worth the wait.

I have some Supreme 780, and unlike the photos in this thread, Supreme 780 is most definitely a Ball powder. Couldn't really address the burning rate aspect of things, though.

I wonder what hornady is using in their new ammo line. I thought it might be something like these power pro powders but it doesn't look like it is.

Bb

Went out this morning to try some other rifles with Power Pro 4000 MR, began shooting at 6:30 am, temperature was 86 degrees.

First rifle 24" 243. Non moly coated 100 gr nosler partition. OAL 2.665" Each velocity listed is an average of four rounds.

243:

40 gr 2850
41 gr 2925 had best accuracy @ 3/4".
42 gr 2955
43 gr 3060 group opened up

----------

Second rifle 284 win with 23" barrel and 3.1" mag box. Moly coated 160 accubond OAL 3.085" Temperature 89 degrees

284:

53 gr 2735
54 gr 2765
55 gr 2815
56 gr 2845
57 gr 2875

55-57 shot nice 1/2" groups

----------------------

Retried the most accurate load with that 30" 7 rem mag. It was
64 grs. Today it didn't shoot at well even though the temperatures were the same. Velocites were the same approx 3118 or so. Four shot group approx 1 1/2".

------------------------

Will be testing a 300 win mag next.

That 284win data looks promising. That could be a good powder for heavier bullets in the 270 and 280 also. A guy might could make 2900fps in a properly throated 280Rem with moly 160's.

While I haven't tried it YET I think RL-17 will smoke the 4000 MR load with a 160 in 284. When I do try it i'll share it here.

Im trying some RL-17 in a STW tommorrow. I'm starting at 70 grains and working up to 72 with 140 acc. Did you use IMR4350 data for your 7mag loads?

Yes the consensus around here was to use either 4350 load data. I'll be interested to hear how RL-17 works in your STW.

This thread was started because I THOUGHT this 4000 MR was the slower version of RL-17. Now that it has been determined NOT to be the case, I have been using it up and learning its characteristics. I think I'll use it in the 243 with those 100 grainers. I don't care about speed as long as I can get 1/2 MOA or so. It will be used for javelina next spring.

The thread continues

The Power Pro 4000 MR tests are now over. The last rifle to try was my friend's newly rebarreled 300 win mag.

I wanted to do a few "one shot and clean" to help break in the new barrel so I shot another rifle first.

First rifle was that 23" 284 win mentioned earlier. All loading factors were the same as the 4000 MR test. Wanted to show that RL-17 would soundly beat 4000 MR. I had never tried any 160s in this rifle with RL-17. When RL-17 came out last year I built a great load with a moly coated 150 nos bt. Worked up to 3200 fps but the accuracy load was at 3100 fps using 57 gr of RL-17.

Moly coated 160 accubond, temperature 90 degrees:

54 gr open groups
2905
2938
2895

55 gr open groups
2963
2978

56 gr began tightening up
3020
3023
3016

57 gr most accurate no pressure signs at all
3074
3067
3069
it was now 92 degrees. This load had two cutting into each other with total group size 3/8". It was 1/2" lower than the 150 nos bt with same windage. Will wait for cooler temps to try it again.





300 win mag with 180 nosler pt, temperature now 93 degrees

73 gr
3012 ave
74 gr sun angle messed with the chronograph, no velocities but two shots cut into one another
75 (suggested max load) 94 degrees, hard bolt lift, quit testing.
Sorry it wasn't much of a test. Too darn hot!


There IS going to be a slower powder with RL-17's formulation coming out in about a year.

STW using RL17.
1st 3349 3/4 high and left
2nd 3337 off right in the bulls
3rd 3320 1/2 left from first shot 1/4 high
4th 3316 1/2 high slightly right of first shot
5th 3377 ?? 2 3/4 high of bullseye 1/4 right??
Using 70 grains and 140 accubond 85 F
Next load coming up

Thanks for sharing all this info, Azshooter. I can't say that I'm super-anxious to buy a whole bunch of PowerPro powders based on this work. OTOH, I'd be more inclined to use this series in lieu of most of the Reloder series just because it's American-made (well, at least maybe it is? It's supposed to be spherical, too, but it's clearly not. ).

With 72 grains RL17 140 accu Fed 215... my max load. Slight ejector marks etc..



1st 3405
2nd 3441
3rd 3442
4th 3445
5th 3444

Not sure what happened with that first round. Speed is close to 100 fps faster than a max load with imr4350, however group was all over the place as barrel was warm etc...

This rifle has not proven to be much more accurate anyway.
Its next in line for a new barrel. I think the average speed of the last four rds was pretty impressive. Will try a cold barrel next.