I picked up a Remington 700 .30-06 that I'm trying out with 180 grain Hornady Spire Points and H-4831. I'm using the Hornadys because I think they are excellent bullets and the H-4831 simply because I have lots of it around for use in my .270.

So far, the recommended max load of 60.0 grains has been getting 2540fps from the 700's 20" barrel. Similarly this load developed 2470fps in a 22" Winchester 70.

From what I've been reading, H-4831 is on the slow side for .30-06 applications and this is normal. However, Hodgdon shows this load as developing 44,300 CUP and 2710 fps. Hodgdon has .30-06 data with loads at 50,000 CUP and much of Hodgdon's .270 data is loaded over 51,000 CUP.

I also see references to people loading higher and I've heard you can't use enough H-4831 with a 180 grain bullet in a .30-06 to be a safety problem. Sam Fadala has an article where he speaks well of loads using 62 grains of H-4831.

I'm planning to try a ladder test using 60.0, 60.3, 60.6, 60.9, 61.2, 61.5, 61.8 and 62 grains. Does anyone have any thoughts, feedback or experience to share?

I don't know about those volumes but 59.0 gr of H4831 behind a 180 gr hornady or TSX is the fave load in my wifes " Africa gun"...a Mark X in .30-06
It only clocks at about 2650 IIRC but stuff keeps falling fown dead in front of it....

Ingwe

What barrel length are you working with?

My experience started - before I even had an '06- with this thought: "Run a case through a tub of powder, shake it down enough to get a bullet started, seat the bullet ad hunt. It doesn't get any better than 4831."

I was doing some loading at the time so I "knew" that was unsafe.

When I got an '06 some time later, I discovered that 60.0 grains, as frequently listed, is a perfectly good load and kills big stuff perfectly well.

Then I got a chronograph and discovered I was wrong. It's no good.

Later, (thank that no-good Barsness ), I reconsidered 60.0 as being less than max and tried a bit more. No problemo and works well also.

But there really is nothing so wrong with a 2600 fps load of 180 grains of bullet that a moose or similar can't prove worthy. It's a good, working load.

I think you have got a good idea there. It could never hurt to try. It sounds like you are going to be safe-so go for it. I have noticed that all the new Hodgdon data seems to show lower max powder charges than they did even just a few years ago. Especially with H-4831. I have a Hornady book from 1979 that shows a load for the 264WM that is 11.0 grains less than the current Hodgdon data for H-4831. I could not believe the difference.

However I picked up an extra 100 fps in my 30-06 with Rl22. Do you have any of that laying around. You have to fill the case, but the old girl will take it. Tom.

I have shot that basic load (60 H4831 and a 180) in a lot of .30-06's and the velocity will vary widely with the rifle and bullet.

In one tang-safety Ruger 77 one particular lot of Speer Grand Slams got right around 2800 and well under 1" accuracy for 3 shots at 100 yards. In other rifles with other bullets velocity has been lower and accuracy varies. That's tbe best combination of accuracy and velocity I've seen.

These days I generally load 58 grains of Ramshot Hunter with 180's. Velocity is more consistent from rifle to rifle (2750 in most and 2800 in some) and accuracy more consistent as well.

24" IIRC.....must be a "slow" Bbl....

Ingwe

With my pre 64 .06, 60 gr of H4831 is above max an I get sticky bolt lifts. I find 57 gr is my best accuracy and it does not lack in killing power for sure.
With 165 gr bullets, you can't get enough 4831 in to be a safety problem ,but some 06's you might just have a problem, with 180 gr bullets some won't as always ,work up to it.

I loaded alot of 150 and 165 gr, .06's by just dipping the case efull, tap on a bench and fill it up then seat the bullets. Probably at least 10,00 rounds ,back when 4831 was 42 cents a pound

What's kind of interesting is that Hodgdon's http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp
shows 60.0 grains with a 180 BTSP for 44,000 CUP as max while they show a 190 BTSP with 61.0 grains for 50,000 CUP max.

I may be recalling the wrong "facts" now, but it seemed like 60.0 was about all one could get in the case years ago, well before they dreamed up the short-cut deal.

Well, I'm going to go ahead with my ladder test in the next couple days. I'm sure that 2600 fps would work fine. But I'd appreciate getting over 2700 of possible otherwise I'm going to feel like I'm shooting an inefficient .308 Winchester.

I'd like to try Ramshot Hunter but it's really hard stuff to find in Canada. More likely, I might try H-4350.

Fraser,

I'm certainly not as experienced as everyone here but since I am currently working up the exact same load as you are I'll give my two cents.

I'm currently practicing with my to-be fall hunting load in a 22" marlin xl7 in 30-06 using H4831sc lit with a cci250 and the hornady interlock 180 SP (#3070) seated to 3.22" (seems I have a fairly short throat).

In my rifle I chrony'd 60 grains behind the 180 interlock 3070 and got 2600ish. Then I ran 62 grains and got 2700ish. This is what I am planning to stay with. Just shot a bunch today, still learning the rifle myself.

"I might try H-4350." Yeah, I tend to think I might do better with H4350 as well but I still have 2.5lbs of H4831sc so I'll continue to experiment with this.

One thing I have learned is that, at least the batch I have, a magnum primer is important for consistency. YMMV.

59.0 grains of H4831sc will give 2650-2700 fps in the 24" barrel of my Model 70. If you are interested in picking up a bit more speed, I have found that the 4350s are much better at that than is H4831 with 180s. Just my experience - nothing absolute about it.

IMR 4831 is what I decided was the berries years ago when I thought I needed to make 2700 with 180s in a seemingly slow barreled 30-06 I started with. It's a good load combination, but it does seem to cause a more "active" ignition than does the H version. Perhaps it reflects life changes, but I now find that 60.0 grains or a bit more of H4831 is a perfectly adequate, simple, safe, and effective recipe. (It's one of the memorized loads I use, kind of like the same bullet in the 300 Win with 25% more [75.0 grains] of H4831.) These recipes just seem to work well across a range of rifles.

I think 4350 might be a better choice. However I don't see anything wrong with what you've got going now. Lotsa stuff killed with a 180 going 2500fps.
I'm like one of the other posters. I had a "perfect" load for my '06 using 4350. Accurate!! And it fetched everything I sent it after. This was before every kid on the block had a Chrony so I used it for years before I found out just how pitiful and anemic that load was. After trying to squeeze an extra 100fps out of the rifle with several other powders, I ended up using the original load.
You might want to try another bullet. Seems that each manufacturer has their own idea of how big a .308 bullet should be.

I won't likely get to do my ladder test until Monday or Tuesday when I can shoot longer ranges at my father-in-law's farm. However, I did get to shoot the 60.0 grain H-4831 load again. It was running around 1.25" at 100 yards.

So far this is fine with me since it is the first load I've tried and while the barrel is floated, I haven't bedded the action yet. More results to follow....

My .30/06 likes 60 grains of the 4350's but the majority of others like around 58 grains for 2800fps. Accuracy is always good with many rifles shooting regular 3 shot .5-.7MOA from a cold barrel.

JW

So it took me a while to get at it again but I finally have more information. Through ladder testing on Sunday at 400 yards I came up with the most potentially most accurate load being 61.9 grains. I shot again last night and found this load to be grouping around 1" at 100 yards and velocity was at 2615 fps.

Right now, I would be satisfied except for one thought. While I know there's nothing wrong with with a 180 grain .30 calibre at 2600 fps for most uses I can't help but thinking that burning almost 62 grains of powder to get there makes this a really inefficient .308 Winchester. 1" groups with a .308 are really routine and my last .308 (a 20" barrelled Model Seven) got 2580 fps with a 180 grain bullet.

Anyway, now that I'm done with my little efficiency rant, I'm going to load some 180 grain Partitions and try those before the day is over.

I would not use any 4831 in a .30/06. I never saw it outperform the better balances 4350's. The case simply isn't large enough for the bore diameter in my opinion.

I have read contrary evidence for years but have never been able to achieve it in any .30/06 regardless of bullet weight.

JW

I have spent a lot of time at the range working out loads for my 30-06. With a 180 grn. pill the most accurate, .33@100yds has been H-4350 max. book load. Buckfever1

Partitions went 1.25" at 100 yards with a velocity of 2636 fps.

Wait until you try the Hornady 180gn BT. It is probably the best I have tried and there have been many, many, .5 MOA 3 shoters over the years. When they perform like that with 5 shots, then you really have something.

JW

My Tikka using 60 gr of H4831sc and 180 partitions is giving me just around and inch - sometimes just under, sometimes just over, and I am clocking just over 2750 out of a 22" tube. Most of the moose I shoot can't tell the difference between a 168 @ 2900 and a 180 @ 2750, though most of them die trying to find out.

Aussie Gun Writer.I have a whole pile of elk and deer antlers and a mess of cow elk teeth ,all taken with an .06 and H4831 with either 180 gr to 220 gr bullets .Elk don't read all that ballistic gack and die when hit with these combinations

I load 55 gr of the IMR version w/ a Hornady RN Interlock for use through my Smith-Corona-built Springfield 03-A3 at a ludicrously slow 2500-something and the buck I shot last fall had nothing bad to say about the combination.

I like what another poster said... "I thought it was a good load, and then the chrono said it sucked..."

Animals falling dead is all that matters. If you like the thought of more speed I certainly can't fault you there, but when you get off the bench and shoot reactive targets out to 300 yards or so its likely that whatever advantage velocity-wise you gain won't be noticed.

Just my $.02...

I am not surprised. Killed a few things myself with some pretty bad cartridges, expecially ones not recommended by others. I find it best to use what you like, pass the info on if someone asks, and not worry too much if they don't listen. All perfectly normal.

JW

The 4831s are great for more over-bore (case powder capacity over bullet diameter) cartridges like the .270 Win. & the .300 Win. Mag. but the 4350s are better in the '06.
You just can't get enough of the 4831s in an '06 case. Rather than compress the crap out of a powder I'll go to a faster powder & the 4350s are as in general faster than the 4831s.

As mentioned above the 4350's work very well with the 180's in the /06. I use a top load of H-4350/Win WLRM (mag)primer under a 180 Accubond in Remington nickeled brass for a chronographed 2735 out of a 22" M700. I use H-4350 for its insensitivity to temp changes. OTH you still can't sneeze at a 180 at 2600 fps.

I get great groups 180gr eTip with 52grs of IMR4350. That doesn't sound like a lot of powder but that bullet has a very long bearing surface and I seat them to 3.255. YMMV

Try 4350. 55 grains should be the sweet spot with a 180-grain bullet. 57 grains is about right for most 165's.


Okie John

I tried some H4831 today under 180 Nosler Partitions in a 24", SS M70. Here are the results:

60.0, 2786, 1.86"
61.0, 2805, 2.58"
62.0, 2848, 1.45"

I got plenty of velocity but not so much on the accuracy. I'll try tweaking around 62.0 a bit to see if I can get it closer to an inch.

I figure the list of what you can't do with that load would be a heckuva lot shorter that what you can do with that load.

I would shoot the next set of loads at 200 yards just for grins. I have often found better accuracy beyond 150 yards, the distance at which parallex is corrected for in many scopes. Beyond seems better than in front of that distance and sometimes bullets have settled down more at 200 and beyond.

This thread is almost a month old..

however I was posting loads on another forum and was getting flamed all over the place by the naythesayer and chicken little crowds...

one guy came on and supported what I had to say...so he got flamed and was asked did he have access to pressure equipment to back up his statement, you can't get enough H 4831 in an 06 case to get into pressure problems...

so he responded, yes I do have access to pressure equipment to back that up and please feel free to call me with any questions..

I noticed it had a 541 area code here in Oregon, so I called the guy up.. Hello Nosler Bullets was what the receptionist answered the phone as...

a few other guys evidently called it up also, as the flaming stopped ASAP.. and it was on page 3 and 4 in about 24 hours..

I've seen 60 grain loads with a 180 grain bullet, listed in the 46,000 CUP range...in several manuals that will actually list pressure...

well I worked it up slowly to 65 grains with a 180 grain bullet...

that was using the SC version.. and also one had to crimp the bullet from the powder slowly pushing the bullet out of the case..

accuracy was excellent in all of my 06s.. as I tested in multiple times in each...case life was just fine.. ran a batch 10 reloads and primer pockets were tight on the 11th reloads..

velocity was impressive also...

if anyone does follow that up tho, work up.. as you know all rifles are an entity unto themselves...

and remember you'll have to crimp it, to keep the bullet in the case...

but as the ballistician at Nosler verified.. I don't think you can get enough H 4831 SC in an 06 case to over pressurize it..

I used to shoot a load with the 180 Hornady and H4831, crimped at the cannelure (Lee FCD). Shot lights out.

H-4831, IMR-4831 and IMR-4350 has always been very reliable for all hunting loads and bullet weights in the 30-06.

For the last twenty years I have loaded H-4831 and then H-4831SC with 60 grains under a Nosler 180 grain Partition bullet. This is with Federal 210 primers and R/P nickel brass. This is for an 03A1 Springfield with the original 24" 4 groove barrel. Chronoed velocity has been consistently from 2680 to 2720 fps, accuracy from 1 1/4 to 1 3/4" five shot groups. This is the only load in this rifle I use for both deer and elk, or any other critter in season I run across.