When should you size for neck & full ? What are your opinions?

I FL size any semi auto, pump, lever, or double rifle anything.

Neck size for a slight crush on closing for the bolt rifles, both hunting and target.

Gunner

I F/L size all brass for hunting rifles, to insure best feeding.
I neck size for target rifles where most of the rounds are loaded singly.

Or PFLR (Partial Full Length Resizing) Uses a FL die, but the process only "bumps" the shoulder back and depending on what works best, only slightly squeezes the body.

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Casey

A Forster Bushing/Bump Die gives you the best of both. It allows you to resize the neck or a portion of the neck, and at the same time bump the shoulder back. I've done 5 reloads of the same cases this way and no hint of needing a full resize. It also allows you to do away with the expander ball and stop working your brass so much. Will let it go longer until it needs to be annealed or the brass splits.

I strictly do bolt actions.. and I neck size every time I can, and allow the bolt to close smoothly... easier on brass stretching out its life.. and also more accurate loads..

I use a body die where ever possible when the shoulder needs bumped back..

I also anneal brass after every 4th shot..

I use a F/L die and do the PFLR thing. I do not bump the shoulders back and, in fact, only resize about 75-80 percent of the neck. After a couple of firings, this forms a small doughnut around the neck at the junction with the shoulder. I feel that helps to align the cartridge in the chamber. After several reloadings, I usually need to F/L resize the brass and start over.
My hunting ammo is usually 1X and I cycle every round through the rifle to ensure that it will work flawlessly before I go hunting.

I neck size for all of my arms. Don't own any semiautos though.

Neck size with Lee Collet Dies whenever possible.

Bump the shoulder back a tiny bit with a FL die when required.

i used to neck size everything(talking bolt actions) but after a few loading things get a bit tight and bolt gets harder to close i didn't mind but the wife ate my ass about it! so now any more i shoulder bump all hunting ammo. but still neck size match stuff for about 3-4 loadings than shoulder bump,trim start over

I do the same thing, and the "doughnut" becomes the false shoulder thats being asked about on the other thread.
BD

Fully size the neck......

Thank me later.....

I don't know about a false shoulder but I think of it as support to better center the cartridge in the chamber as the doughnut actually fits in the neck portion of the chamber.

Have you ever checked the runout between the sized and unsized portions of the neck?

I do the partial full-length sizing for bolts also. I have a .050" shim that I use to set the die. That helps me with consistency in subsequent loadings.

Levers, pumps, and autos get full length sizing, trying for .0015" room at the shoulder to minimize stretch and allow smooth feeding.

I agree wholeheartedly, it is a better support. The reason I consider it a "false shoulder" is because it is essentially shouldering in the lead of the neck and not resting on its actual shoulder. To my knowledge there isn't a way to create a second shoulder on the existing shoulder proper nor am I aware of any cartridges that have twin shoulders or a sizing die made to do so. The sizing die either doesn't contact the actual shoulder or it does and may subsequently bump the shoulder back.
Depending on your viewpoint another possible benefit to the sizing method you describe is the cartridge isn't resting on the bottom of chamber when discharged. I've heard that brass doesn't expand equally around its entirety when resting on the chamber bottom and might cause brass to be slightly out of round after having been fired. I can't substantiate that but, someone else might be able to and weigh in on this also.
It's food for thought.

I have never checked the runout on the unsized portion of the neck but recently I resized 50 .223 cases using my method and of the 50, I only had 7 that exceeded .002 on the sized portion of the neck. The most distorted one measured .007".
As Blackdog sez,I would think that regardless of the runout of the doughnut, it would be a better deal as it helps to reduce cartridge cant in the chamber.
Also, since the doughnut helps to center the cartridge, it has the same effect as the Bench Resters jamming their bullet into the lands with none of the perils regarding pressure or pulled bullets.

FYI, I reloaded those .223 cartridges using a Lee Press.

PFL, sizing just enough neck to consistently hold the bullet and only bumping the shoulder enough to chamber with a little resistance.

PFL as well when using brass in the same gun. FL when sizing brass to a new gun. Learned my lesson after having to pull 100 7mm mag bullets to bump the shoulder back a couple thousandths after doing an "almost" FL resizing and the bolt not closing.

Stillbeeman,
Regarding chamber/cartridge canting, I've thought about experimenting with this by taking a few new brass cases, running a larger expanding ball through, PFL the cases, load and shoot and comparing the runout of these to once fired factory loaded brass. I can see where there may be a benefit to this experiment if you are loading new cases for a belted round. I have had rifle chambers that were a bit generous in dimension in a belted round and the factory loaded case expanded significantly.
I've also been wondering that if the new brass case is sized and loaded as mentioned, centered on an axis to the bore and is able to expand equally around its entire width, that it might possibly reduce the case body splitting caused by metal fatigue and may also have an increased case life compared to cases that were factory loaded to begin with and then resized several times.
Again, more food for thought.

PFLR for some bolt rifles, neck for others. FL for levers, autos, or pumps. My favorite combo for bolt rifles is the Lee Collets with a Redding body die to bump the shoulder when the cases get snug. Neck sizing works just fine for hunting rigs, but as mentioned, chamber your cases for your hunting rigs prior to going hunting.

I also think neck sizing is ok for hunting. Chambering every round is a good idea. Has anyone ever heard of someone getting a round stuck from dirt because of not FL resizing? I mean if you have that much dirt in the chamber I think it would stick one that has been FL sized also.

The only thing I can think of that would be a problem is if your chamber was out of round to begin with. If the concentricity of the fired case body is good, there shouldn't be any problem.

Having said that, if you had a slight run out on the case body, that would probably be taken care of by FL resizing. I have a rifle that has .004 runout at the base of the chamber that makes it oval. Even FL resizing will not get it to chamber, but if you rotate it to the right position, it will drop in.

I a little different...


I FL size any semi auto, pump, lever, or double rifle...

and anything for hunting.

well really I only FL resize

That might have some interesting results. I don't do much of anything to my brass until it has been fire formed to the rifle it will be used in but if your method works, it could save quite a bit of wear and tear as well as powder and bullets.

Does neck sizing work with Weatherby chamberings also with all the freebore?

yes just be sure you have inside the neck lubed good too i seem to sometimes have trouble "pulling" the shoulder foward (lenghten)
in the weatherby cal. guess it is the radius shoulder ? or maybe just me

Freebore shouldn't have anything to do with it.

I have found Wby/Norma brass to be very soft, which could be your problem "pulling" the shoulder fwd. The radius probably doesn't help. It's so soft you can bend the neck with your thumb at times.

I'll fiddle with it and post back my results
Thanks for your thoughts, BD

I've experienced case lengthening in the resizing process also. I'm also somewhat OCD with "Roy" cases and Norma brass. What has helped me at times is I use a bronze bore brush of the appropriate bore diameter and brush the inside of the necks first, roll them across the lube pad, then I dip the necks in a dry lube, then into the sizing die. The fly in the ointment of PFL sizing is that eventually, depending on your rifle, the case, and the hardness of the brass is that you will have to fiddle with resetting the sizer down enough for the cases to chamber. I have had 2-3 firings in some calibers before having to do this, 5-6 in others. IME every rifle chamber and make of brass has been different, and setting the sizer down or up has been adjusted accordingly.
At todays prices of premium factory fodder, the extra work seems, at least to me miniscule, but Hell, I enjoy doing it anyway
I guess reloaders are twice paid

FWIW, when I set up a F/L die, I set it up to full length resize the case, including the cam over needed to completely F/L resize. Then I make a flat washer out of flat stock that will fit around the body of the die. I put that between the lock ring on the die and the top of the press. Dime or nickel thickness is about right. With that in place, I am PFLRing the brass. When it becomes hard to chamber, I remove the washer so's I can F/L the brass. This keeps me from having to keep adjusting the die (and stripping out those little, bitty set screws).

I adjust my FL die every time I use it, and I never use the set screws. I FL size the brass, but barely.

Alot of BR shooters only size a portion of the neck.

A lot of competition shooters full length size, just barely, every time too.

you are both correct neck size or shoulder bump which can be done by carefully adjusting fl. dies with the help of horn. head space gauges or simialer if you neck size only sooner or later the shoulder will get too long to close the bolt on with out way too much effort that wouyld be when you want to "bump" the shoulder

Why is that?? And how do you do it w/o using the set screws?

Even with the same set of brass and the die set the same, it won't necessarily size to the same dimension every time. And I like to bump the shoulders just right, so I adjust to get it that way.

When I get the die set like I want it, I run in a piece of brass, leave the ram at the top of the stroke, and tighten the lock ring against the top of the press.

Pretty much what everyone has noted above on NS vs FL vs PFLR. I'll add that I have never successfully NS or PFLR a 270 and 300 WSM's. For the best performance I FL size those cases each and every time.

HaYen

Hmmmm, don't see why that wouldn't work. That's when having a couple of dummy rounds set up to use to determine the sizing. Have you never had the die "float" up or down while you were reloading?

The die is under upward pressure when I tighten the lock ring. I give it a little kiss with a big wrench. When the ram comes down, the die is tight into the press. Haven't had one move yet.

Great Idea !!! what flatstock are you using? I'd like to give this a try, seems to me all you need are maybe a couple and you're good to go.

Like stillbeeman said...I purchased flat washers from a local Case-IH tractor dealer parts department. 2 1/4" outside, 11/16" bolt hole size. Had a local machine shop machine the washers to .001 surface tolerance and 4 or 5 smaller thickness.

@StillBeeMan and MathMan I'll have to try that. Thank you.

HaYen

There are as many theories as to which is "better" as there are reloaders and just as many ways of doing it...bottom line is "whatever" works for you is good for you and maybe not so good for someone else.

I use Redding Comp shell holders or grind the bottom of my dies or set headspace correctly in the rifles I build in the first place...and Savage nut system solves that problem fairly well...I even used barrel nuts on a couple of Rem's and Rugers and left off the nut on as many Savages...just to see...but the easiest and quickest is to use the comp shell holders or grind and be within 0.002" shoulder setback which is plenty for all except maybe competition. I DON'T partial or neck size only for ANY of my rifles...for my purposes both of those methods are unacceptable.

Part and parcel of this game is "playing around" with different "things"...bullet seating, sizing, powder and other components, dingle-dangles for our shooters, different types of crowns, barrel lengths, and all the rest.

I don't think there is any really "right/wrong", "best/worst" etc, just different levels of subjectivity and requirements.

Try'em all.

Luck