I read on another forum where a guy was saving money on Weatherby brass by running .25-06 brass into his .240 Weatherby sizing die. Since the '06 case body is slightly larger than the Weatherby, he actually was forming a faux belt on the .25-06 brass. The rim sizes of the two cartridges are identical. The shoulders are close. In my view, this thing just might work and save a few coins to boot.

Has anyone else tried this, and do you do it routinely? I worry about the concentricity of the formed cases; are they straight? Is case life acceptable? What about case separation issues just forward of the web? And most importantly, does the re-formed brass shoot as accurately as the proper-headstamped stuff?

If you can afford a Weatherby, you can afford the correct brass.
It might work or it might blow up the rifle. Reminds me of the photo of the guy who shot war surplus 303 British ammo in his Krag because it was cheap.
Eventually it came apart, only the bolt handle kept the shooter from having a third eye socket.
I'll help you out. Swap your Mk V 240 even up for a NIB Marlin XL in 25-06.

Collectively retarded post, topped off by a ridiculous trade offer. Really great job!

To the OP, I'd ask one of the gunwriters around here (Mule Deer) and ask them to weigh in on it.

Thank you, Orson, for that Mazda Minute. Now back to our regular programming.....

Stay with regular 240 weatherby brass dude.

No I have not done it.

But I have read (wish I could name the source, so you could check it) that it is easy to form 240 Wby from 30-06. 25-06 would be a much better place to start.

I can not name a single reason not to use 25-06 to make your cases. I'd love to hear why not from a knowledgeable reloader/wildcatter.

Use lots of lube when forming!

I haven't tried it, but I bet I can tell you where a problem will arise.

Dies for belted magnums usually don't size the case much, if at all, right at the transition from the belt to the main body. So a case formed this way from 25-06 to 240 Wby. is very likely not going to chamber without difficulty.

I may be all wrong, but there's my prediction.

Where do you shoot at? I just want to know so I can avoid being there when you try this out. Not a snowball's chance in hell is it worth saving money on something like this. I believe it was quoted already, if you can afford the rifle, you can afford the rifle. This is a completely different ballpark from turning .308 Win brass into .260 Rem. brass to save a few bucks.

Even If you could form the belt you would use up a lot of brass from the case head and the case would separate in a short time if not the first time you fired it. I have a Semi-Custom LH Ruger 77 in 240 Wby and wouldn't even consider this. 240 Wby brass isn't all that hard to come by , just expensive.

If one values his time and rifle, I too would suggest using the proper brass to begin with. Maybe rechamber and do a 24-06.

Dirtfarmer has played with this a little bit and observed the results Mathman predicts. IIRC, Dirtfarmer decided it could be done but not without forming dies, whch, I believe, he has on order. Maybe he'll chime in.

John

Actually, I don't own a .240 Weatherby at all. Nor do I have any itch to own one. I read about this on another forum and had one of those "Oh WOW, I'm not believing that!" moments. So, I researched some data on the case dimensions of both cartridges, and it does APPEAR to be possible.

My question is of casual interest only. This guy on the other forum can't be the only person to have tried this, can he?

Hondo,

Being the kind of guy who won't take no for an answer, I contacted CH4D and got a .240 Wby case sizing die. It uses a shell holder without the slot, essentially a flat platform to push the case into the die. A rod is used to tap the case out. It take a lot of pressure to swage a 25-06 case into a .240 case, as the belt is formed by squeezing the case body. There is usually a ring of sheered brass to be pealed off the newly formed belt. The process doesn't fully form the shoulder and fire forming is needed to complete the new case. These cases chamber easily in my rifle, as compared to the cases I tried to make using a .240 Wby FL sizing die.

Looks good so far. I haven't loaded or shot any yet, but will post photos of the whole process when I get it completed.

Whether it's worth all the effort. I'll report, you decide...

DF

Other than the lack of a belt?

Man, do not dik around. Get some WBY brass.

I did try reforming .25-06 dies with standard Redding FL length dies, and they wouldn't chamber. Decided it wasn't worth it to go to custom dies.

I eventually sold my Mark V Ultra Lightweight .240, not because I didn't like it or it didn't shoot well, but because I'd had my fun and experience with it. It was VERY accurate, flat-shooting and pleasant to shoot, and if somebody wants the ultimate American factory 6mm, it's got a lot to recommend it, including top-quality brass. It ain't a prairie dog rifle, so 100 cases should last anybody a long time for coyote-to-big game hunting.

John,

The CH4D die is in the $70 range. If one takes $.50 W/W .25-06 brass and makes $1.50 .240 Wby brass, it won't take but 70+ cases to clear the die. That's the plus.

The down side is the extra work and time needed to make it happen. The .240 case, evidently, has less taper than the .25-06 and the shoulders aren't fully formed by the sizing process. These cases will need to be fired to fully expand.

The new belt looks pretty good and with new brass, I don't see any problems with case wall or web area weakness as a result of the process.

DF

Why bother with the belt at all ? Just neck down 270 WCF enough to form a false shoulder for the case to headspace on and fireform them. Once done the case will headpace on the shoulder (as all rimless cases should, belted or not). As the belt serves no purpose in extraction and is well into the solid portion of the case, there is no issue with head expansion.
As long as you don't push the shoulder back in future reloadings, you should have no problems.
I'd still but the WB brass. For a rifle with a 1500 round barrel life $1.50 a case is cheap.

Once you size a 25-06 (or .270) case down to .240 Wby. body diameter, you'll have a "belt", no way around it. Headspace will be on the shoulder, not the belt, anyway.

I agree on the practicality of this exercise. One doesn't blow through a lot of brass with this type rifle, as JB pointed out, and good brass is available, although expensive.

I have re-sized 7mm RM brass into .257 Wby. brass without much problem and was wanting to see how well this one would work. It's harder, IMHO, than the .257 Wby conversion, but can be done.

DF

Maybe because it's the belt on a 240 Wby. that's 30-06 case head size. The 240's body is smaller.

DF, you beat me to it.

Yeah, there's no way NOT to have a belt, as you pointed out. It seems that .240 Wby. FL sizing dies like JB and I initially tried, don't size the case far enough. The belt from those dies is too long to chamber. The CH4D die squeezes the case body down far enough so that the "belt" is short enough to chamber. That sizing gets pretty close to the case web and I don't think the std. FL dies can quite get there. Even with a good coat of Imperial Die Wax, some serious "elbow grease", using a heavy, compound leverage press is needed to get it done.

DF

Like a Redding Ultra Mag?

Seems I remember reading something about actually cracking std. FL sizing dies. I can see how such a sizing step would put a lot of stress on a die not made for that task. The CH4D die is pretty stout and seems up to the job. Don't try this if you don't have a Rockchucker, Redding Big Boss or equivalent press.

DF

Ken Howell notes (in his excellent Designing and Forming Custom Cartridges) pretty much the same thing:

"This case definately needs the RCBS belt-forming die to swage a belt into .25-06, .270, .280, or .30-06 brass, and form dies."

My guess is that the two dies Mr. Howell mentions probably cost ~ $150 dollars. .240 Roy brass is something like $2 per hull, right? So if you are wanting more than 75 cases, then the dies and forming process pans out economically.

Unless I just had to have a 240 for some reason, I'd go 6mm-06 and dispense with the belt.

The CH4D die is in the $70+ range. I think .240 Wby cases are more like $1.50. I don't plan on buying any more Norma/Wby .240 Wby. brass. All of my future .240 Wby. cases will have W/W .25-06 on the headstamp.

Can't confirm, but I've read that W/W brass is harder than Norma/Wby. and the primer pockets last longer. That was more of a discussion with the 7mm RM to .257 Wby. conversions. I guess it depends on how hard one drives those rounds and the pressure needed to get there. I'm not one to push the envelope, so it probably won't be a major issue.

Just reporting...

DF

Can't argue with that.

With a "from the ground up" custom build, I'd have done just that. I got this rifle used and at a good price. So, I dance with the one what brung me to the party...

DF

I read that during the development of this round, Roy Weatherby had a die made, probably a lot like this one, to size '06 cases to create the belt. He went with the '06 head size for obvious reasons and the final SAAMI .240 case dimensions reflect just how much set back the case body needed to create a belt that looked like the rest of the Wby. family.

The .257 Wby, with the powders available at that time, was considered somewhat "overbore", what ever that term actually means. It appears to me that with his new 6mm round, he wanted a smaller case and the '06 was the logical answer.

IMHO, this was purely a cosmetic ploy so that the new round would look like the rest of the Wby. family and not a "redheaded stepchild". For Roy, belts were his trademark, whether needed or not! And, it's common knowledge that one can't use the word, "magnum" without the round having a belt...

The .240 Wby. is a squeezed down 6mm-06 with slightly less powder capacity, thanks to the "squeezing". Other than proprietary marketing, I see so purpose served by the belt, other than to sell super expensive brass. Ole Roy wasn't a fool...

IMHO, of course.

DF

Thanks to all who replied to my post. Very interesting stuff, for sure.

I guess it is no surprise that some folks will simply tell you to use your 223 or 30-06. The practicality of such is tremendous. Then again, what do you learn and how does that sustain one's appetite for loonyism? Like casting bullets or handloading itself, a lot of the fun is in the process. If you can already shoot reasonably well, it really makes little fiscal sense to handload since a mere handful of cartridges are going to last a long, long time in bringing home the bacon. (Practice with your 22s, for Pete's sake, if practice you must!) That reminds me, I need to get to work making prepping cases for my 22-7.62x39 PPC Ruger Mini-22/30 Rifle. The thing is far superior to the Mini-14.

Start with .280 Rem brass and the shoulder will be fully formed when it comes out of the forming die. Neck to .25 cal as an intermediate step.

mathman,

You can also just go .25-06 and dispense with the belt--though you won't be shooting those magical .243-diameter bullets.

I always enjoyed George Nonte's enthusiasm and explanations for simple case conversions like making Hornet cases out of .505 Gibbs cases with a little lathe work and running through a few different dies.

Dirtfarmer,

I appreciate your report. You gave all of us a lot of good information.

And you make me appreciate my 6mm-284 all the more.

Good info. Thanks.

Now, if I end up with .240 Wby. brass, headstamped .25-06 and .280 don't you think I'd eventually get confused...?

DF

10-4, that...!

DF

bea175

I know this is an old thread but I have wanted to ask you a question. Was your rifle originally a 240 or did it start as something else? I hav an older M77 in 270 that I want to change to a 240 WBY. Please feel free to add any info you have regarding this, it would be greatly appreciated.

Here are cell phone photos (not the best quality) of a factory Norma .240 Wby. case on the right, and one formed from a W/W .25-06 case on the left, using the CH4D die. The shoulder isn't fully filled out on the one made from the .25-06 case. The belt isn't quite as smooth as the factory round, but actually looks pretty good, IMHO, considering how it was made. New formed brass chambers without problem.

BTW, I found a good hunting load for my .240 Wby., HS Precision SPL. It's the 85 gr. NPT at around 3,500 fps with 50 gr. Big Game, Fed 210 primer. Mule Deer (JB) has written that NPT's sometime shoot better with faster powder. I had used 52.5 gr. Hunter (Barnes accuracy load) for .4" groups at a hundred with the 80 gr. TTSX. Big Game is faster burning than Hunter.

This load shot a 1/2" three shot group at 200 yds. yesterday at my deer camp range. That's the best group I've ever shot with this gun. A Nosler Partition is not the bullet I would predict to be the most accurate. With 10 twist this gun seems to favor bullets in the 80-95 gr. range, not so much, 100 gr.

DF

I wouldn't have thought of using Big Game, but obviously it works!

By the way, 100-grain Nosler Partitions in Weatherby factory loads regualrly shot in the 5/8" range in my rifle. The buys at Nosler tell me their test standards are the same for Partitions as any of their other bullets. I suspect one of the reasons some people don't get good accuracy out of Partitions is they don't expect it, so don't take the time to try different stuff, whether seating depth or different powders.

I'm hesitant to go that route. In my zeal to form .257 Wby cases from 7mm Rem Mag brass, I got into accuracy inconsistency problems, to the degree I abandoned the .257 Wby. and rebarreled my Mark V to a match chambered 7mm Rem Mag, #2 Brux at 24".

Safariman ended up with the take off .257 Wby. bbl. On relating this story, Mark said he had been there, done that. He told me that 7mm Rem Mag brass formed into .257 Wby. brass has excessive neck wall thickness and if the necks aren't turned, inconsistent accuracy results. He said that problem is eliminated by using .264 Win Mag brass. I turn 6.5 and .224 necks but am not looking for more neck turning if I can avoid it.

So, given that, I think the less forming, the better. Using .25-06 vs. .280 parent cases forming the .240 Wby. may well be similar to using .264 WM vs. 7mm RM, forming the .257 Wby. .240 neck wall thickness looks OK with brass formed from .25-06.

YMMV, let me know.

DF

I was surprised at the group, not expecting it. It's only a three shot, but I'll shoot some more to make sure it's not a fluke.

I've got good results with the 90 gr. SSII's. .7" at a hundred. For now, I think I'm going to give the 85 gr. NPT's a run. I use a 250 yd. zero, and am approx. 1.5" hi at both 100 and 200 yds. At 300, 350 and 400 yds., I just have to remember 3", 6", and 12" drop, respectively. This combo produces 1,000 ft. pounds of energy out to 375 yds., so it's not an ultra long range deer load.

DF

That's really cool that you can form an expensive case from a cheap one like that! And even cooler than a belt can be formed! I'd like to see a video or some pics of your forming die... this is just way cool.

Not much to video. You'd see a mid 60's quite handsome fellow, putting some serious arm muscle on a Redding Big Boss press as a .25-06 case is squeezed into a die, looking like most any other die. The "shell holder" has no case head slot and looks like a round, flat topped platform. Once the case if fully in the die, using max over the top cam action by the big press, the star of the film take a punch and a big hammer, and gently taps the new case out of the die with a few well placed blows. Transformation complete.

I could post photos of the die/shell holder set, but it's easier to go on the CH4D website and see their info. Better done layout than I could do.

Gotta be somewhat of a "hoss" to work the press. 96 pound weaklings need not apply. They need to just buy factory brass...

DF

CH4D doesn't have photos as I thought. So, I took these. You can see the "shell holder" and the punch. The very nice looking knock out punch they supplied was slightly oversize. I made me one from a large nail to use until I can get their's cut down.

Pretty simple, actually.

DF

Love the nail idea

A man's gotta do what a man's gotta do...

Talked with the guy at CH4D and I'm going to send the punch back for replacement. They're good folks and are there to help out any way they can.

In the mean time, the nail is king...

DF

You're right. Although I don't think Winchester would be overly thrilled to hear their brass referred to as "cheap", it is about 1/3rd the cost of the Roy version, either from Wby. or Norma. About 70 rounds of homemade .240 Wby. brass will pay for the die set.

That little belt has made ole Roy, and now son, Ed, some serious pocket change over the years. I guess everyone needs an annuity...

DF

This is an old Barnes load, using their 85 gr. XLC BT bullet with the blue coating. Those bullets could be driven faster due to the coating, but Barnes has discontinued them. With the 85 gr. NPT, there is no indication of pressure problems with this load. Most Big Game loads for the .240 Wby. are for lighter bullets. This load seems to work very well the 85 gr. NPT.

Maybe we're seeing the benefit of the Wby. freebore. Wasn't the concept for faster powders to function like slower powders, i.e. Roy Weatherby's use of 4350 in his big magnums? I know the .240 has less freebore than some of the others, however. Just thinking...

DF