I load for several 30-378's and have always used Retumbo. A friend of mine has had issues with the powder turning to dust after riding through the mountains on horseback and 4 wheelers. His gun shows no signs of pressure when he shoots fresh ammo, but on a recent elk hunt he could barely get the bolt open after the shot. This is likely due to the powder changing in burn rate due to increased surface area. What concerns me is that he said it only takes one weekend of hunting. He sent me a loaded round with this issue and I pulled it apart and the powder was definetly "crumbled". The load was 180 AB with 110grs of Retumbo and is slightly compressed. If anyone has another non temperature sensitive favorite powder that works for them please help me out. Also, maybe JB could help me out since he has worked with so many powders? T.S.

H1000 works great in the 30-378, might not be the ideal burn rate but then I dont know if there is an ideal burn rate for this round. RL25 and VVN170 would be a second choice to try.
A friend of mine swears by VVN24N41 but he shoots 210gr VLD's

btw Never found Retumbo to be my favorite powder in anything I tried it in

a good friend has one...when He got it, he asked what I'd suggest.. and from working with the 300 Win Mag, I suggested H 1000.. he tried that, RL 25, IMR 7828 and a few others...

he settled on H 1000 being the most accurate of all the ones he tried....

that's his deer rifle...he stepped up to a 338/378 for his elk rifle...but he also went with H 1000 with that one also..

funny choices, as the guy is about 5ft/6 inches tall.. and weighs about 110 lbs soaking wet...

but he must like big things.. his wife is 5 ft 9 and weighs about 350 lbs...

I am still concerned with H1000 because it is extruded. A ball powder would be a better choice, but I do not know of any of them that are not temperature sensitive, especially when things get really cold (hangfires). For me I will try H1000 since retumbo has not given the best accuracy for me and I don't have an issue with packing my ammo for hundreds of miles through rough terrain. My question was more for my friend so he doesn't end up with another sticky bolt or worse yet a blown case. Thanks and any other suggestions are appreciated. T.S.

retumbo

I have had a 30-378 since introduction and once retumbo was intro-ed I never used anything else. Never an issue
I do want to try N570 though.

Seafire, I know you live in Oregon but you just described my next door neighbor's

Get well up into the slowest powders. I run H870 in mine, but will have to switch to something else after I get through the next 300 rds.

I understand your concerns but completely disagree that a ball powder is a better choice.............just try it.

yeah, its kind of scary of how many of those combinations are around...

I am refering to powder degradation. A ball powder will not degrade as fast when "tumbled" in a closed case. I myself will try H1000, but I am still trying to solve my friends problem. I think I am going to do a simulation of his problem and use my case tumbler to measure degradation. Thanks, T.S.

Have you picked up a new batch of retumbo or h1000 lately? I say this cause over at Longrangehunting.com the guys over there are saying new lots of these powders are causing them to drop charges as much as 3 grains over past loadings. These guys shoot alot of big cased stuff and burn alot of powder so I trust them.

Sounds like you know your 30-378's. I have one in a sako and it has good freebore but yet 110gr ret over a 180 would be a hot load in my gun. One of my good loads is 104 ret over a 200 ab for 3190fps.
I'm just wondering if the powder degrading you are seeing is possibly somewhat normal (never heard of this before) and that the loads are really close to being on "the edge" to start with??

I will try reducing a bit, but the problem my friend has is degradation to the point where the granules turn to dust (10+%) and that is my main focus. The load 110gr is slightly compressed and I would have figured that would help hold it in place and not allow it to shake so much, but not the case. I will have to try lower loadings that are not compressed and see if they too degrade as fast as my current load. That is good to know about new batches because I just bought 3lbs of the same lot and it is new. It always makes one nervous touching off that much powder right in front of your face! Thanks, T.S.

I'm scratching my head about the problem. Military ammo loaded with extruded powder has been packed all over creation and used quite successfully thereafter.

I am too, but he sent me a picture of powder after he pulled a bullet from a round that he had carried over a season and it had a considerable amount of dust in it. I wouldn't have believed him without the picture, but it was definetly powdered. Maybe he bought a bad lot of Retumbo that was "soft". Almost all military powder is now ball or spherical and this is probably due to A. Better metering in automated machines B. (possibly) degradation of powder in case when transported for an extended period of time in rough terrain. T.S.

Might it be good to contact hodgdon and see what they say. Just haven't seen this complaint before.....it will be interesting to find the outcome.

Pardon the questions, but curious how many rounds he carries at
a time, and what in? Plastic slip-top box, or what?

And furthur, does he carry them in a hard box or anything directly
on the ATV rack? Just trying to understand and learn something
here. I have had a shotgun disabled by ATV once, roll pin in the
trigger group backed out just enough to tie up the action, so I know
their vibrations can do some odd stuff.

There are four rifles in our camp chambered for 30-378. All four shoot handloads based on H1000 topped with a Hornady 180gr. Can not recall the exact charge weight, so I won't mention any numbers.

This is odd that this issue shows up today, JB and I were just talking about it yesterday. The whole powder "break down" issue was discussed here on the Campfire before on whether or not, powder actually breaks down when you vibrate the loaded cases after reloading. I have always vibrated loaded cases to clean them to look new. I haven't witnessed any changes in the way ammunition worked as a result. I always figured from the time ammo was manufactured, shipped and then sold, it would have been vibrated more than what I was doing in my vibrator on the bench. JB could address that issue more from a professional standpoint, but it seems pretty unlikely.

The breakdown theory doesn't seem to affect World War II ammo and other surplus ammunition that has been around for decades, exposed to all sorts of handling and temperature changes, with no signs of pressure problems attributed to powder crumbling. It can also be argued that your friend did have hard bolt lifting, so there is something that caused that. Temperature when the rounds are fired will cause erratic pressures, and that could be the reason. In that case H-1000 Extreme could be the powder you would want for the 30-378 as it is more stable in various temperatures.


As far as accuracy goes, I couldn't beat IMR 7828 in my 30-378, but as I used it for hunting, and that could be in some real cold temperatures, I used H-1000 Extreme, Nosler 200 grain Accubonds and had good results. I did, however, sell the 30-378, as it was "too much gun" and went back to a 300 Weatherby and get 3200 FPS with a 180 grain bullet and it kills just fine...

I know that guy...

Retumbo is an "extreme" powder and I saw with my eyes the degradation of powder. I have tried tumbling loaded rounds and in a vibratory tumbler (6+ hours) I can not get the powder to break down like my friends did. I would have to say that my friend had a bad or soft batch of powder, otherwise I am still clueless. T.S.