In an effort not to highjack the 270 v/s 264 Mag thread, I've started a new thread with the hopes that "prairie goat", BobinNH, and the rest of the "Doolittle Gang" can come here and tell us all how to do the things that they have yet to do themselves. Like load a 7mm-08 with CFE223 and 120's for example.
"Prairie goat" is super smart and a [bleep] gun whisperer to boot. Hopefully he will be along shortly to make pressure predictions for all my loads from 1000 miles away. A human strain gauge w/ special gifts this guy....
Experimenters keep in mind that at no point in that thread or this one will you here me say 3300fps via a 22" 7mm-08 is safe! Only that I worked up to that and did not see pressure signs on my brass. Again for the record, I'm not using the 3300 fps load. As I stated, I'm shooting the published maximum for 120's and seeing 3200fps with absolutely no hint of excessive pressure.
For those who are reading this and thinking of trying CFE-223, start low and work up! Just because I saw no pressure indicators on my brass at 3300fps does not mean that you wont at 3000fps.
A few of the 270 boys got their feathers ruffled while expounding all the virtues of their beloved 270's over the .264 when I asked if a 7mm-08 burpin 120's @3200 via a SA and 22" tube pissed them off..... BobinNH will be along shortly to tell us that the 270 is vastly superior to the 7mm-08, and there is no substitute for case capacity, then in the same breath tell us that there is no difference between his beloved .270 and the .264 Win Mag....
In actuality the difference between the .270 and .264 is far greater than it is between the 270 and 7mm-08 scooting 120's. It's just what happens when you couple superior b.c.'s of the 6.5 and extra fps....In the end I could care less what people shoot. Seems the only measuring stick for knowledge around here these days is post count. With those knowing the least racing for the most with one liners and wise cracks. Very few posts of substance..... I miss the old days!
I really hate to get involved in an "I know more than you dumbshi+", internet battle. I always try to avoid them at all cost, yet that is somehow where I find myself on this one. I guess I just get tired of the "Doolittle Gang" telling people to shoot TTSX's when someone asks about B-tips v/s GK's or buy Kimber when someone asks for opinions on a Winchester. I can appreciate opinionated people, what I can't appreciate is azz clowns forcing their opinions on others over and over again.
I'm not going to sit here and claim to know everything there is to know about these subjects but I will sit here and tell you that CFE223 is damned fast with 120's in the 7mm-08......
Seems I'm not the only one.....
http://24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/6655245/Re_7mm_08_120_ttsx_and_cfe_223X-VERMINATOR
Are you going to be okay?
Lumping BobinNH into a title of "Doolittle Gang" is laughable IMO. He is without a doubt one of the good guys around here, not to mention one of the most knowledgeable, willing to help and BTDT members on the forum. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, by all means carry on.
I would suspect you are somewhere north of 70K PSI.
Warning, the following data is for educational purposes only:
Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Useable Case Capaci: 49.384 grain H2O = 3.206 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 70000 psi, or 482 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
14 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 106.9 51.1 3.31 3254 99.5 70000 10585 0.916 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter 116.1 54.6 3.54 3252 97.5 70000 10936 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP 116.0 52.2 3.39 3250 98.9 70000 10684 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 109.9 52.9 3.43 3248 96.7 70000 10904 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760 109.9 52.9 3.43 3248 96.7 70000 10904 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 112.7 52.4 3.40 3248 98.8 70000 10815 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot BigGame 108.5 51.0 3.30 3237 99.6 70000 10406 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 120.0 52.3 3.39 3236 98.9 69165 10627 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 120.0 57.0 3.69 3230 95.1 64644 11642 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 105.1 47.8 3.10 3227 99.7 70000 10354 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 105.8 48.2 3.12 3214 99.5 70000 10273 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B 106.4 48.4 3.14 3213 99.7 70000 10217 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2 99.9 49.7 3.22 3210 100.0 70000 10081 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 120.0 54.6 3.54 3209 94.3 68855 10879 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748 97.5 47.8 3.10 3209 100.0 70000 9754 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old 107.7 49.6 3.21 3207 99.9 70000 10060 0.945 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 119.0 53.9 3.49 3206 94.0 70000 10751 0.920 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895 102.2 46.5 3.02 3199 99.9 70000 10012 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031 106.0 45.1 2.92 3199 100.0 70000 9286 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 114.0 53.6 3.47 3195 94.2 70000 10576 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206H 102.5 46.7 3.02 3194 99.7 70000 10042 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320 107.7 48.2 3.12 3192 99.6 70000 9879 0.925 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380 106.7 49.6 3.22 3192 98.6 70000 10256 0.940 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 120.0 56.1 3.64 3188 91.2 67734 11047 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064 113.2 48.2 3.12 3182 100.0 70000 9469 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2520 102.5 48.1 3.12 3180 100.0 70000 9459 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 120.0 52.3 3.39 3180 98.7 66189 10371 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot TAC 96.8 47.2 3.06 3177 100.0 70000 9681 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Lumping BobinNH into a title of "Doolittle Gang" is laughable IMO. He is without a doubt one of the good guys around here, not to mention one of the most knowledgeable, willing to help and BTDT members on the forum. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, by all means carry on.
Ya, I would usually agree but his unwillingness to concede when it comes to his beloved .270 is pretty silly........
X-VERMINATOR
I would suspect you are somewhere north of 70K PSI.
Warning, the following data is for educational purposes only:
Cartridge : 7 mm-08 Rem.
Bullet : .284, 120, Nosler BalTip 28120
Useable Case Capaci: 49.384 grain H2O = 3.206 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 2.800 inch = 71.12 mm
Barrel Length : 22.0 inch = 558.8 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 70000 psi, or 482 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
14 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-17 106.9 51.1 3.31 3254 99.5 70000 10585 0.916 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot Hunter 116.1 54.6 3.54 3252 97.5 70000 10936 0.922 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma URP 116.0 52.2 3.39 3250 98.9 70000 10684 0.926 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H414 109.9 52.9 3.43 3248 96.7 70000 10904 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 760 109.9 52.9 3.43 3248 96.7 70000 10904 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Vihtavuori N550 112.7 52.4 3.40 3248 98.8 70000 10815 0.931 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot BigGame 108.5 51.0 3.30 3237 99.6 70000 10406 0.927 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4350 120.0 52.3 3.39 3236 98.9 69165 10627 0.941 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma MRP 120.0 57.0 3.69 3230 95.1 64644 11642 0.947 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4895 105.1 47.8 3.10 3227 99.7 70000 10354 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-15 105.8 48.2 3.12 3214 99.5 70000 10273 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203B 106.4 48.4 3.14 3213 99.7 70000 10217 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon BL-C2 99.9 49.7 3.22 3210 100.0 70000 10081 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Alliant Reloder-19 120.0 54.6 3.54 3209 94.3 68855 10879 0.929 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Winchester 748 97.5 47.8 3.10 3209 100.0 70000 9754 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 203 old 107.7 49.6 3.21 3207 99.9 70000 10060 0.945 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2209 119.0 53.9 3.49 3206 94.0 70000 10751 0.920 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H4895 102.2 46.5 3.02 3199 99.9 70000 10012 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 3031 106.0 45.1 2.92 3199 100.0 70000 9286 0.936 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Norma 204 114.0 53.6 3.47 3195 94.2 70000 10576 0.924 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
ADI AR 2206H 102.5 46.7 3.02 3194 99.7 70000 10042 0.938 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4320 107.7 48.2 3.12 3192 99.6 70000 9879 0.925 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Hodgdon H380 106.7 49.6 3.22 3192 98.6 70000 10256 0.940 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 7828 SSC 120.0 56.1 3.64 3188 91.2 67734 11047 0.932 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 4064 113.2 48.2 3.12 3182 100.0 70000 9469 0.962 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Accurate 2520 102.5 48.1 3.12 3180 100.0 70000 9459 0.948 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
IMR 4831 120.0 52.3 3.39 3180 98.7 66189 10371 0.955 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
Ramshot TAC 96.8 47.2 3.06 3177 100.0 70000 9681 0.937 !DANGEROUS LOAD-DO NOT USE!
You mean for the 3300fps load that I'm not shooting or the 3200...? I did not see CFE223 in there, did I miss it?
Tanner, your well on your way to knowing it all!
X-VERMINATOR
70K was my thinking for 3200 out of that short barrel.
You are correct that cfe223 is not in my QL data. Being a ball powder with "military tech" I suspect it's close to either the new wc844, or wc846. WC846 is close to blc(2), and the 844 it's warmer twin.
Bl-C2 is estimated to produce your velocity around 70k, but if cfe2223 is close to WC844, you could be significantly above that.
That my best WAG. I'll be interested to see how other opinions vary.
Someone should let Hodgdon know, I guess!
X-VERMINATOR
I'll be interested to see how other opinions vary.
It will go just like things did when Lil' Gun, RL-17, and Retumbo came out........
X-VERMINATOR
With a 26" barrel you could probably do it under 65K, but with that short 22" barrel, I would expect you are close to 70K.
Appreciate your willingness to help but I seriously doubt it's 70k....The load is 49.5 gr and is what Hodgdon lists as their maximum and they saw 3150.. I'm betting I'm in the same ballpark pressure wise as they were...
This powder simply hauls ass with 120's in the 7mm-08. Again much like when Lil' Gun, RL-17, and Retumbo hit the shelves, plenty of people ridiculed others on the velocities they saw yet the "experts" had never loaded these powders themselves. These are the folks that I call the "Doolittle Gang". I guess it's easier to play "expert" than it is to go buy a pound, load it up and come to your own conclusions.
X-VERMINATOR
You very well could be right. In some applications, it could just plain be better then the old powders. After all, the WC844/846 series of powders are early 1960's technology. It's not a far stretch to imagine the powder makers learned something in the last 50 years.
I'm getting low on my 844/846....might have to try a pound in a few rifles.
I am presently shooting 270 more than most things. Definitely a 7-08 fan too though with a few mates that shoot them to good effect.
Fact is, if I intended only to shoot bullets in the 120 grain range I would choose the 7 in a heartbeat, and I agree there isn't much in it when shooting bullets of that weight. Nosler makes a good bullet for the purpose too which makes it even more attractive.
I shoot 150 grainers mostly in my 270 though, and from what we've seen the 270 punches them out faster, and they seem to hit "harder" (impossible to quantify - its a visceral thing) than the 7-08 with bullets of that weight.
I load the 270 with 150 grainers to 2950fps. A bit like some here I developed loads that went well over 3000fps but settled on a nice comfy load at 2950. I actually think a 7-08 could get 150s to 3000 as well, but I think it would be breathing real hard to do it. QL would be illustrative but I don't have it.
So while I could be called a 270-man (that doesn't make me gay, does it?), for light bullets I would need to concede there's little in it. Enough to piss me off? No not really. Aahhh, maybe a little when my mates quote all that data!
A run on QL of both, running say a 120g SST in the 270 and the 120 BT in the 7-08 at equal pressure in the same barrel lengths would dare I say it be a worthwhile exercise.
We can't get CFE here, which is a shame. Probably of no value to me but those shooting a lot of other cartridges would sure like to try it. You are truly spoiled in the US for choice.
Kind Regards,
- Bob
x....you should really go back and read my comments on the 264 and 270 more carefully
By that did I mean no elk hit at 400-500 yards will know the difference between a 270 and a 264
Yes that is exactly what I meant.
You seem to be qualifying your response on the 7/08 120....I recall you asking me out of the blue if I am annoyed by the the 120 gr 7/08 doing 3300 fps loads you talked about....the answer is of course.....no. I am not annoyed at all because as I said I doubt you can get those velocities at acceptable pressure.You seem to be agreeing with me.
As to the DOLITTLE nomenclature........there are plenty of people on here with more experience and knowledge than I have...You may be one of them....I don't know your age nor your level of involvement in hunting and shooting spanning 40 plus years.
But I do know that if you have been lucky enough to own as many rifles,get in as much hunting,shooting,and hand loading as I have been fortunate enough to do,then I am happy for you
Please be careful with that 7/08....I don't want to see anyone get hurt.
Here's my take on the matter. Folks mention that you are at the top end or above generally considered safe pressure levels. They do this by reading published data, relating their own experiences with the 7mm-08 (though not with this powder), and general knowledge of reloading and pressure. Your proof that you are still safe is that your brass shows no outward signs of pressure. It's generally known that brass often will not show pressure until WELL over 65k. Am I off on anything here?
I've loaded rounds to the gills plenty of times, but I'm really starting to cool off these days. I had a run of blown primers (a combination of high pressures and an oversized firing pin hole) that helped me decide my vision and digits were more important than a slightly higher number on the chronograph. I don't want to see anyone else lose body parts over an unsafe load, so maybe I cry foul when I see something that looks a bit suspect.
I would really like to see CFE 223 show such wonderful gains, but just like many of the other "magic powders" you mentioned (especially RE 17), further testing often showed that folks were getting really high velocities because they loaded to really high pressures.
Oh yeah, Hodgdon was using a 24" barrel for their data, which made 3151 fps with a 120. The barrel length is available by clicking on the print icon on the reloading data page.
This guy had primer flattening.
"Prairie goat" is super smart and a [bleep] gun whisperer to boot. Hopefully he will be along shortly to make pressure predictions for all my loads from 1000 miles away. A human strain gauge w/ special gifts this guy....
Thanks!
Oh yeah, is the "Doolittle Gang" a new iteration of the "turdlike people", or something entirely different?
Count me in!
Are you going to be okay?
Got a laugh out of me.....
Only that I worked up to that and did not see pressure signs on my brass. Again for the record, I'm not using the 3300 fps load. As I stated, I'm shooting the published maximum for 120's and seeing 3200fps with absolutely no hint of excessive pressure.
So let me get this straight. You exceeded the max loads and believe it is safe?
I believe he was saying that he tested beyond the published max loads and then returned to the published max charge for his 3,200fps load.
I believe he was saying that he tested beyond the published max loads and then returned to the published max charge for his 3,200fps load.
While achieving higher than published velocity with a barrel two inches shorter than tested. I'm a big believer in "pressure = velocity", if that was my set up I would back the powder charge down till it was clocking about 3100fps with that powder and call it good.
David
Trusting a manufacturer always gets it right is like believing everything you hear on the internet. Remember the early years with federals entries of the high energy loads? I'm sure those blown primers many experienced didn't mean a thing.....nothing to worry about at all....just a little feature of the new ammo.
I must ask this question, but I will admit this is a bit of a [bleep].
But if a 120 BT at 3200fps p!sses off 270 Win fans, how do 7-08 fans feel about the 270's ability to shoot a 110g TSX or Accubond around 3500fps?
Well, as I imagine they're all well balanced individuals, probably doesn't annoy them one bit. I suppose I only posed the question to show that every cartridge out there has a trick or two up it's sleeve. And if its an outright need for speed, well the 270 can mix it with the best of them.
PS. For what its worth, the Barnes data lists 120g bullets at 3400fps. This is with Ramshot Hunter and a 24 inch barrel.
I must ask this question, but I will admit this is a bit of a [bleep].
But if a 120 BT at 3200fps p!sses off 270 Win fans, how do 7-08 fans feel about the 270's ability to shoot a 110g TSX or Accubond around 3500fps?
Well, as I imagine they're all well balanced individuals, probably doesn't annoy them one bit. I suppose I only posed the question to show that every cartridge out there has a trick or two up it's sleeve. And if its an outright need for speed, well the 270 can mix it with the best of them.
PS. For what its worth, the Barnes data lists 120g bullets at 3400fps. This is with Ramshot Hunter and a 24 inch barrel.
Yeah....exactly. But they don't wanna talk about that
Interferes with the agenda
which mostly consists of knocking the shidt out of the 270,then stomping on a 7/08 to duplicate it with 120's.
"Look what I did with the short cartridge!Yippee!"
Then they claw at your lapels, drooling over how great it is.....like nobody before them ever saw 120-140 gr 7mm bullets kill an animal.
Haven't people been getting 3200 with 120's using Big Game for some time now?
I will say this.....CFE got more velocity in my .308 with 155's than I thought possible, and appeared to do so without pressure.
Max Load per hodgdon in my 22" browning with a 120 TTSX was 3340 fps avg. with slight pressure signs. This was at close to 90 degrees. The load I settled on was 48.9g cfe 223 @3200 fps which I shot at about 50 degrees with ZERO pressure signs.
Bobby, I never quoted the 3300 figure when comparing to your .270. I have NO agenda my friend....I'm glad your in love with your .270 but I find it funny that you are so thin skinned when it comes to the subject. I find it even funnier that the same arguments you make against the 7mm-08 also apply to your .270 when comparing against the .264..........
At any rate I'm bored with these comparisons, I'm out of here for 4 days. Gonna go shoot some coyotes in the face until I'm not bored anymore.....Maybe I'll come back with a new perspective on the .270....but don't hold your breath.
X-VERMINATOR
Max Load per hodgdon in my 22" browning with a 120 TTSX was 3340 fps avg. with slight pressure signs. This was at close to 90 degrees. The load I settled on was 48.9g cfe 223 @3200 fps which I shot at about 50 degrees with ZERO pressure signs.
Your welcome........grin!
X-VERMINATOR
PG, here is what you should really have in your signature line..............
![[Linked Image]](http://i36.photobucket.com/albums/e4/silky2480/assclown.jpg)
You could start your own gang even..........
X-VERMINATOR
Haven't people been getting 3200 with 120's using Big Game for some time now?
I will say this.....CFE got more velocity in my .308 with 155's than I thought possible, and appeared to do so without pressure.
I safety get 3,150'ish with the 120 BT in my Tikka and I'm slightly under book max...
Bobby, I never quoted the 3300 figure when comparing to your .270. I have NO agenda my friend....I'm glad your in love with your .270 but I find it funny that you are so thin skinned when it comes to the subject. I find it even funnier that the same arguments you make against the 7mm-08 also apply to your .270 when comparing against the .264..........
At any rate I'm bored with these comparisons, I'm out of here for 4 days. Gonna go shoot some coyotes in the face until I'm not bored anymore.....Maybe I'll come back with a new perspective on the .270....but don't hold your breath.
X-VERMINATOR
XVERMIN, Knock yourself the [bleep] out!
What you think about anything worth mentioning,doesn't matter a [bleep] lick to me.I avoid purveyors of bad info, like the plague.
Got a funny feeling,all you've ever hunted with a 270 (or anything else)is coyotes....whooppee!
Keep pouring the coal to that 7/08....laffin!
Have fun.
Lumping BobinNH into a title of "Doolittle Gang" is laughable IMO. He is without a doubt one of the good guys around here, not to mention one of the most knowledgeable, willing to help and BTDT members on the forum. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, by all means carry on.
+100!
Lumping BobinNH into a title of "Doolittle Gang" is laughable IMO. He is without a doubt one of the good guys around here, not to mention one of the most knowledgeable, willing to help and BTDT members on the forum. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, by all means carry on.
+100!
I'll have to agree with that, too.
I get a kick out of how these guys use these small cartridges with light bullets, pushing the envelope in psi and velocity, only to shout out and proclaim it is something similiar or the same as another cartridge that has a bigger case capacity, which they will never be or come close to.
Long barrel, light bullet, .270 Win can be pretty amazing:
Cartridge : .270 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .277, 115, Sierra HPBT MatchK 1815
Useable Case Capaci: 64.223 grain H2O = 4.170 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64250 psi, or 442 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
25 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Vihtavuori N570 119.2 74.4 4.82 3543 92.7 64250 13229 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 108.2 66.9 4.33 3533 99.3 64250 12226 1.059 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 116.4 68.5 4.44 3527 100.0 64250 11802 1.053 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 2 119.1 70.5 4.57 3525 97.7 64250 12401 1.060 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 109.9 66.5 4.31 3513 96.6 64250 12357 1.057 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 110.1 69.3 4.49 3495 95.2 64250 12323 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 110.3 66.0 4.28 3494 98.3 64250 11973 1.062 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 113.2 66.3 4.30 3491 98.2 64250 11976 1.063 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum (Big Boy) 111.6 70.7 4.58 3490 97.4 64250 12061 1.052 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 108.1 65.8 4.26 3488 97.0 64250 11937 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 114.3 65.8 4.26 3488 97.0 64250 11937 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 109.0 65.2 4.23 3470 96.8 64250 11811 1.051 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 102.2 62.5 4.05 3445 99.7 64250 11163 1.067 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 94.3 58.5 3.79 3445 100.0 64250 10597 1.054 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 96.6 60.5 3.92 3443 99.3 64250 11196 1.068 ! Near Maximum !
If you wanted to have some real fun with it, you could always try this:
Cartridge : .270 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .277, 85, Barnes MPG 27701
Useable Case Capaci: 64.389 grain H2O = 4.181 cm�
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 26.0 inch = 660.4 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64250 psi, or 442 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 120 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
19 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 65%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Norma MRP 115.0 71.3 4.62 3947 96.7 64250 11748 0.943 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 116.6 70.7 4.58 3908 92.5 64250 11618 0.944 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 117.2 70.3 4.55 3902 95.1 64250 11402 0.946 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 100.4 62.5 4.05 3894 99.6 64250 10579 0.937 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 120.0 70.5 4.57 3888 94.8 63631 11368 0.950 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 116.7 73.6 4.77 3878 90.6 64250 11463 0.949 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 108.9 66.7 4.32 3876 97.7 64250 10871 0.948 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 108.7 63.8 4.14 3874 99.0 64250 10653 0.952 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 103.0 64.7 4.19 3874 96.8 64250 10877 0.950 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 103.0 64.7 4.19 3874 96.8 64250 10877 0.950 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 112.9 64.1 4.15 3871 99.0 64250 10648 0.965 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 105.5 64.0 4.15 3870 98.9 64250 10755 0.957 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 114.3 69.7 4.52 3866 92.6 64250 11193 0.941 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot BigGame 101.5 62.2 4.03 3862 99.6 64250 10382 0.950 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 98.3 58.3 3.78 3861 99.7 64250 10385 0.956 ! Near Maximum !
Xverminator,
I've grown bored with this convo also. I may have missed it, but how many loads do you have on your brass?
Lumping BobinNH into a title of "Doolittle Gang" is laughable IMO. He is without a doubt one of the good guys around here, not to mention one of the most knowledgeable, willing to help and BTDT members on the forum. If it makes you feel better about yourself though, by all means carry on.
+100!
+1 again.
I do love the 7mm-08 and is my favorite, not a 270 fan for stupid reasons that begin to calm as I get older. As much as I love the 7mm-08, it ain't no 270 when it comes to velocity unless pushing bullets down a long tube and even then for like weights, the 270 wins.
All that talk don't mean doodley squat.
Not directed at you, Chip.
Frankly, guys, shoot whatever you want to shoot. Save your anger for the anti-gunners!!!
Yeah getting cranky doesn't make much sense. Banter is good and the debates are great to read because a lot of people can learn something from them. But getting personal in an online environment is silly.
All that talk don't mean doodley squat.
Not directed at you, Chip.
Frankly, guys, shoot whatever you want to shoot. Save your anger for the anti-gunners!!!
+1 again.
Yeah getting cranky doesn't make much sense. Banter is good and the debates are great to read because a lot of people can learn something from them. But getting personal in an online environment is silly.
But, but, but...my rifle is better than your rifle!! And you need to understand that!
Yeah getting cranky doesn't make much sense. Banter is good and the debates are great to read because a lot of people can learn something from them. But getting personal in an online environment is silly.
But, but, but...my rifle is better than your rifle!! And you need to understand that!
No!! My rifle is more better.
Not only does CFE-223 apparently get warp speed out of the 7-08 (It may have not tried it) but it also is supposed to clean your barrel with every shot and wash your dog.
SO IF I buy some CFE-223 and a 7-08 do I get a free dog or is that extra ???????????
How's the temperature stability with CFE-223?
David
In my experience it is quite temp sensative. I do not have a apples to apples comparison, but looking at my past data, 48.5 gr. with a 120ttsx produced 3275fps at 85 degrees. At about 50 degrees (may have been colder) 48.9 gr produced 3200 fps. The latter load produced 1/2" groups
In my experience it is quite temp sensative. I do not have a apples to apples comparison, but looking at my past data, 48.5 gr. with a 120ttsx produced 3275fps at 85 degrees. At about 50 degrees (may have been colder) 48.9 gr produced 3200 fps. The latter load produced 1/2" groups
Thanks! I thought that might be the case.
David
I have no qualms with any rifle or any cartridge that anyone wants to shoot, and I am not here to make any claims about short action versus long action.
But first hand experience, and not exceeding any load limits, CFE-223 powder flat moves 120 gr bullets out of the 7-08 case and 150 gr bullets out of the 308 case. CFE-223 does quite well in the wife's 7-08ai and my 308 win.
With 120 gr TTSX bullets in the 7-08ai (24"), it gets over 3200 fps going 1 grain below the Hodgdon listed 7-08 max.
150 gr Interbonds get just under 3000 fps in the 23" barreled 308 win using 51.0 gr powder. In a hurry, and with excellent accuracy.
Maybe this new powder is just optimized for these particular weight bullets in these two cartridges. Appears so to me, that is all.