Gents I just picked up a beautiful Model 71 Winchester and was fortunate to find new brass and 200gr Hornady and 250gr Woodleighs. The rifle came with some very good (reasonably loaded and accurate) 200gr Hornady loaded rounds with which the previous owner took a nice moose with. If any of you have any loads to share, particularly for the 350gr bullet, I would appreciate it.

jorge

You did mean 250 gr data, right?

Thanks! looks like RL-15's the way to go.

Jorge,

I did a piece of HANDLOADER on the .348 for a late fall edition in 2011. It included a number of loads for the bullets you have.

With the 200gr Hornady, I get my best accuracy with RL-19.

405wcf

Great info. Here's some more:

http://www.realguns.com/loads/348winchester.htm

Varget with the 250's has done well for me.

John: Do you know where I can get a copy? I did not have that caliber back then so I did not keep it. That said, how do these look?:

Barnes Original 250 59.8 2.795 Re19 59.0 2309 2960 1.1
Barnes Original 250 59.8 2.795 H414 57.0 2417 3242 0.7

You can order one from Wolfe Publishing.

In my rifle (a Browning carbine with 20" barrel) I got the best results with 200's using Varget and with 250's using H4350. I would much rather use those powders than RL-19 or H414, because of their more consistent performance in cold weather. But then I hunt a lot in cold weather, and you may not.

Thanks John. I agree on your powder choice, much more temp insensitive. jorge

I just scored on some Winchester brass at Midway USA! 200 pieces. Still waitng on the Woodleigh 250s but I have some 200gr Hornady Flat and Flex points to play with this weekend. The rifle came with some new reloads using 200gr Hornadys, IMR 3031 and WLR primers. I'll run those through a chrono tomorrow and see how they work, then I'll make up some loads with H-4350, RL-15 & 19 and see how it goes from there. I'll shoot at 50 yards to start.

Ha! That Winchester book by R.L. Wilson sits on either my coffee table or toilet. Pure gun porn. Now back on topic!

Ken Waters Pet Loads books are an excellent source of loading data for .348 WCF.

50 yards is where I started as well. I was using the factory bolt peep and this is how she did with factory 200 gr. Winchester silver tips..:



I screwed the 3rd. shot up when I got cocky. Put the 4th one right back where the 3rd one should have been

58 grs of H4350 with the 250 gr Barnes shoots very well in my Browning Carbine.

My response from now on will be "how high sir."

John, I took your advice and loaded H-4350 and Varget, 65gr and 57.5 gr respectivly both just under their max published loads. Velocities came in EXACTLY as publishes, with very small velocity spread. Both Powders attained nearly identical velocities, ~2603-07 fps. Below are the targets at 50 yards:

H-4350 three shots:


And five for Varget, with the last three after I drifted the sight over:


I then moved the sight up and punched them in the center. I expect the Hornadys to do well at 348 velocities, so I'll stick with them for now. I have 250gr Woodleighs coming and I'll report on them next week. On reflection, I question the Woodleighs as they have no cannelure but I'm hoping the Lee Factory Crimp Die will clamp them down enough. jorge

Nice shooting. Is that with the factory irons?

Yep, factory barrel sights.

Jorge,

Glad the loads worked OK!

You are my hero and a fine rifle shooter sir!!!!

roger on the hero. John I ordered the magazine from Wolfe and I'll check out your 250 grain loads which I really hope they will shoot as well. At the ranges I'll use this rifle, I think it's better to shoot the heavier bullet. Did you use Varget and H-4350 for the 250 loads as well?

Didn't try ay Varget with the 250's, as the data I could find suggested it would be slower than some other powders. Tried H4350, Hybrid 100V, IMR4007SC and H4831SC. Hybrid 100V was the most accurate by a little bit, and H4831SC the fastest, but H4350 was the best compromise of accuracy and velocity.

Thanks!

Jorge, sorry I'm late to the party but I was on a hunt. I've had the 348 for some years now, but the Browning version. It's shot both the 200 Hornady and old 200 Banres X very well.

I've ran both H4831 and H4350 with the 250 Barnes and both shot very well and IIRC, were both around 2250-2300 fps, with H4831 giving slightly faster speeds. I went with H4350 because it was hitting to the same POI at 100 yards as my 200 Hornady load.

M1, thanks for the info. As you saw from my post, both Varget and H-4350 are shooting to POI and exact velocites with either the 200gr Hornady Flat or Flex Points. I had ordered some Woodleighs but they are out until January so I found some 250 grain Barnes Originals and ordered those. I have both of those powders (4350 & 4831) handy so I will load some this weekend and report back. I was also going to try IMR 4064 and RL-19 as I have quite a bit of those as well.

That's a beauty of a 348! Congrats. Looks like it is really an awesome shooter as well. The 348 is high on my hit list of rifles to own in the future.. Very nice. Those 200's and 250's should be fearsome on animals.

There is something about how a lever gun hands that makes it comfortable and familiar. That is a beautiful rifle. How's the recoil and muzzle jump?

IMR 4064 did well for me with the 200 grain bullets, Hornady and the old Barnes X. It didn't give the velocities of some powders but shot well. One of my deer loads is with 4064. It didn't do well for me with the 250's velocity wise, I think with the max load it was just under 2000 fps. I did shoot some RL19 with the 250s and worked up to 59 or 60 grains at about 2150 fps IIRC.

Jeff if you saw the targets a few posts prior, I had no issues with muzzle jump or keeping it on target. It seems nowadays I find myself wanting to hunt more and more with my newly kindled love for lever actions. I'm really enjoying my 95' in 303 Brit, my 405 (which if you remember I killed those axis with) and now this 71. The 250 Barnes' are due in Friday so I'll load some and take them out for testing this weekend. I plan to use Rl-19, H-4350, IMR 4064 and see how it goes.

M1 thanks for the info via PM!

Wish I could...don't have the eyeballs for open sights anymore, at least for rifle ranges.

jorge, anytime, I look forward to seeing how you do.

Quick fly-by, but I just got back from the range after shooting the 250 Barnes and here's my preliminary results.
1. Not as accurate as the 200 grain Hornady Flex or Flat Points, in fact the Hornadys are almost mathematically twice as accurate.

59gr H-4350: 2313, 13, 23 fps (shoots to sights @50 yards. The 200s @ 2530 shoot lower, see target on OP)
51gr IMR 4064: 2303, 15, 22 fps (same POI as above) and a more accurate load. I got this one of a very old "Cartridges Of The World" book and described by the author as "factory duplicate ballistics". This book has always been generally pretty accurate. The down side is it is an OLD book so none of the modern powders are listed.
61gr RL 19: The most accurate load by a hair, but SLOW: 2246 fps. The good side is it shoots close to the 200grain Hornadys.

Back tomorrow for more re-testing and I'll have target pics.

Thanks for posting your results Jorge. I look forward to your pics and other info...Oh, by the way my friends 71 shot like this during load development with the 200gr. Hornady interlocks:

He's a "newbie" hand loader and his data is funny. He did not run the load over a chrono so the "2,400 fps" is speculation and taken from the hornady manual. Powder charge at "59.1 grains" is funny too. Oh well, he got his rifle to shoot this load very well without blowing it up....


This group was shot at 100 yards and measured less than 3/4" center to center. His is set up with a side mount and old leupold 2-7x28 scope. It really seems to be a shooter and he's happy as can be about it. It will out shoot his new Winchester model 70 300 wsm Extreme Weather. He's not real happy with that, but that's how it goes sometimes...

I give up on this powder issue! OF COURSE I can't find either Varget or Hogdon Hybrid 100! grrrr!

Thanks for the update. I haven't pushed up that high with the 250s and IMR 4064 but I'll have to try it and see how it does in mine. I have maybe 3/4 of a lb of Varget left and went to load up some and my priming tool broke so I have to get a new one ASAP. Here's what H4350 gave me at 100 yards with the Williams FP site, same POI as my 200 grn Hornady load:

Wow, that'll work just fine! Looks like your ready to hunt! Nice work.

What load of H-4350 and primer? That is a hell of a group! I'm on the hunt for a Lyman peep sight. On my 1895 405 WCF, I halved my groups at 100 after I switched from the Buckhorn to the Williams. I think the new Williams look "cheap" so I'm holding out for a vintage Lyman or Williams. Incidentally, the both take the same sight.

Anyhow, this is what I turned out today. And BTW switching from F 210s to WLR, DID slow down the loads by about 20 fps and I'm fine with that as I believe Winchester tested their loads with 28" barrels back then:

51gr IMR 4064 ("Factory Duplicate from "Cartridges Of The World"). MV a very steady 2313, 2313, 2325. Flier I "think" was my issue:


Mule Deer Article load (half a grain lighter at 59 of H-3450) and I'm pretty sure the L-R drift was my issue again:



Something else to ponder is I don't know the reputation of the Barnes Original for accuracy. Too bad they don't make a TSX!

Damn, I need to get out and shoot mine!!!!!

Jorge, that load is 59.0 of H4350 with a Federal 210. Some good groups of yours as well.

Mule Deer; I couldn't help myself on a good deal on an eight pound keg of Hybrid 100 so I bought it. I hope you're right!

Recently bought a new win mod 71,back in the 80's fell in love with the caliber/rifle but couldn't find any good bullets back then. Live in alaska so wanted a bullet that would expand in deer but still hold together if get into trouble with brown bear again. Noticed an article in american rifleman and saw that more bullets were being made for 348. Bought all could find, 200gr swift a-frame, 200gr flex-tip, 250gr woodleigh, 250 kodiak's. After extensive testing, difficult withpowder shortage now, settled on the woodleigh with 51gr IMR-4895. Extrmely accurate, getting half inch groups with my ancient eye's at 100yds. Bullets have performed perfectly, excellant expansion and hold's together with nice driving post. Chrongraphed at 2500fps.

2500 fps with a 250 Woodleigh?

Yikes. Can you say OVERLOAD...

FWIW, my '71 shot best with the IMR4350. Hate running it through my measure though. Always have, always will.



Denny.

What charge of 4350 & weight of bullet?

I feel the same way. I've been trying to switch over to H4350 partly becasue of that, but don't think I'll ever be without good ol IMR4350...

Near max load of IMR4350 & 200 Hornady.

Sorry for being imprecise on the charge as it has been many years. Not hard not find the sweet spot.

http://www.hornady.com/store/348-Cal-.348-200-gr-FP/

Great deer load for your Pa. camp.

Denny.

Try to find a factory bolt peep.


Denny.

You won't be happy till you have a Model 64 deluxe to keep the 71 company in the safe.
I've turned down $2000+ for mine.

Haven't tried IMR 4350, but I really can't ask for more than what Mule Deer's load with Varget offered up!

I just realized I put up the wrong target for IMR 4064 and 250gr Barnes. Here is is, sorry:

And that's what a relaxing day spent at the range with a chronograph and a stack of paper is for. Of the many guns I own or have owned the 71 and the 64 ranked the highest in sheer fun.

JMHO of course,

Denny.

re m1garand
Per hogdon manual, 49.7 is max, from a conservative manual with loads designed for a 50+ year old gun's I wouldn't consider 1.3 grains over listed max an overload, when used in a newly manufactured rifle. No stiff extraction, pressure signs on primer normal.

If you are legitimately getting 2500 fps with a 250 grain bullet it is. That's a solid 200 or so fps faster than anything I've gotten with the 250 Barnes and several powders. I plugged that load into quickload and to get that velocity with a 20" barrel it shows your pressure at 66k. With a 24" barrel it gives 55K. SAAMI CUP for the 348 is 40k CUP or about 45-46k PSI IIRC. I don't believe you'll get some of the "traditional" pressure signs until you get over 70k, but I could be wrong on that.

I cannot speak to the accuracy of Original barnes 250s in 348 dia, but in other calibers I found the accuracy very good. (.308, .318 Westley, 33 Jeff., .375, .424 OKH, .416 Rigby and several of the double rifle calibers) I still use the .510s for the 50-110 in my 500 x3" double for plinking

Re m1garand
The hogden table took load from is for a 250 barnes 49.7 listed 2250fps, with a 1.3 increase even considering it is a diffrent bullet, I agree 2500 does not seem right. Of course different bullets of same weight with same charge will vary a bit, but this does seem too extreme. Did the chronographing this fall, will go back and do it again to verify. Am beginning to doubt this myself. Thanks for making me rethink this.

Just back from the range boys,dialed back the load to 58gr (H-4350) and WLR primers with the 250gr Barnes Original (ambient temp here is 80 deg). Velocity right at 2300 so I'm set with these.

Great shooting Jorge. Man, 2300 with the 250's and that sorta accuracy has to make you smile.

That works for me..good shootin amigo.

It wouldn't seem you'd get that high velocity with that load I adjusted the burn rate in quickload to get the velocity you claimed with that charge. Could be an error somewhere (chrony, scale, etc) or something is not right. Hope everything checks out and your load is safe.

Great shooting jorge, glad to see the H4350 worked for you.

Thanks! I figured that one grain less would go easier on the ol' gal!

Went to the range and chronographed load, hanging head in shame.
348 win
250 woodleigh 51gr IMR-4895 2259FPS
200 swift A-frame 58gr Varget 2620FPS
200gr hornady flex-tip 58gr Varget 2612FPS
200gr win factory power point 2464FPS
I apologize for posting in-accurate info. Still a very accurate load, would have been nice to get 2500fps, but obviously that is not possible with anything approaching reasonable pressure. Going to triple check any further post's I make here. The hornady, power point (factory) and swift bullets didn't give bad accuracy, 3in average groups. My rifle definetly prefered 250gr bullets, woodleigh load gave half in groups followed by the 250 kodiak which turned in 2in groups. All gave more than adaquate accuracy for a lever gun with open sights, groups shot at 100yds.

You are correct in your statement.

Excellent loads either way. Not too much I'd be concerned about with a 250 at 2250 or the Swift at 2600.

beretz: that is what I get with the 200gr Hornadies flex & flat points using the exact load of Varget. jorge

I wouldn't worry about it...it happens. Looks like you're good to go and nothing more than a simple error rather than some serious pressure. Now I really got to try that Woodleigh...

Gents I impressed the hell out of myself today. I finally gave in and installed a Williams Peep and just like in my 405, accuracy increased significantly. This group was shot with 200gr Hornadys and MD's charge of 56.5gr of Varget. I since corrected for windage

Good shooting!

I love my Browning:

http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pharmseller/media/112_1213-1.jpg.html][/URL]


http://s174.photobucket.com/user/pharmseller/media/114_1438-1.jpg.html][/URL]


P

That's awesome shooting with open sights!! Are those the XP3 200gr. factory loads?

Yep. Even better, it was the first three shots ever, I bought her NIB. The buck was the same year I bought the rifle, 123 yards standing on my hind legs like a man. East side of Highway 97 about 6 miles north of the 97/58 junction.


P

Wow, great buck. Very nice shooting with them rifles. Seems like they are real capable.

Nice shooting by all. I have the Williams FP on mine and really like it. Jorge what kind of velocity are you getting with that load?

2580-2595 today. Ambient temp was ~ 75, yeah it's Florida and it sucks....

I have about a half lb of Varget left, I can see I'm going to burn it shooting some 200 and 250s in mine...and I'll take those temps over what we've had...and more sub zero later this week

M1: I found the H-4350 (58gr) to be much better with the 250gr Barnes', right out of Mule Deer's article cited at the start of this thread. jorge

I thought I'd seen somewhere Varget worked well with the 250s, but you're right, I've done well with H4350 so why waste the bullets or powder. I'll fire some 200s, I have a stash of the old Barnes 200 grn X bullets that shoot very well but I'd like to get a little more velocity than 4064 has given.

Nice, thanks for the heads up on that BSA.. Now I just need to find more bullets!

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