It seems many sing the praises of both of these setups which are polar in cost.

My only experience is with the Redding Bushing Die. I have never used a Lee Collet Neck Die before.

I would love to hear the thoughts from those of you who are experienced/educated in the use of these different systems.

Especially since there is such a dramatic difference in costs.

I would be using either of these in conjunction with a Redding Body Die for shoulder bump and a seating die of choice.

Thanks in advance for your thoughts.

twofish

I use the Redding Type "S" neck bushing die. Never tried the Lee Collet. Why try to fix that which is not broken. Rick.

1. Is the Collet Die Better than the Bushing Die regarding runout and consistency?

2. I am thinking of consolidating all of my die sets to "one system" for all calibers and in doing so if the Lee Collet is as good or better it would be a less costly alternative to the Bushing Dies and associated Bushing Costs.

3. I suppose a third alternative would be to eliminate the body die altogether and just go with a F/L Bushing Die and only partially resize until F/L is required.

Just For the record I have never been a fan in the past of partial resizing using F/L dies.

twofish

1. Yes. I have used Redding Bushing Dies in 06 (now use Lee Collet) and presently use one in 338RUM (no Lee Collet available). Have Lee Collets in multiple calibers. Have done concentricity tests and ID consistency tests (using pin gauges) and the Lee Collet is the clear winner. I will say this, if you are very very precise in your prep (mainly outside neck turning and annealing) then the bushing dies can be as good. Also if you have a tight necked chamber then bushings can be useful to control the ID and to keep neck brass springback variances from unduly effecting consistency.

2. For me, a perfect set of dies is a Lee Collet, Redding Body Die and Competition Seater. This is as far as I want to go as I do not Benchrest and only load for hunting, but do like to have the finest hunting load I can make. I do send off to Lee for smaller mandrels to increase bullet grip to .002" or .003" in some of the more often loaded calibers.

YMMV

Have & use both.......just good luck finding Redding bushings

The LCD is the better system, since it consistently loads with low runout without any adjustment, does not require any lube at all, and is so much lower-cost. It is pretty much foolproof. The only possible thing you have to do is make sure that your mandrel is the correct size that you get proper amount of neck tension. That requires polishing the mandrel on about 1 of 5 dies IME.

Funny that you have posted this. This is the exact system that I have been thinking about using for my "die set standardization". One other consideration though is that the collet dies do not seem to be available for AI's and less than "popular" cartridges.

But you have definitely gone exactly where my thinking is currently.

twofish

I like the collet dies. Stone simple, no lube, straight ammo and works very little brass.

That said, I'm a reloading newb and never tried the Redding Bushing dies.

I use the standard cartridge collet die on AI versions.

You are only working the neck, not the shoulder.

I was wondering about that but did not know if the "AI's" fatter body would be a problem.

twofish

Not quite foolproof. Many show a lack of understanding of the proper way to set the dies up for best results. I have bought some dies from individuals who said they were junk and they worked as advertised.

There is an instance when neck lubrication maybe required. I have noted that some annealed brass will drag on the mandrel.

One other note on the LCD is pay attention to neck tension on cases sized multiple times. The work hardened brass may not spring back to the desired neck tension.

MadMooney is right, you can use the parent caliber Lee Collet on AI's, says so on Lee's website. My Lee Collet for my 280AI reads "7 MM EXPRESS" on it which is the same as a 280 Remington.

roundoak is right that springback can effect your neck tension. The mandrel that comes with the die typically gives only .001" bullet grip which Lee says aids in concentricity and accuracy. If you use it to load a very work hardened un-annealed neck, then the collets will size the neck brass inwards and the neck brass will springback outwards and give you less grip. Sometimes not enough and you can move by hand. That is why I like to use a mandrel that is .002" or .003" smaller than caliber




Personally, I did not have good luck making the mandrel smaller as it needs to be consistent throughout it's length and perfectly round, so I order from Lee for $5 each.

^^^this^^^

When you think about it the answer is quite simple.
The Lee Collet die sizes the case mouth around a Mandrel making the inside of the mouth concentric and perfectly round. Any imperfections in the case walls are transferred to the outside of the neck.

The Bushing die does just the opposite. It sizes the case neck from the outside in, making the outside of the case neck perfectly round and concentric,but transfers all the variations and imperfections in case walls to the inside where the bullet makes contact.

Redding's advice when searching for concentric ammo and reduced runout is to make sure you have very uniform case wall thickness or ream and turn.

The Lee die on the other hand needs no such special techniques, just size em and go.

This is all good info. Thanks to all who have replied. Hopefully others will chime in as well.

So apparently one can produce more consistent, concentric ammo. while using less costly equipment without extra parts (extra bushings for different lots or brands of brass).

It is also good to hear that the standard cartridge collet dies can be used for AI versions of the standard round. Apparently there is not only enough space inside the Lee die bodies for the standard cartridge walls and shoulders to not be disturbed but it is also large enough to allow the larger body diameter and sharper shoulders of the AI versions to be neck sized without touching their walls or shoulders either.

Also no lubing typically necessary and no carbide sizing button to buy to put less stress on a bushing neck sized case to ensure inconsistencies in brass are transferred back to the outside of the neck.

The different mandrels for the collet dies also seem to be plenty cheap enough also. Heck of alot cheaper than bushings.

Likin' what I am hearing.

Anyone else have any thoughts?

twofish

I do feel like the Redding Competition Seating dies are worthy of their added expense when compared to standard seaters. It has been my experience that the Comp. Seaters do a much better job of keeping things concentric than do the standard seaters made by RCBS or Redding.

I can't imagine the Lee Seater Dies could approach the concentric seating capability of the Redding Competition Seating Die although I have no empirical evidence so say this other than the very low cost of the Lee Seater.

Would love to hear others experiences regarding this also.

twofish

Will use Lee seaters only as a last resort. I have RCBS and Redding Competition seaters and prefer the RCBS. Once you get used to dropping the bullet in the side it's hard to go back to balancing the bullet and pinching fingers

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/17...e-30-06-springfield?cm_vc=ProductFinding



I have been able to detect no difference in runout of seating depth consistency between my RCBS or Redding but can't compare side to side since I have one or the other.

I think the type of brass that you use plays a factor when deciding between the LCD and the Redding bushing die.

If you neck turn your brass, sort your brass for neck thickness, or use brass that has very consistent neck thickness right out of the bag, like Lapua or Norma typically does, then either neck sizing die would be fine, with the Redding often giving slightly better runout.

However, if you're using Winchester, Remington, Federal, etc. brass without neck turning it or sorting it, then I'd go with the LCD.

My favorite combo is the LCD for neck sizing, the Redding Body Die for the occasional need to bump back the shoulders and a Wilson seater. I have several Wilson seaters cut with the same reamer used to cut the rifle chamber.

That combo, checking concentricity with the Sinclair and adjusting if needed with a TruAngle is about as good as it gets.

IMHO,

DF

Despite its ease of use, in the instances where I've directly compared the RCBS competition seater to a Redding or Forster competition seater, the RCBS has not done quite as good a job w.r.t. runout.

^^^^This is very close to my pick^^^^

I'd pick the Forster seating die over the Redding if it were available for my cartridge. They are effectively the same design. So I'd pick them for slightly lower cost (at least what I typically see) and the larger storage box is handy. Redding certainly seems to cover more cartridges right now though.

I have a Redding neck sizer for 17 Rem. around here some where, I bought it long before LCD's were available, as soon a LCD's came on the market I bought one and ran some tests, the LCD always made the best ammo.

Try one you will like it!

Lee Collet die user.. why reinvent the wheel...

]I use the Lee Collet die. Never tried the Redding Type "S" neck bushing die. Why try to fix that which is not broken?
Fotis

I use the LCD......it's simple & it works.

The Redding S die is simply too expensive to have a bunch & does not provide as accurate a job.

If the brass gets too brittle for the LCD, just anneal or schit can it if it's been used that much.

I also prefer the Forster Benchrest seating die over all others.

MM

I'm 50/50.

When the Lee Collet Dies work, they work very well--and I used to use them a lot. But have seen too many recently that are a PITA to adjust, and some I just haven't been able to get work right--and I've been using them for a long time.

Haven't seen that with Redding dies, and finding the right bushing has been easy. Since I don't like to have to fool around any more than necessary, these says have more Redding "S" than Lee collets these days.

But LCD's do work very well--when they work.

When you say the LCD won't work correctly or won't adjust, what have you been finding is the actual problem? Out of spec, lacking polish, just messed up, etc?

What do we need to look for on the defect side of things?

With about 2 grand worth of Redding Comp dies on the table, I tried a few collet dies and found .001-.002 runout, equal to or better than neck turned and competition bushing dies.

I don't completely clean up the necks, normally about 75% but I bought collet dies for everything but the 7WSM and plan to order a custom set from Lee.

DakotaDeer,

here's an example. My first set of Lee Collet Dies in .220 Swift worked great, with minimal adjustment. But I sold them when I sold the rifle, because I was younger and dumber. When I got another Swift 15-20 years later I ordered another set, and spent all of one afternoon and part of the next day trying to make them work, and could not.

I am not exactly inexperienced with reloading dies, and Lee probably would have replaced them, but I'd also experienced some problems with other Lee stuff in the past few years. I handload for a living so for me that was a wasted work day.

Have yet to encounter the same problem with Redding S-dies. I make a couple of measurements, order the right bushing, and start loading. In fact I use them for my 6mm PPC benchrest rifle, and rounds come out with at most .0005" bullet runout, and 5-shot groups average .18" at 100 yards. It took about 5 minutes to set up the dies. Yeah, they cost more, but....

This doesn't mean I don't buy and use other Lee stuff. I love their bullet casting products, for instance. But I don't have time to waste on stuff that might not work.

The kink with bushing dies is if you need to move the brass very much.

For example, I load a lot of 308 Winchester for rifles with production SAAMI chambers. The fired necks come out of the chambers about .344". If I'm using WW brass, I wind up with a loaded neck diameter about .332", so I need to size them to .330" for the desired neck tension. In my experience for these dimensions I don't wind up with straight sized brass unless I size down in two or even three steps with bushing dies.

It's not always easy to get, but I think the very best set up is a conventional FL die whose dimensions properly fit the brass and chamber in the situation.

Mathman, I have heard others echo your sentiment as well. I guess it depends of the level of consistency that you/we are chasing.

One friends opinion is similar to yours. That is to use a standard F/L sizing die to set neck and bump shoulder as necessary. Full length size competely as required. I typically F/L size hunting rounds anyway to eliminate one negative variable.

Said friend then uses only competition type seating die to obtain the best consistency in that part of the equation.

It is interesting also that Redding sells a die set for a limited number or cartridges called the "Master Hunter Die Set" which consist of exactly what is described above. (A Standard F/L Sizing die and a Competition Seater)

If I did choose to adopt this particulat two die method I think the only thing that I would add is a Carbide Sizing Button the the F/L die as I believe it truly does make a difference in reducing neck runout whether full length or partial full length resizing.

I guess ultimately I need to ask myself this question. Since I am first and foremost a hunter and secondly a guy who likes to wring out whatever accuracy I can from a given rifle how far do I really need to go in this regard.

I do enjoy trying to shoot tiny holes in paper from a bench for fun and knowledge but ultimately the shot that truly matters to me is the first shot from a cold barrel in most times less than ideal conditions.

I suppose if I lived in a place where I had the opportunity to shoot at game (or steel for that matter) frequently at long ranges from prone position that I may need to adjust my ideas further.

twofish

I prefer to neck size as long as the brass will allow it, but when I do eventually have to bump the shoulder back, I have had my best results from a Forster die that I had them hone the neck out for me to give proper tension without using the expander. Produces remarkably straight ammo and were it not for the fact that I like not having to clean off case lube, I could happily use that die every time I load. The other I have tried that gives equally good results is a Redding body die in conjunction with a Lee Collet die�


John

mathman,

I haven't run into that problem yet, but see how it could happen. Right now I mostly use Redding bushing dies on several smaller varmint rounds from .17 Hornet to .22-250, and they work great.

My .308 dies happen to be Forsters, which have worked well, if not to quite "benchrest" standards.

One thing I've tinkered with over the years (though not as much as I used to) is getting "standard" dies to size brass straight. A couple weeks ago I bought some RCBS .338 RCM dies because they were the only one quickly available. Found RCBS is now using a smoother, more tapered expander ball than formerly, and that by raising it halfway up inside the die, and leaving the lock-nut loose, brass would resize very straightly.

This took about three minutes of experimentation--which is one reason I'm not real fond of dies where the expander-ball/decapping-pin assembly HAS to be locked down firmly. Sometimes they work better with a floating expander/pin.

I do have a couple of conventional dies that absolutely fit the brass/chamber of my particular rifle, so don't need the expander/decapper at all. One is an RCBS for my .300 H&H and the other a Redding for my .221 Fireball.

Probably the best fit I've run into is a vanilla RCBS sizer for my buddy's Browning Low Wall in 260 Remington. Thread it in to touch the shell holder and the brass gets sized just enough for smooth chambering. Also, using the lot of RP brass we started with years ago when he got the rifle, the expander ball only lightly kisses the case necks on the way out.

I've followed your writing/advice about getting regular dies to size straight for quite a while, and your tips work. Night before last I FL sized some 300 Savage brass in an RCBS sizer w/o the ball in place, subsequently pushing them over a Hornady elliptical ball in another die. I checked the necks for runout and the worst ones barely showed .0015", most showed .001" and less. I'm thinking about getting a little arbor press and a Wilson seater to go with.

Is your Forster 308 sizer stock, or did you get it honed?

It's stock. Average bullet runout is around .002-.003, but I'm not shooting match rifles, just hunting rifles, and it works just fine for them.

I was thinking more along the lines of how much the necks were getting cold worked. One Forster was plenty tight for the thinnest 308 brass I've come across, and it needed honing to .335" to play nice with Lapua and Federal cases.

Their seaters, regular and Ultra, make very straight cartridges for me.

John,

What was wrong with the die or what did it do that you could not make it work?

MM

It was four years ago and I don't remember much other than trying everything in the directions, then trying all the advice I could find on the Internet. Didn't get anywhere and eventually gave up.

Usually I give a company a chance to make good, but if other products from the same company have been mediocre I eventually quit. A lot of Lee stuff works fine--I'm a big fan of their bullet molds and other relatively simple stuff, but have had troubles with their more complex tools. So I stick to tools that have worked consistently and easily.

JB,

Would you happen to be working on an article on the 338 RCM...?

This is the one reason that I like the Redding Carbide Expander Button. Its spherical design is inherently more forgiving than other sizing button designs plus with it being carbide it has a lower coefficient of friction thereby creating less tension, torsional, angular or straight linear on the case neck itself while doing its job.

I would imagine if left slightly loose that this type sizer may work even better although with its spherical design I am not certain that it would be required.


I have not seen one of the new RCBS sizing buttons. Perhaps they are similar in design rather than the cylindrical types on the ones I have.

twofish

It's not worth 36.00 bucks to me, bought a few in the past.

If I have the choice I will not use any die that takes a fired case that is oversize, size it to be undersize, and then expand it to fit again. Not when I can use a collet die and size it down once and not have to lube cases.

I was sold on bushing dies and used them for a decade, but that includes neck turning, lots of lube, cleaning the lube off and this style of die puts any brass thickness variation on the inside of the neck.

twofish, the collet dies are cheap so buy one and compare the runout of your typical setup against the collet die. I did it and found runout to be equal too or better than my other dies and that was entirely dependent on the amount the brass was turned.

I loaded up a few (30) rounds last night for my .308 using my Lee collet die and Forster Ultra Micrometer Seater. The most runout from any of the rounds loaded was .002" according to a Sinclair runout gage. Most measured between .001 and .0015" of runout, with some having no detectable runout at all, as in the needle not moving. This was with unturned, unsorted brass. Admittedly, I was using Lapua brass, which tends to be very uniform, but still, I was very pleased with the results.

I'm sure, provided the brass is reasonably uniform to begin with, equally good results can be had with bushing dies, or any die that doesn't use an expander. As I mentioned above, if I have to bump the shoulder back when my collet die sized brass starts getting a little snug in the chamber, I have had equally good results with a Forster FL die that I had them hone out the neck on so that I don't have to use an expander ball, and also redding body dies combined with a lee collet die.

I have tried all the methods I could find on getting dies with expanders to produce concentric brass, but have just not been able to get as good a result from them in spite of my efforts.

As always, others have had different results. It's just human nature to go with what we have personally observed, when it has worked for us�

John

A bit off topic...I like Wilson hand dies..I load for fifteen or twenty different cartridges and have been loading for about sixty years. When I get a rifle that has promise, I usually get a set of Wilson dies. It is easy to get straight loads with good brass. It does not take me much longer, I usually load small lots i.e. twenty or so. Also I enjoy reloading and am retired so speed is not an issue for me.

RDW,

I'd like to hear why bushing dies require neck-turning and lots of lube. I only neck-turn for one of my rifles, and don't lube the necks when using bushing dies. I do sort brass for even neck thickness, and find that works fine with bushing dies.

elliesbear,

The Lee Loader is essentially an inexpensive hand die of the same basic design. I've had great luck using them over the years, but unfortunately the selection of cartridges is limited.

Have shot the smallest groups from my Ruger 1B .22 Hornet when the brass has been neck-sized in a Lee Loader die, well under 1/2" for 5 shots at 100 yards.

Several years ago I obtained an arbor press and seat my bullets in a Lee Loader die. No screwing around with seater stems.

Thanks I do intend to get a couple of collet dies try them out. I don't know if you have read this thread from the beginning but the whole discussion was started in my effort to compare collet to bushing type dies and my desire to simplify and standardize my die sets to use the same process.

The reason I currently use the button sizer with the bushing die is because I do not turn case necks. With that being said, I would rather transfer any differences in neck thickness to the outside of the cartridge rather than the inside.

This of course is another reason why I am considering adopting the collet dies versus the bushing dies that I have been using.

As you may read above also I am considering just using a standard full length sizing die in combination with a Competition seating die and partial or FL resize as necessary for everything for further simplification since I am first and foremost hunter and certainly not a benchrest shooter.

I typically like to FL size any rounds that I am taking afield just to eliminate the variable of trying to fit a tight case in a chamber where there could be debris involved.

twofish

I like Wilson dies too, I decided to get a Wilson seater for my 7WSM because I didn't want to pay 100.00 for a Redding Comp seater.



it requires lube to turn the necks. And the bushing dies work just fine without neck turning but any variation in neck thickness is transferred to the inside and concentricity is only as good as the neck thickness...but you know that I am sure.




I read it from the beginning, I am trying to get away from neck turning and bushing dies, as long as Lee has a collet die or they make a custom die that I need. If the collet dies produce equal or less runout than bushing dies and I don't have to lube and turn necks it's a win for me.

I didn't catch the reason you are full length sizing.

Typically use full length sizing for hunting rounds because it take one variable out of the equation.

Any debris on round/in chamber coupled with a tight fitting neck sized case can spell trouble.

Chances of it happening may be slim but I have seen it before.

In my experience a shoulder bump is required at minimum after several firings of neck sized brass and as brass work hardens especially with hot loads FL sizing is required at some point anyway.

There is still likely a benefit to using a collet or bushing die to size the neck and a body die to reduce the case body. It's case life. Quite often a FL die cold works the case necks a good bit more than necessary.

Had not really thought of it in that regard Mathman. I respect your knowledge on this subject and believe your comments.

As you know I have been aspiring to simplify/standardize my reloading practices for accuracy and reliability with out having any more moving parts/bushings/dollars spent than seem necessary.

Since I am first and foremost a shooter of critters rather than paper I had begun to consider going with a two piece system (Full Length Bushing or Standard sizer and a Competition Seater) thus eliminating the separate neck sizer completely.

In light of your comments though regarding brass life perhaps I have been too hasty and need to return to the original three piece system I had been considering when studying the collet die at the start of this thread. (A Bushing or Collet Neck Sizer, Body Sizer, and a Competition Seater)

With this system I could neck size only when shooting paper or developing loads, body sizing as required for hunting loads separately while enjoy the added benefit of extending brass life as a by-product.

Thanks for the insight and helping think through this.

twofish

We're almost on the same wavelength.

My comment about brass life was only about the working of the neck. If you body size, but just enough for smooth chambering, the body of the brass will usually out last the neck even when collet sizing.

I have a rifle that does better with body and neck sized cases than it does with just neck sized. But since I only bump the shoulder a little bit I don't get the case head separation ring before I'm ready to retire the brass.

I see. Just curious as to your personal thoughts on using a FL Bushing die to neck size and bump shoulder then full length size as required? In doing this all I would be saving is the cost of body die and not sure that the compromise of Partial FL sizing is worth it.

twofish

I'm not sure I understand the highlighted phrase. A FL bushing die does FL size.

What I meant was to use the FL bushing die to neck size and just bump the shoulder when that is all you want and then use it to Full Length size the case on occasion as required or for hunting loads in my case. Thus eliminating the body only die.

I have typically not been a fan of partial sizing (neck size only and shoulder bump if wanted) with a full length die. I guess my question was do you think this is an adequate application to preserve brass life or would you suggest just using the third die (body die) for all shoulder and body sizing and forget about the two die approach all together?

Thanks,

twofish

I still don't think you're clear on how the FL bushing die works. If you have it set so the shoulder is getting bumped, then the body is getting sized too.

A body die does the sides and shoulder of the case body. A FL bushing die is a body die in effect, with a provision for holding a bushing on top to size the neck.

I think I understand that the only difference in a standard FL Die an a FL Bushing is in the neck itself. What I was trying to describe was what some call "partial full length resizing". I have always understood this to mean rather than setting a FL Die of either type to fully engage the shell holder and cam over it can be set up not to fully engage but left short so as to resize the majority of the length of the neck but only partially resize the remainder of the case. (Not fully setting the shoulder back or fully resizing the body as would be done with the die set to fully engage.)

Perhaps this is splitting hairs as I have never liked the concept anyway and felt that was really a compromise of all the tasks.

I was just curious as to your thoughts on using a FL Die in tis manner.

OK, it has been a terminology issue somewhat.

Nevertheless, I can think of only one circumstance where I'd want to fully move the shoulder and/or body back to like new dimensions anyway. That's when I'm preparing brass fired in rifle A, and I'm going to use it in rifle B without having rifle B in hand to set up optimum sizing.

The instructions included with FL size dies, in most circumstances, will have you sizing the brass a good bit more than necessary for fit and function.

Knocking the shoulder back a couple of thousandths, along with whatever body sizing comes with that, is plenty. That is full length sizing, but not overdoing it.

Agreed.

Thanks again for your input.

twofish

Heres a "wish" for 2014...but being the manufacturers are so busy I know it will never happen.
Beer makers make "light" beer.

I want die makers not to make small base dies but shoot for a "light" die. One that minimally sizes brass and has a neck area that takes a neck wall of .013" down to .003" grip.
If they'd do this the expander ball would work so minimally you wouldn't wreck runnout when pulling the ball through the neck area. Make a slick surfaced ball and you probably wouldn't need lube...maybe some kind of "delrin" expander or something.
I'd buy dies like this and set them to touch the shoulders of my cases and smile like crazy every time I used them. My old standard dies would collect dust.

twofish, that is what I said regarding the carbide button, even though it does not require lube, the FL die sizes the neck down below what is needed and the button sizes it up. The collet die and bushing die eliminates one step.

No matter what method you use, it only takes a few minutes to confirm every big-game hunting round chambers.

What you are describing is what I would call Partial Neck Sizing, but opinions differ on terminology



You can do this by putting a washer on top of the shell holder around the case head with a Lee Collet



If you do it with a FL die then you need to set it so that the die does not size the case body or it will balloon the shoulder forward and cause difficult chambering. Once you squeeze the case body then the only way to alleviate a crush fit is to set the die down far enough to push the shoulder back.

Thanks, good info Woods and a good thought with the washers.

I am thinking though that if I go to the collet die I would continue to size the entire neck.

I am also thinking that what you posted early on is where I am leaning. That is where my head was to begin with.

From woods post:

"2. For me, a perfect set of dies is a Lee Collet, Redding Body Die and Competition Seater. This is as far as I want to go as I do not Benchrest and only load for hunting, but do like to have the finest hunting load I can make. I do send off to Lee for smaller mandrels to increase bullet grip to .002" or .003" in some of the more often loaded calibers."

twofish

This is a big part of the reason I have been thinking about going to the collet dies. Besides not overworking necks and no bushings to buy it seems to be the best way to size necks and keep thickness variations on the outside without neck turning.

I really like the idea of not having to pull a sizer back through to do this and I just don't want to start neck turning brass.

twofish

That would be great but I don't know if they would do this due to SAAMI worries.

It may be that one would have to provide a fired case to the die makers and have a custom die made for your chamber. That would not be cheap though I am sure.

twofish

http://www.warner-tool.com/reloading.htm

There ya go!

I did not see what they cost though...? But with 30, 40, or 50 reloads as they claim the cost may well be worth it if primer pockets don't give out.

twofish

Owned several Redding Competition bushing die sets. Sold them after I tried Forster Ultra seaters. Several reasons to prefer Forster Benchrest or Ultra seaters.

As to sizers, use only Redding Type S FL. Why? Versatility. Can use one Redding die for several variant ctgs. I shoot a wildcat .338/300win mag. The Redding .300win Type S die has enough recess at the shoulder to accommodate fired .338/300 brass; just have to use a .360-ish neck bushing and you're set!

Have a .243win AI die that I reamed on lathe to open up the shoulder to .308win neck dimension when I needed a sizer for my .308win AI rem 700 tactical.

I use a .260rem to size 7mm-08 rounds,and a .30-06 Type S to size .338-06. Nice to have Reddings tapered size buttons for neck-up jobs.

Pretty easy to make bushings, if you have a lathe and a boring bar. 1/2" round stock is all it takes.

Lots of versatility in the Redding Type S FL dies. Can't see a reason for a neck die or a body die. If you have the S FL, you have all 3... Redding says just pull the decap stem and you have a body die.


I like Forster's die chamber seaters, because of their interchangeable parts and Forster's willingness, unlike Redding, to sell die chambers and seating stems so, for about $35, you can buy the parts needed to use your Ultra or Benchrest die for another cartridge; unlike Redding who will not sell die chambers. I really have come to prefer the Benchrest seater as they are simpler and deliver the same fine quality, minimal runout ammunition.

BTW, most runout is going to be a factor of alignment with your press, shellholder and the die. Locking-down the decap rod while pin is centered in primer flash hole will produce a consistency of alignment. Using undersized ball or the straight, no ball, deprime pin that comes with Redding Type S means you get no out of kilter "pull" from the neck sizing ball.

Need a correct sized ball to uniform necks that have been distorted/bent etc, but that is pretty unlikely for single-loaded bench-fired rounds in a range environment.

One more matter of heresy to discuss: Do you "need" a cartridge specific seating die at all?

I am using a Forster 6.5/284 die body to load my .260rem rounds.

I size them on the Type S and use the bushing for neck tension desired. The body of the die chamber is larger by about .027", but the neck diameter is the same. I have not seen any difference in finished rounds effectiveness/accuracy, and get no case distortion.

Hornady used to catalog bore diameter/caliber specific seaters. Basically, as long as the cartridge isn't too fat in the body to enter the die, they work fine and produce no run-out.

+1. The internals are interchangeable for different lengths. I have 4 with different internals which I swap for cartridges for which I don't have the Forster seaters.

I haven't found them to do as good a job as the Redding and Forster competition type seaters. I've tried 223, 243, and 308 sizes. In the 308 size, the Hornady didn't prove to be consistently better than a regular RCBS die for 300 Savage cartridges.