Just wondering if anyone has ever had a rifle that just wouldn't shoot good. I had a remington cdl sf limited in 257 Roberts that I tried everything on and best group I ever got out of it was 1 1/4"- 1 1-1/2" groups at 100yrds. I know it's not horrible but I'm anal if it won't shoot sub 1" I'm not happy. When I first got gun best group I got was 3-4" groups, had to get rid of it before I drove myself crazy....lol.
Anyone else had an experience like this?

The "need" of a rifle that will shoot <1 MOA on demand and repeatedly is grossly overrated! And it is on demand & repeatedly that is important.
IMHO
Cheers

I fire lapped a couple of rifles and they shot much better.See my post. https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth..._Tubb_s_Final_Finish_Bullet_#Post8469333

Yes I have had rifles that just would not shoot even after bed, trigger and crown.

I always start with Sierra MK's because if it won't shoot them then it isn't going to shoot anything else.

For load work I always use a target scope of known quality.

HOWEVER if you don't want to waist time and money bore scope the barrel first. I would look for missing rifling. I have seen several.

If I cant get em to shoot, I'll re-barrel or save the action for a project, I'll not knowlingly sell a POS headache to someone else.

Gunner

I had a Kimber 84M in .243 that treated me like that. I tried lighter bullets, heavier bullets, slower powders, faster powders, swapped scopes, killed chickens at midnight under a full moon...but the last thing I wanted to do was screw with the bedding since the factory bedding job was truly a thing of beauty. But screw with it I did. That rifle just would not shoot under about three inches no matter what I did or tried, and it was such a disappointment because it was a joy to carry and to look at. It got sent down the road and I have been much happier since.

I had a Kimber 84M in 7MM-08 that was the biggest piece of crap I every owned. Did the same as RiverRider with bullets,powder, even put one of my 36X Leupold on it and the best I could get out of it was 3". I even took one of 6PPC to the range with me when shooting the Kimber to make sure its wasn't me and it wasn't. It went down the road in a hurry then I bought 2 each Remington Ti in 7MM-08 and 30-06 and been happy since. Should of got the Remingtons in the first place and saved myself from getting p!ssed off

I have a standing rule on my big game rifles. Groups can be no larger than 1.5" and the rifle has to shoot them or smaller consistantly.
One of my favorite rifle of all time was a 1903 Mannlicher- Schoenaur that some low life liberated from my truck while I was having a pit stop in Elko Nevada. For years I looked for a replacement that was in decent shape and reasonably affordable.
No such luck. Then Ruger came out with their RSI and after fondling one I knew I wanted one. At that time we were just getting into a new house so any gun buying had to be put on hold. One day looking in the want ads, I spotted olne for sale in .308 Win. at a more than reasonable price so I gave the guy a call and went to see the gun after work. I'm thinking it's probably beat up but no, it was not only not beat up buy cherry as hell. I had to ask why the low price and was told the gun was inaccurate as all hell. Gun fit is important to me and this thing fit me like it was custom made for me. I bought it. The guy threw in a bunch of brass, bullets a can of powder and a couple of boxes of factory ammo. Said he was through with the .308 forever.
He was right. On a good day a 3" groups was about the best the gun would do and sometimes only 4" groups. You name it, I tried it to no avail. Then I started tgrying powder not so well suited to the .308. One day, while working with W760 and the 165 gr. Speer Hot Core I got the first group that fell into what I would accept, 1.5" at 100 yards. I gave the rifle almost a half hour to cool down and tried another group. Again I got 1.5". I've since relieved that metal nose cap a bit and now groups are more often than not in the 1.25" range. After two long years, I finally got that rifle to a point that I can use it. The load is no speed demon at 2550 FPS but the deer that I've shot with that load haven't complained one bit Since then I I've picked up two more of those Ruger RSI rifles, all in .308 that sold cheap because their owners said they were inaccurate and worked up with the same load with W760 and the 165 gr. Speer and they've shot within my criteria. Funny thing (pecliar, not ha ha)is switch to a different 165 gr. bullet and accuracy goes all to hell. Those three rifles truly are my one trick ponies.
Paul B.

My first 30-06 was like PJ's. Rem. 700 ADL. wood stock. Tried 150's, 165's, 180's even some round nose 150's and the best group I got was 3-4".
Swapped powder, primers, brass everything but sacrificing a chicken at midnight under a full moon (have to remember that one for the next non-shooter gun).
Bedded the action, floated the barrel, changed triggers even had a guy scope it. Nothing.
Got rid of it at a gun show.
Have an older 700 Mtn rifle that will shoot 165's under .7" for two shots before the barrel heats up and puts the 3rd one about 1/2" off. Need to play with the barrel channel on that one but with two shots that tight, I haven't bothered.

On another note. I know that Sako will chop an action, barrel and stock into pieces if it doesn't pass their 1 MOA tests. That's on both the Sako brand and the Tikka. Took a tour of their factory in the early 2000's and we asked why the 'nice' wood was cut up. We were told "that's from the few guns that just won't shoot the way we expect them to".

I ;icked up a used Kimber Classic. 308. The thing would top out at around 1 1/2". I borescoped it and the barrel was rough. It has a ring about 2" from the muzzle that I could actually feel with a tight patch. I called Kimber and discussed that with them. The answer was 1 1/2" groups were w/i their specs. Well, not mine, and for not with a .308.

I liked the gun enough and was into it cheap enough that I could warrant a new tube. It now has a 23" Broughton 5C and will shoot 3/8" with selected loads. The slightly longer, slightly heavier barrel ballances better than the pencil wt. factory tube and for sure shoots a heap better.

DF

I had the same experience with the same gun but in .264 Win. Floated it, bedded it, installed a Timney, swapped scopes, bases, rings, burned a ton of powder and lead... no joy. Finally took it to a smith who told me it was an extremely poor barrel - I had him take it apart and then sold off the good parts. Traded "down" to a Tikka that I have to force to shoot bad.

Sometimes one just won't shoot.

Kenny Jarrett was been known to cut a problem rifle into pieces with a chop saw. Reportedly, he has some displayed on his shop wall, just to show how relentless he is in the pursuit of excellence.

Maybe a bit theatrical, but does make a point...

DF

Lemons "happen" to everyone if you slum enough rifles.

The one's I hate the most are those that shoot if you run them 200-250 fps below the cartridge's potential; but fall apart at top end.

Those things are dishonest...at least a bad rifle let's you know it's bad and is honest about it.

Yeah I know velocity isn't everything....but buying a 7 Mag and getting a hot loaded 7x57 is like buying a 3-9 variable that won't crank to 9X.

Yeah, know what you're saying.

Those tend to travel down the road...

DF

I have one. Its like a bad girlfriend. I used it to kill my biggest mule deer and love the gun. But I can't get it to shoot no matter how hard I try.

I thought my 7 was like that, but switched powder and it's been running like a top ever since . Sometimes you can't go with what's popular, you gotta go with what your rifle likes. My rifles are man made mechanical pieces and I treat them as such: Most that I've had have been strong performers after a little tweaking..,

A rem 700 ss synthetic in 25-06..... pulled my hair out!

Dirtfarmer:

I will never ever buy a Kimber rifle again!

This is my only and I have no itch for another.

Some seem to like them.

DF

I had a model 70 Winchester that spit bullets all over the target. I switched powder, bullet and even brass with the same results. I could find nothing wrong with the rifle other than it would not group. I always packed it to the range each visit and threw a few rounds down range. Somewhere around the 300th round the thing started putting just about any load in the bull. I just considered it an extra long break in and accepted the results.

mine was a savage in 222. 4-6 inches
sold it to my sister because it had been our older brothers(God rest him). she wanted it or I'd have put a .223 barrel on it just to see.

Worst: Ruger #1 in 243. Tried everything and it would spray at 100. Sold it.

Second worst: Custom 6.5-06, sprayed past 100yds. Barrel maker agreed to give me new barrel. Got it back it again it sprayed past 100yds. Sold off the parts.

Last: Remington ADL n 204. This finicky gun will only shoot one load accurately. 35gr Bergers. Tried a bunch of other loads, scopes, stocks etc, and it would hover around 2" at 100. Not good enough for a varmint gun.

My Christmas present in 1981 was a 788 rifle from Dad, chambered in .243 Win. It was a 2-4 MOA proposition in my preteen hands, but it did account for an enormous whitetail buck.

25 years later, after a long lapse in shooting/hunting, I pulled it back out of the cabinet, and even with a marked improvement in my shooting skills, it was still a 2-4 MOA rifle, regardless of bullet brand, weight or type, powder, primer� anything.

Discarding my first rifle was out of the question, so I consulted Mickey Coleman. He prognosticated it had a bad barrel, and made me an offer I couldn't refuse to rebarrel it in 7mm-08. Now it shoots like this:







And I am happy.



So happy, I sent the stock to Karnis to get some love. So I've now put several times the original purchase price into making it shoot well and feel good in my hands.







And it will have even more stories behind it when I pass it along to my yout's. But for the sentimental attachment, it would have been long gone.

FC

My worst was a early 70s Ruger M-77 in 7x57.
I spent a whole summer spraying bullets at a targets.
Finally found it would shoot v-e-r-y long Sierra's into 2"s on a wonderfully good (or perhaps lucky) day

Sent it to local gunsmith that shoved a 280 reamer into the chamber & turned it back one thread.
PRESTO.
It'll shoot 1 to 1 1/2" all day with most loads & I have lots of targets with groups in the 3/4" range.

It's now my "go to" gun & has accounted for lots of moose, deer & a few wolves

This very rifle loaded with 100 grain GS customs over a max load of Hybrid 100 V has proven to be one of my favorite tack drivers.

Been sucked down the rat hole of accuracy? Why yes I have. Bought an old M700 in 223 for a cheap varminter. After lots of loads, bedding, replacing the barrel and stock and rebedding and more loads it will shoot 1/2 inch.
Can't say how much I spent on a cheap varminter and don't want to know.
For you guys with bad experiences on Kimbers, I have one that shoots OK but has some issues. I pulled it out of the stock the other day to check the bedding (Super America with walnut stock) and you are right, the bedding is a thing of beauty. Trouble is, the stock was not inletted enough for the action to seat in the bedding! A little work with a Dremel and we will see...

I wore out a 22/250 and a 243 barrel on a 700 platform, trying to get good groups of 1/2" or less. I had a very popular expensive well known scope on the rifle(high power). As the 243 barrel was getting long in the throat, I changed out the scope, darn thing started shooting 1/2" group. Went to other loads, tiny groups.

I had a New rifle of another brand with a long throat(new) that would only shoot 1" groups.

There was an instance of an off brand in 7 Mag that I spent all Summer working on with no luck at all.

Many of the old Ruger tang safety and #1's had crap for barrels. The barrels that Ruger puts on their rifles today are top notch.

Most of the issues related to rifles that won't shoot are related to bedding, barrel touching stock, bad scopes, mag boxes pushing up on the center of the action. It is not common knowledge how the regular guy can tweek out his gun for accuracy.

Another issue that is taboo is how wind effects accuracy. Shooters refuse to address the issue of how wind moves bullets around. A $60-$100 wind flag will save you hundreds in reloading components and you will get more enjoyment out of your shooting equipment.

Some flagging stuck on the end of a dowel rod is actually pretty helpful.

I wore out a 22/250 and a 243 barrel on a 700 platform, trying to get good groups of 1/2" or less. I had a very popular expensive well known scope on the rifle(high power). As the 243 barrel was getting long in the throat, I changed out the scope, darn thing started shooting 1/2" group. Went to other loads, tiny groups.

I had a New rifle of another brand with a long throat(new) that would only shoot 1" groups.

There was an instance of an off brand in 7 Mag that I spent all Summer working on with no luck at all.

Many of the old Ruger tang safety and #1's had crap for barrels. The barrels that Ruger puts on their rifles today are top notch.

Most of the issues related to rifles that won't shoot are related to bedding, barrel touching stock, bad scopes, mag boxes pushing up on the center of the action. It is not common knowledge how the regular guy can tweek out his gun for accuracy.

Another issue that is taboo is how wind effects accuracy. Shooters refuse to address the issue of how wind moves bullets around. A $60-$100 wind flag will save you hundreds in reloading components and you will get more enjoyment out of your shooting equipment.

Copper fouling proved to be the biggest problem with my 300 Weatherby. I cleaned the rifle regularly but only with Hoppes #9. It could not consistently shoot better than 2" groups and often much worse.

With a 1/12 twist and a pencil barrel it is not meant for pounding away at the range with spitzer boat tails. I chased many leads but in the end, it was the copper. After extensive cleaning I can consistently put together 1 moa groups with the right load. That is as good as the factory advertised back in 62 when the rifle was made.

In the process of chasing many leads to improve the accuracy I must say I learned a lot and am the better for it. I will continue to try different loads to see if the rifle can do better, but with its light weight barrel, long freebore and fast twist it was not meant to be a 600 yd varminter. Hit big animals real hard is what it does. I use it accordingly.

I have a 7mm RUM that drove me nuts. I bought it used and had no prior knowledge of how it shot.

I tried a bunch of different powders and bullets. Eventually tried a box of factory ammo to see how it would shoot. Even the factory stuff was terrible.

The barrel fouled really bad as well. From a perfectly clean barrel, 3-5 shots down the tube and it would take a whole night of cleaning.

After a few nights of lapping the bore with JB Bore, I sealed everything up with Ultra Bore Coating and the rifle started to behave.

It wasn't much after that when I could consistently put 3 shots into a dime sized hole at 200 yards.

Wow...that's a really nice rifle to be so disappointed with.

Doc

I have a Ruger 77 in 250 savage made in the 70's that will not hit the barn in the same place,even when standing inside the barn.
With 87-100 grain bullets of various makers it would not repeat.
One day i loaded some 75 grains for another rifle and thought i would take it along,while not in the 2inch range it did repeat the shots.
Tried several powders as well.

It sets in my shop now waiting for me to shoot some 80grain lead cast in it again.

It did shoot the first real good.
I think along that time that had some crappy barrels.

I've had the same experience with a couple Win 70 Classics. The first one, a 308 no less, wouldn't shoot well even after bedded in a McMillan and free-floated. I then decided that its role was as a utility rifle and not a hunting rifle. It got shot hard with FMJ ammo a few times until the barrel got good and hot, then whatdoyaknow, it all of a sudden started shooting! It now groups pretty much everything into an MOA or less. I call it a "redneck break-in" and have started doing that with any rifle that won't shoot well out of the box.

Bought a brand new M70 in left hand action, caliber 338 and with several handloads it wouldn't hit due east! After I got through with it.....it shot just fine!!

Jgotro,



When I had one I took it to the gunsmith and had an adjustable muzzle brake installed. It went from a consistent two minute rifle to 2" at 300 on a bad day. The best it did was 1/2" at 300 yards!