Looking for a powder to give me the most speed using the Nosler 150 grain AB / LR
New 25" Benchmark stainless 5R bbl.
Have RL 22 - IMR 7828.
Thinking Reloader 26?
While I think you are on the right track with 7828 for well balanced loads, if max velocity is your goal, you might trial 4350, RL19 or RL17.
Of those listed, RL22 will be the closest.
4350, rl19, and rl17 are all to fast to be optimum with a 150gr bullet in the .270.
H4831, Rl22, magpro, will give close to top velocities.
The proven combo in the .270 win is to work up to max with H4831.
IMHO the question is almost impossible to answer.It's hard to predict which of the OP's powders will provide top velocities in his 25" Banchmark...we may have a general idea but all the powders he lists could end up being the top powders.
But i doubt much more than 75-100 fps will separate all of them.And we wo't be doing the loading and have no idea how far the OP will push things, where he thinks the ceiling should be.
But if I were a betting man....
given the 25" barrel, and based on what I have seen myself with manual loads of RL25 in the 270, I would put my money on the RL26 with Fed 215's to lead the pack. It's slowest and the 25" barrel will take full advantage.
I'd expect RL22 to be #2,simply because it's capable of pretty giddy velocities in the 270 even though you gotta be careful with it.
Of course it's all a WAG on my part.
I figure You would need close to a 28" barrel to get everything out of RL26. Your loads would already be compressed with RL22, so I doubt you could get enough RL26 in the case to surpass it.
IMR 7828 is one of the top performing powders in the 270, and since you already have some I'd use it.
Reloader 23, 26, IMR 7977 are also likely candidates.
I have high expectations for Reloader 26 when it's in stock.
In your longer barrel, the slower powders have some time to do their work for you.
I'm interested to see how the temp sensitivity claims hold up for the newer powders.
You'll be hard pressed to find anything better than RL-22 for velocity & accuracy...........it will beat 7828 on velocity every day, all day, & while 4831 is always good accuracy wise, it's not in the game with '22 velocity wise.
It will also beat '25 as well.
That from my 24" & 22" barreled guns............
MM
But if I were a betting man....
given the 25" barrel, and based on what I have seen myself with manual loads of RL25 in the 270, I would put my money on the RL26 with Fed 215's to lead the pack. It's slowest and the 25" barrel will take full advantage.
I'd expect RL22 to be #2,simply because it's capable of pretty giddy velocities in the 270.
That's my thinking.
You'll be hard pressed to find anything better than RL-22 for velocity & accuracy...........it will beat 7828 on velocity every day, all day, & while 4831 is always good accuracy wise, it's not in the game with '22 velocity wise.
It will also beat '25 as well.
That from my 24" & 22" barreled guns....
Didn't know that, glad to hear as I have 2 full cans of RL 22 to work with.
Nosler shows a book maximum load of 56.5 grains @ 2902 fps using a 24" bbl
I figure You would need close to a 28" barrel to get everything out of RL26. Your loads would already be compressed with RL22, so I doubt you could get enough RL26 in the case to surpass it.
AS: I bet the load would be pretty well compressed. But with a 150 it may surprise us.
Working from memory here a bit but IIRC I used the old blue Barnes 130 gr bullet(which had that super slick coating) and used the manual load of 65 gr RL25.It was heavily compressed but gave 3200 fps from a 22" barrel of a M70 Classic FW. Pressures seemed OK. So I am figuring that if I got RL25 to work with a 130, no reason it won't do well with a 150.
So sure, a 28" barrel would be better but it proved to me it would work in a 22" barrel as well. I started down the path of doing more work with the cartridge and RL25 but just got sidetracked .
Fred Barker did a great article in Precision Shooter several years ago on very slow powders in the 270 and RL25 was one of them, along with MagPro. He used a 26" PacNor IIRC and the results were pretty impressive. The gist of the article were that the 270 with heavy bullets works better with very slow burners,than it does with powders we have come to regard as "traditional".
Anyway RL26 is a newer powder and I'd still try it and think it would do well...it may not be "fastest" of those three but that equation can easily change from one rifle to another regardless what manuals say.
That's where I'd start.
Postscript: Beretz texted me Alliant loading data today for the 270 and 150 gr bullet.
Lo and behold......RL26 showed 3034 fps from a 24" barrel with 60.4 gr and 150 gr bullet.WW brass and Fed 210 primer.
It was higher than RL23 and RL17.
Bob,I use RL-26 in my FN Mauser .270. In the 22" barrel it's getting an average of 3010 fps with Federal brass,Fed 210 Match primer and 150 gr NP.
H4831 might not be in the game with RL22, but when it's 10 below zero, I believe H4831 will outrun it. Even if it doesn't, H4831 won't show the temperature sensitivity and possible changes in point of impact that RL 22 will show. If you want a powder to get high velocities in the summer so you can post them on the internet for bragging rights, I'd choose RL22, but for a reliable hunting load, I'll take the temperature stable H4831 every time.
I doubt even in warm weather that RL22 would show a difference in velocity that you could see in the field.
eklhuntr: Well....there you go. I had a hint about this using RL25. I understand that H4831 is the powder for the 270; but it appears there are other powders of slower burning rate that are suitable,too. Only point being we have more options today than we did when H4831 ruled the roost.
Royce: The last 270 barrel that I shot out,a Krieger,showed a decided accuracy preference for RL 22,the reason I went to it over H4831 in that rifle, which I continued to use in other 270's.
With H4831 it was merely OK,but it bug holed with RL22 loaded to the same velocity level. Don't know why...just a characteristic of that particular rifle.
I hunted it a lot and of course there was no difference in performance between those I fed one vs the other.
I figure You would need close to a 28" barrel to get everything out of RL26. Your loads would already be compressed with RL22, so I doubt you could get enough RL26 in the case to surpass it.
AS: I bet the load would be pretty well compressed. But with a 150 it may surprise us.
Working from memory here a bit but IIRC I used the old blue Barnes 130 gr bullet(which had that super slick coating) and used the manual load of 65 gr RL25.It was heavily compressed but gave 3200 fps from a 22" barrel of a M70 Classic FW. Pressures seemed OK. So I am figuring that if I got RL25 to work with a 130, no reason it won't do well with a 150.
So sure, a 28" barrel would be better but it proved to me it would work in a 22" barrel as well. I started down the path of doing more work with the cartridge and RL25 but just got sidetracked .
Fred Barker did a great article in Precision Shooter several years ago on very slow powders in the 270 and RL25 was one of them, along with MagPro. He used a 26" PacNor IIRC and the results were pretty impressive. The gist of the article were that the 270 with heavy bullets works better with very slow burners,than it does with powders we have come to regard as "traditional".
Anyway RL26 is a newer powder and I'd still try it and think it would do well...it may not be "fastest" of those three but that equation can easily change from one rifle to another regardless what manuals say.
That's where I'd start.
Bob, I revitalized my Quickload this weekend and there were a few surprises in it for me.
Quickload agrees with your prediction and puts RL26 at the top of the pack. RL25 can potentially beat it IF you can get enough in the case. ADI AR2213 (the Aussie name for H4831sc) also predicts very well. As for other new powders, RL17 was another top performer, and I was surprised to see CFE 223 predicting higher then Hybrid 100v.
Good call Bob. Now lets just hope the OP can find some RL26 and give us a range report.
Cartridge : .270 Win. (SAAMI)
Bullet : .277, 150, Nosler PART SP 16323
Useable Case Capaci: 60.130 grain H2O = 3.904 cm³
Cartridge O.A.L. L6: 3.340 inch = 84.84 mm
Barrel Length : 25.0 inch = 635.0 mm
Predicted Data for Indicated Charges of the Following Powders.
Matching Maximum Pressure: 64000 psi, or 441 MPa
or a maximum loading ratio or filling of 110 %
These calculations refer to your specified settings in QuickLOAD 'Cartridge Dimensions' window.
C A U T I O N : any load listed can result in a powder charge that falls below minimum suggested
loads or exceeds maximum suggested loads as presented in current handloading manuals. Understand
that all of the listed powders can be unsuitable for the given combination of cartridge, bullet
and gun. Actual load order can vary, depending upon lot-to-lot powder and component variations.
USE ONLY FOR COMPARISON !
88 loads produced a Loading Ratio below user-defined minimum of 75%. These powders have been skipped.
Powder type Filling/Loading Ratio Charge Charge Vel. Prop.Burnt P max P muzz B_Time
% Grains Gramm fps % psi psi ms
--------------------------------- -----------------------------------------------------------------
Alliant Reloder-26 102.9 61.3 3.97 3119 100.0 64000 11901 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
Norma MRP 103.8 60.0 3.89 3094 100.0 64000 12064 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N560 105.5 59.8 3.87 3088 98.5 64000 12398 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 517 108.2 64.0 4.15 3085 99.2 64000 12148 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 12 108.0 63.9 4.14 3084 99.2 64000 12125 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 70 100.5 59.3 3.85 3082 100.0 64000 11675 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate MAGPRO 105.8 62.3 4.04 3078 97.4 64000 12466 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 SSC 104.1 59.3 3.84 3072 98.8 64000 11974 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 7828 110.0 59.3 3.84 3071 98.8 63941 11972 1.150 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5/NP ~approximation 105.8 59.3 3.84 3063 99.6 64000 11906 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-22 105.8 59.3 3.84 3063 99.6 64000 11906 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA15 105.8 59.3 3.84 3063 99.6 64000 11906 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester WXR 108.6 59.6 3.86 3062 99.5 64000 11924 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP15 108.6 59.6 3.86 3062 99.5 64000 11924 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2213 105.0 58.9 3.81 3057 98.7 64000 11873 1.149 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 60 94.2 54.8 3.55 3052 100.0 64000 10699 1.158 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AP 2214 108.8 62.6 4.06 3046 98.9 64000 11690 1.147 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Magnum 105.4 63.6 4.12 3042 99.8 64000 11337 1.157 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-25 110.0 60.6 3.93 3040 100.0 60008 11513 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-23 108.4 58.8 3.81 3028 100.0 64000 10708 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho 17 93.1 54.1 3.51 3028 100.0 64000 10623 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-17 93.1 54.1 3.51 3028 100.0 64000 10623 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R905 107.0 58.8 3.81 3027 98.4 64000 11609 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP5 NT ~approximation 108.7 61.4 3.98 3020 97.0 64000 11717 1.154 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2209 101.9 56.2 3.64 3019 99.4 64000 11275 1.156 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-19 102.5 56.8 3.68 3017 99.5 64000 11344 1.164 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 511 94.8 56.0 3.63 3011 100.0 64000 10946 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP14 ~approximation 103.2 57.2 3.71 3010 99.4 64000 11262 1.165 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Hunter 98.0 56.1 3.63 3009 100.0 64000 10931 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 62 96.5 56.1 3.63 3009 100.0 64000 10709 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 760 92.5 54.2 3.52 3007 100.0 64000 10980 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H414 92.5 54.2 3.52 3007 100.0 64000 10980 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 ~approximation 100.4 55.6 3.60 2992 99.3 64000 11048 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA4 100.4 55.6 3.60 2992 99.3 64000 11048 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 204 97.2 55.6 3.60 2992 99.3 64000 11048 1.166 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S365 99.6 54.9 3.56 2991 100.0 64000 10136 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 107.8 58.1 3.76 2990 98.1 64000 11192 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4831 SC 103.6 58.1 3.76 2990 98.1 64000 11192 1.162 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N550 94.8 53.7 3.48 2986 100.0 64000 10592 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
Norma URP 97.5 53.5 3.46 2985 100.0 64000 10452 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP19 ~approximation 97.5 53.5 3.47 2985 100.0 64000 10449 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Accurate 4350 96.6 53.6 3.47 2980 100.0 64000 10403 1.195 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S385 102.7 57.5 3.73 2978 99.8 64000 10812 1.184 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N570 110.0 64.3 4.17 2969 92.9 53325 12986 1.250
Winchester Supreme 780 100.9 59.0 3.82 2967 99.4 64000 10762 1.170 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP4 NT ~approximation 98.0 55.1 3.57 2967 99.9 64000 10617 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4831 102.3 54.3 3.52 2966 100.0 64000 10219 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP30 110.0 61.0 3.95 2964 98.1 54924 12105 1.244
Norma MRP 2 110.0 61.0 3.95 2964 98.1 54924 12105 1.244
Accurate 3100 105.8 58.6 3.80 2964 100.0 64000 10464 1.197 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R904 101.2 55.3 3.58 2962 98.7 64000 10784 1.168 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N165 108.0 59.2 3.84 2962 99.7 64000 10556 1.175 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 11 91.2 52.2 3.38 2961 100.0 64000 10069 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Big Game 88.2 52.1 3.38 2955 100.0 64000 9962 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon CFE223 83.3 51.5 3.33 2952 100.0 64000 9942 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4350 99.9 54.2 3.51 2951 99.8 64000 10428 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S070 97.2 53.3 3.45 2951 100.0 64000 10429 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4895 88.0 48.8 3.16 2950 100.0 64000 9985 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4350 98.1 54.1 3.50 2950 99.8 64000 10405 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 52 88.6 50.7 3.29 2947 100.0 64000 9803 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Raufoss RA11 88.8 49.2 3.19 2945 100.0 64000 9952 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP11 ~approximation 88.8 49.2 3.19 2945 100.0 64000 9952 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-15 88.8 49.2 3.19 2945 100.0 64000 9952 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N160 108.0 57.4 3.72 2944 98.6 64000 10582 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H380 90.1 51.1 3.31 2943 100.0 64000 10097 1.186 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 NT ~approximation 92.2 51.6 3.34 2942 100.0 64000 10114 1.160 ! Near Maximum !
Alliant Reloder-33 110.0 67.0 4.34 2940 93.0 52633 12797 1.259
Norma 203B 89.2 49.5 3.20 2940 100.0 64000 9874 1.185 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon Hybrid 100V 100.1 53.7 3.48 2939 100.0 64000 9625 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 516 87.0 51.4 3.33 2936 100.0 64000 9992 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
ReloadSwiss RS 50 90.2 52.0 3.37 2933 100.0 64000 10116 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R907 95.1 51.7 3.35 2932 99.8 64000 10287 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP7 95.1 51.7 3.35 2932 99.8 64000 10287 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4007 SSC 92.1 51.8 3.35 2931 99.8 64000 10280 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S361 100.1 59.1 3.83 2930 98.1 64000 10578 1.179 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon BL-C2 83.9 50.7 3.29 2928 100.0 64000 9742 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot Wild Boar 84.4 50.0 3.24 2927 100.0 64000 9739 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 4320 90.8 49.5 3.21 2927 100.0 64000 9607 1.171 ! Near Maximum !
Elcho TR140 - preliminary data 89.8 51.4 3.33 2927 100.0 64000 9836 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S065 96.2 52.1 3.38 2926 100.0 64000 10017 1.187 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 90.4 50.6 3.28 2926 100.0 64000 9715 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
Norma 203 old 90.4 50.6 3.28 2926 100.0 64000 9715 1.199 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2206H 86.2 47.8 3.10 2925 100.0 64000 9717 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon H4895 85.8 47.6 3.08 2923 100.0 64000 9659 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Ramshot TAC 84.7 50.6 3.28 2922 100.0 64000 9926 1.177 ! Near Maximum !
Rottweil R903 92.4 50.7 3.28 2921 100.0 64000 9630 1.198 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 9 86.8 49.7 3.22 2919 100.0 64000 9647 1.180 ! Near Maximum !
Bofors RP3 NT ~approximation 93.8 51.7 3.35 2919 100.0 64000 9826 1.172 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S355 92.6 50.2 3.26 2918 100.0 64000 9656 1.192 ! Near Maximum !
SNPE Vectan SP 7 85.2 50.7 3.28 2916 100.0 64000 9754 1.188 ! Near Maximum !
Winchester 748 81.5 48.6 3.15 2916 100.0 64000 9405 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S071 110.0 57.7 3.74 2914 100.0 60189 10405 1.231 ! Near Maximum !
Hodgdon VARGET 91.8 49.2 3.19 2913 100.0 64000 9637 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2208 91.5 49.2 3.19 2913 100.0 64000 9637 1.173 ! Near Maximum !
ADI AR 2217 110.0 60.3 3.91 2905 97.5 54939 11336 1.230
Hodgdon H1000 110.0 60.3 3.91 2905 97.5 54939 11336 1.230
IMR 4064 92.3 48.3 3.13 2903 100.0 64000 9439 1.178 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S341 85.2 50.8 3.29 2902 100.0 64000 9394 1.183 ! Near Maximum !
PB Clermont PCL 507 83.7 48.4 3.14 2901 100.0 64000 9382 1.182 ! Near Maximum !
Somchem S321 82.0 48.9 3.17 2896 100.0 64000 9399 1.189 ! Near Maximum !
Vihtavuori N530 83.0 46.3 3.00 2893 100.0 64000 9280 1.181 ! Near Maximum !
Lovex S062 89.9 48.5 3.14 2891 100.0 64000 9289 1.193 ! Near Maximum !
IMR 8208 XBR 84.9 47.1 3.05 2886 100.0 64000 9190 1.181 ! Near Maximum !Just a note for all you home gamers out there.
This prediction was run at 64k PSI.
These are not starting loads.
3100 with a 150 PT?! Damn. We've come a long way as far as powders go. I don't know that it gets any better for western hunting.
The OP is actively shopping for RL26.
I also load for the .300 Weatherby magnum & this Alliant powder looks to be an outstanding choice in the 26" barreled Mark V as well.
41
I've got some RL-26 in transit to me right now, and hope to try it soon.
I have not seen RL-26 yet at any of my usual places.
I've got some RL-26 in transit to me right now, and hope to try it soon.
I look forward to your range report.
AS: Thanks for posting that. Interesting data.
You're right it's not easy to get 65 gr RL25 in a 270 case...but I did it. There was a lot of crunching when I seated those Barnes blue bullets.
I have to admit to being a little apprehensive when I started shooting because the load was so heavily compressed. But my impression was that the heavier bullets would work better. Still I guess i have to say the stuff works with 130's.
My LGS had some RL26 last time I was there,but I didn't buy any because I still have 4-5 pounds of 25 to eat through first. It has been a good powder in both the 7 Rem mag with 150's.
Thinking back it must have been 8-10 years ago that I tried the RL25...that Barker article was October 2004.....I am pretty sure i followed Barker's lead on using that powder in the 270.
65gr of RL25 in a .270 case. I have to say I'm impressed.
It must of been an old school Winchester case. Like 'ol Elmer Kieth, I generally use Winchester cases for the .270 because they remain the thinnest and allow the most powder.
I don't think I will be needing any RL26 for awhile. I have a nice supply of ADI AR2213 from a reloading plant that went out of business of few years back. That will keep several of my rifles fueled for a long time. At some point it sure would be fun to play with some in Dad's 26" barrel.
They were Winchester cases.
I put 61.5g of H4831SC in a W-W case with a 150g SST. The bullet pushed out a little bit due to the compressed load.
With the 24 inch barrel I got around 3040fps and nought in the way of pressure signals.
My rifle has a slightly large chamber ie 69+ grains capacity from fired Win cases.
I thought the fastest load in a long barrel was also the fastest load in a short barrel???
I thought the fastest load in a long barrel was also the fastest load in a short barrel???
Some people claim that, but they've never tested more the 3 or 4 powders at a time. Lets face it, not many folks have enough rifles with different barrel lengths to test. However if you run a simulation through quick load, which can test a couple hundred powders at all the barrel lengths you choose, it predicts that slower powders work better in longer barrels, and as you shorten the barrel marginally faster powders will take the top spot.
Yup.
For us the problem with testing different rifles with different barrel lengths, is that we assume the barrels are the "same" except for their length....and they almost never are. They can vary in small and minute ways that give different results.
Probably the best way at our disposal is to start with one barrel at, say 26" or whatever and cut it down as we go along. At least all we are changing is the length
Except that by the time you've tested enough powders you've changed the throat and chamber.
If I was to try to test this, I'd probably go to someone like Lijla and ask for multiple barrels with their best quality control for uniformity. Of course, that would cost more then using a single barrel, so hasn't been tried.
I'm satisfied enough with 2950-2975 out of a 22" barrel & a little more than 3000 out of a 24" barrel using a 150 Partition & RL-22 to forego any more time dicking with anything else. (The only exception might be '23 for the potentially better temp stability)
Or a 150 LRAB, or a 140 AB...............
All will provide sufficient velocity fueled by '22.
MM
I would say that setting up solely for testing velocity loss in different barrel lengths would be pretty much a waste of time for most of us....too much work
Working with a lot of rifles, you bump into stuff, even if you're not looking for it.
Maybe the point of all this gacking, is that increases in velocity have not come in quantum leaps,but in gradual increments as powders have gotten "better". The 30/06 started with 150's at 2700....today we load them routinely in the 3000 fps vicinity with newer powders. It only took 100 or so years
2950 with a 150 in the 270 has been around since JOC and H4831. I once "amazed" a pair of 7 Rem Mag owners with a Goens 270 that goosed a 150 across the screens at a shade over 3000.....I was surprised myself. I might have loaded too hot with H4831. Quien sabe?
So, finding another 100 fps for the 270 with modern slow burners can't be a bad thing....did we find a new velocity threshold with slower stuff like RL26 and Magpro? Maybe.
Les Bowman cured this issue decades ago with a IIRC, 30" barreled single shot .270 which reached closer to .270 Weatherby velocities.
Why stress the pressures with powder when a little more barrel will get you there?
Les Bowman cured this issue decades ago with a IIRC, 30" barreled single shot .270 which reached closer to .270 Weatherby velocities.
Why stress the pressures with powder when a little more barrel will get you there?
Yes.
I like 26" barrels for a reason.
I've been reading this tread and others, and it's making me itch to get my 270 build complete. Two questions.
Is 2950fps realistic with a 23.5" barrel shooting a 150(federal fusion)?
What is the realistic speed to expect for this load launched with H4831? Couple places tell me that 2800 is about all I can expect. I have H4831 on hand from my prior 270, and it did great with the 140s I was shooting.
I'm not one that thinks that pushing the envelop to get another 50fps makes a difference...I'd rather do it safe. Just want to know what to realistically expect.
NTG I am sure 2950 with your bullet and powder is safely doable.
You might just not get there with some manuals' max charges however. I had to push several grains above the Hodgdon / ADI published max to even get 2850fps.
Bob,
I'm thinking I can with some of these newer powders (RL-26 and maybe 7797).
I don't know that I'll want to push H4831 loads that hard to get there.
I have some RL-17 on hand that may get me there as well.
The "old" JOC load was 58.5 H4831 with the 150 gr bullet. He was using the WW II stuff and the old Partition with the relief groove. He said it gave 2950 from the 22" barrel of a M70 FW.
I've seen that velocity from M70's, Ruger M77's,Douglas barrels, and some others.
Drop the charge a grain or so and you can end up a bit above or below 2900 fps.
The differences, on game or over the chronograph, can vary rifle to rifle,and are not enough to write home about, on the chronograph or on animals.
Been awhile since I loaded any 150's in the 270....I just shoot 130's,and vary construction to suit.
You're more of a gacker than I am, Bob...........
MM
Is 2950fps realistic with a 23.5" barrel shooting a 150(federal fusion)?
I would be skeptical for factory ammo.
Please update us when your project is finished.
The "old" JOC load was 58.5 H4831 with the 150 gr bullet. He was using the WW II stuff and the old Partition with the relief groove. He said it gave 2950 from the 22" barrel of a M70 FW.
I have cracked 2900 fps in 22" w/ 58 grs Surplus 4831. The newer H 4831s have 'varied' from the surplus. I wasn't worried about the last 50fps.
Regardless, Good Luck!
You're more of a gacker than I am, Bob...........
MM
MM; Yeah...on here. People like to talk about it....me included.
Out hunting I usually don't give a shiddt....gacks over.Kill stuff.
I used to break 2900 with 59gr of the Scottish H4831. That load is fine with Winchester brass, but if you try it with Remington brass you might be fishing primers out of your magazine....
I have Winchester, Hornady and Nosler(brass) and use a 59 grain charge of H4831sc with 140 Accubonds in 2 different rifles.
The Nosler stamped brass weighs a fair amount less than the Winchester.
Give or take velocities.
22" = 2950-80fps.
24" = 3020-3060fps.
50-70F.
According my Chrony the 22" barrel velocity will be roughly 100 fps less when it's below zero(from 70F).
(if I remember correctly)
Is 2950fps realistic with a 23.5" barrel shooting a 150(federal fusion)?
I would be skeptical for factory ammo.
The fusions are actually pulled bullets I'll reload.
[quote=NTG]
Is 2950fps realistic with a 23.5" barrel shooting a 150(federal fusion)?
The fusions are actually pulled bullets I'll reload.
Now that's a color of a different horse.
It's mo better too, IMO.
Rocky mountain reloading had them in 130s and 150 the last time I checked...great price even for plinking.
OP got his can of RL26. Took some doing, but now it's time to load those Nosler LRAB 150's
I'll check back in after the range.
Bonus! We'll be awaiting your report.
Rem41,
Any chance you've done some tests with RL26 by now?
Thanks, Nate
Loading now, starting at 59.0 grains it's a slightly compressed load. That LRAB is a long bullet.
Going 59.0 then 60.0 then 60.8 that's the Alliant book maximum w/ the 150 grain Partition
Will shoot some this friday.
41
Going to start with the Federal 210m. If the load needs tweeking will drop charge weights & work up using the magnum 215.
Way too stormy to shoot today, no way to shoot tight groups w/ sideways rain & wind tearing my targets off the backers.
Seattle is back!!
Rem41,
Any chance you've done some tests with RL26 by now?
Thanks, Nate
Nate I did, waited it out & got a perfect day to shoot, overcast 55' zero wind.
Reloder 26 is for real!
59.5 grains 3037fps
60.0 grains 3093fps
New Nosler brass
Federal 210m
Nosler 150 grain LRAB
My starting load gave me a nice tight 3 shot group & a velocity that Alliant said was @ the book maximum in their rifle.
My 25" Benchmark 5r tube is apparently a fast one, I can get by using 1.3 grains less.
Kicks like a mule, no excessive pressure signs even w/ the 60.8 grain load. Didn't get a chance to chrono that one, I'd estimate 3150fps(?)
41
Wow! So I still can see one problem with RL26...I've yet to see it on the shelf around here. I've been toying with getting some RL 26 or IMR7977 to play with the heavies in the 270. I see 7977 often.
I was able to cross 2900 with a 150 over 4000MR when playing with that powder. I also found RL17 will get them close to 2900. All of these are out of a 23.5" barrel.
41Rem -
That's impressive. It's been a long time since I even 'considered' another powder for my 270s. 7828 has served me well since it first became available to me.
I'll be looking for some 26 and hopefully test it come Spring.
Thank You for this thread and your testing.
Another reason to spend more $$$. <smirk>
Jerry
Powder Valley has 8# kegs ($140) of RL 26 in stock. 8# could be a misprint on their site as RL 23 and 25 are 5# kegs.
150 gr Partitions coast just past 3000 fps in my 24" Vanguard using MagPro.
Ted
Here's a thread showing the results I got from 7828ssc in my son's .270. Velocities were the highest I've ever seen from a .270 but the pressures were there too...
https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...R7828ssc_in_.270_Win_-_Holy_#Post9033233John
Thanks or the link, interesting stuff.
As we're talking about high pressure loads...
Now 10 days after the fact & with a bruise still visible on my shooting shoulder, I'm thinking Alliant's maximum load of 60.8 grains of Reloder 26 with the Nosler 150 Partition might be a bit much, for me personally anyway.
Well, in all truthfulness I substituted the LRAB 150, but that bullet has a shorter bearing surface so it follows the pressure should be less all other things being equal.
That load gave no signs of over-pressure in my rifle, and did shoot 1 MOA. I hate to give up that speed as it flattens out my trajectory...
So after talking out of both sides of my mouth, guess I'll retest over the chrono for an actual FPS / SD and of course accuracy again.
If it checks out safely, guess I'll have to look into a Limbsaver recoil pad or a Benchmark muzzle break!
41😕
I've not measured the bearing surface area if the 150 LRAB yet, but I'd bet it will be less that the Partition, thus a little less pressure with a given load.
Just food for thought.............
MM
I got 2,877 with 58.0 H4831 SC in a 22" M70
I used Nosler's max load of magpro out of my 270 Win. with a 24" barrel shooting the 150g ABLR. The velocity averaged 2860 FPS and was very accurate. This was ~ 50 fps slower than Nosler indicated with their rifle.
My load with the highest velocity in 270 Winchester, in
a Vanguard S2 is with RL26 I used 61gr. with 140gr. Accubonds
Winchester cases and WLR primers. The average for 5 shots was
3124fps. Also group was under a inch. 59.6gr of Norma MRP
Gave 3081fps. with same bullet. 58.2gr of MRP gave 3006fps
with 150gr Nosler Ballistic Tips. I,ll Try the RL26 with
the 150gr Nosler Partitions next. They shoot very accurately
in my Vanguard.
Pretty dang impressive velocities. I'd be interested to hear how your brass holds up with 140's going as fast as 130's.
Please post your results with the RE 26 and 150 Partitions. Happen to have a couple hundred 150 NPT sitting on the bench to concoct for my 270.
RL26 59.8gr. 150gr. Nosler Partition Win cases WLR
primers 2972fps. temp 65 degrees.
that is pretty crazy performance.
I've been relatively happy with ~2770 fps out of my dads 270 using 150 PT's. H4831- 57.0 gr.
this load (mine) pretty well duplicates the factory ammo (Federal) performance.
yall are waaaay faster than that. glad to hear accuracy hasn't suffered in the process.
I don,t know what happened Saturday. RL26 was all over the
target. May have been me, or a dirty bore. I,d shot about
100 rounds thru it without cleaning. So far RL26 has highest
velocities for 150gr bullets in 270 Winchester. But
Norma MRP has been the most accurate so far.
Anybody working with 7977?
7977 is definitely on my list, but haven't bought or played with it yet. I have some 4451 to try and it's reported to be quite good with the 130s in the 270, but again, I haven't been able to play with it yet. And now there's 4955...this is getting tiring!
what about superperformance?? sounds like re 26 is it though.
Hodgdon doesn't list superformance with any loads for the 270? Are you seeing them elsewhere?
Anybody working with 7977?
I bought some last week and will stuff it under 150 Partitions when deer season is over in a few weeks.
I used superformance with 140gr Accubonds, Very accurate
and gave 3070fps. Had pressure problems with 150gr bullets,
don,t use any more. Used Winchester cases and WLR primers.
With federal cases you have to reduce loads 1 full grain.
Postscript: Beretz texted me Alliant loading data today for the 270 and 150 gr bullet.
Lo and behold......RL26 showed 3034 fps from a 24" barrel with 60.4 gr and 150 gr bullet.WW brass and Fed 210 primer.
It was higher than RL23 and RL17.
Time to put a tin lid on this thead.
The muzzle break is installed on my 270 & finally got around to chronoing the RL 26 maximum load. I got an average of 3191 fps for 4 shots an SD of 4 and the 3 shot group measures out to .519". Load is 60.8 grains using the Federal 210 m and 150 LRAB.
Still kicks...
41
Great discussion and great results. How time flies!
RL26 will give highest velocity, Then Norma MRP, with150 gr bullets, with140gr bullets I us RL23. Have heard N560 is very good but can not purchase any here.
I have Winchester, Hornady and Nosler(brass) and use a 59 grain charge of H4831sc with 140 Accubonds in 2 different rifles.
The Nosler stamped brass weighs a fair amount less than the Winchester.
Give or take velocities.
22" = 2950-80fps.
24" = 3020-3060fps.
50-70F.
According my Chrony the 22" barrel velocity will be roughly 100 fps less when it's below zero(from 70F).
(if I remember correctly)
My exact load and it's accurate.
Postscript: Beretz texted me Alliant loading data today for the 270 and 150 gr bullet.
Lo and behold......RL26 showed 3034 fps from a 24" barrel with 60.4 gr and 150 gr bullet.WW brass and Fed 210 primer.
It was higher than RL23 and RL17.
Time to put a tin lid on this thead.
The muzzle break is installed on my 270 & finally got around to chronoing the RL 26 maximum load. I got an average of 3191 fps for 4 shots an SD of 4 and the 3 shot group measures out to .519". Load is 60.8 grains using the Federal 210 m and 150 LRAB.
Still kicks...
41
That would be 150fps faster than Alliant's max velocity with RL26 and 150gr NPt's. Your chrono is the best indicator of pressure............
In my Rem 700CDL .270 Win with 24"bbl.
All are an average of 5 shots through my Competition Electronics Pro-Chrono Plus.
140gn Nosler Accubond
CCI 250M
3.320'
60gns RL 26.........3102 fps
58gns RL 22.........2871 fps
61gns H1000........2844 fps
140gn Hornady BTSP Interlock
CCI250M
59.5gns RL22.......3009fps
59gns W780......3018fps
54gns H4350.....2983fps
58.5gns H4831sc..2970fps
57.5gns RL19.......2971fps
53gns W760......2947fps
53.5gns RL17.......2907fps
![[Linked Image from i.imgur.com]](https://i.imgur.com/cFnbKbm.jpg)
Dang! That be some nice looking wood.......
Heck yah it is. Standard off the shelf CDL?