Anybody running these?

I have a box of the Classic Hunters and want to see what I can get out of them. Would 2700fps be out of line with a 22" barrel ?

-Thanks

Pretty easy to get that, with a number of powders.

I use Ramshot Hunter, which easily gets 2800+ in a 24" barrel with superb accuracy, using published data, but Hunter's unobtanium these days. Anything from the 4350's and RL-17 to H4831 and RL-22 will work too.

I suspected as much, but it leads me to some more questions.

I have the new Berger manual. The max load for 185 using H4350 (which I have) is 53.4gr and list a velocity of ~ 2665 with a 26" barrel. Subtracting about 25fps per inch that puts me at about 2550. Note that the Berger manual does not list the "Classic Hunter" in the bullet list.

53.5 gave me a 5 shot average of 2596. A little faster than expected.

A inter-webs search showed that Walt replied to someone that 54.5 was max for the '06 and the 185.

54.5 gave me 2650 average. Accuracy is…acceptable. But could possibly be fine tuned by changing my seating depth. I am on the lands now. Also, I had no signs of pressure to my layman eye. 50 fps faster would probably make no noticeable difference.

So, again I am perplexed by published load data. I know rifles are different, bullets are different, conditions are different. Didn't I read something recently about load data written by you? Maybe it was in the Berger manual….

As a side note I broke out some .308 loads that I had loaded about 30 degrees cooler ago. They ran 100 fps faster and did not group worth a squat. Not at all like when they were cooler….

Thanks.

When I ran the 185 Bergers (.070" OTL) in my 06, I used Winchester brass, CCI-200 primer, 57.0 grs H4350, 24" barrel with avg speed of 2810fps. The load shot very well ( half moa to 850 yards ). However, it was a warm load but no pressure signs in my rifle

Powder choice?

AA4064 was the powder in the .308 loads.

Back in May i was at ~2580 and this trip with the temp at 94 degrees, I had one that went 2700fps with the majority around 2680. Noticed they didn't group right off. The heat was the only thing I could attribute it to. I had always read about temp sensitivity, but this is the first time I have actually seen it.

57gr (h4350) is the load I use for my 180 Sierras in the '06. I'll work toward 2700 with the Bergers, it shouldn't take much more. Then I will play with the seating depth. I'm shooting the Tikka, so full mag length is where I'm at now.

I shoot the 185 VLD in 30-06. My preferred load is .045" off lands. I use R-19, but R-22 shoots faster with less pressure, and near same accuracy, averaging about 1 3/4" at 300yds. The speed with R-19 averages 2730 with 57.5gr, and R-22 2780.I don't recall the R-22 charge wt off the top of my head. All use Fed215 in Win brass. I've been wanting to try more temp insensitive powders, and have my mind set on R-23 if I can ever find some. I tried H4350 and Hunter, and had a hard time getting to 2700 out of a 24" bbl before I started seeing pressure. The R-19 load is a bit on the warm side, and I believe it is over max according to Berger's data, but it was the most consistent I tried, and broke 2700, which was my goal as well. I tend to have a "slow" barrel.

You may or may not have better luck with deeper seating; one of the points of the Classic Hunter design is a tangent ogive, which tends to be more easy to shoot well off the lands than the VLD, which have a secant ogive. These aren't hard and fast rules though, and throat geometry comes into play, from what I've read.

Good luck! The 185 VLD is my preferred hunting load for deer and elk, as shots can tend to get somewhat long where I hunt, and I have a lot of confidence in the Bergers to hit where I expect at long range, and with plenty of energy when they get there.

Ever try RL-17 HuntnShoot? I get 2900+ with 180 Sciroccos and Accubond in my brothers 24" 30-06. I am thinking 2800+ should be pretty doable with 185s....

Worth giving it a whirl I suppose.

Run the 30-06 to 65,000 psi, then you will reach the second accuracy node. It runs at 60,000 in the manuals for all the old surplus rifles. In a modern rifle there is no problem going to 65,000 psi, just like all of the '06 based cartridges.

Don't mean to hijack but if anybody needs any 185 Bergers (hunting version) I have about 40 I would be willing to trade or sell. Just PM me if interested.

Now, back to the discussion.

Elk Country

Alaska lanche, no, I haven't. I'd considered it, but I've tried to move away from the more temp sensitive powders for stuff I hunt with. Inevitably every season I find myself on a mountain in pre-dawn and it is 15-20 below zero. I don't shoot in -20 outside of hunting, and I kind of need to know that my 500yd impact hasn't shifted significantly due to velocity loss. I've read that R-17 does produce some screaming speed though. It's been a slow process to try new powders due to sketchy availability since 2008. JB opined that I should give Ramshot Magnum a whirl nearly 2 years ago. I haven't found any in that time. Magnum and several others.

Settled on 54.5gr of H4350.

10 shot string averaged 2649.9fps with a SD of 12.

Seated the bullet .009 deeper and the groups (5 shot) shrank to .838" at 100 yards.

The .009 number comes from my Forster dies. It is awful nice that they give the stem 1/8 turn, 1/4 turn and full turn measurements with the dies.

That'll do donkey. That'll do.

Yep. Consistency beats raw speed every time. I got more accuracy the deeper I went. That was how I ended up at .045" off lands. It started to go the other way as I went deeper. My preferred load has never grouped over .7" at 100 for 3.