What's typical here in a bolt gun? Looks like manuals are all over the place with load data and RL15.

I bought a used 700 5R sometime last year and had it cut back to 22". Decided to give the hideous Magpul stock and DBM a try, and low and behold, the dang thing fits me. Plus, I can quickly adjust the LOP for lending it to different shooters. The rifle is not very picky. I shot my old varget/168NBT load a bit last fall but decided to work up something with the Scenars. I'm shooting moly in this gun also.

It was windy this weekend, so I decided to run a few across the chrono. Didn't shoot for groups but found the following with RL15, new Lapua brass, CCI200s, and 155gr moly Scenars at 2.85" DBM-length.

45.5gr 2700fps
46gr 2725fps
46.5gr 2760fps
47gr 2800fps

One round of each went into a cluster about the size of a golf ball on my 200 steel plate. No pressure signs at all, but compression is getting up there. May try 47.3gr and 47.5gr. Figuring about 2,850-2,875fps is likely about all there is to get out of this combo if accuracy is there?

I got just over 3,000 fps in a 22" bbl with Hodgdon's max load of CFE-223 (51.5 gr) and the 155 Scenar (if you're looking for more speed).

I'm loading them on top of 47.0gr's of VarGay. I believe they were running around 2,900fps out of my CTR.

A ten and two five shot groups from yesterday. 110yds.

The pic is upside down but the top group I shot five. Dialed -.5, shot five, dialed -.5, shot five, then back +one mil and shot five more.





Travis

46.6 Varget 2980 fps 51.7 PP MR2000 3020 fps. 22" Kimber MT Lapua brass and a bit more with Nosler (Norma) Wolf LRM, 2.81". Both shoot great

Same loads with Barnes 150 TTSX shoot well and to the same POI (at 200)

Thanks for the input guys. Sounds like I might have some more room to bump up speeds a bit. If I can get north of 2,850fps and it shoots well, I'll be plenty happy. Not a shabby place to be for the boring old .308win.

Don't quote me on this but I want to say I stopped at around 47.0gr's of RL 15 too.

I just ended up using VarGay because I had so much of it and wanted to burn it up.



Travis

FYI I have loaded near 150,000rounds of 223 and a lesser amount 308. You can sub similar weight bullets with VV-140, Varget, and Re-15 Grain for grain... I mean to the .1grain.

Try VV-140 and report back. It has always been a clear winner in ES/SD ...not to mention fouling

I would give MR-2000 a try also...51 gr to start.

I only use VV when it's free but that's good to know.

MR2000 is tempting. Seems like it gives good speeds.




Travis

.

Taking notes.

I run a rather sedate load of 45gn Varget in my Savage (26") and it results in a 2890 avg. It's really accurate though!

I'm sorry this should read 2880 with the Varget load and 2920 with the MR2000 load.
Sorry and a good reason to double check load data.

2850 fps should be a reasonable load, but you might need a grain or more powder to get there with moly. Finding the accuracy node for your barrel is more important.

I'm not a fan of RL15 for the same reason the military discontinued it. It's easy to find an accurate load with 4895 or 4064. Varget is too, but then Varget is hard to find.

I'd try a can of IMR 4166 if I were to ever run out of 4895...but that isn't very likely.

Boogaloo What was the reason the military stopped Re-15?

It was used in M118LR ammo until they found it was causing excessive pressure and was too temp sensitive to achieve the consistency in accuracy they needed at long range over the large temperature swings one encounters in a desert environment. They figured this out in 2008, I hadn't used any RL powders for decades prior to that, but most folks don't do load testing in such a hot climate. I recently saw an ad that RL-16 is out.

CFE223 (MR2000 is the same) is a good powder for the 150ish grain bullets. My RA .308 likes 1/2-grain under max and gets 2934 fps with 150 Hornady Interlocks. Shoots great, too.

FWIW, my sniper guys tell me that IMR 8208xbr is the most temp insensitive powder they've ever used.

It's giving a little bit over 2600 fps and small groups with 168's in my 20" barreled 308's with a half grain under listed max.

8208XBR

That's really interesting because ADI would have you think otherwise.

Link?

http://www.adi-powders.com.au/handl...nch+Mark+8208&hdnFormName=frmPowders

If that's the same stuff then here's a quote:



Looks like a claim of temperature insensitivity.

Yes that's what I was on about. It's the same powder.

Snipers reload their own ammo?





Travis

The ones on telly do.

What's your reason for not liking RL15?



Travis

What the f--k is telly?




Dave

Just the temp stability issue.

RL 15 works just fine. There's not much of a temp stability issue from what I've seen.... Just sayin..

Thanks I have a few 100 rounds of LC/M118 LR ammo..LC 01 it's very accurate... Shot at least 1000 rounds of LC 168 "95 " as I remember also. This in a bolt gun..It was very good stuff and I believe loaded with 15.

JPro,

My previous .308 liked 45gr of R15 behind the 155r Scenar in either LCNM or Lapua brass. That load clocked about 2885 but my barrel had a Palma chamber which only had .050" freebore.

John

The Idiot Box.

Our computers?




Dave

Maybe you misread the label. Because I haven't seen any temp instability issues with RL 15.



Travis

As an aside, the same day I was chronographing those loads in my .308, I shot a few factory loads through a friend's new left-hand 700LTR .308. The 165gr Federal Sierras and Fusions clocked an expected 2,575-2,600fps, but the Nosler 165NBT factory loads ran 2,800fps. I'm not sure what powder Nosler is loading there, but 2,800 with that bullet in a long-throated factory 20" 700 is cooking pretty dang good. No pressure signs either.....

When I first got the Palma chambered .308 barrel for my Stiller Predator, I ran a box of 180gr Federal "Deer Thugs" through it. Averaged a hair over 2700 fps. I was impressed too...

John

Chamber, throat, and bore dimensions do matter, don't they? Partly why I'm having to jack up the charges on these 155/RL15 loads. Loose factory chamber/bore, long throat, and moly, they add up. Was pleased to see that these Scenars might not mind a little jump, just from the few that I sent downrange. The Magpul magazine only allows a 2.85" COAL, but supposedly Accurate Mags will allow another tenth of an inch, provided the receiver is notched a bit under the ramp. Rifle feeds much more smoothly from the DBM than the factory BDL box. I may move my Rem Varm contour 6.5x47L to the same setup, as it's a bit balky sometimes from the factory box. Not really crazy about all the "polymer" components, but if they work.....

Dude -

The "tellyvision" in the accent of our far southern friends.

TV

Fugk books.

I just look at the Chrony.



Travis

Me too.

My 270 Win takes 5 grains over "book max" loads to reach the speed listed with some powders.

Slow barrel my arse.

Maybe...

If one is not concerned about how velocity and pressure varies with temperature, and is not specifically looking for it, then one may not actually see it because it is not necessarily noticeable or at all critical for short range work.

But you're right...I should have just read the label more carefully and not wasted all that time and energy I spent in load testing.

Next time I'll know better...thanks.

Maybe you misread the label. Because I haven't seen any temp instability issues with RL 15.



Travis[/quote

UH No because there never was a problem with Re-15 ball ammo...but one was invented on the internet....fuuck me

Temps here are super consistent throughout the year. That's probably why I've never seen a shift in POI.

Also, I never shoot past 250yds.




Dave

Just like the wind. Right Clark..

46.8 versus 47 grains Varget:


Rifle is a well worn T3 Varmint in .308, cut back to 20"s. Optic is a USO fixed 10X.



wind was fairly light at 8ish MPH.






Roughly .5-.6 moa @ 300. This is about all I can do with a 10X, at distance.

Silly goat was watching. Perhaps taking notes.

I bet with the right target you could manage the same moa figures at 600 with that 10x.

Perhaps, though a lot depends on the shape and contrast of the target.

I like targets like this at distance. Easy to divide with a duplex center,even at lower magnification. Plus the hits on steel aren't lost in some big red or orange blob. I use a few different sizes and generally prefer red paint.

We don't get much of that either.





Clark

That bottom target literally hurts to look at.



Dave