So, a 6mm, 260 and 270 walk in to bar....well ok they walk in to a reloading bench. I must be completely nuts.

A while back I decided to try to fool proof things for safety sake by seeing if I could find loads for all three that IMR 4350 alone would satisfy. So far it has worked pretty good.

I had been using H4381 with 140 Gamekings which I am convinced are the greatest single bullet on the planet for a 260- but they weren't supposed to shoot in my 1-10 twist despite my lying eyes and first hand evidence to the contrary. BUT...the internet must be smarter than me so I switched in order to conform.

I also used H4831 for 150's in my 270 but felt I wouldn't lose anything going to 140's with IMR 4350- So I switched from the 150 Interlock to the 140 Gameking. No biggee

I was already using Imr 4350 for the 6mm shooting 85hpbt's beautifully and with terrific success in the field. THEN..... I was gifted bunches of heavier 6mm bullets from a fellow fire member \ friend \ even loonier (you know you are) and have been trying to get them to shoot as well.


NOW... out comes IMR with new powders and I cannot find a single person saying their stuff doesn't shoot better with 4451 than it does with 4350. Can I leave well enough alone? Hell noooooooo

So I have 4350 loads made for 120 Prohunters (260Rem), 100 and 105 grainer 6mm's, and 140 Gamekingsfor the 270. I also have a few of the last 140 Gamkeings for the 260 loaded with H43381 just to confuse things even further.

I am thinking if nothing else it may tighten up the heavier 6mm's. Who knows??? Cabela gouges the price but it beats hazmat shipping fees.

I am going to duplicate the 4350 loads using 4451 (yes after verifying I am not over max) and compare the findings.

Clear as mud. Anyone interested in this?

No cure for this madness. Wondering if I am alone?

Yep you're alone sorry you're OUT THERE DEWD !

I burned most of a pound of 4451 through a 6mm last year trying to develop a load with 95 NBTs. I was also considering it for the 270 and 30-06. I ran into some pressure problems sooner than I thought I should have and I didn't think it went through the powder measure very well. It's more expensive too.

I went back to H4831SC and Reloder 17. YMMV

Dale

Well that just figures! HA. Why do I know the dam will burst on all the folks who swear never to use 4451 again. Thanks for the insight Dale. I will let you know how it goes with me. Wife was with me at Cabelas and asked if your current powder works well why are you changing it? Blank stare was about all I could offer.


EFW how is the latest checkering semi custom rebarrel Ackley improved Mauser wildcat change of mind but I found a deal on 'X" going for ya?

You are no more mad than the rest of us (and probably more sane than a lot of guys here lol) it will be interesting to see what you come up with.

I like what IMR 4451 showed in a 30-06 I had, a 7mm Rem Mag with 154 gr Hornady's Spire Points and also my 260 Rem with 130 gr Sierra HPBT bullets. Like you I'm going to try it in my 270 Win with 140 gr Sierra's but in this case the HPBT version again. Expecting good things in the 270 and IMR 4451 will end up being a go too powder. So far other than some loads in my old 270 H 4831 sc has given good accuracy but poor velocities in a number of different rounds so I'm switching to IMR 4451 and H 4350 on the fast side and IMR 7977 on the slow side. Hearing great things about RL 23 and 26 so far as well........

Great minds.... LOL
I stumbled into a sale-priced 8# jug of 4451 at, yep Cabelas, and so far: a 30-06 180 Partition load that works in two rifles, a reasonable 270 140 gr Hornady Interlock load, and while I had to keep dumping powder in, got a potentially good thing going with a 19" 243 using 95 Ballistic Tips. None of it is fully sorted out yet but I like the stuff, just leaving the ChargerMaster loaded. 6.5 Creedmoor too?

ken - you're not nuts. I actually bought 4451, 4955, and 7977 to duplicate H4350, H4831, H1000.............

I found my Roberts likes 4955 and Ramshot Hunter with 115 NPT, I get more vel from 4955.

My 270 didn't care for 7977 with 150 NPT nearly as well as H4831 and H1000. (as an aside I bought a pound of Re 26 yesterday to try )

My 300 WSM likes it better than H4350 with 180 NPT but I lose ~ 60-70 ft/sec compared to my 4350 loads. I'm playing with it more to see if I can get back more velocity.

All told, I'm impressed with the new IMR series, mainly because we have more temp insensitive powders to choose from. I'm also curious how the new Reloder powders will fair in the temp sensitivity world. I used to shoot alot of Re 22 at least until I discovered how much velocity it lost in the cold. That stuff has been magic pixie dust for most of my 7 RM through the years.

Let us know how your results turn out.

kenjs1,

I switched to 4451 from H4350 not because 4451 might be "better," but due to not finding H4350 for a long time while 4451 was widely available. Have a suspicion H4350 might be hard to get again if we have another component shortage. It's certainly easier to ship 4451 from Canada to the U.S. than H4350 from Australia.

So far 4451 has worked as well as H4350 in all the cartridges I've tried it in.

Yeah it's that whole pot meet kettle thing huh Ken!?!?

I've made the same switch after burning thru 9 lbs of IMR 4350 in the last 3 yrs.

My 257 AI has responded well; my buddies' 06s also.

Still can't hold a candle to Hunter.

Not to be too pessimistic or anything but I don't think we'll avoid it again and soon. The supplies look pleasantly good at the present time, but things like 22 ammo are still very spotty...and expensive. (22 caliber bullets moulds have never been as popular I'm sure. )

Rather than be adult and scientific the kid in me, with this new toy, picked a single guess load for each bullet by approximating the same percentage of my trusted 4350 loads and loaded away. 4451 has a smaller min max range so it isn't precisely parallel. I only loaded one charge weight for each bullet weight - and yes, secretly hoping the hype would materialize in automatic wonder loads for each.

6mm - 85hpbt was super encouraging. Got a lucky tight little group to a little different poi. Great place to begin.

The 100 grainers I have don't shoot that well with 4350 and it was the same with 4451. The 105's shot a bit better (just like with 4350) and without trying to lawyer speak will say it showed "the possibility of promise". Long and short is the new powder didn't really 'fix' or magically change rifle behavior. Of course one load doesn't prove much of anything but does seem to reaffirms the rifle likes those 85 grainers best.


On to the 260- it is impossible for anything to improve the imr4350 load for 120 ProHunters. Coming close to matching is a tall order. The test load with 4451 shows decent promise though. Another good starting point for ladder testing. The load I used for 140 Gamekings might be ok for starting a hunting load but doubt it will meet my load with H4831 for that bullet.

The 270 with 140 Gamekings looks real good, was on and centered.


Wish we we going in to cooler months so I could properly test more enjoyably. Will be a while before I can say if 44511 can ever replace 4350 on my bench.

Oh! one off the wall thing. I was using a dipper and trickler and for some reason getting the desired load weights was extremely quick. Faster than with any other powder. I know that seems dumb since we aren't talking about a powder dump but there ya go. No explanation.

Ran various powders through the following:

308 - Varget, I4064 & 4451 with both 165 SGK and 180 SGK
Results: I4064 was the best in MY rifle with the 165's but the 4451 was golden with the 180's.
25-06 - H4831, I4831, I4350, RL 26, RL 19, H1000 & 7977.
110 gr AB's
Results: H4831 very accurate but I have a 25-06, not a 257 Roberts (velocity in the 2700fps range). I4831 no luck, same with I4350 and RL 26. RL 19 had good accuracy and a bit more velocity than H4831, but alas, once the temps got into the 70's the pressure was too much. H1000 didn't work so I tried the 7977 - 5 shot sub-.75" groups and velocity in one of the rifles @ 3050fps and in the other rifle 3175.

I haven't burned up my first pound of 4451 yet, but I have tried it in my iron sighted Rem 760, .257 Bob, and my custom .280.
It shot the best groups I've ever gotten with the 80 gr. Barnes TTSX or any other bullet for that matter in the 760.
In the .280, It works very well with Barnes's 145 gr. LRX, something Ramshot's Hunter couldn't even remotely do, and shot quite well, at the same powder charges as H4350, with the Barnes 120 gr. TTSX.
My impression is that it meters better than H4350, and alot better than IMR 4350. E

I don't have an opinion on the powder selection, but I believe the thinking is sound about finding a powder that will stay available & laying in a supply of it. The last component shortage put a hurt on me and almost forced the cancellation of a prairie dog hunt. The upcoming election with the likely election of Hillary means it's very likely to happen again with the possibility that it'll be worse than the last time. I've been buying up components as I've found them, I'm particularly proud of my recent bargain basement buy of 6000 55 gr ballistic tips from the shooters pro shop.

I'm afraid we're in for a shortage like we've never seen if (when) Hillary gets elected & proposes her first gun ban. I don't intend to get caught again.

Bear,

Where are you finding data to use 4451 with heavies in the 308win? I've wanted to try it, but I'd like data to try it with... Safer...

NTG, the thinking, at least on my part , was it may work better for mid-weight to heavier bullets given it has a slower burn rate than 4350. My go to for heavies is 4381. Look on a burn rate chart that has 4451 for comparisons.

The Dupont/Hodgdon website has reloading data for IMR 4451. E