I've run my current load of 56 grains of Reloader 19 from a 1 in 9 1/2 twist 22" barrel through two chronographs and get the same speed of 2720ish. Any ideas why this is so slow?

What is the bullet? What rifle/barrel length?

Is this something new? What does the rifle do with other powders and the same bullets?

When RL22 and 19 came out, I recall Bob Hagel did an article on them in which he stated that in SOME rifles with SOME loads, R19 actually behaved more like R22 as you approached maximum, i.e. . it took as much R19 to produce the same velocity as R22. R19 is of course supposed to be faster during the R22.

Cant say I have ever seen exactly that but I did have a pre 64 M70 FW that handled a couple grains more R19 than the listed maximum with 165 gr bullets just to hit 2900 fps. In fairness this could have been due to the normal differences in barrels, and nothing to do with the powder.

Sorry about that! It's an A-bolt I Medallion. The bullet is a 140 BT. Can't say if it's new or not, other than the first time I chronographed the load a few years back, it was at the same speed. The rifle is almost 30 years old. Lots of rounds through it. Before I go trying something different, I thought I'd see if anyone had any ideas. The load is extremely accurate and there are zero pressure signs.

I suppose you could carefully add powder and see what the chronograph says.,watching for pressure signs as you go.

The barrel may take heavier charges of RL19 than the manuals indicate. That is not unusual.

2720 from a 140 in the 280 is not a lot of velocity ; based on what I've seen from the cartridge, 3000-3080 from a 22" barrel is easily achievable. That includes a custom 280, a M70 Classic and a Ruger M77,all years ago and with Rl22.

If Rl19 does not work I'd look at RL22 next,or maybe the newer R23 which I have not tried yet.

In a 22" barrel, 140's should do 3000 fairly easily. My 150 gr load was 2950 using H4831 in my M77. If it were me, I'd work up to max loads of H4831 or H4350 and see what it does.

Another thought: how much throat/leade does the barrel have? Long throated guns will cause a pressure drop and result in decreased velocity.

Generally when I run into a pressure/velocity "wall" with a powder,and velocities are sub standard, I usually go to a double base powder of slower burning rate. I would try R22, R23, and even R26. I would go double base because they generally have more powder energy than single base and many times produce more velocity.


In this case I would start with R22 (if R19 bombs out) simply because I have BTDT with the cartridge after IMR4831,IMR4350,and RL19 failed to give the best combination of accuracy and velocity.

RL22 proved to be the sweet spot for my rifles in the 280. I know there are other today.

The only cartridge I can recall that did better going the other way was the 30/06....

RL22 bombed out velocity wise; RL19 was better but charges were almost as heavy as RL22.

Next step was back to H4350, which hit the sweet spot in velocity and accuracy and I have not changed from it yet with 165's,which is all I shoot in a 30/06.

Really appreciate the ideas! I'll run it up a half grain at a time and watch pressure. I have a TON of 22 and a couple pounds of 23 - May see what happens there if I don't get anywhere with 19. I use 4350 in my 7-08 - Pretty sure I used it with my first loads in this .280, prior to having a chrono. Might not hurt to go back and try it also.

Getting an honest 3000 FPS in a 22" barrel with a 140 is about as hard as I am willing to lean on a standard throated 280 & about 2900'ish with a 150.

Some claim more & maybe they are braver than me.

As for powder, I've generally done best with RL-19 with the 140's & RL-22 with the 150's...........either are pretty close & can go either way w/o much issue on the 140's.

Win. 780 is also a decent choice as is 7828, but almost w/o fail the RL-19/22 gives higher velocity.

Here's a target with 140NBT's using 59 gr. of RL-19 in a 22" barrel that is right at the 3000 FPS number. No real pressure signs with easy bolt lift & could have probably used another half a grain.

MM

MM - yeah you're right. Easily was a bit of an overstatement. My records also indicate my 150s were closer to 2900 than 2950.

How well does Ramshot Hunter perk in the .280?

The truth is telling each other what is "max" in our rifles is interesting but means almost nothing as we move from rifle to rifle and the differences always boil down to that last 75-90 fps difference . One guy gets it from one rifle and other guy does not.

This is pretty insignificant as a percentage of total velocity delivered by a cartridge. But it happens due to differences in barrels and components.

JOC once wrote that he could never get the velocity from a 280/140 that he could from a 270/130 and that makes sense since the 270 bullet is lighter;and a 270 will deliver only slightly less with a 140 than a 280.

Any 280 I have ever owned di about exactly with a 140 what a 7 Rem Mag did with a 160.....something over 3000 fps. Call it good at 3050.

Through multiple guns in both calibers, that has absolutely been my experience in every single case.

But as I said earlier, some might be braver souls than me when it comes to leaning on the 280 in search of more velocity.

MM

Well I just picked up the KS 280 so need to start loading...

Have H4350 and H1000, and Ramshot Hunter, Big Game and Magnum.

Bullets:
120, 140 TSX
140 partition
150 NBT
160 partition.

Might take it elk hunting next year if my 6.5 4S doesn't get picked first...

56g is one less than book in the Nosler manual.

That said, if you grabbed said manual and then lagged as badly with other powders at Nosler book loads, it would indicate your rifle...or maybe it is that particular batch of RL19. Sometimes chronographs get screwy.

As we all know the 280 SAAMI spec pressure are relatively mild. All other things equal, a 3000fps 140g load in the the 280 is a milder pressure load than a 3000fps 130g load in a 270...

Really? Wondering how you know that....

I believe Ken Waters pointed that out

LOL! I was going to say..."you got that from Ken Waters".


I KNEW it wasn't because you had loads pressure tested.

It's BS. I could hardly take it as gospel then and never did. JOC had a field day with Waters on that one.

Case size and powder capacity are practically identical; the 270 bullet is 10 gr lighter. Powder charges are practically identical.

Tell me how you move a heavier bullet from the same case at the same speed as a lighter one with less pressure?

This kind of 280 horseshidt is the reason I could never take the 280 fans seriously. They believe in the Easter Bunny and magical stuff. Barnum and Bailey.....always good for a laugh.

Larger base diameter.

Gimme a break.....


.007"

I could negate the differences with greater bearing surface of a 140 7mm bullet; not to mention that inconvenient 10 gr of bullet weight.

Now I understand how you guys dreamt up the 280 AI .....what excruciating nonsense.

I thought I had the same anomaly, but Looking back on my semi-organized load notes I have 57/Rl9-140 btip at 2904 avg for the 280 with 'good groups'. Which is kinda my standard for most shots touching each other.

No two barrels are the same is my explanation. Rifles are individuals much like the persons fire'n them....

My chrono has been the best reloading aide, not so much for the velocity but stuff like more accurate trajectory and consistent velocities.