But a ways to go.

Have had a thread or two with you guys helping on this. Fairly to rifel reloading and I appreciate the help.

I finally got my reloads the range. All were IMR-4350 under Sierra 165 BT Game Kings. Had loads at 55.5, 56.0, 56.5, and 57.0 gr. At 50 yards the best 3-shot group was 1/2" with the 57.0 grains. Better than the factory Rem's I was shooting, but still not what I had hoped: 1/4" at 50 yards (or about 1/2" group at 100 yards).

I don't want use less powder since velocity will start dropping off pretty quick below 55 grs. So, how do you figure out the next load to try to improve on that grouping? What has the best chance of producing a better group: Change powder, change bullets, change primers, change OAL, etc? Its is a crap shoot or is there a method to this madness?

I don't think 3 shot groups at 50 are telling you anything at all. Move to at least 100 & shoot at least 5 (7-10 is better.)

Yeah, I would try 100 yards and see what happens. Your 57 grain load just might do under an inch at 100 yards, and that may be as good as you'll ever get with that particular rifle. I guess what I would try is 57 grains, and 3 or 4 different overall lengths.

An average of three 5-shot groups is a good balance between number of shots and precision of the estimate of group size. That will get you an estimate of long-term group size within about plus or minus 25%.

56.0gr. IMR 4350 under a Sierra 165gr. gives me groups at 100yds. that run just a little over 1" for five shots with my pre'64 M/70 FW.

I'd work up a little higher as long as your not seeing pressure signs.I'm shooting as high as 59.0grs of IMR-4350 in my long throated and settled in at 58.0grs in my shorter throated 30-06s.Another overlooked powder is Accurate 4350.About 59.0 -59.5grs of Ramshot Hunter is very good too.With 58.0grs of Accurate 4350,I'm getting a little over 3000fps with a 168gr Nosler Ballistic Tip with my 28" Pac-Nor barrel.

Like a lot of shooters I've owned several 30-06s. 30 years ago I got good accuracy and velocity, around 3,000 fps, with 60 gr of Win 760 and 150 gr Ballistic Tips. Another accurate load was 54 to 56 gr of IMR 4350 and 180 gr Hornady Interlocks.

As I've gotten older I now use between 46 to 50 grs of faster powders; IMR 4064, 4895, and 125 & 150 gr bullits. There's noticeably less recoil and accuracy's still very good with velocity around 2700/2800 fps. Probably the best overall load right now in my Model 70 is 50 gr of 4064 and 150 gr Sierra ProHunters at 2800 fps. I get routine 5 shot MOA accuracy at 100 yards with it more often than not.

YMMV

I shot at 50 yd so as to ensure I had the crosshairs dead on center of the bull. Not as easy to do at 100 yds for me. Was thinking shooting at 50 would actually be a better indiator of accuracy rifle/ammo combo. But I suppose you're right. The other replies are along the same lines.

Well, it is just a Rem 700 with sporter barrel, and moutned in a B&C Medalist stock. Maybe 1" at a 100 yds is the best it'll do. I had higher hopes.

I could load up some different length at 57 gr and also 57.5 and 58.0 gr., all the while watching for pressure signs. Suppect I'd need to make the OAL a tad longer to avoid the compression as that case is pretty full at 57 gr with the 165 GKs.

Thanks for the input.

I travel next week (work is ruinging my life!) so it may a week or better before I get back to the range.

Will let ya'll know how it works out.

Find or make another target that fits ones optics at whatever distance. Many are capable of MOA accuracy with irons if the target and sights mesh well.

Yep. Aim small, miss small.

Have you taken a look at concentricity (bullet wobble) in the loaded rounds? If you roll the loaded cartridges across a mirror on the table, you can sometimes see the bullet tips wobble as the cartridge rolls. The ones that don't wobble will shoot straighter.

I'm fairly new at this, too. This tip got me moving in the right direction, and it was cheap, too!

Well, I should say it started out as a cheap tip. I ended up buying a RCBS concentricity gauge… So that cost a few bucks… However, I was able to find out why Remington 165 grain PSP ammo had shot so well for me out of a few different 30-06 rifles: there was almost no bullet run out at all, across several boxes.

Good Luck,

FC

Two good suggestions have been put forward, the 100-yard target distance and concentricity.

I shoot at least 100 yards to check accuracy, and double-check at 315. You'd be surprised at how big a small windage error at 100 yards is at 315, the furthest I can shoot from sandbags and a bench.

When I first started measuring and correcting concentricity, the "unexplainable" flyers disappeared.

I check concentricity with my new Hornady Concentricity Tool.

I am shooting 165 Boat Tails, so as compared to a non-boat tail bullet there is already some loss of contact between the bullet and case neck.

Two suggestions have been made. One to add a tad more powder (may another 1/2 to 1 grain) and/or make the OAL longer. See how that affects accurancy. I'm OK with trying both suggestions. But, just how far out can I leave the 165 gr BT bullet before it begins to be problematic? In other words, what is the max OAL for the 165 gr boat tail?

Hope that makes sense.

Shoot at 100 yards. 50 won't tell you much unless it's rally bad. If you're at/under an inch with the 57 grain load at 100, then it's time to start adjusting seating depth. If you get under an inch it then becomes time to consider whether that's good enough. If you like to shoot and fiddle with things then there are other things to consider like concentricity, very small differences in charge weight, different powers, different bullets, different primers, different cases, parallax issues, how precise can you really hold, how precise can you actually place the cross hairs, and bedding issues. Going from an inch at 100 to less is much harder and more time consuming and vastly more prone to backsliding than people ever imagine.

If you are shooting a run of the mill hunting rifle and it comes under an inch at 100, then it'll hunt and do what needs doing. Unless you have to shoot past 300 yards or for some reason just have to have extreme precision that's good enough with some insurance room.

I have one and really like it.

That depends on your rifle's chamber and ability to cycle/feed a cartridge. Read this thread about kissing the lands. Kissing Lands

You will see a few different methods for measuring max OAL. Use whichever one you like. You can buy tools for it, make your own, or just partially seat a bullet in an empty cartridge, chamber it and look at the marks. Read that thread and get more details how to do it.

Once you determine that max length, you decide how far off the lands you want to run. And then you can adjust seating depth relative to that max OAL. Always make some dummy cartridges up with the max OAL and test that your rifle will cycle and feed it reliably first. Reduce max OAL if it doesn't (i.e., cycling/feeding may determine your max OAL or minimum distance off the lands). And that is bullet specific due to varying nose profiles (RN vs a BTSP, for instance). I personally don't load touching the lands, because that increases peak pressure. But it's the reference point to work from assuming cycling/feeding doesn't impose the limit. With a little gap to work with, the bullet gets a running start to engrave the lands which results in lower peak pressure than those that start already touching the lands. So it's not a good idea to work up a max load, then decide after that to kiss the lands with a max charge. The amount to start off the lands is arbitrary. Some start at .015 off, .02 or others .05.

So if you've found a charge that seems most accurate, load up some seated at your chosen starting gap of say .02, then load some more at increments further off the lands (seated deeper, for instance, .07, then 0.12 deeper; i.e., increments of .05 in this example) and see how each set groups. But I'd advise dropping the charge some and working back up to be conservative with the new max OAL. Also, you may choose larger increments to reduce the amount of load work as well. Some rifles might like a gap of .250 or more. Then zero in on a sweet spot if there is one.

Find your rifle lands. I have read some reloaders doing that before they even work up powder charges.

As said, you may need to get to 100 to see what it is realy doing. At that range it may not really be opening up as calculated as you think.

Also different bullets. I am working on two 30-06s 700, and 760. One likes hornady interlocks, one likes Nosler Partition. I can't figure out why, they both pretty much the same. Probably some outside factor. Such as the hornady are .01 longer in factory manual.

I know took the best of each, and loaded longer.

I also loaded up a 3rd powder. So for IMR4350 is my best. I wouldn't mind something pours better. I also want back up loads recorded in case I can't get a poweder.


1/2 at 100 yards is my goal. I am a little under a 1" with these rifles.


Are you doing it with other rifles?

Are you allowing enough cooling between shots?

Agreed, moved it out to 100 and try between 56, 56.5, 57, 57.5 since at 50 yards 57.0 was your best group. If you are still maintaining sub inch groups, then you need to ask yourself what will you use this for? Competition? Hunting? If all of the groups are pretty close, push out to a farther shot. The distance will enhance the smaller differences between the loads (and your skill). You can play with the charge in between the two close loads to find the tightest but in reality, you have to ask is a 1/8 of an inch group size really going to matter at 100, 200, 300 yards? Again your skill set comes into play. You can knock a 1/2" group at 200 (yes you can) and when that 4x4 walks out in the clear at 150 you totally miss the shot (yes you can).

I've worked up to the best load I could with a 270 I own and I still couldn't get below an inch @ 100. I was using the load information from Hornady since I was shooting their Interlocks. I then compared the COAL to that in the Nosler manual and made the adjustment. My groups at 200 now are just under an inch. Start to look at your overall length after you've found your absolute best load and you still seek a smaller group.

Remember components and loading. From lot to lot brass, bullets, powder, and primers may not match. If you are competition shooting you'll want to weight your brass and bullets and sort them into groups. I weight each charge twice with two different scales (yes I do). With powder. buy a couple of pounds of the powder you found a load for; load a small batch take it to the range and test it. You may have to adjust the charge based on that lot of powder. Once you get it tuned in, load up the rest exactly the same. A barrel used for "hunter" accuracy will last longer than one for competition shooting.

Finally, whether competition shooting or prepping for a hunt, shoot as much as you can, your brain has memory muscle and my best sets have always come after several session with the 22lr. (cheaper ammo same skill set required). Practice with your real rifle and ammo under the conditions (distance and weather) you expect to be successful at either hunting or competition.

HaYen

Zerk,
Just the one 30-06.

3 shots followed by 10 minutes of cooldown until the next group. Is that long enough?

Just a hunting rifle. But am planning an elk hunt and want a solid 400 yard shooter. ;

Shooting at 50 yards was/is an effort to eliminate my poor skills and focus on just the load. Once I have my best at 50 yds, I'll be shooting it at 200 yards to verify the load AND my lack of skilss.

Gun_Geezer,you talk of poor shooting skills,just how are you setting up?At the range,it's very important to be able to be rock solid so you know just how well your gun is shooting.I use a front rest and a rear bag.I think the rear bag will really improve how well you shoot,if you don't have one,get one.When your hunting,you don't have all those tools,but if your rifle shoots well,your chances of hitting what your aiming at improves.You know it's you and not the gun.Another thing that can cause poor shooting is a hard trigger.All mine break around 2 1/2 - 2 3/4lbs.A lot of factory rifles break around 5 - 8lbs,that's just way too hard for me to get tight groups at that weight.Here is a picture of my rest and rear bag setup.