I've been looking at the Neco, Sinclair, 21st Century, H&H, Accuracy One, etc....

Do your recommended any one of these over the others?

Following.

I sold an RCBS to buy a Sinclair recently. Was a good move.

The 21st Century one looks like it would be even better, but not all that necessary.

I use the Sinclair and like it.

John

sinclair

I'm thinking I will go with a Sinclair heard great things about them

Does anyone use the 21st Century?

+1

I should have bought one long ago. I've been surprised sometimes at some cheap dies making straight ammo. I've also found some bullet seater-stem and bullet profile incompatibilities that produced wonky ammo. Who knows how many times I discounted a load in the past because I got fliers, when it was actually runout that was the problem?

I haven't since I've had a Sinclair for a while. But it does look like a nice piece of equipment, and I do have a 21st Century neck turning tool which is first class so I'd feel confident buying other gear from 21st.

The one I generally recommend for a first-timer is the RCBS Casemaster, since it also measures neck thickness, a critical component in several aspects of accuracy, including sizing cases straightly.

Also have a Sinclair and a NECO. The Sinclair is smoother than the RCBS, but doesn't measure any more accurately. The NECO measures neck (and case-body) thickness as well, but is slower to use. Which is why my Casemaster still gets more use than the others.

I seldom use it, but I've had a Sinclair for several years. Easy to use and I assume the readings are accurate.

I haven't used the Sinclair so can't comment on it, but I can't see a think wrong with my RCBS

I have a Sinclair and like it fine. Haven't used any others.

My Sinclair gauge is the least used tool on my bench. If my rifles are shooting well, I don't gauge the cartridges. I used to do this regularly and very seldom found anything with a runout of more than .003. That's probably too much for benchrest guys, but when you're getting small groups from a hunting or varmint rifle, I'm satisfied with it. I use a Co-Ax press to load all rifle ammo; whether that has a bearing on anything or not, I don't know.

For those of you with experience in this area: if you're dealing with runout alone as a factor that affects accuracy, how much runout does it generally take to become a problem?

Another vote for Sinclair

I got the Hornady. I've checked mayeb 200 rounds and never found one over .003". Wish I'd of saved the money.

All I've ever used was an RCBS, just curious as to why some guys who've used both like the Sinclair better?

To some, it's worth it to know your dies are set up for minimal run-out. I have no regrets in having/using and keeping my Brown precision:



Might just be me though. I like accuracy and feel I owe it to the critter I'm pulling the trigger on....

lotech,

As I recall, the directions with the RCBS Casemaster suggests that runout of more than .005 inch won't result in better accuracy with most big game rifles, especially with full-length sized brass. They also suggest .003 inch as maximum for varmint rifles using neck-sized brass.

I've experimented considerably with various run-out gauges since about 1990, when I first acquired a Casemaster. I've found the RCBS directions (as well as I can remember them from 1990, anyway) were pretty much correct. I have also found that as much as .001 runout makes a difference in accuracy in my benchrest rifle--and that runout of .006 or more can make noticeable difference in group size in factory big game rifles.

So, as usual, it all depends.

I have the early Sinclair with the regular V-blocks, the current Sinclair with the bumps on the V-blocks, and a Casemaster. I use the Casemaster mostly.


Casey

I have the Casemaster and like the multiple functions it performs. I haven't used any other gauges though, so I don't have anything to compare against.

One word of caution when measuring case neck thickness with the Casemaster: The case neck pin sleeve on my unit didn't have perfectly square ends. What I mean is when I put the dial indicator on the sleeve and rotated it around (without measuring a piece of brass) it showed a .001 variation in itself. That is an issue when you are sorting case necks to .0015 variation or less. Also when measuring neck thickness, since the case head is not supported, if you are not careful the case will waggle(scientific term) around and cause inaccuracies in your readings. I ended up getting a mandrel and appropriate sized pilot from the Redding case neck gauge. It fits in the probe retainer of the Casemaster. The mandrel supports the case head better and I feel you get more accurate neck thickness readings that way.

Just my experience and 2 cents. I had no issues measuring bullet or neck concentricity with the Casemaster. It works well for me.

Mule Deer: Thank you; that's pretty much in line with what I was thinking.

Yep, it's just you, unlike the rest of the people on this thread who are discussing which concentricity guage is best and why.

And what do you do if you measure undue runout? You'll probably buy a better seating die.
I buy propper tools in the first place instead of wasting money on gadgets

Sounds very familiar. Sock puppet?

There are other sources of runout besides seating dies.

Nah, it's true mathman. You can use brass that's crooked as a banana with neck thickness variations but a "proper" seating die will fix all that.

Yep, that's the one I use but it's an old bastid. That article that was put out by Rifle magazine is very interesting and was informative for me. One of the reasons I bought the little wiggler when I found it in a local shop. Works excellent for my needs, but it may not be the best tool for someone else. This is the only reason I did not suggest it as the best and why. I say use what works for you, they all pretty much tell you the same thing, but you'd be very hard pressed finding a Brown Precision now days. I have no idea what Smoke pole is smoking either. Must be some good chit though...

It took a while for my memory to work.

I use the Hornady and have been very happy with it. It has revealed how much difference dies can make. Lee collet neck sizing dies typically result in .002 or less in runout vs .006 or so using RCBS. Group sizes and consistency have both improved.