Have gotten 1" groups at 100 yds with this load: 165 gr Sierra Pro-Hunter and 57 gr of IMR-4350. Then I tried 180 gr BT bulles with the same powder in charges of 55.5, 56, 56.5, and 57.0. Accuracy was much worse. The brass showed signs of over pressure at 56.5 and 57 grains.

Curious: Is it likely I could get better results with 180gr BTs if I switched to H4895? I have some H4895 and will likley try it just to see once I verify a charge weight range. Just curiuos if I should EXPECT accuracy to be better with this powder.

I don't think you "should" expect accuracy to be better with the H4895. Your velocity window will definitely be lower for the same pressures as the 4350. Seating depth changes may make more of a difference than switching powders, from my experience.

Well, with the 180's, I did only try one seating depth of 3.285", which was the same as the best accuracy with 165 gr bullets. I should probably play seating depth and IMR4350 before I move to H4895.

I had my best results with 180's and 59.0grs H4831

IMR 4831 has been good for 180's along with the 4350's. I usually use 54.5-55 grains of IMR 4350 with my 180 loads which are usually around 2600 ish, no critter has ever seemed to noticed it less than 100 fps than published figures.

H4895 is usually suited for lighter bullets, but would prolly work for 180's albeit a bit slower.

Try 4831SC....with 180s and above

My Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .30-06 with 165's didn't like IMR-4350, but loves 58.0gr of H-4350. Same brass, same primers, same seating depth, but great, small, round groups with the H version.

Under both Hornady 165gr BTSP and Barnes 165gr TSX.

Ed

In both the .30-06 and .308, I've had better luck from an accuracy standpoint using the 180 Sierras rather than the 165s. I've found the flatbase Sierra 180 spitzer will generally shoot at least slightly better than the BT version. I use 55 grs. H4350 for 2,700 fps from a 24" barrel. As for H4895, it's the best powder I've found for 180s in the .308. It may also work very well in the .30-06, but you'll probably give up a little velocity in comparison with H4350.

An old "no muss-no fuss" load for 180s in the '06 was a case full of 4831, leveled off, with a lead-cored bullet seated. Modern H4831 works about the same. Or just grab some Hunter.

I'm wondering why your seating depth is the same with both bullets? How far off the lands are you running them?

Try Hunter powder with 168 to 185 grain bullets. If you're interested throw me a pm and I'll give you a few recipes.




P

4895 is good stuff in the ol 06

For an accuracy load, try 56-57 gr of RL19 and almost any 165 bullet. Set base to ogive length at 3.560. Muzzle velocity with 22 inch barrel will be 2600-2700.

Are you shooting a Remington? That's a long seating depth! No two reamers cut the same exact chamber dimensions, and with all the reamers out there through time cutting 30-06 chambers, it is safe to say that seating depth recommendations for a rifle you have never seen can border on stupidly dangerous.

Darn good question! Can't believe I said that, but I did! Actually, the 165 gr BTs were set to 3.285" and the 180 gr Flat Based were set to 3.330" OAL. Stupid mis-type on my part. That would have been way short for the 180s.

FYI, the 165s are 0.040" shorter than the 180s.

I referenced several books and on-line references to come up with those OALs. As it worked out, those OALs are with the base of the bullet at the bottom of the case neck.

Got to be a typo on that OAL = 3.560. The 180 gr bullet is just 0.110" into the case!

If I load the max listed OAL of 3.340", the 180s are still way off the lands. Don't recall the exact length, but my Rem 700 has a deep throat.

I've got a couple lbs. of 4895. Think I'll load some up with both the 160s and 180s just see how that works out. If still lacking, then I'll buy some of the powders other have suggested.

Gun Geezer, maybe you don't know how to read!!!! That 3.56 is using the Sinclair Nut. COAL is 3.300+/-

Well now, in your post you did not mention anything about a "Sinclair Nut". Whatever that is. But, I think that a 30-06 cartridge measured from the base to anyting 3.560" away makes for a LONG cartridge.

But then, I'm new at this. Just color me as confused.

GunGeezer, you need to find out how far off the lands you are running those pills. Books suggested OAL's, usually don't give the best accuracy. I would disregard what the books say (concerning OAL) and load for YOUR rifle.

I use 59 grains of IMR 4350 with 150 Ballistic tips in my Remington 700. I hunt deer and pigs. It does great on them. Never tried heavier bullets.

Yep. I hear you. Don't recall the exact dimension, but the OAL would LONG to reach the land with 165's. I though it odd that it shot best at a realitvley short 3.285" OAL as comparted to 3.300 or 3.330" that I loaded.

With 180's I should be able to check a longer OAL and still have some more bullet left in the neck. I'll be trying that.

Thanks.

Classic load, I did the same for years, but did it with Sierras and Hornady flat based bullets. I also found 58gr IMR4350/165 anything shot in every '06 I ever tried it in, same with your load. Watch out for redbugs!

Jim, did you find flat based to be more accurate than tails with those loads?

Got some loads loaded for tomorrow. Loads for RL16, Hunter, RL17, and Big Game. All with 150gr Accubonds. Also have some I loaded about 2 weeks ago
in 165gr and 180gr. Mostly with Norma MRP and RL26.

GunTruck50: I wish you well for tomorrow. Let me know how it works out.

I loaded up 5 shots of each various combinations of OAL and powder weight. I found one combo that is particularly interesting: 46gr of H4895 under a Sierra 180 flat based spitzer with COAL of 3.330". 2nd shot was 1" from the first but shots 3, 4, and 5 just opened up the 2nd hole to about 40 caliber! Got to load 10 more with that combo and try it again next week. Maybe that first shot was a flukey flier and my rifle just LOVES 46gr of H4895 and 180 grainers. Here's hoping.

No surprise, but my shoulder is a tad sore this morning. 30 rounds of heavy -06 tenderizes the meat on both ends! I was also shooting my Accura V2 while the -06 cooled downed between grous. That didn't help.

The first shot may have been because of a clean cold barrel.
Since 1988, I have used 180 grain Nosler Solid Base pushed with 44 grains of H-4895 after reading of Wendell Swank. He collected game specimens in East Africa using his '06 with 48 grains of 4895 and 150 Sierra spitzers for the smaller animals and 44grs.4895 and 180 Sierra spitzers. His bag included kob, wart hogs, hartebeest. lion, buffalo, and hippo. So I figured it would work as well here in N. America and it has.

Could be. The was clean and ambient (90F). Next out, I'll have cleaned, fired 5 shots, and let it cool for 1/2 hour.

Thanks Joe.

Wowzer! I was using 57 grains of IMR-4350 and getting some really flat primers and did (upon close inspection) have one case crack. Not sure how your getting away with 59 grains. Bet that bullet is smoking down range!

In a 30-06 with a 150 I can tell you with a high degree of certainly that 57 grains of 4350 isn't going to crack brass in good condition.

Where was the crack, and how was it oriented?

How many firings on the case?

How are you sizing the brass?

59 grains of IMR 4350 is a plenty stout load, brass fatigue and failure wouldn't surprise me though I wouldn't be all that concerned about one case. I load 56 grains of IMR 4350 and get acceptable accuracy and feel no need to load any heavier.

I've shot 59grs with 150's for years and never had any issues.

Just goes to validate the fact that nearly every rifle is different as to what show pressure and what shoots just fine.

In my Sako Finnlight 30-06, 22.441"/570mm barrel, 54.3gr of H414 , CCI-250 primer , Lapua brass and a 200gr Accubond at factory COL easily hits milk jugs a 540 yards. This combo runs 2690 ft/s with an ES of 10ish ft/s.

+1, Not real fast but very accurate.

Circumferential about 3/8" from the base. Crack is 1/4 of the circumference.

3.

Sunday didn,t work out well with the 30/06. Magnetospeed keep sliding around and I got error messages. I was also shooting a Sako A7 in 270 wincheste,
no problem with the Magnetospeed on that fluted barrel. Did 2 loads with 3 shoot averages. first was 59.0gr of RL16, 150gr Accubonds WLR primer Win case.
3.250 OAL. I had worked up to this load earlier. Average was 3046fps SD 6.4. Yeaterday I reduced the load to 58.5gr and will try on Saturday. Along with my
270 win load. Other load was 57gr of RL16 R/P cases 165gr Accubonds CCI250 primers, 3.260 OAL. 3 shot average was 2976fps and SD of 18.6. Tried to get
a Ramshot hunter load but I lost the Data when I hit the wrong button on the Magnetospeed.

To me that reads like a head separation caused by thinning of the brass, not by pressure in a typical 30-06 load. How are you sizing the brass? If full length are you adjusting the die to suit the chamber, or are you following the generic instructions in the die box?

I think it's resizing also. When I first stated reloading I had this problem with 22-250 and 300 win mag. Backed off the die and problem disappeard. Ed k

I also notice he got "really flat primers" with what should be a relatively modest charge. Could that be the excess headspace, low pressure --> primers back out a bit and get flattened back in phenomenon?

I'm a bit of noob at this, and you guys are tossing out terms I don't know much about. Couple of responses:

1. First re-sizing was with a 30-06 die set I bought from the Fire Classifeds that turned out to be "small base" dies. They were a bit hard to size with, so I replaced them.

2. I'm using new bought RCBS dies on now, which were used on the other 2nd and 3rd re-sizings.

3. I follow the "generic instructions" in the box. I don't "adjust the die to suit the chamber". New on one me. Please fill me in.

4. I don't have a neck sizer die. Maybe I need one? I likely won't relaod 30-06 a LOT once I have a load developed, but I'm all for buying the right tools for my hobbies!!

5. Maybe the head space concern is real. Even the 56gr loads had pretty flat primers.

What about your scale?Put whatever grain weight bullet your shooting on your scale and see how close your scale is to that bullet weight.It should be + or - .1 or .2 of a grain. Examples(179.9,180,180.1,179.8,180.2)

I can't type up a long response right now. If you search the topic including my handle you can probably find a write up of mine. Maybe someone else can post it for you.

Here's an old post of mine:



I'm at work and it's getting busy, so I'll add to this post in small pieces as I can.

First let's assume, and yes I know what that can get us \:D , that the dimensions of the chamber and sizing die are within the normal range and there are no pathological brass problems. Furthermore since I'm primarily addressing the original poster who is new to the game I'll avoid mentioning measurement tools a real beginner may not yet have on his bench.

The main idea is to size the brass just enough to chamber the way we want while not excessively moving the brass around. We'll be working with brass that has been fired in the same chamber it's headed for now. We'll be full length sizing, but barely enough.

Remove the expander ball assembly from the die. When we're doing the initial adjustments we'll be passing a single piece of brass through the sizing process a number of times. We're trying to get the body and shoulder of the case sized the correct amount and while this is getting ironed out there's no reason to size the neck down and run it over the expander ball a bunch of times.

With the proper shellholder installed in the press ram, lower the handle so the ram is in its highest position. Thread the die into the press until it touches the shellholder, and then back it out a turn.

Clean a case really well with a piece of steel wool, paying particular attention to the neck and shoulder areas. Wipe it down with alcohol and after it dries color the neck and shoulder area with a permanent marker. After the ink dries size the case.

More than likely when you examine the case you'll see the ink disturbed part of the way down the neck while the ink on the shoulder is undisturbed. We're going for getting nearly all of the neck sized without messing up the shoulder. The shoulder is going to get bumped eventually, but not too much.

Just to check, wipe the lube off the case and see if it smoothly chambers in the rifle. At this point it should.

Turn the die in 1/6 turn, re-lube and size the brass. Check out how far down the neck is getting sized. Is it close to all the way? Is the ink on the shoulder being touched by the die? Does the case still chamber without resistance?

As this process is repeated 1/6 turn at a time you'll most likely reach a point where nearly all of the case neck is sized, the die still hasn't disturbed the ink on the shoulder, but when you try to chamber the brass the bolt won't close on the sized case without significant resistance, or maybe it won't close at all. After the extracting the brass from the gun you'll see the chamber has disturbed the ink on the case shoulder.

This is the critical zone. The die has squeezed the body of the brass below the shoulder, and this has caused the length of the case from the head to the shoulder to increase. Yes, increase. Remember when you checked the shoulder ink after sizing it hadn't been disturbed by the die. What we want to do is size the case a little more, just enough to eliminate the chambering difficulty.

Clean and re-ink the case. Screw the die into the press another 1/12 turn and size the case. Has the shoulder ink been disturbed by the die?

Yes: Try the case in the chamber. If it chambers with just a little "feel" upon closing the bolt you're almost done.

No: Turn the die in another 1/12 turn and repeat.

So now you've sized and resized this piece of brass so it chambers with a small bit of resistance when you close the bolt. Sounds good, right? Well almost.

You see, a piece of brass that hasn't been through the die as many times as this one will not size down quite as much in one pass. So the die will probably need to go into the press a little bit more for perfection, say 1/24 turn. Give it that final little adjustment.

Install the expander ball assembly back in the die. Lube a different case, including the inside of the neck, and run it through the sizer. Wipe it off and try it for fit in the rifle. If the bolt closes with little or no resistance you're golden.

This procedure is one of those things that's harder to describe than it is to demonstrate. If someone who knows the ropes was there with you they could have you up and running inside five or ten minutes. Once you learn how your sizing die and rifle chamber interact with your particular lot of brass you can set up the die without having to jump through these hoops again.

mathman

I PMed them to him just as you posted here.

I had taken the liberty of saving them because they are pretty well-written,

Thanks.

Good thinking. But I have some test weights. And both and electronic and digital scale. The scales are good.

Gents that's a lot to take in. I'll work it over this weekend.

Thanks!

I like your honesty. Good to see someone wants to learn the right way. Check out mathman's instructions on how to properly adjust your dies and you'll be golden. There's a lot to properly adjusting both your FL sizing die and your seating die. I haven't read through mathman's lengthy post and instructions, but I know how he works and he's usually spot on...

My LH Rem 700 06 with a Mtn barrel , RP case F 210 Primer 168 Barnes TSX 59 Gr H 4350 shot a .20" 3 shot group Tuesday. Thinking it likes that load.

Geezer - you do not say what scope. or what you are shooting at. the older 700's have great triggers once they have been adjusted. I load for 6 30-06's . just pick a 150, 167, 168 , 178, or 180 depend if you are shooting deer elk bear coyotes. load it .030 off the lands. lapua brass. br-2 or 210m primer. varget.

My 30.06 prefers 180 grain bullets. Nosler tends to be very picky with seating depth to get them to shoot accurately in my experience. I find .20-.30 off the lands works best in my rifle for seating depth. I am using 58.5 grains of Reloder 22 for 180 grain projectiles which is working great. I'm not sure the velocity that I'm getting from them but the accuracy is there!

Just got back from the range, Shot the 30/06, load was 58.6gr of RL16 150gr Accubond with WLR primers and Win cases. Did have
one group with 3 shots touching. Rifle is a Weatherby Mark 5 Weathermark. Recoil is quit a bit more than the 270 Winchester I was shooting.