Buddy called and found me a box of Barnes 35815.
200gr flatbase X for my 358 Winchester.
Thinking of pushing it with TAC, MAX LOAD.
I've had good results with the 200RN and 52.0 gr with magnum primers.
How's this load for expansion? What's the minimum velocity it'll expand. I'm just shooting deer (150-175#) an possibly pigs and black bear.

I just got done shooting the 200g TSX out of my .358. I loaded 51g of TAC per Mule Deer's suggestion since it is a lever action. This with a 22" barrel. For some reason I was only getting 2400fps from this load. The max load MD showed was 52g at over 2700fps. I doubt 1 grain will make a 350fps difference so there must be something else going on.

As per Barnes, their .358's open to:

180gr to 1900fps
200gr to 1800fps
225gr to 1600fps

Can you confirm that's for the TSX (hollow point) and not the tipped TTSX? I remember the TTSX were supposed to open at lower velocity, but forget the exact details.

They only make 3 options in .358. What started this all for me was when I emailed them about their .308 168 TTSX and they told me it opens down to 1500 fps. After that, I began emailing for confirmation of every projectile of theirs I shoot. Surprisingly enough, almost every offering they make has a different lower limit. I'm guessing that's partially what leads to their erratic reviews. For example, there was one that was only rated to 2000 fps. I think it was the .243 TTSX, but I'd have to check my emails to confirm.

It seems like the ones they anticipate starting at higher MV are toughened up a bit. Based on the .243 example I had as well as the .358 above. Seems like higher the weight (lower expected MV), the "softer" the bullet.

Or they're all made with the same metal and they just tell people what they want to hear, knowing full well the bullets will work.

Are these Hispanic bullets?

If they are not..........

U are assuming they will work.....

At least on dairy cows

I shoot the Barnes X in my 35 Whelen and they will work down to about 1800 at the ranges you are looking at.

I have used IMR-3031 for my rifle,they chrono at 2700fps+-.

They will do a job on what ever you hit with them.

The material they're made of is only one factor in the equation. Size & depth of the hollow point, depth of petal cuts, bullet diameter, etc all play a role as well.

The TTSX for example have a huge hollow point in comparison to the TSX, and does act differently on impact. It's definitely not Barnes just telling people what they want to hear.

Actually they offer the 200gr in both TSX and TTSX varieties; that's why I asked. Midway .358 Barnes

The 180 is only in TTSX, and the 225 is only TSX.

[quote=Yondering It's definitely not Barnes just telling people what they want to hear.[/quote]

Yeah, I didn't really think that post thru and word it right. I have so much faith in Barnes I tend not to over analyze them, just trust them to work.

Gotcha.

I think in some of the slower 35's though it's worth considering minimum expansion velocity. For example, a 35 Rem that might only launch that 200gr at 2,000-2,100 fps won't have a lot of range before it drops below 1800 and won't expand. This is of course talking about loading your own, not buying factory Barnes ammo.

I suspect that 1800 fps number for the 200gr though is for the TSX, the TTSX does open at lower velocity which I think is down to ~1600.

What I have here is older discontinued X.

I've always wondered the same thing Roy. Whether the copper was tempered or fooled w/on certain bullets. I know the X original had complaints about not opening. I have stuck to the original 90gr X in my 250AI because it's always worked so well. Never found one but boy do they kill Deer. They've always expanded and killed well but I drive them to 3200fps. powdr

I made some 224 caliber 75gr solid copper bullet and harden them, shot a doe this year right behind the eye, you could of ran a wooden dowel in through both holes, no expansion at all. she had blood pumping out the impact hole, her brain was liquid. so Barnes may harden them for bullets pushed faster

The only Barnes bullet I've used on game is the 225 gr. .35 caliber TSX. Five shots, five elk, none of the bullets recovered. Accuracy is excellent.

Been doing some playing with 120 and 140 gr. TSX in the 7x57 and .280 Rem. but so far have not gotten the accuracy I would accept. I haven't decided if I'll continue with those bullets in those rifles.
Paul B.

I have a bunch of the old 200 grain .348 Win's "X's". These have been very good and ironically some of the more accurate "X's" I've used. They also expand into 6 petals, not sure if the .358 ones do as well or not.

How did you "harden" copper bullets?

quote]

How did you "harden" copper bullets?[/quote]


tumble it in course media, it's call work hardening.

You have to actually change dimensions to cause work hardening, at least in the elastic range if not permanent deformation. The best you could do with tumbling or even shot peening is a minor change in surface hardness, which has little to no effect on bullet expansion, and only if you did it enough to dimple the surface. That does nothing for hardening the inside of a copper part.

If you want to harden copper you need to actually work (i.e. deform) the material. Hammer it, squeeze it, form it, etc. I was wondering if you had made a swage setup of some sort to handle solid copper.

Barnes does not "harden" their bullets for different applications, although it's possible they anneal some or all of them after forming. They tune for different velocity ranges by controlling the size and shape of the hollow point and petals.

more change than you think. I have done testing, other wise I wouldn't be doing it

Please elaborate. I'm very skeptical, having some background and experience in metalurgy and in surface treatments like shot peening.

Have you actually sectioned solid copper pieces to measure internal hardness before and after tumbling? Or are you just measuring surface hardness?

surface and on live deer, penetration on steel plates

I guess I'm not understanding how you're checking for anything besides minor surface hardening. I assume you know that even fully annealed pure copper is too hard for expansion of a solid bullet in deer; so are you forming some sort of hollow point, or what am I missing there?

Don't get me wrong, if you've figured out something useful I'm all ears and interested in learning about it.

A scientific approach to it when shooting steel plates, the bullets that weren't peeing Harden made a little over 1/2" wide by maybe quarter inch deep impression in the steel plate, bullets that were tumbled harden made a 3/8" wide to a little over 1/2" deep penetration, on the same steel plate. that's why I figured that it made some difference in hardness. this was done 5 times using the same bullet, same load, test was done at 100 yards, steel plate was a 1" thick 4'x4', so the steel was the same for all testing. these bullets have no hollow point or flat tip, tip is like a needle, shot out of a 223 1-7 twist barrel. This wasn't a Laboratory test or test for hardness with a Rockwell tester, this was a Hands-On hands Real World test shooting live animals and steel plates