? re 35 Whelen loads - 24hourcampfire

Hi all,
I have a rem 7600 in 35 Whelen and was trying loads for it - I used a federal large rifle primer with remington brass and a 250 gr hornady round nose bullet. I started with 50 gr of RL15 and was going to work up to 54 gr.. i must say i am normally very conservative with reloads looking for decent hunting accuracy and never pushing the pressure/speed envelope.
The fired brass came out very hot to the touch with the 50 gr load and the primer was a touch proud - no other signs of excess pressure. same thing with the 51 and 52 gr loads so i just stopped there. I tried 4064 in the past and got the same results - very hot brass with slightly proud primers.

any idea what's up with this? I am going to get a box of factory ammo and see what happens with that.
none of my other rifle reloads have brass this hot.

wondering if it could be something with the gun?

thanks for your thoughts.

Brass is typically hot when fired, no big deal.

Only time I've had proud primers was on light low pressure 44 loads.

You've probably seen it but there's a lot of Whelen info here: http://35cal.com/loading.html

The Hornady manual says 53.2 gr. Rl15 does 2300 FPS from a 22" barrel (Remington M700) and 55.1 gr. 2400 FPS which is the max in the manual. That probably puts you at 2350 FPS or thereabouts. Not sure what you mean by slightly proud primers??? Are they flattened some? Protrude slightly from the base of the shell? I doesn't surprise me that the fired shells are "hot". How quickly do you eject them from the rifle after firing? Have you ever picked up a freshly ejected .223 round from an Mini 14 or AR15. They're hot enough to blister the skin. I load and shoot three rifles in .35 Whelen and while the cases are warmish, I've never noticed them being all that hot, temperature wise. I'd be interested in hear how the test with the factory loads go.
Paul B.

Could be excessive headspace, but other possible causes too.

NRA Shooting Illustrated: Problems with Primers

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Dave Emary, Hornady's chief ballistics scientist, says excessive headspace can cause primers to back out or even pop out completely. There can be other culprits, like a rifle chamber cut very tightly, a throat cut too short or a barrel with a tight bore. On rare occasions, the cartridge brass might not have been properly annealed. Temperature can also be an issue, and this was my suspicion.

Dealing with Headspace by Todd Spotti - redding-reloading.com

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Headspace is like Goldilocks porridge. It has to be just right for the best accuracy. Too much is bad and too little is also bad. So how do we know when we have too much headspace? There are a couple of obvious tell tale signs on our fired cases that are sure fire indicators. The first is a protruding primer. If, after firing, you see the primer is backed out of the primer pocket, even a little bit, you have excessive headspace. Remember, the top of the primer in an unfired case is supposed to be located just below the case head after it has been seated. If it's sticking out after the shot has been fired, the case is too loose in the chamber.

The second indication of too much headspace is a excessively stretched case. When the powder is ignited, the case is expanding in all directions, including front and rear. Brass does have a limited amount of "springback", but when the amount of headspace exceeds the ability of the case to springback, the case will be permanently stretched and weakened. Stretched cases can be easily identified by a bright, light colored ring located just forward of the head. The case at that point has been stretched dangerously thin. Those cases should be thrown away immediately as they will come apart at that point sooner or later. Case head separations can sometimes be very nasty.

My suspicion would be that the brass is being full length sized and the die is not properly adjusted pushing the shoulder back too much thus creating excess headspace in the cartridge. I would try backing out the FL sizing die a quarter turn or so and seeing if that helped.

I had the same super hot brass in my 7600. For those who haven't experienced it, they were hot like I've never seen out of any bolt gun. I still don't understand why. I was trying to get 225g Sierra's to shoot using Varget. I've really struggled to find any loads that shoot well. I'd be content to find a load that shot into 2." I'm going to give 4064 a try this summer. If that fails, I'll send the rifled down the road.

Originally Posted by elkaddict

I had the same super hot brass in my 7600. For those who haven't experienced it, they were hot like I've never seen out of any bolt gun. I still don't understand why. I was trying to get 225g Sierra's to shoot using Varget. I've really struggled to find any loads that shoot well. I'd be content to find a load that shot into 2." I'm going to give 4064 a try this summer. If that fails, I'll send the rifled down the road.

REL-15 and 225's (Sierra, Nosler and when available TBBC) has been the more accurate in my rifle than 4064. I haven't tried Varget.

Gary

In addition to RL-15, I've used RL-12 (obsolete, but available at some gun shows) with good results in my Rem. 7600 Whelen. H4895 also works with the 225gr bullets in this rifle, but I've not been able to get the velocity I wanted that the other two powders readily produce. (M. D. Smith's reloading site has reloading data for the .35 Whelen using RL-12.)

Originally Posted by gunswizard

My suspicion would be that the brass is being full length sized and the die is not properly adjusted pushing the shoulder back too much thus creating excess headspace in the cartridge. I would try backing out the FL sizing die a quarter turn or so and seeing if that helped.

Yes the brass is full length sized - i set the die as per RCBS instructions but will back it out 1/4 turn and see what happens - thanks

Originally Posted by elkaddict

I had the same super hot brass in my 7600. For those who haven't experienced it, they were hot like I've never seen out of any bolt gun. I still don't understand why. I was trying to get 225g Sierra's to shoot using Varget. I've really struggled to find any loads that shoot well. I'd be content to find a load that shot into 2." I'm going to give 4064 a try this summer. If that fails, I'll send the rifled down the road.

I shot 5 rounds today of varying powder charges and 3 holes were touching and 1/2 inch under that 2 holes were touching. this was at 50 yds

RL 15 with hornady 250 gr round nose

Undersized brass, large chamber & light loads will have primers backed out, some Rem Whelen brass was small as I recall.

Fire Form your brass and work up to mid pressure loads and you should be fine, brass could be hotter than normal with light loads
if brass was undersize, any soot on shoulder of fired brass?

Not much of a shoulder on the Whelen easy to create brass headspace issue by oversizing brass.

Best load in my Rem 7600 35 Whelen, RP Whelen brass, CCI 200, 56 GR of IMR 4320, Speer 250 gr.

My go to load in my .35 Whelen is 54.5 gr. of IMR 4064 with 225 gr. Sierra or Nosler. Three shot 100 yd. groups avg. 1-1.5" and this is an effective load on whitetails. I have tried RL-15 and Varget but get best accuracy from IMR 4064.

back your sizing die way off the case shoulder....the Whelen just doesnt have much of a shoulder to headspace on

Originally Posted by Recurve1

Yes the brass is full length sized - i set the die as per RCBS instructions but will back it out 1/4 turn and see what happens - thanks

If I had set my 35 Whelen die per the instructions I could have about thrown a piece of brass in the chamber it would have been oversized so much. I set the shoulders back .0015" on my rifles.

If you've never had your buddies M16 put a hot case down your neck...you've missed one of the "Great Adventures" of Life!

I have 2 Whelens. I found that if I set my FL size die .010" off the shell holder (via feeler gage), the rounds still can be chambered in both rifles. Your mileage may vary......

I get better accuracy with Hornady SP bullets than their RN bullets. Unless you're shooting at >200 yards though, it doesn't make much difference. The best powders for accuracy with 250 grain bullets is H4895 and WW748. I prefer the H4895 as I am predjudiced against Winchester Ball powders.

I used a magnum primer with R15/250 & 310 in my Whelen AI with great accuracy. Might work for you...

I load for four rifles in 35 Whelen. Two are mine, a Ruger and an Encore with and MGM Barrel, my son's Encore and a neighbor's CVA. All four are tack drivers with IMR-4064 pushing Barnes 225 TSX. I am getting a tad under 2700 fps from the Ruger and a tad over 2700 fps with the Encore. Encore has a 26" barrel and the Ruger a 24" barrel. I have not chronographed the CVA yet. I load with 59 grains or 58 grains. Three like 59 grains. The CVA likes 58 grains. Accuracy in all four is excellent.