During last year's cow hunt, I really wanted to try the 165/168 grain family of bullets. I also wanted to try either an IMR Duron or RL16 powder. Well I found some 16 and decided the 165 NAB was going to be the poison pill combo for that hunt. At the time there was no data for the combination but using Western's guildlines, if landed around 57.0 grns. On my first attempt, I got good velocity but my group trailed low and to the right. Ok shooter error. Reloaded and got a better rest to use. No longer trailed but not the size of group I was looking for, crud. One week before the hunt I decided to go with old faithful. I generally don't shoot factory ammo but if I have out of my 30-06 or 270 I shoot Fusions. My first three shots out of a cold barrel print a hole that can be covered by a quarter. A few days later, I had meat in the freezer.

I believe the problem isn't RL16; the 165 NAB; me or the rifle. Its still my load and I think Its in my OAL.

Are you using this combination and how far off of lands are you?

Would it be feasible to take the jump distance from the Fusions and apply that to my reloads?

HaYen

Different cartridge/caliber, but I’ve had some ABs I couldnt get to shoot well after trying many powders, OALs, etc .

Quickest way to find out OAL ie bullet touching the lands is to take a fired case pinch the case mouth with pliers not to much just enough to hold a bullet in place. Once done put bullet in the case mouth push it in a little and color the bullet with a black sharpie. Put dummy round in rifle and chamber it sometime the bullet will get stuck in the lands, sometimes not but thats the reason for the black sharpie. Look where the mark is at on the bullet that's where the case mouth stopped on the bullet. Push bullet into the case mouth until you get to the mark on the bullet and measure the OAL length. That will be your length with the bullet touching the lands. AB do like jump and this is where you have to experiment with OAL. Also I found that Nosler and Hornady do a good job getting you into the ball park with the OAL of their bullets. Nosler recommends 3.320 as the OAL with the 165 AB.

I usually start at .020 off lands and work from there, you might need to squeeze a bit more powder in there with a longer COAL. Make sure your not over mag length. 4350 would also be a good powder to try .

I just measured my OAL using a 165 NBT. It came in at 3.290 making 3.320 exactly .030 of the lands. I can move in .010 to 3.310 for 20 off and work 10 out from there till I hit 3.340 or 50 thousands off the lands.

Huh?? So your max oal touching the lands is 3.290?

Shxt. I measured it wrong. Well this will take a second attempt. I'll shut up now. I know I know start long and work your way short. SHXT

A Kanak in AZ?! I don't have experience with Re16, but I load 165's with 4064 (Hornady BTSP). I seat to maybe 20 thou shy of the lands. Puts the cannelure past the case mouth. Seating at the cannelure didn't give the groups I wanted. I too had to grab factory (for different reasons). Shot Hornady 178 Long Range. They seemed well short of engaging. That load bucked, but did the job. Check your PM.

I run mine at 3.340, which is .015 off the lands in my 30+ year old howa . I’m sure it has some throat erosion over the years, but it still shoots. It took a little playing to find the right coal load, but it was worth it. I had to go over book by a 1/2 grain with the longer coal, which increases case capacity.

I like to start at the start.

This is my method (everybody has their own).

First, I kiss the lands. I make it a good kiss (ya got to let her know you mean it)
Then, I work up in 1/2 to 1 grain increments until I find what "I" deem is safe pressure.
Next, I begin by backing off .005" at a time until I find the most acceptable accuracy.
Then, I work my powder charges back down 5/10ths at a time to again, find the best accuracy.

This method works well for me.YMMV.

56.5 gr (give or take half a grain) of R-17 has been a great load for 165’s in several ‘06’s for me. In My Nosler rifle, 56 gr r-17 just put a 5 round (165 ballistic tips) group in less than .80” at 100 yrds, pushing them about 2880 FPS. I load them .050 off the lands.
Another way to check max oal is to jam a “too long” cartridge gently in the barrel, slightly into the lands. Stick a small, long, wooden dowel down the barrel. Mark the dowel at the end of the barrel (very precisely). Then remove the cartridge and do the same thing with the wooden dowel up against the closed bolt face. Now precisely mark the end of the barrel on the dowel. Measure between the two marks and you should have a good idea of “max overall length for that bullet in your rifle. Test some seated bullets to see if they slightly stick in the rifling. Just slowly adjust your seating die, deeper, checking to see if the cartridges stick. As soon as they fall freely out of the chamber, you know you are at a good starting point for group testing.

I have used RL-16 in one of my 30-06s with 180 grain bullets. I found it took two grains less RL-16 versus IMR 4350. That rifle is old, and probably has a worn throat. So, it takes 58 grains of IMR 4350 to break 2,700 fps. It takes 56 grains of RL-16 to do the same. The rifle is a Sears Model 53 with 22" barrel (actually a post-64 Model 70 Winchester). It shoots about anything pretty well, including the 165 grain Federal Fusion ammo you mentioned. In fact, the Fusion ammo and my 180 grain handloads shoot into the same group at 100 yards, and the group is small.

Another of my three 30-06s is a new Bergara B-14. It has a shorter throat and a 24" barrel. Velocities are significantly higher with this rifle. 58 grains of IMR 4350 would be too hot in the Bergara. Federal Premium ammo loaded with 180 grain Barnes TSX bullets is listed at 2,700 fps on the box. In my Bergara it clocks 2,840 fps, 100 fps faster than my other two 30-06s. The third '06 is a Tikka Model 695 with 22-1/2" barrel.

Used 56.0gr of RL17 with 165gr Barnes TTSX 215M primer Win cases OAL was 3.270 For 2914fps mild load.

61gr RL17 130gr TTSX R/P cases WLR primer 3.260 OAL 3273fps

59.5gr of RL16 150gr Accubond WLR primer Win case 3.260 OAL 3146fps

All these loads shot good in my Weatherby wit 24" barrel. none seemed hot in my rifle.

Reloader16 is the “cat’s meow” in my 30.06(Win Model 70 w/Pac Nor custom barrel).
I’m loading 165gr Accubonds w/57.0gr ......chronograph says 2,915 fps, 3 shots into 0.6” at 100 yds(57.5 gr = 2,940 fps in my rifle but groups opened up to 1.0”). No high pressure signs on brass or heavy bolt lift. I seat way off the lands and work in from there. Usually start around what a factory cartridge OAL would be(I like my bullets to feed/function through my magazine box and action smoothly and to not slam against the front of the magazine causing tip damage).

My OAL is 3.230” - 3.240” for 165 gr Accubonds in 30.06.

I think kissing the lands for best accuracy is over rated.....never had a problem finding accurate loads with bullets seated way off lands and more often than not find the best load by doing so....plus, backing off the lands = lower pressure as well(safer, IMO).

Leftybolt

I am far from being an experienced reloader, but am pleased with the performance of the .30/06 and 165-168 bullets using IMR 4451 or H4350. They group ~ 1" at 100 yards with the 168 grain TTSX and 165 grain Woodleigh PSP's in carefully assembled handloads.

That said, the most accurate load I have found in .30/06 is the Barnes factory loaded 168 grain TTSX, which groups at to below 1" at 200 yard in my Blaser R93 and performed superbly on a PG cull hunt in late May and early June of this year.

I just finished shooting 180 NAB with 57.0 Re 16, 2825, MOA for 5 shots. I think its ready for elk season..................

Interestingly the other load my 06 likes is 57.5 H4350 under the same 180 NAB and same COAL. It shoots about 1.25" for 5 shots at 100.

Correction to my earlier post:

My 165gr Accubond load in 30.06 has an OAL of 3.280”(my bad). It is my 7mm Rem Mag load with 140 gr Barnes T-TSX that is seated to OAL of 3.230”.

All my hand loads for rifles in 223 Rem, 243 Win, 250 Sav., 270 Win, 30.06, 7mm Rem Mag and 300 Win Mag jump the bullets into the rifling.
All those loads shoot sub-MOA for 3 shots at 100yds.(most loads measure 0.5”-0.75”...... a couple go less than 0.5”), the 30.06 has the only custom barrel, all the others are factory tubes(But, of course I’ve floated the barrels and tuned the triggers on all of them). Bullets loaded include: Barnes T-TSX, Nosler Accubonds, Partitions, Swift Scirocco II, and Hornady SP-Interlocks.

Seating depth(kissing the lands) doesn’t always equate to best accuracy. Lots of factors involved......

Leftybolt

Later I tried 57.0gr of RL16 165gr Accubond CCI250 primer R/P case 3.260OAL
Velocity was 2987 FPS for 7 shots. SD 17.2

Next week I tried 57.5gr of RL16 165gr Ballistic Tip WLR primer and Win cases. 3.270 OAL
Velocity was 2975FPS SD 16.0 But only 3 shots. All in 24" barrel Weatherby.

Does look strange going slower with more powder.

168 Nosler Ballistic Tip is no slouch, either, as my brother can tell you.









P

GunTruck50,

Not surprising at all regarding the velocity being slower with more powder.

Most likely due to using Win brass vs Rem brass. Remington brass is almost always thicker and annealed harder than Win brass(which increases pressure resulting in higher velocity). All my loads with Remington brass clock faster than with Win brass.

Leftybolt

Lefty I agree probably difference in case capacity. I have some new federal 270 win case that I got cheap. Found out
that the case capacity is really small. Most of my loads have be over a full grain less than Winchester cases.

Some of my best and fastest shooting handloads have been worked up using Federal brass.

Good luck,

Leftybolt