Got a few loads on paper this week. First time loading 127's.

I have a good idea of what I want to try/explore but would like to get some opinions. Really on whether I should keep adding powder or experiment with one or two of the loads I have here. To some extent im questioning the shooter or the loads, most of the groups I seem to be able to get 2 close and one further out. Id almost be happier if all the shots were scattered so I could say it was the rifle definitively. I could also go to 5 shot groups but the Finnlight heats up pretty quick.

H4350
Lapua brass
CCI BR2 primer
Barnes 127gr LRX


Charge Weight 43
Extreme Spread: 7
Standard Deviation: 3
Average:2661


Charge Weight 43.3
Extreme Spread: 22
Standard Deviation: 11
Average:2675

Charge Weight 43.6
Extreme Spread: 14
Standard Deviation: 3
Average:2698


Charge Weight 43.9
Extreme Spread: 29
Standard Deviation: 14
Average:2719


Charge Weight 44.2
Extreme Spread: *
Standard Deviation: *
Average:2744



Charge Weight 44.5
Extreme Spread: 25
Standard Deviation: 13
Average:2763


Charge Weight 44.8
Extreme Spread: 10
Standard Deviation: 6
Average:2777


Charge Weight 45.1
Extreme Spread: 18
Standard Deviation: 9
Average:2793







Here is 43.6, measured .357




43.9, measured 1.141

See if you can duplicate 44.2.

43.6-44.2 showed the most promise but 44.2, velocity wise,is about as slow as I want to be. Not sure if the groups will shrink back up if I push it harder.

Is it possible the flyer on 43.9gr was a fluke? 43.6gr to 44.5gr all look good otherwise. If it were me, I'd try the 44.2gr and 44.5gr8 loads again with 5 or 6 shots per group.

How is the run-out on your rounds?

Very likely, I even recall saying I might have pulled that one......that being said, I dont typically look at the group when shooting so I cant say if the flyer was the shot I thought I pulled or not. I was hoping that group would have been tighter to at least confirm an accuracy node in there. Figure I'll reshoot it. I typically shoot 5 shot groups with my heavier barreled guns but didnt want to the heat to affect the 4th or 5th shot on such a thin barrel. Sako guarantees 5 shot MOA so I guess it wouldn't really hurt. I was primarily doing 3 shots on these just to get as many different charges through the gun to find a spot for 5 shot load workups. I don't have a runout tool but they pass my roll on the table test

I would just go back to the 44.5 gr. load and try different seating depths starting at max mag length or chamber length and going shorter. Then once you find a sweet spot go back and check the 43-45 grain loads. Me I would start with R26 and the 129 ABLR which is what I will be shooting this year. Ran it over 3,000 fps and then dropped it down to 2,900 which I think is where I will leave it for now.

Even though you only ran 8 different powder charges, you've run a modified Satterlee Load development.

http://www.65guys.com/10-round-load-development-ladder-test/

Indeed, I used his ladder test when doing my 5.56 load workup. If I would have had a better handle on waht to expect pressure wise, I would have done the same here and started a little hotter. Last night I did cook up a few more of the to accuracy loads shown here as well 45.4 and 45.7 to see if I can fall back into another accuracy node.

Finally made it back to the range. Not really sure what to think. Not really happy with the 5 shot groups. Id really like to get them consistently at .75 or better.

Only thing changed on these loads was OAL, there were 3.065, which should be .105 off, the first batch was 2.975 or .195 off the lands.

I can either play with seating depth a little more on the 44.2 and 44.5 load(the first 3 out of this one are the ones closest to each other, the 4th shot is the high one), try Varget or H4831SC, push velocities to the 2850 range and see if things tighten up?

On the bright side the temp when shooting the first loads was 80 degrees, the 2nd batch was shot at 15. H4350 kept avg velocities within 5 fps.

Last string doesn't really tell me anything except maybe 44.2 is a sweet spot. I would do two things seat the next batch to 3.150" or whatever the chamber/magazine will allow then continue to work up and see where the maximum charge is. You can compare data for the 6.5 SCAN data to see what is max for modern rifles, not many have info on it but VV and Norma do. The Barnes loads are not anemic.

See if you hit another accuracy node and then test this load along with the 44.2 load for optimal seating depth. I think that 44.2 is a good baseline for accuracy and you may get the same accuracy plus some more velocity too. Somewhere around 2800-2,900 fps seems to be an accuracy node for the mid weight 6.5s, at least in my experience.

If you are not getting the speed you want then switch to R26 this can easily get you close to 2,900 fps. Once you find the best over all length you may get lucky and it will work for different powders.

Do you have experience with RL26 in varying temps? I've largely avoided my RL powders due to my experience with them having big velocity swings at different times of the year.

I’d be happy with a few of those groups. Where’d you get the starting data? Interesting because Barnes published data for the 127 LRX runs between about 35 and 38 gr of H4350, which seems slow. You’re surpassing that by a good bit.

Im not unhappy really. I just had higher expectations. I always said once I get my hunting rifles to shoot an inch or better I'll call it good. I typically only do 3 shot groups with most of my guns but Sako has a 5 shot accuracy guarantee so I figure I would check. I also think 5 shot groups give more validity to the load. Even if it turns out it can only hold .4 groups for 3 shots, at least I'll know I better be spot on with my followup shots.

Not sure where Barnes got their data but its way under the other 5 sources I referenced.

Time for a new powder or new bullet? No luck on getting any of previous loads to repeat themselves. Took the 44.2 loads that came in under an inch last week and it came up 1.7in. Also tweaked the seating depth on the 44.2 loads with a couple for 3 shot strings and it didnt help, got worse actually. Due to the random flyers, I figured Id clean the barrel before this range session. Shot 2 foulers. Shot a 3 shot string of 45.4gr to see if boosting the speed would tighten things up(this group shot .7). 5 shot string of 44.2, then 3 shots each of 44.2 with different seating depths. If the 44.2 lao would have held 1moa I could have least used it as a fall back. Now Im pretty much back to square one.

Ive got about 5 boxes or LRX left, 20ish in the open box. Here are my conclusions:

1. The Sako simply doesnt like the LRX bullet
2. The powder bullet combo are off or this is as good as it gets.
3. The shooter is off, always possible, but, I usually have another rifle with to shoot between shot strings and I can stack holes with those.
4. Something is not quite 100% consistent witth the rifle.

Possible solutions:

1. Try a new powder(pretty much where im at...thinking H4831SC or Varget) I have 20 LRX left in the open box, could shoot 6-3 shot strings and see if anything pops.
2. Try a new bullet(have 140gr Bergers, Amax, Nosler CC, SMK) basically, see if the rifle is capable of even shooting the consistent .75 or better groups Im chasing. If it cant do it with match bullets, maybe its just not a shooter.
3. Stop shooting 5 shot groups. My though is, if it can shoot small 5 shot groups consistently, it will shoot even better 3 shot groups. Ive also seen that small 3 shot groups are sometimes not repeatable with this rifle.
4. Perhaps the Sako could benefit from bedding or new stock. Nothing to confirm this, just guessing at this point.

On the bright side, the loads themselves have been very predictable and repeatable from a velocity, ES and SD standpoint. Duplicate loads are with a FPS of each other on all accounts.


Now what?


I wrote 42.2 on the board, it was 44.2



The 45.4 load avg 2810fps

Sounds like something came loose to me. Check the scope mounts? Did you remove the stock in between? Inconsistent bedding? Few too many beers the night before for the trigger man?

Usually not enough Beers

Dont think the Sakos are bedded, never had the stock off. The random fliers are making me think its a mechanical problem(scope/rings/stock etc). I guess I'm used to seeing when groups don't want o group, they're equally dispersed, as in most of them are separate. Not 3 touching then a flier or 2in the same hole and a flier. Chrono numbers are coming back very consistent so im inclined to think the rounds themselves are good to go.

Seems logical to me. Especially with consistent velocity in ammo and handloads that you know are consistent. As you shoot check barrel float with a dollar bill. I had a 25-06 Weatherby MkV ultralight years ago that did the same thing. It would group great the first couple shots and then get squirrelly as it heated up. It’s unpredictable nature drove me crazy. In between shots I would try sliding a bill under the barrel and sometimes it was snug, sometimes it was loose. Totally inconsistent. I sold it. That light bbl was all over the place. I’m sure it would have benefited from a good bedding/floating job. Lightweight rifles/barrels need bedding imo. I’d check your scope/bases/rings first. Then I’d try a bedding job. I’d rule out the mechanical variables.

If I might suggest . Perhaps you have already tried this? Take your best group & re- shoot with the bullet seated .010" deeper. See if that makes any difference. On my various 6.5 ( 6.5x308, 260,6.5x55, 6.5-06 .264mag ) My Barnes bullets are seated so that you can just see the upper part of the upper relief grove. I get small consistent groups. If seating .010 deeper helps maybe a little deeper will shrink groups to better uniformity.. Also if your Bbl is free floated I have found a benefit in beading the first 3" of Bbl. just in front of the action..Stiffens the Bbl. Some thoughts. Wish you the best.

Buddy of mine same the said thing. Things there might be a littl too much whip from the pencil barrel.

I bought a Blaser R93 last week.....not sure if I'll invest in bedding or sell it and invest in a 6.5x55 barrel.

Right now theyre seated so you can barely make out the top band but see the whole "groove". Ive seated them as deep as just over the top groove. Its entirely possible Im missing the whole seating depth window. I h will admit, I did get ahead of myself and not do as thorough a job with determining seating depth. I typically have better and repeatable "raw" accuracy before I Start messing with seating depth. I guess im most frustrated with the lack of consistency. I just have no idea how two 5 shot strings, loaded to the same depth, same charge weight, roughly the same temp and wind variables..almost identical chrono numbers....go from under an inch to almost 2in. At a minimum, I would have to shoot another r5 shot string to see which was the fluke.

I have helped several local members get their rifle to shoot the mono's. Have seen seating depths vary from .030 off the lands to a guy with a 270 where the bullet was seated almost down to the beginning of the ogive ( where the full dia. of the bullet starts ) . Play with seating depths to start. If that doesn't work beading may be a necessity. Is your rifle free floated? If it is your next move can be to loosen the Bbl action & slip a thin piece of cardboard like from a cereal box between barrel & stock at the front of the forearm.. If this is to thick 3,4, or 5 pieces of paper can be used. What your looking for is 2 to 3 lbs max upward pressure. If this works then you know beading makes a difference. Another test is to shoot two THREE shot groups. Make sure you give plenty of cooling time between each shot & complete cooling down before your second group. This will tell you if your barrel is overly sensitive to heat up. Take your time & don't get in a hurry.

I suppose I could burn a few more since onwant this combo to work.

As to the barrel heating up, some of my smallest groups were fired st the end of a string of 6 or 9. The latest groups were shot in 15 degree temps...I was worried about letting the barrel cool to much

I get what you're saying, I honestly dont know if I want a rifle that cant handle 3 shots, or 5 really. The Tikkas that these replaced had no issues with similar profile barrels.

I'll start back at my original seating depth which had good and bad groups. Maybe do 3 groups out from there in .015 increments.

Scope and mounts checked out.

Barrel is floated, 4 sheets of printer paper back to the action.

Would take more force than o could have inadvertently applied to get the stock near the barrel.

Action screws i was able to get a little more turn out of. I compared it with my other finnlights and they had roughly the same amount. So I either just fixed all my rifles or over torqued them.....but at least they'll be the same.

I'll try a few more seating depths with h4350. If I can't get them to shoot with 4831sc, I'll pull the whole action and look it over. Maybe I'll just skip 4831sc and the lrx and try a more proven of rl22 and some match 140gr.....just to see if it is capable of shooting the groups I want, even if it's not with the components I want

Shot my .50, .60, .70, .80 and .90 depths today. Waited for my Redding Competition micrometer seater to show up. Sure does make quick work of multiple seating depth loads. All rounds verified with a Hornady comparator. Sadly, I don't think I found anything conclusive. This was 45.4gr. In hindsight, I probably should have gone with my 44.2 load that I thought was showing promise. My last outing, 45.4 had a decent group and I thought maybe the added velocity might help show differences when looking at seating depth alone.

Some quick notes, the .070 groups, the 2 close holes were the last 2 in the string. On the .090 group, the close holes were the first 2 of the string.

While I dont have a range in the backyard, I have one about 5 minutes away. Saw I had 4 LRX's left, rolled things back to the first outing, loaded up 4 44.2 rounds at the original seating depth of 2.975 or 2.388 using the comparator. Thats .190 off the lands.

first 3 shots are in the bottom 3, 4th shot is the loner, but not by much.

Back to the original question....open a new box and play with 44.2 a bit more or switch bullets or powder.

warpig,

You only have yourself to please. While it's not a group that gives you "internet bragging" rights, a 4-shot sub-MOA showing is plenty good enough for a medium/big game hunting load. If it were me, I'd load up any I had left with that final 44.2g load. If you need to buy another box, I'd load up the first 20 with that load and set it aside for hunting season and then maybe grab a new powder and play with the remainder of the box seeing if I could better it.

Good luck.

Problem si, according to todays groups, even the 44.2 is inconsistent. I broke open my 3rd box of LRX to try 44.2 @ 2.975 for 3 shots, 2,985 for 5 shots and 2.965 for 5 shots.....I wish the fliers were the 4th or 5th shot so I could possibly attribute them to barrel heat or something but thats not the case.

Going to hang up the Swede for a while and get to work on my 300WSM. I'll come back in a few weeks and start over with H4831SC or Varget. Possibly Accubonds as well. If my WSM prefers H4350, I may jsut come back and try the Accubonds.

I would try them at .050 off. I think you may still be seated a little deep. That is what Barnes recommends and it seems to work for me.

I did try them at .050 off, 3 shot group at 1.663. I could try .060 again as that 3 shot group came in under an inch. Think im just going to shelve this rifle for a few weeks. Its entirely possible that my expectations are unreasonable as well. I just an expected a little more, or at least equal accuracy out of the Finnlight as I got from most of my Tikkas. Maybe I'll just go back to shooting 3 shot groups for proofing as Ive done with all my other hunting rifles. Even then, this one is still inconsistent with repeating 3 shot groups.

Just for schits and giggles, did you try seating the bullets as long as possible? Max mag length or a light kiss?

I know it's contrary to popular opinion, but I've got two rifles that shoot lrx's best seated w/ a light kiss...

David

I did try 3.150 which is mag length. 3in, 3 shot group, all 3 holes were about 3in apart in a triangle.

It seems that you've exhausted the possibilities with various seating depth and 4350 but it's not getting you where you want to be..

I'd be looking at 7828 or H1000 to get those long bullets up to speed in a Swede.

I briefly had a Ruger in 6.5x55 but the majority have been M96 and M38. Slower burning powder helped me find more consistent loads in my Swedes.

Good luck with the project!

Good advice.

David

WAR- not sure what you are shooting at. if you want good groups you should try a 123 scenar or 139 scenar. I have shot 1000or more of each through my 6.5-284s. usually in the .3's. the 136 I have not shot yet.