I picked up a Ruger American Predator in 350 Legend for Ohio deer season (there is a thread in hunting rifles). It shot well with factory loads but I like to handload, and shoot a lot, so naturally wanted to load for this. Time is short before season, as are components and load data, for this new cartridge. There are few loading threads on line, none here, so I thought I post my results and hopefully get some other’s data too.

I have only been loading the Win 180 PP (only bullet I found available), Lee dies (including their collet crimp die), Win., Starline, and Hornady brass with CCI 400 primers. Hodgen’s online data was the only published loading source located and it matches the data sent with my Lee dies.

Factory loads were fired to document velocities recording from my 21 Inch barrel (I cut the threaded portion off my 22 inch barrel off and re-crowned):
-Win 180PP published 2100fps – actual 2064fps
-Hornady 170 IL published 2200fps – actual 2341fps!
-Federal 180 published 2200fps – actual 2200fps

Seems Winchester is underloading their factory stuff and the Hornady loads seems HOT. With this info I assumed ~2200fps as a safe max for the 180 PP. The Hodgen data lists Lil Gun starting 23g (2049fps) and max 25.5g (2213fps). I loaded up 24g (2257 fps), 24.5g (2288fps), and 25g (2359 fps). I only shot one round of 25g as I had the primer cratering around the firing pin and velocity was through the roof . All these loads appear to be over pressure by the velocity I was getting but there is little data out there. I dropped back to the starting load of 23g and got velocities noted in the picture below. I have never loaded a cartridge so sensitive to seating depth both in terms of accuracy and velocity as is evident by the groups. .020 difference in seating depth made a good 20 fps difference in velocity with no other change, and seating this bullet out really opened up the groups. 2.125 OAL seems to be the magic seating depth for this bullet.




A couple other random observations:
- I would love for Barnes to come out with a 140 .355 expander bullet similar to their muzzleloader slugs. At 2500 fps that would be impressive.
-Winchester components continue to SUCK. Their brass is barely usable, thick, tight primer pockets etc.
-Seating depth is significant in this cartridge for velocity & accuracy
-Don’t follow the Lee instructions for setting up their expander die or crimp die. I turned the crimp die in until it stopped turning against the shell holder THEN turned it in ½ turn in order to get a crimp. To adjust the expander, place a piece of brass in the shell holder, turn die the die until it makes contact and then adjust down as needed (~1/2 turn).
-I got a lot of groups with 2 in and 1 out. Not sure it it’s me, loads, or the flex in the fore end of the stock. The American stock is not great for shooting groups off bags, especially with a AR style magazine.
-The Starline brass is great!

I'd love to hear from other guys loading results.

I went a slightly different route than the legend. I built two different 357 Rimless at 1.79” case length using .358 bullets. One is in an Encore And the other is in a Remington 700. I’m experimenting still but am running a 180 gr Hornady SSP at 2600 FPS using 35.0 gr of AA1680 in the Encore 26” MGM barrel. Ran out of Time to finish the 700 but will be my winter project. I played with some 150 core lokts checking speeds and they ran around 2850-2870 FPS range. Have not checked the 150 for accuracy just acquiring load data. I did harvest a big doe Friday evening quartering towards me hitting her in the shoulder ripping off the top of her heart. Whole front leg was junk. She did a nose diving run for 15 yards and rolled face first dead. It piled drives her. Bullet exited. Best part was I watched it all through the scope.
Starline .223 basic brass
Rem 7 1/2 primer.
.358 180 SSP Hornady
.080 off lands.
35.0 gr AA1680 2600 FPS

2500HD,

That's pretty cool. I wish Winchester would have went .357-.358 but we got the "9mm Magnum". Hey, I like that name better better than 350 legend! Bullet selection is very limited and that 150 tipped Winchester bullet looks like a bomb and we may see a lot of what you describe happening to that doe's shoulder. We'll have a better idea after Ohio gun season.

Despite it's warts, the 9 Magnum is very fun to shoot, and they are selling like hotcakes here in Ohio.

I wouldn't want to run across some 357" ammo I thought was 9mm and shoot it in a Legend.

357 ammo of any kind won’t chamber in a 350 Legend. Hand loading .357 or .358 bullets in a 350 legend would be real bad.

djb,
I too reside in Ohio. I've used a rifled shotgun or pistol for years but got the itch for a 350 Legend. I went a different route though. I bought a 16" upper for my AR-15. The 180 grain Power Points are pretty accurate, but only 1900 fps in my rifle. At the ranges I hunt at, this should be fine. The 150 grain Deer Season XP went 2150 fps.

Ron

I reread this thread and then went back to Winchester's website. On Winchester's site it says bullet diameter. 357. I have looked at other sites and they have said .355 and .356. Has anybody measured an actual bullet from Winchester to see? There is several different answers according to where you look on the web.

I too would like "9mm magnum" also. I think this round would be awesome around the farm for varmints and wild dogs. If the bore is 9mm looks to me like some of the new monometal pistol bullets in this would be a hoot.

Yeah, should have been clearer. That's what I mean.

Bullets are .355.

Even mono 9mm pistol bullets would surely grenade at 2200+ FPS, but may be emphatic on varmints.

Hornady now makes a 165 grain FTX, and a 170 grain Spire point in .355 diameter. Both have a ballistic coefficient of .212.

Ron

I shot two deer with my Winchester XPR 350 Legend in Ohio this year- a big doe and an 8 point. I used factory Winchester Deer season XP 150 gr rounds, which performed well. I was getting 1.1" 3 shot 100 yard groups with this load, but being an ex-high power rifle shooter, that's not good enough. I bought lee dies and Starline brass but I'm waiting for better bullets to hit the market than what is currently available. I may try the Hornady 165 FTX, if I can find some.

So, factory ammo bullet diameter is .355"?

From what I information I’ve found.355.

I gave in and bought a 350 Legend AR15 upper the other day. My primary interest for this one is subsonic loads (with a suppressor), but I'll also be experimenting with full power loads as well. I will be investigating some of the things we're told we "can't" do on this one - using .357" and even .358" bullets, forming brass from 5.56, etc.

It's good to hear confirmation in the OP that the Winchester brass sucks; I had a suspicion of that. Fortunately I found Starline brass for a pretty similar price.

That could cause a problem.



This could prove problematic.

I have been swaging speer 200 grain 358 round noses down to 355 for loading in my 9x56 mannlicher shoenauer but am thinking about trying these 180 grain legend bullets. Has anyone tried this yet?

Yours apparently has different chamber dimensions than mine. Rounds loaded with .357" or .358" bullets will fit the chamber with a couple thousandths to spare; the issue is the small throat diameter.

Loading and firing .357" bullets in a .355" bore is not a big deal; just start low and work up. Max loads are a little below the same for .355" bullets, but less difference than some would expect.

On the 5.56 brass question - you can expand the necks out to 35 cal as has been done long before the Legend, and when fired in the 350 Legend they expand to fit the chamber just in front of the case web, looking about the same as fired brass from some of the looser hunting rifle chambers I've used. However, after trimming the brass to square up the case necks, the brass ends up about .050" too short for the Legend chamber - no go, can't use it that way.

At $18 a box for factory Winchester or Federal ammo is it really worth reloading? Kind of like reloading a 30-30

Sorry Yondering. Couple guys from my club tried reloading the .358 bullets and they stuck in the throat. Wouldn’t load. 2 of them casted the chamber and they said needed.355’s. .357 wouldn’t fit. I don’t have one. Was in the middle of waiting for my 357 Rimless barrels when they announced.

do a JES rebore to 358.

My first legend was the Savage stainless 110 bolt action. It was thoroughly unimpressive and defective and sucked. The bolt wouldn’t open after firing factory ammo without seriously beating on it. I got the Ruger AR in return and I’m very happy with it. The 150 deer season XPs shot best for factory but unfortunately don’t always feed properly. Yes, Winchester brass seriously sucks and I threw it all away. Hornady is better but Starline is the very best, by far. My gun shoots the Winchester 147 FMJs pretty well. 4227 powder has been more accurate for me than H110 or Lil’ Gun for all factory bullets. I pulled a bunch of them early on. I hope more powder options become available. I got a box of Hornady FTX 165s but haven’t done anything with them yet. Lee dies are just okay. The bugger about the seater is that is won’t go from the 150s to the 180s. Lee will modify the die but that’s a very poor design in my book. Lyman has a MSR small base set I’m going to get, they look sweet and are affordable. Thanks for sharing your experiences so far!

Yes, the spec is for .355" throats, but the chamber is big enough to load .358", at least with the Winchester and Starline brass I have. (and yeah, the factory Winchester brass sucks)

IMO it was stupid to design a cartridge for bullets that didn't exist, especially when the entire point of the round was for straight wall states that specified .357" or larger. That was bureaucratic arrogance on Winchester's part, and the whole thing is a comedy of errors designed by a committee. They did everything wrong they possibly could have with the cartridge design. This coming from a guy who likes 35 cal rifles.

I've loaded 158gr .357 bullets and shot them on a BCA upper with no issues whatsoever. I have also seen other people do it on youtube.

Barnes does make the Tac-XP bullet in 125 grains for the 357 Sig. I have a friend that loaded these in his 350 with great accuracy success.
The petals will no doubt blow off, but the base is solid copper, so it would work well on deer

I have had this Ruger Bolt in 350 for just over a year now.

Mine will chamber a .357, But with resistance. I have t shot
Any. But I do size down to .356 and shoot them!! Both cast and jacketed.

I wont shoot factory ammo cause Winchesters has there collective heads up there $&@@!! But I buy FMJ, Pull the bullets weigh and save the powder. Then trim cases to 1.700 and recharge cases with a few tenths less powder then average I calculated from emptying. Then I resize Hornady 140 FTX and load. This load shoots 1/2 MOA @ 2300 + FPS. I HAVE TESTED IT IN WET PAPERS. It holds well
To 1900 fps. Past 2000 and it sheds weight pretty fast. MIGHT BE OK on broadside lungs. But Im keeping mine for coyotes or steel.
I got some 165 FTX last fall just prior to season quickly found acceptable accuracy W/286 @ 2200 fps and went hunting. Bambi didnt cooperate when I carried it.

This spring I have been working up Loads Using a resized Remington 150 CorLokt. Im well into upper 2400's with no pressure signs and safe loads according to QL. (And my own knowledge reading case head expansion)

I want to find a good cast bullet hunting load.

I have a awesome sub load in my Accurate 36-270c cast bullet and Herco powder. Its marginally Stabulized at 1000 but kick in the bottom to 1180fps and its not booming but very accuracy stabile. (No tails in paper to 100) At this vel thats 1K muzzle energy and aughta thump hogs up close!!

Like most knowledgeable Reloading folk. I was upset with Winchester. They screwed the pooch and IMHO because the jelly heads drank there own koolaide at how great the 9mm is (has become) Being built up by every parroting reporter. Not so many years ago it was SUB POWERFUL!! ANYHOW.. not going there here. . I got to thinking I was SO EXCITED I would have a 357 Maxi equlivent forearm I didnt wanna let it go and Got to thinking. Im a bullet caster!! I dont really care what the "experts" made that bore. I can cast a bullet taylored to ANYTHING! So I ordered a Rifle.

I woulda tried the Winchester but was gonna be months and months so I grabbed the excellent Ruger American (excellent for $$ spent)

Having a TON OF FUN with subs!!

CW

A couple thousands of an inch isn't going to make a whole lot of difference. You guys who think it does should try it first. I think you'll find variations in various guns of a few thousandths of an inch in the chamber throats and barrels of the 350 Legend.

HnS,
It absolutely CAN BE a big deal when you have decades of experience with a bullet and its just a "couple thousands" too bug to use. Made worse when there was no good reason to go .355 but for IGNORANCE! As stated many of these guns wont chamber .357 bullets. STATE LAWS in many states SPECIFICALLY stated 357/358 in order to EXCLUDE 9MM!! Why Winchester chose to challenge. (Typical Pompous youthful ignorance.). ANYHOW... water under the bridge now..

Anyone try the Lyman 358430 Bullet??

Its a ol school bulbous RN of 195g. Made for the 38 s&w police load. Might be a dandy in the legend. I picked one up and am strongly considering have it HP'ed!

CW

Having just purchased 2 Savage Axis rifles for my granddaughters (and a Ruger Ranch for myself) in 350 Legend, I stumbled upon this forum. Looks like some good info in the thread.
Glad I caught all the info on which dies to avoid as I set up to load for these guns.
I would like to relay an experience from a fellow member at my gun club. He purchased a Rifle in 350 Legend from Winchester. The best the gun will shot is about 5 inch groups at 100 yd with factory ammo.
He then tried loading several 9mm pistol bullets. Still no improvement. He then tried .357 caliber bullets. Those rounds would not fit in the chamber.
He sent the gun back to Winchester. Winchester returned the gun with a note stating that the gun was "within spec".
He then took it to a gunsmith to check it out as far as scope mounting, scope integrity etc. The gunsmith then decided to slug the barrel. He discovered that the groove diameter on the rifle was .357.
At this point, it may be good news for this particular gentleman as he could have the gunsmith get a reamer for the 350 AR round and be able to use 357 cal bullets.
Kinda sucks that you spend all that money for a gun that then you have to go to a gunsmith just to get it shoot as originally designed.
As far as shooting a 358 diameter bullet, I'm going to try a few. Just have to start a bit lower on the powder charge.
Back when the 357 Maximum came out, I used a load for silhouette competition with a 200 gr RN in .358 diameter out of a TC Contender with excellent accuracy for 200 M Rams.
I'll post results when I get this wrung out at the range

I too am experimenting with the 350 legend. So far I am working up loads with Win296, H110 and VV110. First loads are using the Hornady FTX 140 grain .356 bullet and then 147 grain XTP .355.
There is a lot of back and forth on here about bullet diamiter and what is safe and I'm going to chime in:
My barrel is a Faxon Gunner 16" for an AR. Straight from Faxon they tell me:
Hi Will,

Thank you for taking the time to contact us! Our .350 Legend barrels use .346" bore and .355" groove. With that in mind, you can safely use bullets from .349" diameter up to .357" diameter.

Hornady ftx bullets say 38 cal but measure exactly .356.
Hornady XTP bullets measure .355 of course. Side note: I dont expect the XTPs to hold together very well as they are designed for 1,100 ish fps max.

I would speculate .357 and up would pose pressure problems among other things and its a shame Winchester did not go the .357/.358 route.
There are videos of the FTX terminal performance on the internet and its pretty impressive. With a higher BC than typical pistol bullets and velocities nearing 2500 fps I suspect this will be the bullet of choice in my AR. The longer heavier offerings seated to fit in the mag are going to intrude into the case capacity too far.

I am starting my loads on the very lower end on powder charges.

Has anyone noticed even with starting loads the bullet typically compresses the powder when loaded to the cannelure?

When I get it to the range I will post load, fps, and accuracy data.

I have loaded a few batches of the 350 legend. They are fired from an AR with 16" Faxon barrel and CMMG 10 rd mags. Shot off bench with 14 power Nikon Monarch Scope. Temp was 61 deg and zero wind. My CRONO is malfunctioning so I don't have accurate velocity data.
All of my loads have a light to moderate crimp using a Lee collet crimp die. I suggest you not use a taper or roll crimp. This because the round headspaces off the case mouth and I've seen videos of folks having issues with the case entering the camber and its then too tight upon discharge thus causing pressure problems. Those videos were AR15 and Ruger ranch semi-autos.

Here are my loads:
140 Grain HDY FTX measuring .356 dia, seated to 2.015" COL AVG, 26.2 gr VV N110, Accuracy is .90" @ 100. No pressure signs.
140 Grain HDY FTX measuring .356 dia, seated to 2.015" COL. avg, 27.2 GR wIN 296. Accuracy is .1.45" @ 100. No pressure signs. Note: The bullet compresses the powder charge when seating to near the cannelure.
147 Grain HDY XTP measuring .355" seated to 2.00" COL. 26.3 gr H110. Accuracy 1.25" @ 100. No pressure signs. I did have some feeding problems. The HP hangs up at times on the feed ramp. I ejected some after loading and its not pushing the bullet into the case at all.
180 Grain Speer hot core bullet, .358. NOTE: These were lubed with Lyman spray lube and pressed through a Lee bullet sizing die. They consistently came out at .3558. Loaded to 2.180" COL and 23.4 H110. Accuracy was the just ok at 1.7".
125 Grain Barnes HP copper alloy TAC, 355" seated to 2.015" COL consistently. 25.5 grains H110. Accuracy was very good at .0.9" although I did have another group over 2" with a flier right. Probably me!

Factory ammo shot was Hornady American Whitetail 170 grain SP. Accuracy was just over 1.5 moa, 1.65"

Winchester cases and .356 bullets cause a visible bulge when seating the bullet. No issues chambering though.
Starline brass exhibits less bulge but are thinner walled and explains itself.
.355" seated pistol bullets cause a similar bulge but not as pronounced.
Factory Hornady American whitetail has a similar bulge from the factory.
Flat base bullets and straight wall cases....ughh. Even will a moderate bell of the case mouth this happens. No issues with seating or crushed cases though. I use Hornady new dimension seating dies with the floating alignment sleeve.

When i have more data and get a new CRNO I will post it.

Reporting on my experience shooting and reloading with the 350 Legend. The rifle is a bolt action setup I had put together.

As for handloads, I have only experimented with LiL'Gun and Hornady 170 SP bullets. I have been reloading with a Redding Die Set. I have not crimped any loads. I have found the Hodgdon's load data, with regard to LiL'Gun and 170s, to be HOT. Velocities were as follows: (barrel is 23")

LIL'GUN 24.5 GR - 2375 fps
LIL'GUN 25 GR- 2435 fps
LIL'GUN 26 GR- Sticky Bolt and Ejector Mark on case head. (I forgot to arm my LabRadar and did not get the velocity.)

So, I dropped my powder charge:

LIL'GUN 24 GR- 2345 fps
LIL'GUN 23 GR- 2280 fps

I have found the 24 gr load to be more accurate. I may still be a little on the hot side (based on velocity) with 24 gr of LIL'GUN but brass seems to be holding up, so I'm going to work with the 24 gr charge for now.

This is my first time reloading a straight wall cartridge of any type. When I first got going with it, I thought I would be able to print sub MOA groups with consistancy but that has not happen yet. I still have more bullets / powder / primer combos to try, but I'm starting to feel that this chambering is a 1.5 MOA cartridge. I have been reloading with Winchester brass because it's the only brass I can get my hands on. I would like to try some Starline brass when it becomes available and possibly tighten up my groups. But with all that being said, there has been no problem hitting 6" steel at 200 yards and it seems to hit the gong with authority. Anyway, more load development and testing in the future.

As a side note, my son and I have hunted with the 350 Legend the last two hunting seasons using factory loads (Winchester 150 and 180 loads). We have killed 14 deer from 50 to 130 yards. The 350 has preformed great. I really can't understand all the complaints about the cartridge. It's a dream to shoot and it puts deer down. It may not be capable of the accuracy of modern bottle neck rifle cartridges, but it seems to serve it's purpose out to 200 yards. Which, I believe, was it's intended purpose.

What yall don't understand is that the "Legend" was a simple engineering project dreamed up by marketing and constrained by the bean counters. One of the engineers on this project was a recent mechanical engineering graduate who didn't own a firearm and does "cosplay" for entertainment. She said they were working with the parameters they was given: Straight wall case less than 1.8" long. Must work in an AR platform. Must use the most cost effective bullets ie. 9mm. The presses used to make 9mm bullets are much faster and more efficient than the rifle bullet presses.

Handload-ability was not given the slightest consideration.

The sad thing is Winchester already had a design far more suitable than the .223 case to work with, the 9x23mm Win. In the early 1990's Winchester spent a lot of time and money developing the 9x23mm case, all they had to do was stretch it into the 9x45mm. The slightly larger diameter case would have had a bit more capacity and allowed for a little more taper in the "straight" wall cases. This would have alleviated much of the angst during the convoluted development process, which ultimately lead to the rebated-case-head design with crimped military primer. 9mm bolts are no issue for the AR platform. Standard AR magazines would require minor tweaking, but they had to do that anyway for the "Legend". 9mm bolt faces for bolt actions would have been a simple modification.