Ordering lots of reloading stuff currently, new 6.5 Creed on the way,

I really like the RCBS Competition dies, (grey box) with side loading port,

Found the only one available at Natchez, (grabbed it) but many available with the neck bushing die,

So, who's using neck bushing dies, and why, and how?

Disclaimer, I'm totally ignorant on the neck/bushing topic, If I ask a dumb question, No laughter allowed.....................

I like the Lee collet dies.

Me too!

How and why?

RCBS Competition dies were part of the original question..............

I am simple, they are simple and I am happy with the results.

Lee Collets work so well I can't imagine spending the money on a bushing die.

You guys are assuming I know what a 'collet' die is, I don't.

Headed to YouTube..

3 shots, LEE collet dies.

338 WM

they work....

Lee universal decapping die, Redding body die, Lee Neck collet die, done.

I use full length bushing dies.

Full length bushing dies also but I do use a separate decapping die.

Bushing dies squeeze the case neck to a uniform outside diameter. The thickness of the brass determines the inside diameter. Since brass thickness varies among different manufacturers any particular diameter bushing can produce different inside diameters. The bushing die manufacturers recommend getting a specific diameter bushing to match your brass.

The Lee collet dies squeeze the neck around a mandrel or spindle to a uniform inside diameter, regardless of outside neck diameter. The mandrel Lee supplies usually gives a light bullet pull but you can spin it in a drill with some sandpaper to reduce the diameter for a stronger pull, or just buy undersize mandrels from Lee which are pretty cheap.

If you use a bushing die to reduce neck diameter too much, IME "too much" starts around .003-.004", it can produce crooked necks.

The Lee collet die produces a straight neck every time. I sort my brass by neck concentricity, such that the good brass doesn't vary in thickness by more than .001" or maybe .0015". Those cases after sizing in a collet die will show total runout of .001 to .0015", i.e. the only thing being measured is the neck thickness variation. The collet die produced .000" of additional runout.

Bushig dies are expensive, collet dies are cheap.

They are a win, win, win situation.

Ken,

Bushing dies are most commonly used when loading for custom rifles with tight necks.
Necks are turned and the bushing helps regulate neck tension in the custom chamber neck.

So unless you plan to take it to this degree, typically there's not material gain over a simpler solution such as a Forster neck die, or as previously mentioned the Lee Collet die.

Here's a 10 minute primer for you on the Lee Collet die.

Now this, is an answer to a question.

Again, thanks.

You guys have my attention,

This collet die is the sizing die, sizes necks only?

And also deprimes?

I see, "No lube required", None at all, not even inside the necks?

It is still good to lube the die and the necks at least for the first run. You can't go wrong with the collet die. The bushing die may require neck turning to reap the full benefits, this is seldom worthwhile except on custom varmint and target rifles.

In addition to the collet die you may want a body/shoulder bump die to keep the cases from expanding or sizing back when they do. These just bump the shoulder back .001-3" depending how you set them up. They hold the case so it is aligned and doesn't expand with the setback. You can do this with a FL sizing die it just works the brass a little more.

Look up the tutorials on polishing the collet die it makes them operate much better with less or no marks on the case.

Yes the collet die is a type of neck sizing die. De-primes too. See above, clean and lube the first time you use it then it only occasionally needs it only if it gets dirty.

You can use it to deprime if you are only neck sizing brass for a bolt action. No need to lube brass as there is no press fit involved, the collet doesn't contact the brass until you depress the press handle, and then only squeezes the neck.
I deprime before cleaning my brass, then body size only (no neck sizing) with a Redding body die, then I neck size with the Lee collet die. No expander ball involved to throw the neck concentricity out.
Watch the video, all you need to lube on the collet die is the compression cone.

Mathman had a post laying out the proper way to set up the Lee Collet die, maybe someone can find it and post for you.

So do I. I also anneal.

Don’t know if it matters/helps, but I brush the inside of the necks before resizing the necks and depriming on the Lee.

Excellent idea.

Ok, The Collet die only sizes the outside dimension of the neck, or is there the traditional expander/sizing button on the decapping stem. Is lube required here?

I have 300 new pieces of brass here, many need to have the necks cleaned up before bullet seating,(Dented in and so forth) ,Can the Collet die do this?

I can reload with 2 dies, the Collet and then a seating die?

If no die is used to bump the shoulder back, crush fit?

The posts so far have basically covered it.

But I use both Lee Collet and Redding bushing dies. The choice of which to use depends on whether you're after the absolute finest accuracy (which generally involves sorting or turning case-necks), and other anal-retentive techniques) or "very good" accuracy with basic brass.

If you're a basic handloader, the Lee dies work great. If you're anal-retentive (or highly competive, whether with yourself or others), then bushing dies work a little better. But only if you can shoot well enough to tell the difference.

So it does size the ID.
Gotcha.

I am, by honest definition, a basic hand-loader.

The collet die has a mandrel/stem down the center with a de-capping pin at the base. The collet squeezes the neck around the mandrel sizing and centering the neck opening. If the neck of your brass is not concentric (the same thickness all around) before it is sized, then the outside of the neck will not be concentric after it is sized. Did you watch the video?
No lube is required on the brass.
The collet die and seater will get you by until you need to bump the shoulder back, that's what the body die is for.
This isn't rocket science, Just buy the collet die and go for it.

Mule deer beat me to it.

ok, one more question, can i use my RCBS shell holder, 6.5 Creed, with the Lee collet or do I need to order the Lee shell holder?

The RCBS shell holder will work fine.

A poster above mentioned Mathman’s directions for setting up a Lee collet die. They are excellent. With full credit to Mathman, here they are —


Mathman directions for Lee Collet die:


The first thing I recommend is to ignore the instructions supplied with the die.

The second thing I recommend is to ignore whether or not the press you're using cams over at the top of its stroke.

The die squeezes the neck onto a mandrel, so for a given neck thickness there is a finite limit to how much sizing you can achieve. This die will need adjustment to suit different thicknesses of brass.

Raise the press ram to the top of its stroke. Thread the die into the press until the bottom of the sizing collet (not the die body) just touches the shell holder. Measure the neck OD of a piece of brass.

Run the brass through the die using a full press stroke. It should take no effort since if you're set up as described the die has done no sizing. Turn the die into the press about 1/4 turn. Run the brass in again. You probably won't feel much sizing going on, but give the neck a measurement just to see. If it's still nothing, screw the die in another 1/4th and try again. You'll may start feeling a bit going on as you work the press handle, and if so you'll be able to measure a little sizing taking place.

Rinse and repeat using 1/16th turn in increments for the die. You'll feel increases in the force required for the sizing stroke. Since you're measuring the neck after each pass you'll eventually find two increments where the neck didn't get any smaller. NOW STOP TURNING THE DIE INTO THE PRESS. Remember you're squeezing the brass against a solid steel mandrel which isn't going to give, so even if the press stroke didn't feel like it took very much force the neck is as small as it's going to get.

There's a learning curve to the die, but it isn't hard.

I like to run cases through the die twice, spinning the case about 1/3 turn (rather than the 1/2 turn in the instructions) between passes. This means the parts of the neck that were under the splits in the collet fingers on the first pass will get hit on the second.

Redding Body Die, like this:

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018046992

In my experience, using REDDING bushing die (either the neck only, or the full length die), the runout is minimized if you get rid of the expander button. I use a Forster press and just use the REDDING rings on the dies. Forster rings might make a difference, I don’t know, but I know that pulling the expander button back through the brass seems to always pull the neck crooked to some degree. if you get a bushing die, just get a button that holds the deprimer pin but doesn’t expand the neck.
I would highly recommend the lee collet die. It is just soooo easy and makes very straight brass.

Wow, that really makes me want to sell all of my el cheapo RCBS plain jane fl sizing dies that you can buy at just about any store. Good job on getting that 338wm to shoot.


Plain jane fu cking dies that produce minimal run-out (sub .003" TIR). It's all in how you adjust your dies. No need to use all that other stuff. It just complicates an otherwise very easy process. KISS....

You guessed it. Plain jane RCBS FL die set....
This chidt is "never not funny"...as someone else used to say..

Since we are talking 6.5 creed, I use the same dies in the little green box. I think they cost me $30.00, but I'm able to hit my 2" steel target at 400 yards very consistently.

No need to neck size that cartridge either...



Heres one of my new rifles I shot with 2 of my other 6.5 creedmoor rifles' loads. I have 6 creedmoor rifles and all ammo I load works in every one of them. Here's an accuracy test I did with ammo that I know my other rifles like:

You can't do that if you neck size. Then you limit yourself to segregating ammo and only using it in one particular rifle. That's making chidt hectic, not keeping it simple. Hint...

Could I use a standard RCBS sizing/decapping die with the decapping stem and expander ball removed?

I only ask has those dies are being shipped here, probably arriving today.

A lot of out of the box FL dies, RCBS included, size the neck diameter down considerably more than necessary. This results in the brass being worked more than necessary, no matter how straight it is sized.

A Lee collet die in 6.5 Creedmore can ship today from Midway for $23.99 plus shipping. Very inexpensive for what you get and what it does. No lubing, less working of case necks, less trimming, straighter necks.

I used bushing dies for years. I try not to run an expander button to limit how much I work the brass to extend brass life. Bushings allowed me to fine tune neck tension.

I've since started moving away from them. Mine all left a small area of the neck unsized right up against the shoulder. It didn't seem to hurt anything, but I didn't like it. I'm now using Forster sizing dies. For an amazingly nominal fee (like $15) they will hone the neck to whatever dimension you specify. That does require that you be able to figure out what diameter you want, and that's not always simple.

I'm a nut about accuracy, and a real nut about brass life since my two main rifles require fire forming...and I hate fire forming. For general reloading (non-competition) neither bushing dies nor honed dies are necessary.

No, you don't want to reduce the neck in the full length sizing die, that's what the collet die is for.

When neck sizing, typically you only need to use the body die after every 4th or 5th firing with bolt guns.

Appreciate the help guys, This thread went in a wayyyy different direction than first stated, but I asked for advice and it all seems to make sense.

So, in conclusion, lots'a cool packages headed this way,

Lee Collet die will be used for neck sizing,

Redding body die will used for shoulder bumps when needed, But how will I know when? Bolt closing stiffly or what?

Any special steps to set up of a Redding body die? Same has any other full length sizing die? Then also I can use the same RCBS shellholder with the Redding die? I'd sure think so......

Thanks.

Just curious..
As a tinkerer...
Could you not fit/tool an "aluminum spacer" from the hardware store bin drawers to fit over your de capping stem at the right spot and function as a mandrel?

After all aluminum is stiffer than steel... compatibility vs. Brass I am unsure of...