So I admit, I overthink things. I have been trying to figure out what groundhog gun to get. I am in central Pa, so long shots (400+) are definately an option. I want quiet, fast enough to shoot at least 350 yards, but low enough recoil to spot my shots. A silencer may be an option. I am thinking suppressed 204 ruger, maybe 17 hornet,... I also considered a 20 vartarg, but seems like limited budget options. I can prob swing 800 right now without the glass. So seems like if I want a silencer it leaves me with very little for the rifle. I want something that won't hurt your ears if you take a quick shot without taking time to put in your earplugs. I know, bad idea but sometimes you don't have time. I wish the 17 fireballs were not so expensive, or wish there was an easy and economical way to build one...
Any direction would be appreciated!
I'm not sure the 17 Hornet will have enough ass at 350 yards + to do what you need it to do. The 204 Ruger is a good option and will work at those distances. Don't hold up your shooting because you don't have it suppressed. Wait until you have everything else bought and it works for you before getting your can.
Yeah, I noticed that pharm. Do you have any experience with the 204 Ruger? How does it do in the wind at extended ranges? Around here, you might as well just throw your gun in the river, if you think a .20 cal bullet is going to cut it at 400+ yards in the wind, which is an every day event in the Gorge.. At minimum, I'd be using a .223 and yes, it would be a Tikka varminter.. Next question...
A 39 grain Blitzking has just as high or higher B.C. compared to a lot of the .224 50 or 55 grain bullets.
Never been doggin my self but a half dozen or so buds that go switched to the 204 as their main cartridge over their 223 and 223 AI. They still use a plethora of other cartridges but the 204 with the Sierra is their go to.
The 40 grain VMAX out of a 204 has no more drift than a 50 grain VMAX out of a 223, given the same cross wind.
Jevyod: You touched on it already!
The answer to your query is - 204 Ruger!
Low recoil, flat trajectory, great accuracy, long barrel life, ability to spot your own shots, - I could go on and on.
But take it from someone who has NEVER shot a "ground hog" but HAS shot a rail road car full of Rock Chucks over the last 55 years of Hunting them - for all around "chuck shooting" the 204 Ruger is just about impossible to best!
Good luck with whichever you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy
Yeah, I noticed that pharm. Do you have any experience with the 204 Ruger? How does it do in the wind at extended ranges? Around here, you might as well just throw your gun in the river, if you think a .20 cal bullet is going to cut it at 400+ yards in the wind, which is an every day event in the Gorge.. At minimum, I'd be using a .223 and yes, it would be a Tikka varminter.. Next question...
A 20 cal 40 gr V-max has a .275 BC. A 53gr V-max has a .290 BC. Can you push that 53gr bullet anywhere near 3750 fps in your Tikka varminter? No? Hmm. Because the 204 will push that 40gr bullet easily to 3750. Which would do better in the wind at 400 yds? Hmmm. To match the 204's ballistic profile, you have to step up to a full-power 22-250. Hmmmm.
Wrong answer.
Used .22-250 and Swift extensively in NYS. Both with bullets having BC in the .23-.27 range. No problem in any conditions out to 300. We did not consider body shots "fair" if < 300 yds. Beyond that body was fair, and we went all the way to low 400s. We learned must have accuracy, tho. Combination of mediocre accuracy (> 3/4 MOA) and low BC turns it into a game of luck.
I see no reason why a .204 would not work, so long as it was a serious shooter, choice of bullet opens explosively at distance, and it had commensurate optics.
I am partial to the 223 Rem., I have had three 204's and never found that it did anything special over the 223.
I have never shot a groundhog but I have sent a lot of their Western cousins rockchucks to the big pasture in the sky. using the 223 with 40 gr Nosler ballistic tips.
The 204 with 40 gr bullets @ 3750 fps and the 223 @ 3750 fps will have the same recoil since they both use virtually the same amount of powder to achieve 3750 fps, any difference in recoil between the two is a figment of imagination.Either cartridge with 40 gr bullets will allow you to see hits from 100 yds and out, if you aren't seeing hits using either of these then your gun handling technique needs work.
204 -
Using a one inch high zero @ 200 yards the 204 with 40 gr bullets will be +0.3 inch @ 200 yds, minus 4.7 @ 300 yds, minus 15.3 @ 400 yds.
204 with 40 gr bullets 10 mph wind drift @ 100 yds 1.0 inch, 200 yds will be 4.2 inches, @ 300 yds 10.1 inches, 400 yds will be19.3 inches.
Energy @ 100 yds - 965.7 ft bs, 200 yds 734.2 ft lbs, 300 yds 550.9 ft lbs, 400 yds 405.6 ft lbs.
223 -
Using a one inch high zero @ 200 yds the 223 with 40 gr bullets will be + 0.2 inch, minus 5.0 inch @ 300 yds, minus 16.3 inch @ 400 yds.
223 with 40 gr bullets 10 mph crosswind @ 100 yds will be 1.1 inch drift, @ 200 yds 4.6 inch drift, @ 300 yds 11.1 inch drift, @ 400yds 21.4 inch drift.
Energy@ 100 yds - 945.1 ft lbs, 200 yds 701.6 ft lbs, 300 yds 512,4 ft lbs, 400 yds 365.6 ft lbs
As you can see their is not enough difference to sneeze at between them as far as drop, drift and energy.
The 223 has a wider variety of bullets, a wider selection and more availability of brass but both cartridges will do the job, the 204 will have less barrel life if that is a concern since you are burning the same amount of powder through a smaller hole, although I doubt that will be a factor in shooting groundhogs unlilke where it comes into play when doing high volume shooting like PD's and ground squirrels.
Find a rifle that suits you in either chambering and go forth and slay critters.
drover
^^^ you beat me to it 6mmBR!
Sorry that was me! Was not getting many views here so thought I would move it to where there is more traffic!
Just get a good gun with a threaded barrel and worry about the suppressor at a later date, if the noise is really an issue. You will have a 10-12 month wait for the permit anyhow.
22 or 24" barrel, and sound level won't be an issue for field use
I've killed my g'hogs all with a .223 and using a 50-69gr bullet. Most shots were under 100 yards. If wanting something flat and little recoil, you might try a .22-250 or maybe a 22 creedmoor for the longer shots. However, for economy, recoil and low(er) muzzle blast, I use a .223. None have ran after they were shot and dropped right there.The 50 gr slugs were 50 gr Sierra Blitzkings while the 69 gr was a Sierra Matchking.
None of the rifles reaching out to 400 yards are gonna be very quiet. That's just how it is. Suppressors might help some, but to get out that far, it's gonna be noisy. Period.
Looks like you're budgeted for factory, and that means a 204.
The right stock and rifle in a 204 allows you to watch the bullet, that is really a joy. But the 204 is pretty hot and warms up quickly, again, not much of an issue on whistle pigs.
I have worked up loads on a number of "other people's" 204 Rugers (I'm happy with my plain old 223, and 22 BR) and given what I've learned, I'm going with a 204 Tactical when it comes time for a 20. Also, I really ended up liking the 39 Blitz King. Should fill the niche between the 223 and the BR pretty nicely.
Get a .223, ammo and loading components are cheap.
I spent 15 years chasing groundhogs in South Central PA and did 90% of it with a .223 and never felt undergunned. Arm yourself with good optics and rangefinder, and learn to dope the wind and a .223 will serve you well.
If I were to get back in that game I would unlimber the current .223, a Browning Low Wall, and have at it. Or the .22 K-Hornet M54 Winchester if I didn't feel like walking as far. Starting from scratch I would build another .219 Donaldson Wasp on a High Wall and skate through my Golden Years with a big grin on my face.
While I use a lot of 223 varmint hunting/shooting....
but since its not a high volume like out west here.... I'd tend to grab a 22.250 or 243 with varmint bullets...
a good scope will let either be pretty accurate out to 500 yds or beyond, depending on the shooter...
Shooting rock chucks over in Klamath County, either of the above 22/.250 or 243 pretty much capable at 450 to 500 yds..
6 BR.. little more specialized...but a 22..250 is hard to beat....
I do my woodchuck hunting with a .22 mag and sneak up on them. Much fun and great spot & stalk practice!
Better yet, try doing it with an open-sighted single-six.
When I lived in Tennessee we ate all the Woodchucks we shot and I mean all of them! I used a 223 and 55 grain bullets mostly Hornady. This was before rangefinders were available not counting the huge military artillery units so we tried to make head shots. Usually hillside to hillside. What was good about the 55 gr. Hornady the further out you shot the less it expanded so you could break down and go for a body shot if it was windy in the holler. Worked out really well but I don't think I ever shot at one past 300 yards. That said if I were to build a Woodchuck gun today it would be a 22-250 with a 1-8 twist.
If you’re in an area where you can make 400 yard shots, I’d skip the suppressor and spend the $ on the rifle; even something like a Ruger American Predator with a threaded barrel plus a can and fees would run well over your stated budget.
A CZ 527 Varmint (24” hb, dbm and single-set trigger) in either .204 or .223 should be well under 700 bucks. I have a .204 (discontinued) Kevlar stock model and can highly recommend those CZs. You’d have to stick with the excellent 39 grain Sierra Blitzkings, as that’s the heaviest bullet the slow 1:12”-twist barrel will stabilize (a common issue with almost all factory .204s), and the report - to my ears - is a tad louder than a .223. On the other hand, the .22 cal. high-bc 53 V-Max is a dandy round in any .223 I’ve shot, and it comes in loaded Hornady ammo, in case you don’t happen to reload.
Oh, if you’re serious about a .17 Fireball, and live in Central PA: Shaw Barrels and Custom Guns (Bridgeport?) could probably put something together for maybe $200 or so over budget.
Might also reconsider ever taking a shot without hearing protection. Good luck in your search!
Thanks for all the recommendations! I talked to some local groundhog hunters, and they really like the 17 hornet. The local gunship owner said that everybody that he knows that tried one really liked it. So I went with the hornet. After shooting a groundhog at 175 yards and seeing thw damage, I think I will be happy with it!
243 with 55 gr ballistic tips. Bullets move at 4,000 FPS and has a high ballistic coefficient. Heavy rifle and bipod so you can see impacts.