is the brass from Norma 223 match ammunition that same quality as brass sold for reloading

It seems to be very consistent yes, but it's not the same production line of brass. I've both the 'reloading' brass and the match ammo with staked in primers. The ammo brass I have is heavier than the stuff sold for reloading. I'm guessing that it's mil-spec brass so it can't be used interchangeably. It does shoot though. Here's a sample from a gasser that I built and was sighting in at 100 yards:

when you say staked in do you mean it looked like they used a chisel to make 3 cuts in the primer pockets? this brass I have just looks like a standard military crimp, I got a 5 gallon bucket of this brass but if it's no better than Lake city then I'll just sell it

Here’s what mine looks like:



Empties weigh 104 +/- 0.5 grain including spent primer. TAC 223 ammo.

Drop me a PM if you decide you want to sell that bucket.

the brass I have has a different head stamp. it has Norma 5.56x45. PM me your cell number I'll send you a picture. just got done removing the crimp on the primer pockets and they did have the same crimp as yours in the pucture. there crimp was like you would see on lake city brass

Why does everybody always miss the dime???

You know, the usual answer. "Well, I didn't want to hit exactly where I'm aiming because then my aiming point will disappear"...That sort of thing. I mean horse schidt..


What I'm wondering is why they stake the primers in like that...

It's the glare from the dime that causes it.

Suppose I'm testing loads for a 30 cal rifle topped with a 16x scope with a fine reticle using a 1/4" dot target. Will the aiming point not degrade as 1/3" holes start falling on and around it?

Yes mathman. The aiming point will degrade. It does make sense, but usually when guys give this excuse they are 6" to the left and 3" high sort of thing. It is nice to keep your aiming point in tact, for sure... I've screwed myself before and the group has opened up because of this degradation....



I like aiming for the small 1/4" diamond on the orange, not just the orang dot. Now, I screwed up the other day when I dialed in my scope with a new barrel on one of my AR's. I shot a nice 10 shot group to the left edge of the orange dot to maintain the aiming point, then when shooting at 400, I was off 1/2 moa. Just something to be aware of:



Now where's that shot going to be if you are 6" to the left and 3" high at 100 yards?

Yeah, I don't test them "way over there" either.

Geez the dime is there to cover the flyers.

Idaho....and in the dirt....

LOL. Vadered

I like the “Official” benchrest targets with the open squares and also an open bullseye with rings. Since my hunting rifles are generally sighted a bit high, the aiming point stays pristine. I find the squares work best for my eyes, easy to center on.

When experimenting during the search for "best load", I don't give a rat's patoot where the groups fall. After final selection of the best load recipe then I'll finagle the sights/scope to the POI I want.

Regarding Norma cartridges with staked primers, was/is that stuff made for military contracts or simply as a sop to AR-15 usage? Has Norma ever supplied domestic or NATO military needs? Dunno, never thought about it.

They are kind of weird. I was wondering the same thing. I'm also wondering if the staked in primers are hard to pop out of the case? The staking looks like it would be easier to deal with than a full crimp. Interesting approach by Norma.

Nothing unusual about those crimps, although I think point-crimping like that tends to be more Euro than American practice. But they should deprime just peachy and chamfer out nice. Whoever ends up with those cases will almost certainly enjoy them a long time.

All Norma cases are terrible junk. Save you life and send them to me so I can add them to the 1000s I have to keep them out of the hands of the innocent.

Exactly! Some here have a hard time grasping that.
But they have the picture posting down pat.

heck, we are talking minute of deer....

you aren't shooting a gopher to bring home to eat....

how tight of a group does someone need? if you are a decent shot, it should only take ONE bullet in the appropriate spot...

was does someone need a rifle that will shoot a " group" to bring down a deer?...

is it the rifle that is being questioned or the shooters ability to shoot the rifle accurately in the right place?

1 shot is all it ever takes..


Shooting groups tells you that you and your equipment are consistent. Not a damn thing wrong with shooting and focusing on keeping your skill honed. If you chose not to, that is on you.. Generally the guys whining and crying are the ones that can't quite muster making good shots on target.

I shoot 5000 plus rounds a year...

a hit or a miss out hunting, I have no illusions....

either one is on me...

too bad so many others blame a miss on the ammo, the gun, the weather

Truer words were never spoken. Sitting at a bench and making tiny groups is certainly a soul-satisfying pastime. I am devoted to it. But at the end of the day the guy who can take an unsupported position, or shoot off his hind legs and hit a target representative of a kill zone, every time, at a fair distance is the guy who'll impress me the most. My old bones are crapping out on me so I can't do that reliably anymore. In the woods I try to keep a tree handy to lean against, or use a hiking staff as a rifle support, otherwise a freehand shot beyond archery distance is catch-as-catch-can. But by God I can make bughole groups off the bench!

At our schutzen matches, score targets at 200 yards offhand (as well as group and score targets off the bench) are conducted. Some of these guys can slop 10 shots into 2" give or take at 200 yards, offhand. Makes a bench shooter yawn, but you try to do that sometime. That game, conducted with lead bullets loafing along at barely sonic speeds, will teach you stance/breathing/mind power/trigger control like nothing else will - marksmanship in other words.

98% of "hunters" could not hit a 12" pieplate at 200 yards standing on their hind feet.

Perhaps that's why we see so many ARs afield ---- "spray and pray"

Are you implying 98% of hunters are Quadrupeds ?

.

Interesting how these threads go south isn’t it. Since no one answered the OP, here goes.

This brass started life as Norma Tactical 62 grain 556 shot through my AR. Military, hell no. 20 rounds was my initial test.
To answer Gnooah, yes Norma makes military brass. It called RUAG, which is the conglomerate that owns Norma, RWS and Gecco. I would imagine all 3 make the stuff and it’s just as rough looking as LC, full circle crimp.

Boring chit now

Case specs used.



First round I used 23.5 grs. LT32. GMM, REM 7 1/2 BR and CCI, 52 Speer match seated 2.206. First visited this load in 2013 specs were 23.5, RP brass and 7 1/2BR, Sierra 52 Match, seated 2.220.
Results 3212 avg. 79 ES and 30 SD.

Second round I used 23.8 grs LT32, GMM and CCI primers 52 Speer seated 2.206. Trimmed to 1.750 First visited in 2013 also. Velocity gained about 50 fps, but the ES and SD halved.

10 started out exact weight, length wasnt measured. 10 were random weights.

First up exact weight



Random



It’s good brass, very consistent. The 3 prong crimp is easily removed. The case capacity as measured isn’t but 1-1.5 grains different. Weight is all over but still stays in a 7 grain spread. I believe most of the weight is in the web to handle pressure. The capacities don’t show enough spread for anything else. No pressure signs or wonky readings even though 23.8 is book max. All loads reacted as expected.


So draw your own conclusions. I have pics of the groups, decent enough but don’t want to clutter the post with too much BS.

I've shoot some norma 223 match ammo a few years ago out of an AR. It was 77gr bullet,came in a black box. Shot very well for me. I don't think it had crimped primers then. I haven't reloaded that brass,but did keep it to do so.

Years ago I bought a bunch of Fed brass from the 'Brassman' in Vegas

Outta the box Savage 'M' series s/shot 24" SS tube liked it

had very good luck with this brass, have a chance to buy another bucket full

I just put a bullet hole in a target, and then when people ask, I tell them I hit the dime that was there, and I hit exactly where I shot!

( pretty crafty, huh? )