Hi all,

I finally got around to chronographing a hornet load I settled on. I am using PPU brass and 45 gr Sierra hornet bullets with 12.6 gr of Lilgun. When working up the load 12.6 gr was most accurate and I started running into sticky bolt lift before I ever reach the 13.0 gr max listed in several sources. Anyhow, at 12.6 gr of Lilgun I got an average muzzle velocity of 2993 fps out of my 22" barrel, which is about 200 fps faster than the velocity listed for the 13.0 gr max load for the 22 hornet out of a 24" barrel.

I have heard of fast barrels, but this seems too good to be true. I am guessing that my load must be way over pressure. One of my fired PPU cases will hold 13.8 gr of water. I am wondering how this compares with most hornet brass? Max loads with Lilgun are suppose to be compressed, and 12.6 grains doesn't look like it will be compressed. I am guessing I need to start chronographing at the minimum 12.0 gr and see when I get close to the 2750-2800 fps range.

Any other thoughts?

Frosty

According to Speer, the “average case capacity” is 15.3 grains of water, so your brass is pretty thick - accounting for the high velocity and early pressure signs. What firearm are you using? The SAAMI max pressure for the Hornet is 49,000 psi/43,000 CUP, but Hodgdon limits their max loads to well under that. Their Lil’Gun data is just 31,600 CUP. So while your load may well exceed Hodgdon’s maximum pressure, it may be under the SAAMI maximum. FWIW, Speer’s maximum load of 13.0 grains gave 2913 fps in a 24” barrel. Different brass, different barrels, different bullets, different lots of powder.




.

When I'm getting velocity beyond the loads listed in the manual, I back the load down. I'm also getting pressure beyond the manuals loads.

I like to shoot a couple factory loads in a new rifle to get an Idea where that barrel is going to be velocity wise.

Usually my rifles shoot factory loads a bit slower than the manual says or the ammo box says. Fine, I know what i'm dealing with.

I've had a couple rifles that loosened primer pockets and were 200fps faster than the Factory ammo box stated. Fine, I had the info I needed.
So I used "Starting" loads to get max velocity and I stopped there and the primers didn't fall out and jamb the action...

If I don't have factory ammo to get a base line, I start with starting loads and watch velocity.

It's a Brno ZKW-465. I've heard some of these rifles had .223 groove diameters, so I loaded up rounds with .223 bullets as well. Only reduced the muzzle velocity to 2970 fps. Pretty much within error of the velocity of the .224 bullets. I have PPU and S&B factory ammo, so I'll have to shoot those over the chronograph next time I get to the range. Although I guess those will be loaded to CIP spec (?).

I don't shoot the 22 Hornet, as I just load the 223 down when I think I need the velocity the Hornet gives.

When I get more velocity than load manuals say I should get, then I let the brass tell me what to believe.

If I have a loose primer pocket in a couple of shots, that tells me all I need to know. If I see no problems then the rifle is telling me what it is good with... not some generalization out of a reload manual, which is usually controlled by lawyers and accountants, not rifle engineers...

I switched from W-W and R-P Hornet brass to PPU and noted PPU was noticeably thicker/heavier and doesn't hold as much powder. Mine's a K-Hornet and I am using Lil Gun. My observation is the difference in case capacity is less than 1/2 grain between the different brands of brass.

I'm loading 14.0 - 14.3 gr Lil Gun with the 40 gr V-max. My rifle is a Ruger No. 3 with a long throat and my charge fills the case to 1/16" from the mouth and the bullet is seated way out.

13 gr Lil Gun is a pretty common Hornet load but with PPU brass, it wouldn't surprise me to need to reduce that slightly.

What’s your OAL?

It’s possible that your load is compressed too much. My Hornet loads, fired in a falling block single-shot are at 1.190 or thereabouts IIRC. I’ve noticed in articles about the Hornet where they use a repeater, the charges are a bit lighter.

JB says that pressures from rifle loads generally go down when you seat bullets deeper (to a point, anyway) because due to the progressive rifle powders used. The Hornet is almost a straight case, and generally uses pistol powders. Looks more like a pistol round to me.

You might post this inquiry in the Gunwriters’ forum where JB will be sure to see it. He knows a lot about the Hornet!

Converted a Ruger #1 to K-Hornet years ago, loaded with L’il Gun. Never exceeded 13 gr. 45 gr bullets went 3000 FPS and 40 gr cruised at 3300 FPS. No pressure signs and sub MOA accuracy.

Whoopsie! Meant 1.91”.

When Lil Gun first came out, they had no data for the K-Hornet - so I called them.
The tech I spoke to, told me there was no way to get enough of that powder into either a Hornet, or K-Hornet case - and exceed max pressure.
But, Lil Gun did not compress well.
In those rounds, Lil Gun gets more velocity with less pressure, due to a "lower and longer peak on the pressure curve".
When I later saw charts of the pressure curve, it became very clear what I was told was true.
I'd look for another cause of your problem.
Please keep us informed.

how hot is your barrel after 5 shots?

I agree with what Mark said.
I’ve shot 1000s of 22h with 13.0-13.2 Lil gun and 40 grain bullets with zero issues.

I've been loading 13.0grs of Lilgun, under various 45gr bullets, since the 90's, and shooting them from my Ruger M77 Sporter (20" barrel), using Remington, Winchester and Hornaday brass.

My Ruger gets right at 2,900fps, and I have not lost a case yet.

What Mark said.

Thanks for the replies. I've been away for a while between work and deer season. And with a recent cold spell I haven't been to keen on heading to the range. I am loading my hornet rounds to 1.77" with the Sierra 45 gr, which has a pretty short, round ogive.
Haven't had any issues with loose primer pockets yet, but I am trimming my brass about every other firing. I neck size with a Lee collet die rather than full-length resizing. I've always heard that hornet brass stretches a lot but this is my only hornet, so I don't know if that is typical (?).
I typical shoot 5 shoot strings without waiting for the barrel to cool between shots. I've never noticed that it gets abnormally hot, but I'll pay more attention next time I have it out. Of course it will probably be several months before I can shoot in temperatures above 30°F.

Frosty

I'm shooting 22 Hornets with 13 grains of Lil Gun and have no problems in either a Sako or Winchester Super grade...

To quote Ross Seyfried whose advice got most of us on the Lil Gun road to hassle free success, "tenths of a grain matter in the Hornet". It's not hard to suss, reduced volume brass, full house powder charge, 45 gr bullets...back it off. It's not the rifle.

i started using Hammer bullets 33gr. shock Hammer on critters at my home and they really knock critters down , i also loaded some 44 gr. Hammer hunters just to see how accurate they shot and they were very accurate in my Ruger 77 s.s. i did rechamber this rifle too a K-Hornet mainly because resizing is easier for me. Pete53

I have a Ruger 77 in 22 hornet. Shot like [bleep] from factory so I had it rebarrelled with a Douglass premium to 22k. Rifle has shot 1/2 moa since and it has taken me a few years to get through the 500 rounds I had loaded. Here I am with lost notes on my particular load. I remember using lil gun and CCI small magnum pistol primers with 35g vmax. Can’t for the life of me find my handwritten notes.(now saved on app). Any pointers were I should start as far as lil gun charge.

12.5-13grs.

Thank you

No prob.
Have had good results with that primer too.

The charge depends on the brass.
Remingtons handle 13, Winchester/WCC military brass 12.5.

Mark,

just noticing this post of yours from November of last year...

" Calling the manufacturer".... you got a few small compliments for doing so... which makes sense to me...

However I think back to when I called Sierra after having a failure to open up, on one of the new GameKing Plastic Tip bullets.

Bet ya I got flamed for at least a 100 pages.. and occasionally there is one or two of those clowns that still like to bring up the flaming again and again.

To me it makes common sense to call the manufacturer for an opinion or explanation or advise.. they made the product...

on the other hand, I gather a lot of other campfire heroes think you need to turn in your man card, if you contact the factory techs for some info..

once again, there are people who use their head and think.. and those that don't... the Campfire has more of the latter, than the former...

hope this finds you and the Warden doing well.. please give Joy a Hug from me and Judie...

I have Remington brass for mine. Found some federal small pistol magnum primers yesterday. I also bought a few new Ruger 77/17 hornet mags, they are so much better at feeding the khornet. Going to load some up shortly as we are getting another blast of snow… curious as to how some of the above posts loading over 13g with 40g and 45g bullets