ideal prairie dog guns - 24hourcampfire

So if you could build any guns you want for PDs, what would they be, and why? Let me kick this thread off, by espousing my prejudice as of calibers. If the rifle action being used for building a PD rifle has a bolt face in the .222 family, I would build a 223 Ackley Improved 40-degrees. It approaches 22-250 velocities with 3/4 the powder, hence less throat erosion, has far less blast and recoil, and uses .224 bullets, which are the most economical bullets available. If the bolt face is in the 308 family, it would be a 22BR, for all the same reasons as above, plus the extra edge of legendary bench-rest accuracy. Agree? Disagree? Favored trigger, stock, twist rate, powder, etc?????

criter giter; Are you getting tired of the "other " board too? I never had anything to do with a .223 improved, but it sounds pretty good. I do have a .22 Br and I would agree, it is one heck of a dogger. I think I am going to make another one this fall. BP

Hey, welcome! Yep, I like the layout here, and the responce I got when I asked for a varmint catagory in the hunting section. Let's see if we can let some of the guys (and gals) know this board is here. Maybe Shooters is snowed by all the changes, with ads, they are trying....

Well, honestly I would stick with a plain vanilla .223 for general usage. I have a relatively stock 700 VS-SF (blueprinted) that will shoot bugholes with one or two pet loads. Plenty of speed out of the long tube and the barrel doesn't heat up that much.I may put together a .17 Mach IV one of these days for low noise varminting. I was thinkin of the little CZ 527 mini mauser because it takes a clip (more importantly the clips work) for fast load changes. It would be a neat lightweight for 100-200 yards.

I'd start with a Remington short 700 action. Add a top grade stainless match barrel from one of the best makers. Shilen,Lilja,Hart or whatever in a heavy varmint contour. I'd have the action trued 6 ways from sundown, the barrel chambered and installed with the tightest tolerances possible and finished to the longest possible length,usually about 27".It would then be epoxy bedded into something like the HS Precision stock with the aluminium bedding block that Remington uses on its Varmint models. A Shilen trigger would be hung on it. The scope mounts would be Leupold or equivalent lapped in place. I would top it with a Leupold 8-32 x 40 with the side mounted AO and target knobs.Maybe the 30mm tube model. One thing left, chambering.Since this fictional rifle is supposed to be a prairie dog rig, I think I'd go with a 243 bore.Probably a 6mm Ackley. Or maybe a 6-284.Let's see, I have the action, all I need is about $2000 and I'm in business.

For general prarie dog plinking I have had great hunts with a mere 22 magnum. I have noticed when the heavy artillery comes out the dogs go down and stay down.If I am shooting prarie dogs at long distances I have a Remington 700 Bull Barrel chambered in 25-06 with a 6-18 redfield. What that 06 does to a prarie dog is awesome. Predators have them already in bite sized chunks.NM Kid

Remington 700 action, MacMillan stock, Hart barrel, .25-06 Ackley with a short throat, Leupold 6.5x20x40, and a keg of RE15 and Nosler B-Tips!Call me crazy.Rick

Well don't have Pdogs here but we do have groundhogs, action is slower and don't have to worry about barrel heating, for Ghog though, a Rem action, 26'' #7or8 barrel(Hart maybe),McMillian heavy varmint stock(they are big,but sweet), jewel 2stage trigger,maybe a Burris 8x32. Make it a 243 short throated for 55/60gr bullet and a 1in14 twist for same bullets, now that's a Ghog recipe...:>.....

Hey, short243! From your handle, you must be a 243 fan. [Linked Image]

Can't blame you, I have 5 of them hangin' around here. [Linked Image]

But I am also a fan of the advantages of Ackley Improvin', so if you are going to have that Ghog gun built, why not chamber it Ackley while you are at it?? ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critr <A HREF="http://www.SaguaroSafaris.com" TARGET=_blank>www.SaguaroSafaris.com</A>

Been trying to reply but it would not post, same name,password but different c omputer.... anyway that was a good question , to ackley there must be a advantage a 55gr will travel 4200 at 1 gr under max (H414) with a min spec chamber and short throat, 1.5" high at 100yrds you can hold deadon to over 300yds, while Ackley Imp. would help for heavier bullets and longer shots the light one would run out of steam I fear. With a 26" barrel when the throat goes south you can get it turned or rechambered to 6/284. I have found if you turn it once, then do the 6/284 thing and go to 70gr(by that time you'll need heavier bullets)you can get a lot out of one barrel.

OK that posted so I need HELP. I tried 3 times on the house computer and nothing, get out the laptop and bingo. I first came to this site while out of town so I had the laptop, same name and password....... oh by the way....how do I get the faces and things down on the post.... thanks

I don't know about the computer log-in problem. If Rick doesn't come to your aid in a day or two, e-mail him on the "contact us" link. As for the smilies, click on "Smilies Legend", located to the left of the message block when you are sending a message. Then you can print the page for reference if you like. ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critr <A HREF="http://www.SaguaroSafaris.com" TARGET=_blank>www.SaguaroSafaris.com</A>

ok i think I've got this straight,just want to take this time to say hi to all,been to several sites and this is the friendliest, kinda like sitting on the porch talking to your nieghbor.....

Hey, short243, glad you can sit with us a spell. [Linked Image]

I know what you mean. I like it too. Visit often. [Linked Image]

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critr <A HREF="http://www.SaguaroSafaris.com" TARGET=_blank>www.SaguaroSafaris.com</A>

My wife is sure I have lost it, came home with a 223 striker. Some how she didn't believe that it was calling me and begging me to give it a good home, imagine that. But I think it will be just what I want those days I tend to walk around.Now for a scope, guess I'll have to come up with a better story.......

Goooollly!!! Just goes to show you what wives know...................... ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Critr <A HREF="http://www.SaguaroSafaris.com" TARGET=_blank>www.SaguaroSafaris.com</A>

Well Heres my Idea 22-250 with 52 grain hpbt match grade 35 grains varget about 3750 fps killed pdogs out to 400 yrds but also us 25-06 with 75 grain bullits 243 with 58 grain bullits or just about any other gun I happen to have with me when I am out hunting pdogs Scott S

Hi all, just found this board and thought I would join. Don't have PDs in Oregon but sage rats are just as fun and only 1/4 the size. I like a good old hornet but am now shooting a #1 in 22 BR. Still developing a load but two weeks ago it shot a .192" 5 shot 100 yard group. Think I will keep it. [Linked Image]

Hi, Scott! Welcome to the campfire. That 22 BR is a dandy cartridge, isn't it? If inherent accuracy AND cartridge efficiency mean anything to a person, then it is probably at the top of the heap, especially for volume shooting. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Critr <A HREF="http://www.SaguaroSafaris.com" TARGET=_blank>www.SaguaroSafaris.com</A>

Thank you Critr. Being Scottish efficiency is vary impotent to me and the BRs are that. Best powder so far is AA 2015 but I am trying to find some N133 to try out.In HIS Service Scott F

Hi there.I've been thinking about a 22br for groundhoging around a couple of farms I visit,you know how important noise and pr can be. What do you think of the noise level of this cart. I lkie what you said about accuracy.Right now using a 22mag and just not satisfied at all, thought about a 223 since I have a striker but ya know that for walking and this is a good excuse for sitting

If noise is a problem then I would go to the good old 22 hornet. Yes, they can be somewhat trying to get to shoot but are well worth the effort. I had a 14" TC in 22 hornet and have a 3/8" 5 shot 100 yard group it shot. I used it at 200 yards for rockchucks and never found it to be lacking. The BR is a great rifle but it does make some noise. I would guess it is the same as .223 of a 22-250.Got a report this morning from a friend, a ranch owner in Central OR. The weather has been so mild the squirrels are venturing out. Now if the snow in the mountain passes gets cleared up I can take the BR out for some real field testing.In HIS Service Scott F

A Remington 700 action , McMIllan stock , hart , or other match barrel ..... just like Rick said , but chambered in : .22 PPC , 6mm PPC , 6mm BR or .220 Howell .Slap a Schmid & Bender 4-16x50 scope with the varmint $8 dot , and a Harris modle LM , or modle H bipod ! Put in a jewel 1.5 pound trigger . YOUR SET !Regards: Rat[This message has been edited by treeratkiller (edited January 04, 2001).]

For the simple, common varmint folk: One of the Savage 12FV series in .22-250. Work the standard trigger down to 3 to 3.5 lbs, stick a variable scope up to 16 or 24x and a harris bipod on it, and whack the diseased little prairie rats before some fool with real power decides they really are endangered.------------------ "When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk." - Tuco, GBU

" � if you could build any guns you want for PDs, what would they be, and why?" This is just what I've been doing for the last several years, so some of my answer is past tense, some present, some future.Since my first use of a .22-.250 on Virginia groundhogs in the early 1950s, I've wanted a larger .224 case and heavier .224 bullets. But we had neither the heavier bullets nor the necessarily slower powders until the last few years. Now that we have the right makin's available, I've designed my "dream" varmint cartridge for prairie dogs on the windy plains. And it works great in every respect!I have two rifles for my .220 Howell (which BTW is a factory cartridge � see <A HREF="http://www.hunting-rifles.com)." TARGET=_blank>http://www.hunting-rifles.com).</A> One rifle is on a new old-style Model 70 action and McMillan stock. The other is on a CZ-550 action, also with a McMillan stock. Both have the incomparable Talbot QD mounts, with scopes I'm not ready to settle down with yet.But the rifle now a-building is the one I have the highest hopes for � a bench-rest-quality Broughton-Richards barrel on a Nesika Bay action, with Kepplinger single-set trigger and H-S Precision Pro-Series stock. And of course another Talbot mount and the best scope I can get.This combination of rifle and cartridge is specifically designed for a lot of shooting at very long ranges, in the wind, without burning barrels up as fast as the .22-.250 and .220 Swift in the same situations.The .220 Howell uses 75-grain and heavier bullets for their superior ballistic coefficients. The larger case COULD be loaded to the same high pressures (60,000 lb/sq in.) as the .22-.250 and the .220 Swift and could therefore drive the heavier bullets faster than what I load them to, but those loads would erode throats faster. I load 'em to milder pressures (50,000 lb/sq in.) for longer barrel life and STILL get performance significantly superior to the .22-.250 and .220 Swift.A ten-mile-an-hour cross-wind, for example, pushes the 50-grain bullet from the Remington .220 Swift load about 170 inches off-course at a thousand yards � but pushes my 75-grain only about 70 inches down-wind at that range.The 50-grain Remington .220 Swift bullet starts at 3,800 ft/sec but slows down faster than my 75-grain. The 75-grain from the .220 Howell starts at 3,450 to 3,600 ft/sec but holds its velocity better. At about 180 to 190 yards, its retained velocity equals the lighter Swift bullet's velocity at that range, and from there on out, it's increasingly faster than the Swift bullet.And of course, 50% more weight means 50% more energy at the same velocity.All this has been a long time coming, and at 70 I'm not sure how many more prairie-dog shoots lie ahead for me � but I'm one happy ol' shooter, expecting great fun with these rifles and this cartridge.

[QUOTE]Originally posted by treeratkiller:Slap a Schmid & Bender 4-16x50 scope with the varmint $8 dot Treeratkiller, By chance have you actually used a Schmidt and Bender 4-16x50 with the #8 varmint dot? I have owned the holdover varmint #8 and their No. 6 fine reticle. Did'nt care for either one. Optics are first class, however, the reticle disappears below 10 power on the No. 6 and becomes equally useless on the No. 8. They would be in money to make a fixed 16x with either reticle. Personally found Leupold and Nightforce in a class of their own. Just passing an expensive lesson along to another. Best, Matt.

MattNo I have never used a S&B w/ the #8 varmint dot . I have looked at a few "not with the #8 dot" , and they see first class "not that I have $1000.00 to spend on a scope" .I only put that in there for lack of anything better that I could think of that had not already been said .Regards: Treeratkiller

22 CHeetah Mach 1 on a Dakota 97 round bottom single shot bolt action, with a 28" No. 8 contour shilen select match all black teflon coated with a fancy reddish hue black walnut stock, pillar and glass bedded wearing a harris BR bipod, and Mk 4 bases and rings with a Leupold Mk 4 10x and a leupold LPS 3.5-14x50mm as backup

I have been bit by the varmint bug bad. I have a Rem 700varmint in 22-250 that has seen action on chucks and dogs. However this was in some cases to big for long term dog blastin and not enough for long range chucks. I had a 257AI built for deer hunting but with 85gr ballistic tips its awesome on chucks. A wby SVM in 243 also needed adoption. For an upcoming PD shoot a Cooper M21VE in 223 seemed like the ticket. If I was to build the next varmint rig I think I'd just call cooper and get either a 223 AI,22-250AI or a 243AI throw in a wood upgrade and a Leopold 6.5x20.

Wildman,Had the choice between .223 and .22PPC in the Cooper M21 VE. Went with the PPC and havent regretted it a bit.

A lot of water and not a few brown toilet lumps have gone under the bridge since my 02-21-01 post (above). I use a wheelchair now, can't swallow ("eat" through a belly tube), etc, but the good news is GOOD.
 
 The .220 Howell custom job is here, ready to go with four fixed-power scopes in Al Talbot's amazing mount (8x Leupold for close shooting out to about 250 yards, old 12x Redfield zeroed at 300 yards, 24x Sightron zeroed at 400 yards, 36x Weaver zeroed at 500 yards).
 
 I'm looking forward to seeing how good all this makes me look -- shooting off a BR Pivot bench, with a Harris bipod on the forward swivel stud and an Accu-Shot butt monopod on the rear swivel stud. The 'smith who put all this together (Greg Richards, Hobbs, NM) tuned the trigger to a light, smooth regular pull -- and the set trigger is even lighter.
 
 I have a feeling that if this gorgeous beastie doesn't turn out to be a match-lighter -- a candle-snuffer at least -- the culprit will be Trigger Creep (AKA Trigger Jerk, AKA Ken Howell).

Holy doggy doo!!!!
 Doc ,you are a serious NUT!
 You're eating through a tube and all you can think of is the advantages of the wheelchairs stability on the shot???
 Ken,I wish you the best my friend....
 I also admire your strength.I hope I have your outlook if I ever come realize your current situation.
 All I can say is "Bite down HARD"...Those sage rats havn't seen true wrath yet!
 Spring is coming and I'm looking forward to a story about the 220 in action.
 Bless you my friend.
 E4E

Being just a dumb ole country boy I use a Remington VSSF 223. I think the fluting helps to keep the barrel a little cooler, the 223 don't get the barrel as hot as a 22-250. So I get a few more shots from the rifle and a pound of powder.
 
 
 Dan

My line up includes a
 22 WRM
 223 (plain variety) 0-300yrd
 243 AI 300-600yrd
 25Gibbs greater than 600yrd (with some luck) ;-))
 I hunt ground squirrels in my area and started with a 220 swift that is now shot out. I slowly started adding to the varmint collection and have most of the ground covered.