Gentlemen, I've got a LVSF 221 Fireball that I'm about to restock and get running. I'd be curious to hear what loads are working for you guys. Go ahead and relate field performance on predators and varmints as well if you like.

I'm thinking I'll start with 40 grainers since I have a ton of both V-maxes as well as B-tips on the shelf. This will be primarily a fox and bobcat rifle but will see some prairie dogs and jackrabits occasionaly........What's working out there for you guys?


X-VERMINATOR

I keep it very simple, one charge 18.5gr. of Reloader Seven. I use that same load with all bullets 52gr. and under, it shoots under a half-inch with any GOOD bullet. Use Fed. 205M primers for better results, at least in my little CZ 527. I've used that load with 40VMs, 50VMs, 50SPSXs, 50 Blitzes, 52 Sierras, all shot really, really well.

I don't get hair-raising velocities with that load (2900/50gr., or 3030/40s) but the accuracy out of the rifle is stellar, especially out of such a light rifle. It simply shoots that stuff better than anything else. I tried Lil Gun in my rifle, it shot great, too, but I had some pressure excursions with it, and I've sworn off the stuff.

I've got other rifles for shooting faster, but if I want outstanding accuracy, that little Fireball is the one I reach for.

I have .221 FB's in Rem. LS 700 and a XP-100 pistol. Most use is for ground squirrels in E. Oregon. It is a tremendous round. Minimal recoil to observe impact, easy to reload for, and seems to be very accurate, at least in my rifles. I recently picked up a new LVSF myself and as of yet to get it up and going. Hope to before late March.

Why are you changing out the stock on the LVSF and what are you going to?

Nelson

Absolutely love mine.

LS 700, and have run them in LVSFs and Contenders as well.

It delivers all you need out to 300ish on groundhog/fox sized critters, and I'd not fret a coyote at 1/2 to 2/3s that.

I run Lil'Gun, but AA powders seem to do very well as well.

I simply can't stand the looks of the stock. I was going to put it in a Bansner High Tech I have laying around but decided instead to use a LSS Mountain Rifle take off.


X-VERMINATOR

Over the last 20 years of shooting the Fireball in a rifle, I've shot RL7, H335, H4198, h4227 and most recently, AA1680 behind 40 gr VMax and Nosler Btips. 1680 gives me great accuracy and outstanding speed. The 221 has killed about a bajillion pds and ground squirrels in grand fashion. It sits at the front of my gunsafe; the one I grab when I need to kill a marauding varmint.

No FB rifle experience, but the 50 BlitzKings and H4198 or RL-7 shoots very well from a hand cannon.

For 40's it was the defunct H4227.

I had a Fireball drilled into the back of a burnt BR barrel, slapped it on a Stevens 200, and found myself wishing I'd done it sooner.
Seafire should be on here soon, he'll affirm that the FB, because it is so small, is touchy like a Hornet, but run right, a great shooter.
I'm running molied 40s of various makes over 15.5 of Lil Gun and have another pet load with Blue Dot at around 10.7. But I wrecked some cases finding out where the limits were. DON'T be aggressive in working "up" --

simple answer--
AA1680 max 20.5-Rem 7 1/2 primer, Nosler 40 grain BT. Go shoot, have fun and watch things come apart.
I have one that shoots honest 3500 fps and honest 1/2 groups at 100 . WIth a better gun and shooter I am sure it could do better.
Have fun
Greg Harrison

Having loaded for the Fireball almost 20 yrs, I find it very user-friendly, not challenging in the least.
After happily using RL7, H322, H4198, and LilGun, I will concur that AA1680 under a 40gr is now the best load for both accuracy and speed.
It makes the 221 a real over-achiever!

I had that same LVSF package. Cool little rifle.

4198 gave me the best accuracy, but AA1680 was darn close and allowed me to use a powder measure instead of weighing each charge.

I dinked around with some hornet bullets and bee bullets but mostly shot 40s. The Ballistic tip was a hair more accurate, the VMAX seemed to splat more.

Lots 'n' lots of 40 grain VMAXes with AA1680.

The summer I ran that rig, I developed my own flock of crows, ravens, and buzzards that'd show up about my 3rd shot on a Saturday morning and follow the "food maker" all day long. It was pretty cool.

Most of my shooting was on California Ground Squirrels, 2 pounds or so.

Tom

Mulerider: Interesting results. I've used RL7, H4227, IMR 4227, AA1680 and Lilgun and a couple others. I got the best accuracy and by far the best speed from Lil Gunn (3500).

I prefer 40g V-max over the Nosler BT - much more explosive. Recently been working on a lead free load.

Nice, gotta love it when someone includes pictures...I'd be very interested in hearing your lead free results, 35gr Noslers I presume?


X-VERMINATOR

We almost had twins. I wore one barrel out shooting 20.1 grains of 1680, 7 1/2's, with moly plated 40 grain BT's doing 3500 even too. One rare windless afternoon on the prairie gave me several kills over 500.

I've been using 16.0 Lil Gun, with a 40 gr NBT and a chronographed average of 3495fps. Shoots and hits very well.

Steve

CZ 527 American
40 nbt or vmax
21gr of AA 1680

One five shot group over a chrono averaged 3546 fps.
Agree with Mulerider -my fireball has been very easy to work with .
I researched load data for it and many people said AA-1680 powder and 40's so that's all i've tried and used.It shot 5/8 too 3/4" groups right out of the gate -good enough for me.
For colony varmints the 40gr vmax is the ticket ,40gr nbt's with their solid base make a great coyote round.
I have killed two doubles with the fireball ,i think the low report of the cartridge makes it a great calling rifle.

I have many hundreds of rounds down the barrel of the little cz it's a gem ,i've glassbedded it tuned the trigger down to about 2.5lbs.
It has killed hundreds of critters -praire dogs ,ground squirrels , crows ,coyotes ,chucks and more .

Plan on trying some heavier bullets soon to expand the usefullness of the 221fb .
IMO any rifleman without a 221fb is missing out on one of the most efficient accurate walking varminters there is.
If a coyote stands still for a few seconds within 200yds it's dead..
FIREBALLS rock !
Mike

ps Any powder recommedations for 55-60gr bullets ?

So with fur preservation of bobcats and foxes in mind, I'm assuming you guys would pick the V-Max over the B-tip?



X-VERMINATOR

X-Verminator ,

I have tested the 40gr nbt on coyotes chucks and a couple of coons ,in my expierence they are not hard on fur .
There probably wouldn't be a huge difference between the two ,but i chose the nbt because i thought it would be better for penetration.
I have purposely put the crosshair square on the shoulder of two healthy two year old coyote at 80 -110yds just to see what the 40gr nbt would do.Each coyote had a nickle/quarter size -tear- in the pelt -the fur was just flapped over not gone.
It would have taken only a few minutes to sew up ,the vmax might have did the same thing.
Same thing on a big boar coon ,i was calling from a tree-stand and a big ol coon came out of a hole in the bank of a dry creek bed almost directly beneath me.He strolled down the creek bed about 50-60yds and i sent a 40nbt high in his back that exitted in front of his right front leg -again just s flap of fur.

Major internal damage and probably the base of bullet exitted and did the damage.

The 40 sierra blitzkings are another top end bullet -sierra's have always shot great for me in several guns.

What OAL do you usw with the 40 NBT or Vmax?

1.915" w/nbt .

thanks Ol Mike.

VAnimrod, I remember a post about the .221 Fireball + 45gr TSX.........did you ever take a deer with this combo? Having used the 45gr TSX some, I know if some marksmanship is added it would work just fine,,,,,,just curious!


X-VERMINATOR

Remington LS 700

Bullberry Contender Carbine.

Both have been excellently accurate w/ 40 BT's and Re-7. Quit weighing each load years ago and went with the little dandy measurer. A huge plus considering how many rounds you can shoot on PD's or ground squirrels. Very friendly combo all the way around.

Good luck,

Scott

I don't remember powder charge. I'll go look just for kicks.

Can you elaborate a little on the problems you saw with Lil Gun? I had great accuracy and velocity with it, but had a couple of rounds that blew the primers. And that was at 15.1 gr which is under what others have listed. Is it a temperature issue?

Jerry

Which primers were you using Jerry?

X-VERMINATOR

Rem 7 1/2 if I recall

I had one blown primer in the first lot of 50 that I loaded at 15.3 gr. A couple of others that loosened the pocket.

I backed off to 15.1 gr on another batch and had one blow out of the first 10 I fired. The others seem completely normal without even flattening the primer.

Jerry

I've used Fed 205M primers with my load of 16.0 LG and 40gr NBT.
No problems.

Steve

I have a little Sako in 221 with a 21 inch 1 in 12 twist Shilen. 16.8 of RL7 and a 64 grn Winchester is quite startling out to about 150.

I'd pick the 40g V-max for Squirrels, Foxes, Bobcats, and an occasional yote. If I shot more yotes, I'd opt for the 40g NBT.

Its all academic for me now - behind the lead free curtain. I shoot what the government says I can shoot.

I was just curious if they weren't maybe Rem 6 1/2's. I had some old Rem 6 1/2's laying around I wanted to use up, so when I first received this rifle I loaded them with Lil Gun and was simply looking for a proof load. The Rem 6.5's have a real soft cup and I pierced a couple right around 15.5 gr w/40gr B-tip. Switched to CCI BR-4's and worked on up to 16.5gr to reach a maximum for this rifle.


X-VERMINATOR

I had the same issues you did, pierced primers at 15.0 grains, using 205Ms. It shouldn't have been temperature, as it was in May, in southern Indiana, hardly a hot spot temp wise. I just figured I had an oversized firing pin hole, at first, but I got enlarged pockets, too, not just a pierced primer. Being cautious, I just quit using it. I have .223s and .204s if I want to go fast.
Damn the stuff shot good, but I'd rather keep the rifle in one piece, so I went to Reloader Seven, same accuracy, slower speeds.

Lil Gun had a recall early on, I wonder if I had a pound that needed, but didn't get, recalled? Doubtful, my buddy has a 700 Classic that works fine with it, I gave it to him.
I also switched to 7 1/2s, but accuracy went south compared to the wonderful 205Ms. I'll switch back when supplies ease up.

I picked up a pound of 1680 this weekend, I plan on trying it in the Fireball and a Hornet I just bought. We'll just have to see about that one, it's supposed to deliver high speeds, too, but frankly, mine shoots Re-7 so well, I might just let well enough alone.

I have no expierence with lil gun powder -how does it fill the case at max charge ?
Kirby [gunsmith] did a write up quite a while back on longrange hunting -he did some testing of powders that didn't fill the cases against powders that filled the case were it wouldn't shake around.
He loaded a few rounds w/a powder that filled the case 2/3-3/4 full -just guessing here to get my point across -and pointed the loaded rifle steeply towards the ground so that there was a gap between the powder and primer.Fired it over a chrono. there were wild deviations in velocity.
Then checked a few more after the rifle was pointed up to stack the powder on the primer -noticeably more consistant.
Then repeated the exercise with a powder that filled the case better -much more consistant across the board of coarse.

If lil-gun fills the case well -forget everything i just said -laf.
From a hunters standpoint this senario could come into play when you consider how a rifle can and is carried -up -down etc.
Just something to consider.

Good point about the case filling. I hadn't thought of that. I will have to check, but it seems like the case is only 3/4 full or so. It was in sort of a hunting situation. I was shooting Jack Rabbits so the gun may have been tilted down before the shot. As to the temp; I may have sent a couple out quickly and then had one sit in the warm chamber for a minute or two. That can increase the cartridge temperature quite a bit. The first time it happened the ambient temp was close to zero so the cartridge temp might have been very low also. I just don't remember the exact circumstances.

Jerry

Every rifle is different so the reloads has to be developed for your rifle . My Rem 700 LS likes the 40 Gr V-Max bullet ,Re 7 Powder,Fed 205 primers in the Rem 221 cases ,but you rifle may not like it.

Have you got pics of the modified LSS mtn rifle stock? I wouldn't have thought that stock could be opened up enough to fit a mag contour barrel.

It's a tight fit but will work fine....I'll post pics when I get it finished.


X-VERMINATOR

I eyeballed the Firball for a few years before I bought one and after I bought it I wished I'd done it much sooner. Mine is the Rem 700 LVSF but I replaced the synthetic stock with a Boyd's Thumbhole Laminate. The heavier stock shifted the point of balance back toward the buttstock and I like it a lot better. I sold the synthetic on eBay for a little less than I paid for the laminate. Don't know if others have had difficulty holding a consistent point of impact but my factory stock flexed quite a bit. Everything fell into place with the laminate stock but it is no longer a "Light" Varmint Stainless Fluted. This is it.





I've taken piles of critters with it, especially crows. Both the Nosler Ballistic Tips and the Sierra Blitzking 40 grain bullets are super performers in my gun.

I've tried just about all of the powders mentioned above except 1680. Reloader #7 is my go-to powder and I like the CCI BR4 primers when I can get them but also use Rem 7 1/2 and CCI 400 primers with good success. Lil Gun stepped things up a bit but accuracy was not as good in my gun as other powders. I found I get my best accuracy with cases I re-form from 5.56 military brass. I neck turn the thicker web military brass to provide a controlled fit in my guns chamber.

Glad to see so many Fireball fans, it's a much under appreciated cartridge.

Hey, is that Puxatawny Phil?

Nice looking stock. It makes the barrel look a little small though. Looks very similar to the stock on an XR100.

Jerry

Xverminator: I brought my first 221 Remington Fireball Rifle on line back in 1994.
This was a Kimber of Oregon Ultra-Varmint model with a 24" heavy barrel.
This Rifle prefers Berger 40 grain H.P.'s and IMR 4227 powder.
Then in 2,002 I bought a Remington 700 Classic in 221 and this Rifle has a 24" sporter weight barrel.
This Rifle prefers 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips and Lil'Gun powder.
I suggest plenty of scope power (in the form of a variable power scope) as this cartridge is capable of extremely fine accuracy.
I once got to shoot my good friend "Doc" Mitchells all factory stock Remington 40 XB-KS in 221 Remington Fireball and with its heavy 27 1/4" barrel and a Leupold 6.5x20 variable scope I was making "one ragged hole" groups at 100 yards!
Best of luck to you and the re-stocked Fireball!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Pics for biglmbass.........





Definately a tight fit bUt it will work. I'd advise to anybody doing this, to free float the barrel to the minimum required, remove material slowly, and check clearances often.........



Going to bed it, work up new loads this week, and hopefully go collect some fur from the hills in the background this weekend.



X-VERMINATOR