I have several rifles in 223. I want to get a 17 REM for prairie dogs and coyotes. I would love to hear opinions from real hunters not from the armchair professors. Do you guys feel the effective killing distance of a 17 is same as 223? I am talking 300 to 400 yards with 223. Same with 17 or do I shed too much velocity for clean kills at those ranges with 17? This should be interesting!! Thanks, Bob

I had one in 700 BDL 30 years ago and shot rabbits with it, cool explosions!! Friends have them but only shoot paper and ground squirrels with them. I usually back them up with 22-250. They can't get it together when a coyote comes running in. I always smoke those dogs with winchester heavy varmint!!

I have taken several coyotes at 400+/- yards with my 17 Rem. I have never felt underpowered using it. I would avoid the 20 grain V-max though. I had some bad experiences with it. I really like the 25 grain Hornady HP. The .223 is just too boring for me.

I have not fired the .17 Rem Fireball, but couldn't imagine it would not be just as effective.

I went to 30 gn Golds in my 17 Rem. 1:9 twist is recommended.

17's are fun but require a little more finesse to reload.

Bushing the firing pin of the bolt is a plus.

You have answered your own question! Stay with the 22-250.

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The 22-250 is the best of the three, but you want a 223 vs 17 rem. I have both and if I was forced (good luck with that) to have only one, I would keep the 17.
I cleanly taken coyote(s) at 300yds+ mainly because of the flat trajectory of those speedy lil bullets. I would stay with the 17 rem as opposed to the fireball number.
However, If you like to see prairie dogs do back flips at 300yds, you better stay with the 223 or better yet your 22-250. They'll be just as dead with the 17 rem. but without the flair.

I love the .17 Rem and I doubt I'll ever be without one of some type.

Reloading for it is no different than any other caliber. Alot of people have trouble seating bullets, but Hornady's,[along with a couple of others] bullet seater, has a little sleeve that drops down and centers the bullet into the case. No more pinched fingers.

I can kill prairie dogs as far with the .17 Rem as I can with the .223 Rem. There is virtually no recoil or I guess you would call it muzzle jump, so you can see most of your hits through the scope. Not that that's a problem with a .223, but I'm just sayin'.

I can't comment on the longer range coyotes. I've shot a handful with my .17 Rem, but they've all been called in under 100 yards. That's where I like 'em! Most have been DRT, but a few ran 30 yards or so an piled up. Never lost one.

The .223 is pretty tough [to me] to beat in the prairie dog fields, but I still shoot the heck out of my .17 Rem. Last season, I shot strings of over 100 without cleaning and didn't notice any diminished accuracy. I could still hit anything I wanted to hit.

Are they for everybody? No, but I like mine.

CZ 527 Varmint .17 Rem.

Personally I'd go with a 204 instead of a 17 rem, main reason I totally hate trying to hold onto those darn lil 17 slugs. I used one a fair bit, wore out two tube and said I'd not go back.

Bottom line, I'd go 204 or something like a 223 AI or a Swifto or 22/250.

Lastly, I am not a big fan of either the 223 or the 17 for anything for killing much beyond 300 yds. I know they'll get it done when all goes right but for me they just don't have the stomp on the critters or yotes that I want!

Dober

Yep! I have to agree - when you want to reach out past 300 and touch something the 22/250 gets it done with style.

drover

My longest Prairie dog shot has been 577 yards with my 22-250. I did get my 17 rem this last week 1/2" groups with initial loads, HAPPY. My second 17 rem showed up today. Vintage stamped checkering 700 BDL.

Eurosport: I currently shoot 3 Varminters in caliber 17 Remington!
Its a very EFFECTIVE Varminting tool!
I have never killt a Coyote with any of my 17's out at 400 yards so I won't comment there.
The furthest lasered kill I have made on a Coyote with a 17 centerfire was at 345 yards.
And this one shot kill was done with a custom 17 MachIV using 25 grain Berger bullets!
If a Coyote hung up at 400 yards and I was toting one of my 17 Remingtons and the wind was not prohibitive - I would take the shot!
Now, where the 17 Remington will suit you so VERY well, is in a Prairie Dog Town!
I have a Limited Edition Remington 700 Stainless Varminter with a heavy 26" stainless Remington factory barrel - this Rifle is a JOY to use in a Prairie Dog Town!
And not just because it is so accurate!
Recoil is so slight that exact bullet impact point is easily ascertained with this Rifle.
There are a LOT of new bullets in 17 caliber on the market today that were not available 30 years ago.
I say give another 17 a try and keep it in pristine condition - if it does not work out for you sell it!
17's are pretty strong on the used market these days and you won't loose much of your investment.
Best of luck to ya!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The coyotes that I've shot at 350 + yards with the 17 have expired. They didn't die with athority but died.The bullets used were 25 grain Hornady HP'S.

I think Mark has it about right--the 204 has the potential to beat them both.

DakotaDeer: You and Mark are on the right track - the 204 Ruger in fact is FAR SUPERIOR to both the 17 Remington and the 223 Remington for MOST ALL Varmint applications!
In fact the 204 Ruger is so far superior to those two that they are not even on the same page!
BUT that was not the question of the original post.
I join both you and Mark in praising the 204 Ruger!
But Eurosport was wondering which cartridge had the furthest lethal range on Coyotes and Prairie Dogs.
I gave my experience and opinion to my limited degree of observation.
Yeah, the 204 WILL outperform, lethality wise, both the 17 Remington and the 223 Remington on Varmints at all ranges that 99% of all Varmints are taken at.
No "potential" involved - its real - its fact!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

the 17rem that a friend had made us mad everytime we hunted with it,accurate yes,but 90%or more groundhogs shot with it made it back to there hole. nice blood trails but they got away. i'll take the 221fb,22-250 or the 204.

Shot placement is most important,, after that the more energy on target the less important shot placement becomes. You need both to most consistently put down game at longer ranges.

I pretty much believe the 17s as a joke..They are just too damn hard to maintain and we have too much updraft wind in Idahos Snake River canyon and I have seen that wind move a 22 bullet a foot high at 100 yards. Most varminters in this area know that and have a lot of fun with the newbys that show up..Its hard to make then hold a foot low with there rifles sighted 1.5 inches high at 100 yards and many a Rockchuck has flipped them off.

I have a nice near new little Sako take off 17 btw if any wants it you can have it for $75 plus ship.

In comparison I purchased a .17HMR, heard it was great on the foxs, coons and tree rats. Well, I found out the hard way! Yes, it is faster than my .22mag but just doesn't get the job done like the .22mag.

Now I must believe the same is true for he .17cal centerfire verses the .223 cal.too, unless someone can show me. My little .17HMR is very accurate indeed but not to be used on anything bigger than tree-rats.

I shot a fox the other day, dead center of the chest, he dropped quick, 3 minutes later he got up and ran off to the woods. Same went for a coon I shot twice, he just spun around and ran to the woods, never saw him again. Now more .17's for me gents, rim fire or centerfire.

17 Rem centerfire, in my opinion is a short range small varmint gun. I would go with the 223 any time. Yotes at 250 yards drop like a used condom on a dirt road.

40 VMax at 3700, devastating.

HM

Easy choice for me, I'd never take a .17. The smallest caliber I own is the .223 and I like it. I wouldn't call it boring either, not with the accuracy that it delivers.

The .17 is not new, it's floundered for many years in the .17 Remington. And years from now I imagine the newer versions will be gone too. If you live anywhere with wind you'd be nuts to choose the .17.

If you tried the 29 grain boatails from Kindler, it may change your mind, with a BC of .240, ain't nothing like the 'ol 25 gr. flat bases. These work in a 10 twist. His 30 grainers have a BC of .270, but take a 9 twist.

For comparison:

40 gr. V-max is .200
50 gr. V-Max is .242
55 gr. V-Max is .255

A 17 Rem will run the 29's at 3850.

Compare that to your 223's, or 22-250 for that matter, for wind drift. (75's needn't apply)

.223 All the way! The wind will eat that little 17 up!
1-7 1-8 twist, shooting 80gr pills.... cant beat it!

for most varmiting , the 17 will eat that 80 gr load's lunch trajectory wise , and also safety wise........

i for 1 will stick with the 17 rem, i roll my own and with the good bullets on the market now i think it will hold its own at extended distances, the 223 has more factory ammo avail. withoUT question but there is something about the little 17 lazer that i wont live without Ron

What do you mean by safety wise? And you think that the 17s, will hold up to the wind, as well as the heavy .223s?
pretty new to the game just asking..

Troy

the potential for richochets is much, much less for the typical 17 load than an 80 gr 223 load .

the heavy match bullets in the 223 are better in the wind , but the 25 gr v-max and also the custom heavier 17 slugs such as the Kindlers mentioned fare quite well in wind.....there's not all that much diffence between those and the lighter 22 bullets .

I see what your saying, but I'll stick to my VLDs so I can buck the wind @ 6-800 yards! Shooting P-dogs @ that range,I'd rather take BC over MV any day! thanks for the info.
Troy

I have a 17 rem and have shot many rock chucks and rabbits with it. It's kind of boring on rock chucks, no drama they just look like they went to sleep real quick. I prefer the 25g hornady hollow point at 4000fps over the 20g Vmax at 4400fps. The little Vmax is too explosive and doesn't penetrate much at all. The 20's are fun on little ground squirrels or small birds. Talk about shreaded tweet!

Bb