Hi guys,

I'm getting ready for the whistle pig season, so doing some reloading. We have two kinds here, one about the size of those little juice cans and one about the size of a regular pop can. I've been shooting 50 grain Vmax bullets out of my 1 in 14 twist 223, and not quite getting the performance I'd like on the bigger pigs. I've tried more speed with 40 grain Vmax with about the same performance. Is there something more explosive than the Vmax? Thinking about the SPSX or Blitz, but would like recommendations based on experience where you compared to Vmax bullets.

The most explosive .224 bullets I've seen are the varmint grenades. You can hear the "pop" sound when they hit a sage rat.

I have not yet shot anything but paper with the Varmint Grenades, but Speer TNTs seem to give some good hang time and multiple pieces. Mt brother loves the Hornady Super Explosives. I usually shoot 40 gr Ballistic Tips or V-Maxs, though, for the extra velocity.

if you dont mind going down to 45 grains, the hornady 45grain spite point hornet is quite explosive at .223remmy speeds. they shoot great in my remmy LVSF.

as for 50's, the speer TNT "pops" nicely. never tried the VG 50's yet to compare the two, but the lighter VG's splatter well.

for both my 223s and 222, I'm partial to the Sierra 50 Varminter Blitz #1340.

Calhoon 42 gr double hollow point!

I have shot many a whistle pig , and nothing comes un-done like the V-Max. for some reason the 60gr V-Max is the most explosive of the 22cal's. if you shoot it out of a 1-8" twist it will come apart on a blade of grass at 200yds.
The 50gr TNT also works quite well.
RC828

Kcnboise: You definitely should try the 50 grain Sierra Blitz bullets - I use them in several of my 223's!
They are a splendid and splendidly accurate Varminting bullet - cheaper than many as well.
Now to the "whistle pigs" being the size of pop cans!
You can call the Ground Squirrels anything you want - but MORE often (always?) the term Whistle Pig refers to Rock Chucks, Wood Chucks and Hoary Marmots.
NOT the much smaller sage rats, gophers, picket pins, furrbies, 13 lined squirrels, peeps, Richardsons Ground Squirrels, etc etc etc!
I normally do not use centerfire Rifles on the hoardes of Ground Squirrels I Hunt (to expensive and many of the private lands I Hunt them on do not allow centerfires!) but I have shot many Ground Squirrels with this bullet from my 223's.
They are "explosive" - or juicy - if you will, on the diminutive Gophers!
If you are interested in EXPLOSIVE bullets on Ground Squirrels the 17 Remington Fireball with 20 grain Hornady V-Max bullets is the most awesome centerfire bullet I have seen!
Best of luck to you this "whistle pig" season and be sure to try the Sierra 50 grain Blitz (not the BlitzKings!) on both the Ground Squirrels and the Rock Chucks down Boise way.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

My vote is for the Speer TNT...

Over the years I have used almost every brand and style of 40 and 50 gr. bullets to shoot the small ground squirrels of south west Id. Due to the volume of shooting I have migrated to the less expensive bulk bullets available from various sources. The 50gr soft points I ordered from Midway and Midsouth shoot very well in 3 223's and 1 22-250 and 1 220 Swift. With solid hits they are very destructive, fringe hit not so much. But if I had to rate the brand name bullets from most explosive to least explosive on these small low resitant targets I rate them as follows. The TnT,Horn SX, Sierra Blitz,Sierra 45 hornet as a group, followed closely by the V-Max & Balistic tips, the 52 Speer hp, 45 Hornady Generally the soft points and plastic tips seemed more explosive than the hollow points. It has been years since I used the 45 Hornady but in those days found it to be a pretty tough bullet and have pushed it to over 4000 fps in the Swift with no problems. Good luck with your search.

quarterboredave - thanks, that was exactly the type of answer I was looking for!

VarmintGuy - must be a regional thing; all types of ground squirrels are called whistle pigs or sage rats here. Rock Chucks are called chucks. At least that's what everyone I know around here calls them...

The little ones are Beldings Ground Squirrels - http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_info.cfm?species_id=354 . Like you say, a centerfire is a bit much on these. A 22 with Aguila Super Maximum Hollow Points works great and is a lot cheaper than a 17 HMR.

The bigger ones are Columbian Ground Squirrels - http://www.mnh.si.edu/mna/image_info.cfm?species_id=354 . These are about 2/3rds to 3/4trs the size of a prairie dog. With the 50 grain Vmax they just kind of hump up and fall over.

Now to find some bullets; Cabelas and Sportsmans are both out of the Hornady SPSX. Might have to order them...

I don't have any experience with the gernade but the TNT and SX bullets will usually open a Ghog or Pdog up. you're not supposed to run them over 3000fps IIRC.

I have never had louder WOP!!!s than with the old reliable Speer 52 gr Hollow point. Not the best bc for real long range, but when it hits, something is going to come undone.

Calhoun 42g Double HP gets my vote, very often you shoot the ground squirrel and he is just GONE! I shot a of the 50g Blitz, tnt, Speer 52, and all poly tips of which the Sierra Blitz king is the most destructive in the 50g Weight.

That large HP plus the extra speed on the 42g bullet really gets those little squirrels fly'en when the bullet is going 3650-3800 fps+ out of a 223.

I guess I should have asked the question differently - what 40 to 50 grain bullet (prefer 50 because of wind conditions) will really get a prairie dog to pop?

I'll ask that way because, again, the little ground squirrels aren't a problem, it's the big ones.

I'll take a look at the Calhoun 42 grain too; they sound good, thanks!

I was using 50 gr vmaxs, then tryed 36 gr varmint grenades. 150-200 yrs just explodes on impact. I'm staying with the barnes little ones for the effect. jmoa

If you want to stick with the 50's, then the Sierra Blitz king beats the V Max, Nosler Ballistic tip, Sierra Blitz, V max is second most explosive in my opinion.

The large HP's in the Calhoun and the Speer blow quite a bit in the wind.

You really should load some of the Sierra 55g Blitz kings also.

If you want to stick with the 50's, then the Sierra Blitz king beats the V Max, Nosler Ballistic tip, Sierra Blitz, V max is second most explosive in my opinion.

The large HP's in the Calhoun and the Speer blow quite a bit in the wind.

You really should load some of the Sierra 55g Blitz kings also.

Just got off the phone with the Hornady tech. He said to try the SPSX as it has a thinner jacket than the Vmax. Now I just have to find a source, everbody is out here and on the web...

Yep, 'cause they whistle to each other!

My preference is for the TNTs as well, especially out of a 223.

have used the v max with great results, plan on trying the varmint grenades this spring. how do they compare ?

Ed

I get great accuracy using that 1340 bullet, same rifles!!!

We shot about 1000 rounds of the varmint grenades last year (condor zone in California) and were very disappointed, they did not seem consistent at all, one would explode and the next one would appear to offer minimal expansion. I have a big case of the nosler 40 lead free and will be posting results in a few weeks.

For non lead the Calhoons are the most destructive slugs I have seen in .223. The all time splatter king is a .35 whelen with the 125 jhp cruising at only 2800fps, absolutley explosive.

Well there is obviously a lot of different opinions and experiences with all the bullets mentioned. I have shot the Varmint Grenades, TNT's, Blitz's, SPSX's and V-max's mucho times at little ground squirrels and lots of big jack rabbits. My opinion in a 50 gr weight is that the Blitz and SPSX are the most explosive followed by the TNT. Then the V-max. If a 36 gr. VG can be considered, it has been much more explosive for me than the others. But some folks claim they are inaccurate. I haven't experienced that. With all that said, I'm buying mass quantities of Blitz's and SPSX's since they are VERY impressive and much cheaper than VG's (typically 2 for the price of 1 VG). But when I find TNT's on sale, I buy them too. My experience has been they all shoot similar 1/4 to 3/4 inch groups.

I used SX bullets for years till they came out with the Vmax. If you dont over speed them they act like they are going much faster, due to the thin jacket.

I loaded them to about 3300, and the results were very pleasing.

ONe time I had increased the powder to the point where the bullets were coming apart, but after keeping them in the soda cooler till using they worked fine. They were just on the hairy edge, and sitting out in the sunlight made them fast enough to disintegrate.

HM

tnt very accurate bullet and great results

TNT's would probably work great out of a .223 but I had them comeing apart mid-air when I pushed them hard from a 22-250.

50 gr open tip home swaged using an annealed spent 22 rf for a jacket. I made bunches in my 223 shooting days and were amazing. Still have a couple of hundred around here someplace. Kind od makes me sorry I got rid on my swaging equipment.

The sierra 50gr blitz is a great unsung varmint bullet. I also like the speer tnts.

speer dose not even recommend them for 22-250 velocities ...
Its in the manual.

Kcnboise: Again the correct answer to your "popping" inquiry now that you have decided you are shooting/Hunting Prairie Dogs with your 223 - IS - the Sierra 50 grain Blitz (NOT the BlitzKings) bullets.
Again this bullet WILL really "pop" Ground Squirrels and Rock Chucks along with Prairie Dogs!
I have used these bullets for a VERY long time and have been very satisfied with them.
They ARE accurate and relatively inexpensive.
And to re-visit the the Ground Squirrels being "callt" Whistle Pigs - I spent 3 days this past long weekend at the Spokane, Washington Gunshow and MANY of the participants there were from Idaho and in fact several from Boise!
Our tables were unmistakeably leaning content wise toward long range shooters and Varmint Hunters.
We atrracted a LOT of Varminters.
I posed the question to virtually everyone who came along talking Varmints as to what "Whistle Pigs" are.
Everyone answered Rock Chucks!
Now again you can call your Ground Squirrels ANYTHING YOU want but in 51+ years of Hunting Varmints of all kinds all over the west I have never heard Ground Squirrels called "Whistle Pigs"!
Pertinent case in point: I Hunted one family ranch not far from Boise, Idaho for several decades starting back in the 1960's. The grandfather who was in his 80's back then and semi-retired but still living on the ranch, took me out one day and explained to me how his parents had homesteaded that ranch and they had tasked him with shooting the "Whistle Pigs" (Rock Chucks) when he was a youngster!
He and his progeny were still shooting the "Whistle Pigs" (Rock Chucks) after all these years and he wondered why the "Whistle Pigs" (Rock Chucks) were never shot out?
He also mentioned that during lean times of the Depression they would cook and eat the "Whistle Pigs" (Rock Chucks)!
He further relayed how the 3 to 4 pound "Whistle Pigs" (Rock Chucks) were the best eaters and that the big 10 pounders were to "fatty" to make good eating.
This life-long resident of the country east of Boise WAS NOT talking about Ground Squirrels when he mentioned Whistle Pigs.
As all during the time of our visit/Hunt we were SHOOTING Rock Chucks and he referred to them as "Whistle Pigs".
Speaking of the "noises" that Ground Squirrels make versus the noise that gave Wood Chucks and Rock Chucks THEIR nickname "Whistle Pigs", the Ground Squirrels noise is much less whistle like than the Rock Chucks noise.
The Rock Chucks do make a very shrill and distinct whistle like noise - Ground Squirrels make a much quieter and a more "peeping" like noise!
Thus the nickname of "Peeps" that is often used for Ground Squirrels around Idaho, Oregon, Montana, Nevada and Utah Varmint Hunting Campfires.
Another reason Rock Chucks are referred to as "Whistle Pigs" is because they often (once mature) become VERY obese and covered with fat - like a pig.
Rock Chucks whistle, and they often are very fat, thus the nickname "Whistle Pigs".
Another pertinent point is many friends of mine (who Hunt and live where there are Wood Chucks) from back "east", where Ground Squirrels DO NOT live, refer to Wood Chucks and Rock Chucks as "Whistle Pigs".
Good luck to you on "popping" the Colony Varmints of all names and varieties this season!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

kcnboise,
Like you for the whistle pigs I lean to a 22 lr, there just isn't mass on them to waste a centerfire cartridge for shooting them unless they are out of 22 lr range then I will pull the 223 out. I use the Nosler 40 gr ballistic tips and on occassion they will not blow up on a whistle pig, not quite enough resistance I suppose. But for the Columbians I love the 40 gr Nosler out of my 223, it is going a chronographed 3760 and it does a number on them - there are no "walking wounded" when they are hit.

I was down your way about 3 weeks ago and had a great time shooting whistle pigs, they were thick. I needed a varminting fix and got it on that trip, my son, who lives in Boise, and I went out west of Boise and shot until we were tired of shooting. Your gophers are out about a month before ours are, we are just now starting to see a few in the mountains of central Idaho.

Your definition and descriptions of the two species are spot on. We have pockets of both here in central Idaho but our local Beldings are slightly larger than the Boise whistle pigs but not as large as I have seen in other places.

As far as what they are called, I lived in Boise for a couple of years over 40 years ago and at that time everyone called them whistle pigs or picket pins and when I was down there about 3 weeks ago folks were still calling them whistle pigs, it has been quite a while since I have heard anyone refer them to picket pins. Perhaps that is because not many folks know what a picket pin was anyway - it is a stake that you put into the ground to tie your horse to so they don't wander away, and a small standing gopher resembles a picket pin (without the horse tied to it of course - GRIN).

I go down to the Gooding and Twin Falls area to shoot rock chucks and I have never heard anyone down there call rockchucks "whistle pigs" everyone I know from that area calls them "chucks". Now chances are that somewhere around the area someone does call them "whistle pigs" that only means that different folks call them by different names. Not unlike Oregon and California folks calling gophers "diggers", I had never heard that term before I started frequenting the fire and seeing an occassional reference to "diggers" in Varmint Hunter magazine.

As to another posters comment that he questioned Boise people about what they called them and the responses he received were negative, perhaps it is because most of Boise and the surrounding area is populated by non-native folks from the area and there is a good chance that many of the folks he questioned were transplants to Idaho like he is a transplant to Montana although from his post you would think he has lived there forever. As a matter of fact it is difficult to believe that many Boise people would drive all the way to Spokane for a gunshow, that is not an easy to make trip from Boise.

drover

I called Sierra and talked to one of their bullet techs - he said the plastic tipped Blitz King is more explosive than the Blitz.

I called Hornady back about SX availability, they won't be running any until May, so they're out for this season...

I grew up in Colorado; there we called the yellow bellied marmots whistle pigs. You didn't see them until you got up in the high country. When I moved to Idaho I can't tell you the number of times I got corrected when I called rock chucks whistle pigs...

The Speer 50 grain TNT and the Speer 52 grain HP, have both been pretty strong returns on investment for dramatic "splat factor" in most of my varminting..real accurate also..

A few years ago, the Pres of PMC ammo and I were doing some bullet testing up in N. Ca on ground squirrels. We were shooting a 223 and a 22/250. The Ballistician for PMC had loaded us 250 each of the 50g Nosler, 50g Blitz king, and 50g V Max. We both had custom 22 PPC's loaded with the Sierra Lead tip Bliz(1340).

We shot 250 straight with each of the various bullets and calibers trading off guns with each other to get a mental picture of what was happening with the launches and helicopters the squirrels were doing.

We quickly came to realize that the Irrigation pipe that was 10' or so off the ground that walked on Wheels around the field was a good measuring stick. The squirrels would be blown up so far in the air measured by the height of the irrigation pipe or sideways measured by the height of the irrigation pipe.

It did not take us long to see that the Sierra 50g Blitz king was the hands down winner. So, PMC loaded the Blitz king in their ammo.

I won a benchrest match in 1987 with a custom Benchrest rifle chambered in 22 PPC shooting a load of 25.0g of IMR 4198 with a Sierra 50g Blitz (lead tip-#1340). The Agg was 0.187 for five-five shot groups with the Warm Up group measuring .069 (warm up groups do not count in the agg Score). The Sierra 50g Blitz is an unreal accurate bullet which is why you see so many people that like them.

"Whistle pigs" are the eastern ground hog, and not the western rock chuck...they are two different species!!! DUUHHH

The groundhog will on occasion let out a whistle [through its prodigious front teeth] to its brethren as an alarm when danger approaches. Don't know if rockchucks do that as I have never hunted them.

Yes, rockchucks and ground squirrels both also whistle to signal approaching danger. So, DUUHHH, that's why Westerners call them whistle pigs, too... Further, the rockchuck (Marmota flaviventris) and the groundhog (Marmota monax) are related - both in the marmot family. Even further, the groundhog (also known as woodchucks or whistle pigs) are found from east central Alaska south to northern Idaho and across southern Canada in the west. They are found throughout the eastern United States as far south as central Alabama and Arkansas and as far west as the plains states.