I am going to load some 40 grain ballistic tip bullets and wanted to know if anyone had any experience with IMR4198 or 2400 in the hornet? The Nosler book lists data for these 2 powders and I have some of each so I thought I would try them.

Those are old standbys and they still work, but there are several better powders available today. My favorites are Lil Gun, AA1680, and H110/WW296.

296 is my go to with cci br primers

Add Alliant 300-MP to that list.

Why better? Accuracy? Velocity?

I get much more velocity with 1680 and Lil gun. Lil Gun gets the velocity with lower pressure than the old line powders. My first choice is Lil Gun unless the accuracy is not there. Then I try 1680 next. It usually gives less velocity than Lil Gun, but much more velocity than 4198 or 2400. 110/296 gives good velocity, but my cases stretch terribly with near max loads. In my Hornet I normally have to trim every other shot. My K hornet produces much less case stretch.

Thanks for the insight.

Nowhere is it written that one has to run a Hornet at max or near max velocities. Try 6gr. 2400 and a 45 grain bullet. The bullet only has to make it as far as the paper and then punch a hole in it. Save the hot stuff for hunting only and your brass will last a heckuva lot longer.

I don't currently have a .22 Hornet rifle, but I've had about ten over many years. I experimented with various component combinations, but generally used a 45 gr. Hornady bullet and #2400 powder.

Toward the end of my Hornet use, for some reason, I switched to the Speer 40 gr. and 1680 powder. Should have done that years earlier. I only tried it in two guns, a Martini single shot and a CZ bolt-action, but this was a better combination than my earlier load; somewhat better accuracy and higher velocity.

I may have to get another Hornet someday, but I never found one that was as accurate as most any rifle in .222 Remington.

Absolute best accuracy for me was WW680. Lil Gun is currently what I use. 3000 FPS with a 40 grain VMax. CCI Small Rifle Magnum primer. 1680 is a distant third.

+1

I like it better than Lil Gun.

DF

I have a Hornet in a Ruger M77 Sporter, since about 1990.

I have settled on Lilgun as the powder of choice. Great accuracy, velocity and low pressures.

Alliant 300-MP looks like a powder I should try as well, but, 1 pound of Lilgun lasts a very long time in the Hornet.

I've used both in my Hornet, now a K-Hornet.

300 MP meters better than Lil Gun, IMO. It fills the case, is accurate in my gun with CCI 450 primers.

DF

tagging this thread. Good information being shared here. Thanks!

I don't use my Hornet as much as I used to and Lil Gun is my go-to powder when I do. Couple months ago I picked up a pound of 300-MP for 44 Mag. use and never even thought about it Hornet-wise. I may have to re-think this.

I'm currently using lilgun in one and H110 in the other. Both have worked beyond my expectations.

For normal loads (factory equivalent) my Ruger no. 3 likes IMR-4227 and the Speer 45 gr soft point. My Kimber Super America likes the 45 Speer and Olin 680 (discontinued, but I have a couple pounds of it).

For an accurate but slow load, the Ruger no 3 does real well with a 50 gr Speer or Sierra Blitz and 11.5 grs of IMR-4198. IIRC it gives about 2200-2250 fps.

A load that has worked well on squirrels is 9.5 grs of IMR-4227 and the old Speer 55 FMJ (with a somewhat rounded nose profile).

I have a 77/22 that I had sent and had reamed to a K Hornet and it seems to like the MP 300 over the Lil Gun. The Factory Hornady 35 Grain V Max is loaded with what appears to be Lil Gin and it will shoot 1/2" when fire forming

Jim

W-W brass, Lil-Gun, CCI-450 mag primers, and 45 gr TSX's at 2922 fps in my little Hornet, it don't like coyotes either.

I've always filled up the case with Lil Gun, but never tried the TSX. I will have to give that a whirl.

H Lil Gun for me as well. I have tried W296, 110 and 4227 neither compared. Sounds like I need to try 300MP.

Gunner what depth were you seating the tsx to? I could not get them to shoot crimped into the shortest channel in my CZ 527.

Good luck and shoot straight all

Bob

Rodell, my hornet is a M-70 Winchester with IIRC a 16 twist barrel, all the lil gun I can get in a case and the small rifle mag primer will shoot into a half inch with no winds.

scottishkat, the coal on my hornet load is 1.770", I seat below the crimp grooves to get proper feeding in the M-70 magazine, I use a drop tube to get as close to 14 grs of lil gun in a partially neck sized W-W case.

Seating the bullets in two slow stages with a light crimp against the sides of the bullet, with my 16 twist I need all the speed I can get to keep stable, have shot nice round holes in paper out to 200 yards and shot a coyote in the chest at near 90 yards, bullet exited 2"s off dead center tailpipe, he folded.

That tells me the little bullet is at least spun up tight enough to buzzsaw a coyote lengthwise, and for all the load trouble, it's worth it too me.

Gunner's 16 twist may be a fast 16, just enough margin to stabilize the 45 TSX. Those old Winchesters have cut rifling and his could be a hair faster. My otherwise very accurate 16 twist CZ won't stabilize this bullet.

The 45 TSX should work in a 14 twist.

DF

You must be right on the faster twist DF, I may have been blessed with an oversized chamber as well, never been able to swell a case with all the powder compression to the point of not being able to chamber a round either.

Yeah, those old cut rifled barrels may show some twist variation; hammer forged CZ barrels will all be exactly the same.

You can get more powder in a case than anyone I know...

DF

Sharps Rifle drop tube, really silly, but it works.

I have owned to hornets, a 14 barrelled contender and a CZ 527. Great groups out of both with AA 1680. If you want faster then Lil'gun a few minutes with a reamer and you will have a K-hornet. I believe the K-hornet is the best way to go and I still use AA 1680.

I rented a reamer, cut .22 Hornet CZ and T/C Contender Hornet barrels to K-Hornets. Fired brass from one chambers easily is the other. It was my first chambering effort, seemed to work well.

DF

ScottF,

I've tried several powders in K-Hornets, including my present one, a Brno ZKW, and 1680 was a distant also-ran to 300 MP in velocity. I may have a slow lot of 1680, but could not get enough into the case to come anywhere near 300 MP--and my 1680 produces velocities right around Hornady's results in the .17 Hornet.

Have a supply of CFE BLK just in, and while it looks to be a little slow for the standard Hornet, it may work very well in the K-Hornet, especially with 45-50 grain bullets--which may or may not be worth it.

Never thought about seating shorter than channels and crimping to the sides going to have to try a shorter COAL.

With all the effort I put into making accurate ammo for the hornet sounds like a great idea. With all the powder compression not much worry of COAL shortening. I have been shooting 13 gr and 14 must be quite full.

Good luck and shoot straight all.

Bob

I'm running 35 v-max and H-110 in my ruger at 3120 11.7grains.

I never had great luck with the 40 gr vmax in the hornet...seems like you can't get them going fast enough... The 35s shot way better for me...
Or 32 gr Speer...

rainierrifleco,

That's exactly the opposite of my experience. With modern powders like Li'l Gun and 300-MP it's easy to get 3000 fps or close to it with 40's, with excellent accuracy. Since they have much higher BC's than 30-35 grain bullets, downrange performance is so much better it's obvious to anybody who uses tries both light bullets and 40-grain plastic tips.

Of course, some 40 plastic-tips don't fit very well in the standard Hornet magazine length, but there are at least three solutions for that. Both the Nosler Varmageddon and Sierra 40-grain hollow-points still have much higher BC's than either 35-grain plastic-tips, the Varmageddon and Hornady V-Max.

Another is to lengthen the magazine of the rifle. This can be done with some magazines pretty easily, and doesn't have to be much. The magazine on my Brno .22 K-Hornet is only about 1/16th inch longer than the standard, but allows me to use 40-grain Tipped Varmageddons.

Yet another is to bypass the magazine problem completely. I've used both a T/C Contender 21" carbine barrel and a 26" barreled Ruger No. 1, both resulting in excellent accuracy with 40-grain plastic-tips at around 3000 fps, including the V-Max.

My ruger 3 k hornet did shoot them better than the standard hornet but still liked the lighter bullets better...lil gun and h 110 as I remember....
I did abandon the 40 pretty quick as I only use the hornet for 150 yards
The best I could get out of the 77 was 3 inches....with the 40s...3/4 with the 35 s...
About 1 1/2 with 40 with three No 3

here's some new stuff from Hodgdon.......CFE BLK......

burn rate next door to AA1680.....ordered some from PV

soon to try in my 300 BLK's......

I got four pounds of CFE BLK in to try. It looks like it might be ideal for both the .17 Hornet and .22 K-Hornet, but might be a little slow for the .22 Hornet itself. But dunno until we try!

After too much of trying to turn my Brno K-Hornet into a .221, this week found 13.5 grains of 300-MP gets right around 3150 with 40-grain Tipped Varmageddons, with 10-shot groups going into around 3/4" at 100 yards.

PV shipped my CFE BLK....will have it 4/3........

good guys at PV.......Ruger will get first test loads.....

I like what Lil'Gun does with jacketed 40s in terms of speed and accuracy.

But it also makes a fine lower speed (and cost) powder for cast Hornet loads.



This is with the Lyman 225415 gas check bullet cast from an unknown alloy (gill-net leadlines) at medium hardness. The group by the quarter is typical at 50 yards from my #1. The charge weight is listed wrong on that target, but the Little Dandy #5 rotor is how the charges were thrown. 'Soft' primers don't work as well; CCI 450s seem to be the trick to getting the right ignition.

Thanks all.

Finally got around to trying 300MP with the 45gr TSX and Hornady SP. Started at 10.5 gr. What have been your velocities with the 45 gr tsx and 300MP? Accuracy with 11.5 gr has been as good as my original 12.6 gr lil gun loads were. The 45 gr HSP was stellar with 8 in about .7 at 100 and 2 flyers about 1.2. Have you gone farther than 11.5 gr? I am wondering what kind of pressure I know lil gun is quite low.

Good luck and shoot straight all

Bob

That 300 MP sounds like good powder!

I will have to find some.

300 MP also works very well in the .357 and .44 Magnum, along with other magnum revolver rounds, which is what it was originally designed for. In my .22 K-Hornet, 300 MP turned out to be the best all-around powder. It's usually just a bit slower-burning than Li'l Gun.

Recent Alliant data also shows it working well for handloading .410 shotshells (which is what Li'l Gun was originally designed for, along with 28-gauge ammo) but I quit handloading .410's a few years ago.

Would it work in the .17 hornet or .221?

Haven't tried it in either, and Alliant doesn't list any data. But wouldn't be surprised if it did. Would start with Li'l Gun data.

What primer do you use with 300 MP for your Hornet loads, MD?

Powder Valley had it last time I checked.

I use 300 MP with CCI 450's in my .22 K-Hornet.

DF

Since this post I have also used CFE-BLK with good results

Jim

300 MP is quite impressive I was fairly impressed with H Lil Gun at 12.6 grains. Only a sample of 1 thus far and my Lil Gun load has been proven plenty in more than one firearm.

11.5 grains is max with 45's and 11.7 with 40's on Alliants web site. I note MD got to 13 from 11.7 with better accuracy in the big book of Gun Gack with 40's. Were there any pressure signs?

I notice the pressure on Lil Gun is quite low with higher velocity. Wondering if 300 MP is similar.

Thanks again all

Bob

I would like to see some data.

If the burn rate is close to A-1680 it should be a good Hornet/K-Hornet powder.

DF

My Ruger No. 3 K-Hornet shoots very well with Lil Gun, but it sounds like I need to try 300-MP. 14.5 gr Lil Gun fills WW and RP brass well into the neck and I seat 40 gr V-Max's out a bit to just sit on the powder charge. PRVI brass does the same with 14.1-14.2 gr Lil Gun - 5 and 10 shot 100 yard groups shot one after the other: