Now that deer and elk season is almost behind me in Oregon except for specialty tags. I start thinking 🤔 with joy about shooting sage rats “Belding Squirrels” in Late April. I have a few favorites calibers above that are always seeing field time. I’m curious what others are using as their Faithful Go 2 Dog Slappers in other states. Anyone still a lover of the 222 Rem as I am?

I am a long-time hunter/shooter and only started shooting prairie dogs two years ago. I started with what I had, a .222, .221 Fireball, and a .22 magnum. Have since added a .17 HMR, .17 Hornet and a .204, all of them with heavy varmit barrels. The .17 Hornet is probably my favorite with the .17 HMR and .204 close seconds. My wife doesn't hunt but she does enjoy shooting prairie dogs. The .17 HMR is her gun.

Beaver10: I shot Ground Squirrels a "lot" last year. I am adding up the calibers and did them in with at least 5 different rimfire calibers (17 Mach2, 17 HMR, 17 WSM, 22 L.R. and 22 Magnum) along with at least 12 different centerfire calibers (from 17 Fireball, 17 Hornet and 17 Remington on up through 220 Swift and 243 Winchester!).
Sadly I did NOT choose to use any of my 222 Remington Rifles this year - but I did use one of my 221 Remington Fireball Rifles, some of my 223 Remingtons and one of my 222 Remington Magnum Varminters!
As far as "faithfuls" (or favorites?) I would go with the 17 Mach2 in the rimfire category and the 17 Remington Fireball in the centerfire category.
The 17 Hornet I shot some Gophers with this year was not mine but that of a visiting friend from Iowa.
It was a Ruger 77/17 Hornet in the Varmint/Target configuration - that indeed was a Ground Squirrel killing machine with its Weaver 4 to 16 power variable scope on it!
I hope to have my own Ruger 77/17 Hornet "online" by spring.
Yeah I am looking forward to this coming years Ground Squirrel season!
Somebody has been "Hunting" Ground Squirrels in my back yard, as of yesterday - it was a Badger (I am sure!) that dug up a hibernating Ground Squirrel and made a mess of fresh dirt on top of the snow there.
I haven't seen much Badger activity of late (I am not sure if they hibernate or not?) but its been VERY warm the last two days and this "enlarged" Ground Squirrel hole is proof pretty positive that a Badger has been "Hunting" them.
Come on spring.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Boltgunjim: I to just LOVE the 204 Ruger caliber for Colony Varmint Hunting!
A few years ago I bought another 204 Ruger Rifle specifically for Hunting Ground Squirrels with on the ranches where I can use centerfire Rifles.
It is a Remington XR-100 in the aforementioned 204 Ruger caliber - it is all factory stock and I have a Weaver V-16 (4 to 16 power) variable on it with the fine crosshairs and fine dot reticle.
Ground Squirrels are difficult to laser rangefind but I have shot them and then walked out to their bodies and lasered back to my shooting platform and I have indeed killed some of these diminutive Varmints out just past 300 yards!
By the way I use the 32 grain Sierra Blitz-King bullets in this Rifle and that bullet (at that speed!) just explodes Ground Squirrels.
I have also used my 204's on Prairie Dogs, and thats impressive as well.
Long live the 204 Ruger.
You and your wife have a great Prairie Dog season next year.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The Deuce is my favorite...but on windy long range days nothing beats the .204 with 40 grainers!

P/dogs in my parts.......

17M2

20 Vartarg

20-222

20 Practical

223 AI

6BR

Boltgunjim: I too have a wife that loves to shoot any rifle without recoil. I’m trying to convince myself I need a Kimber of Oregon in 22 hornet. I guess I don’t need but want one. Thanks for sharing.

Tikkanut: Interesting calibers. I imagine you’re killing out past 600 yards with a few. I’m not familiar with the 20-222 or your 20 Practcal. Either similar to Tac 20? Curiousity killed the cat and pdogs.

Ingwe: Thruth be told, I came across my first 222 by accident. I bought a scoped Sako Vixen that was advertised as a 223. Once the Sako was delivered and scope removed I realized it was a triple deuce. Quick Google search about the round and my Love Affair started. I own 4 now. The Vixen, Remington 700 BDL Varmint Special mfg in 1987, Winchester 70 HV with a stainless fluted barrel mfg in 1997-98 and a custom build Sako with a Lilja barrel. Definitely my favorite caliber. Thanks for sharing!

Varmintguy: WOW! Super selection of dog shooter for sure. I too have a couple of 204’s. Sadly, a couple years ago I bought a new Kimber model 84M Varmint SS. It shot great 3 shot strings, then flyers galore. Changed loads and still flyers after 3 rounds. I talked to a few smith’s and consensus was a bad barrel. Recommendation, send it off to have it Cryo Froze to stabilize the metal, crazy talk to me, or have it rebarreled...I went with rebarreling. I’ve had several rifles built using Lilja barrels, all with great performance. This time around I wanted to try a local Oregon barrel maker PAC-NOR. I went with a 26” super match fluted barrel. Very happy now! Thank you for sharing your selection.

.204 Ruger. I love mine. Probably the funnest round out there to shoot.

My shooting pard lusted after one of those in a Deuce for so long....we could NOT find one...so I "Built" one for him...

He has put it to good use....247 Lazered Yards, 45 gr. TSX...

Beauty!!!!! The deer also.

20-222......222 Rem case necked down to 20 cal........easy 600 yd dog gun...23/H322

20 Practical..223 necked down to 20 cal.........600 yd +.......moly 40 V max in my 20 cals....26/H4895

http://www.accurateshooter.com/cartridge-guides/20caliber/

Tikkanut, did some Google work last night on your calibers....20 Practical is ringing my fancy bell. What barrel length would you suggest? More research on my part and a call to PAC-NOR for a barrel price, etc. Need a winter project. Thanks!

Mine are all Pac Nor tubes.........if you do a 20 PT.....do at least 11 twist.......

dies are easy.....Redding 223 bushing dies with .227-.228" bushings.....204R Forster BR seater

my 20-222 is a 9 twist...original chamber was a 20BR.......for 55 Bergers..

A finished tube is $450 ish.....SS SM......plus set up fee....usually $150ish

I use Salvage actions..just build pre fit barrels & set em up myself...

never had a bad Pac Nor tube in nearly 20 yrs.....

20PT will exceed the 204R velocities easily......safely.......40 gr V max

barrel length ?

minimum 26".......

I don't carry mine.......so I build em 28"

Duece-20..........18# single shot Salvage.........

My 20 Practical has a Ruger Varmint Contour but is only 20 inches...

I mainly shoot 32 V Max and done... favorite bullet when you can find them..

24 grain NTX Hornady.. Lead free bullets..

you can really rocket them...

Tikkanut, 27” Barrel. All over it now with your info....PAC-NOR didn’t do me wrong on my rebarreled Kimber 84M Varmint 204 and super customer service ta-boot.

Good info....PNor Varmint contour with flutes for me in 27” tube. I do like a longer stick like Tikknut since I also bag it.

223AI.....Salvage large shank 28" no taper/full cylinder....9 twist.......

The past few years I've been using 2 rifles for rodents. I shoot a Ruger 77/17 varmint target .17 HMR with the barrel cut back to 20" for volume and a custom fairly light 700 in .204 Ruger for the rest.

The .17 HMR was a game changer for me. I haven't shot a whole lot of centerfire varmint ammo since I bought mine .. probably does 90% of my shots now.

Tom

20PT.......high mileage 12 twist tube........approx 9K rds......

IMR 8208 works too.........safe in my rifle/work up in yours

only 100 yds....3 shots

I shoot sage rats with .22LR up close, .223 Rem not close out to 600. I just ordered my first .17HMR in a Tikka, I'm hoping it gets here in time for the first rat trip.





P

Except the 222 Magnum and 75s; the Mag Deuce kicks the crap out of it with more wind and more distance. There isnt a 40 204 that beats a 69-75 tipped .224 for wind slip.

Actually, the 222 Magnum with 50's launched past 3,500 'splodes ground squirrels a trifle better than the 40/204, if one is inclined.....

222 mag = 223 AI

I shoot thousands of rounds a year at p-dogs.I use:
17HMR
17 Hornet
204 Ruger
223 Rem
17HMR is lots of fun when the pups come out, very good to 175yds. 17 gr. bullets
17 Hornet is now my favorite excellent to 250yds good to 275. 20 gr. bullets
204Ruger I start at 300yds. I don't shoot past 500 32 gr. bullets 223 for years 50 gr. blitzkings but now shoot 40 gr. noslers
223 when I think it is getting lonely, used to be my only 1. It does get better air than the others. It just doesn't do anything as well as the 204.
Retired in eastern MT mainly because of the targets.
I don't reload for the 17 hornet, just sell the brass. used a 22-250 for awhile but I like to see my hits and misses.

no 17M2 ?

Quoted for absolute truth.

Boatammo:I have the same line up of rifles as you. Tonly change is my 222 Rem where you have a 17 Hornet and I throw in my 17 WSM when I want to see a little more squirrel death jumps that my hmr won’t produce at 150 yards. My 17 wsm seems to send them flying at that range.

A fast twist 223 with heavies will absolutely outshoot a 204 in the wind, and works the same as a 204 when both are fed 40s. Plus the 223 doesn't need small easily-broken cleaning rods, and factory ammo is available for good prices if one doesn't want to reload - or really cheap surplus or free range pickup brass is readily available for the reloader.

I'm still using the Remington 788 with a Tasco 8X scope I purchased in 1973. Mostly with Hornady 50 gr. bullets. The vast majority of the varmints I hunt are ground squirrels on private land. Usually I also take along a Ruger 10/22 auto with 5 25 round Ruger clips. When I get a bit bored I'll use an old Ruger target model MK 1. I've even used a .50 caliber muzzle loader
loaded with round balls propelled by FFG black powder, and a Super Black Hawk .44 Magnum. I plan on resuming hunting for them again this coming spring as I haven't gone in several years.

Hard to beat those faithfuls right there! If you are not a reloader the centerfire 17 FB may not be your cup of tea. If you are a reloader the 17 FB is a great asset, especially if you collect fur. A little sorry this never went more main stream yet I don't let that slow me down!

I don't want to start an argument here but feel someone should defend the 204 a bit. No doubt, the 223 shooting longer, heavier bullets will outshoot the 204 but comparing the 40 grain VMAX 204 Ruger against the 40 grain VMAX 223 Remington is a different story.

Using the highest velocity published loads for both calibers I can find, the 204 has higher velocity, greater energy, less wind drift and shoots flatter than the 223 at every distance I measured. B.C. of the Hornady VMAX 40 grain 223 round is .200 compared to the same bullet & weight in 204 at .275.

We've gone over this before.

Compare the best 40 grain bullets in each caliber for BC (40 grain 22 caliber Ballistic Tips to 40 grain Vmax or even the 39 grain BlitzKing). Load them bother to similar pressures, in equal barrel lengths. The 223 will gain velocity when loaded to potential and not kept to 55K. It ends up so close as to be a wash, at the distances small varmints are normally shot with these bullets. The 204 comes out to like 1" less drift at 400 yards in a 10mph wind, which is meaningless when you're already aiming a foot and a half off a prairie dog for windage.

Practically speaking, they're same/same.

Some folks claim the 204 kicks less with similar bullet weights, allowing them to see hits through the scope versus a 223 shooting similar bullet weights, but I've never seen it.

Roundup: Your reply made me laugh MY A$$ Off....🤣😂 Blackpowder 50 Cal... 44 mag when you’re bored. Reminded me of the old days with my hunting buddy who would bring along his 454 Casull hog leg and start a war with the ground squirrels. The first time he touched off a full load at a squirrel, the Casull sent it air-born across the farm road. When we checked on it’s condition “for curiosity sake”. The squirrel was basically untouched except for a dime sized dent in it’s head. He’d missed it completely except for fragmentation from the road where the Casull had hit killing the little fella. Whole new meaning to being “fragged”. Blackpowder 50 cal wins the day!

Will not initiate an argument.

shoot three 20 cals.......along with a std 223 Salvage carry gun...Predator IIRC....

along with an 18# 223AI table gun...9 twist...sure the 223 will shoot 77-80 gr boolits

with the correct 7-8 twist....but these boolits are heavy target style boolits.....

not really suitable for p/dog or ground squirrels.....they'll punch a hole but no V max splat factor

even with an 18# 223 AI you get to watch your hits..53 V max...but what I've learned over the years

the 20-222 burning 23 grs H322 & a moly 40 V max is the cats azz in a p/dog patch....yes 18# also...

ricochet is also an issue if livestock are in the area using heavy 77+ gr boolits..V max do not go far IF you miss

have to agree with the 20 cal clean rods...PIA...I use carbon fiber......pic 20-222 Salvage/Pac-Nor

OSUSig: I got you on this. I load for both my 204 and 223. I have to push the envelope on powder for my 223’s to get velocity that my 204 handles with no problem....Here is my personal thoughts. And everyone can pile on me for it. For my 204, I try to load for FPS in low 4K’s with 40 grainers “no big deal”. Some may say it’s a barrel burner, but I take two 204’s in the field and rotate rifles when warm. On my 223’s I load for high 3k FPS. I rotate my 223 rifles also when barrel heat get’s a little past warm. I’ve found “bucking” the wind was better with my 204 than my 223. Here’s my limitation though: My longest consistent kills on squirrels and Pdogs has been 565 yards and closer. In wind at these ranges I can usually hold one to one half mils and hit. But, wind is subjective to each shooter on any giving day. 20 mph windy day versus a 10 mph wind day is significant. Personally, I hate those high wind days. It always feels like I throwing curve balls at the rats with my 223’s, when I want to be throwing straight fastballs. My 204’s accomplish this for me....Swing away guys!

Beaver10, my experience mirrors yours. I ran some ballistic comparisons using the Hornady online calculator and it validated what I had been experiencing. I kept the information and will be happy to share it with anyone who would like it but it's pretty easy to get.

no doubt the heavy 223's wil do what You say but I like light fast bullets and blowups. Also I can see way more hits and misses with my 204. Realize it is a heavier rifle,XR100 vs my Montana Varmiter in 223.

Wind makes it tougher for sure. Where I live if you don't shoot when it is windy You don't shoot. Plus it is fun when You dial it in. Ammo is cheap,

2 dogs into the wind..........

thats a windy day.........

never too many purfect dog days.........this pic.....

last summer was one of my few...20 Vartarg....kilt approx 175 dogs from this hay trailer

went back next morn....kilt another 100 or so.......no wind & 75*...story book.......

yes was a virgin field.......100-600 yds.......owner wanted them gone.........

Boatammo: When you live in Oregon and drive to Miles, MT for 5 days of Prairie Poodle hunting every couple of years. Like you said, I can’t cry about the high wind that will usually finds me 2-3 days out of 5 and stay inside hoping for no wind. It is frustrating for an hour or so until I get my windage figured out. But, I take a lot of ammo expecting to burn rounds relearning what I forget from 2 years before.

Gotta love a ranch owner who wants shooters versus those who just poison their fields.

Tikkanut, I've commented on your rig before but I'll do so again. Is the micro cloth rag over the barrel wet? Also, I really like shooting from an elevated platform. Even a trailer, such as the one pictured, helps. What optics are you using?

that my man is a 'Sham Wow'

yes.....keep one in the cooler on ice/water......one soak & azz wet over the barrel

rotate them when the one in use dries out in the hot Utah 9% humidity

and/or grab a cool '20' in the bed of the truck..or 223AI.......

yes...the elevated trailer is soooo nice...the added 3-4' gives you a much better view.....

glass on this 20 Vartarg is Vortex HS-T 4-16x44..19/H322 & 40 V max..sweet set up....

older Salvage s/shot w/Accue trigger/small shank high mileage Pac Nor

probably pushing 7500 rds..but the 20-222 still prob my fav..........

Nice. Just another great use for the Sham Wow...

I have the HST 4-16x44 on a 17 FB.

Why you boy OHHHH &AWWWWWW the 204, for those of us that have gone
and made a 20 Practical....you end up with the same thing.. not factory ammo
available granted... but it equals the 204 pretty much...

and brass is easily formed by necking down 223, which is a major economic
plus if you have plenty of 223 brass....

frequently I can pick up 100 to 200 pieces of brass during each range visit..

one a comparison of bullets on the 204 and 223, instead of the same bullet
weight... you are getting a fair comparison, as the 40 grain 223 bullet will
have less of a BC, so of course it will not have as good as longer range ballistics
and wind bucking abilities as the 20 caliber...

a more fair comparison would be picking a 224 bullet, that has the same as, or
closest too BC of the 40 grain 20 cal bullet... say a 50 grainer in 223..

then compare the wind bucking results and flat shooting capabilities of the 204
and 223 then....your results will certainly yield a different result...

bump the 224 diameter bullet up to a 53 grain Plastic tip... the 204 will take
the back seat to that one...

your comparison as it stands shows immediate bias to the 204....20 caliber..

in the 20 practical, I shoot 32 VMax, or 24 NTX Hornadys....

I always thought the 204 was an answer to a question that wasn't really being asked...

John, I thought I would see a different result when using the 50 grain VMAX. BC still isn't equal to the 40 grain 204 VMAX. Drift in a crosswind is still higher than with the 204. Even downrange energy isn't as good. One has to go to the 53 grain pill before you get a better BC and energy but the wind drift in a crosswind remains higher than with the 40 grain 204 although both are significant. I didn't intend to show a bias toward the 204 but the numbers sure do cause one to pause.

some one say 20 Practical ? my other fav 20 cal.......pic during load development...2007 ish

40 V max & H4895.....12 twist...whacked off my 204R barrel & rechambered to PT..never looked back

that's also how I ended with my 20VT.......I occasionally run 32's in the VT.....but 40's is the norm

Geez all this talk of dog busting & its only January !

Thinking I might build a 20 Practical for sage rats. Which is the prefered bullet? Thinking 32 zmax.

Good morning Cliff...

I'll concede to your point of the 204, with the 40s then...

having a 204 barrel on a Ruger, I didn't see anything that impressed me with the 40s
over the use of my 223s....so I took it off... and then put on one made in 20 Practical..
which I run the 32 grain plastic tips... and my favorite is that 24 grain NTX lead free...

MV is achievable at 4750 fps... don't know about distance in a cross wind...
but under 200 meters, which is pretty where I shoot most of my sage rat shots
it sure can decimate a nice fat sage rats....

After trying a 204 barrel for say 2500 rounds, I wasn't that over all impressed enough
to deal with trying to round up the brass for it... still have the barrel...

If I need more energy waaaaaay out there... I just move up to the 22.250, which despite
the comparison you see written about it.. I'll handicap myself with it, and just deal with
those inconveniences and enjoy myself...

They all will work... I just prefer the 32 grainers and then that 24 NTX....

if you build one, and have a 223 die set or two already...

all you need to get, ( or the way I do it) is a Hornady Universal Neck sizing die..in 20 cal
which I got for $20 from Midway I think, or maybe it was Graf's...

I neck 223s down with the full length sizing die, spindle removed..
then use the Hornady Neck sizing die...

I deprime with a universal Decapping die, from RCBS when reloading..
the 223 die without the spindle serves as a Body Die..

the 223 seating die, seats the bullets with no issues...

considered their might be some run out issues, but haven't seen a lack of accuracy
in the field...

instead of wasting ammo in the field on the shots pass 200 meters, I just live
with 200 meter and under shots when in the field...

24 gr Lead Free NTX at 4750 MV, I like those in the field on sage rats....
racks high on the splat factor in my book...

sadly a season run kind of bullet...

4750? Is that a typo?

Good morning Higster....

nope 4750 isn't a typo...

had a picture somewhere around here with that reading on the Chrony...
in fact several right in that range...

if I find it, I'll post it....

or more like "if it turns up" I'll post it...

the 24 NTX being lead free, is actually alittle longer than the 32 V Max...

and this was out of a 20 Practical, not a 204.....

I thought the load was starting to get "hottt" in the 4850 fps range..

and as the questions arise by the naythesayers... yes the bullet was seated just in the case
and crimped... which was no issues as the Smith, chambered the barrel for the 40 grain lead
free bullet, that I think Nosler was making for a short while...or someone...

had a box of them and then wasn't available...

mine is on a Ruger 77 Mk 2 action...which in a previous life from the factory was a 243...
changed the claw extractor on it..and that's about it...

plus added the campfire hated Hogue Rubber Stock to it..

Dang. I'd almost consider being CA compliant to see that.

Almost...


I've been reading up on the practical and I'm thinking I'll buy a Criterion for my TL3 and give it a whirl this year. I have Type S .223AI dies set up in a toolhead on the 550 already, so swapping a bushing and powder die is all it would take to be running it sounds like. Got a bunch of h335 and Brassman Rem brass ready to go. 32 Zmax are pretty cheap at Powder Valley too.

I've been shooting 40's with the .223AI @ 4,025 and they are pretty fun. I bet the 32's would be too.

I know John over at The Brassman runs a 20 Practical also...

he only lives 3 or 4 miles from my place...

Loaded him up a bunch of rounds last year..

he has a boat load of 39 grain Blitzkings, guess he 'knows' someone at Sierra...

charged them up with CFE223....load was 29 grains IIRC....

John's a great guy, and a real pleasure to do business with...

I like the 40's.......but then I've got a stash......

32's in the VT........splat factor.......

Higbean.....when you're ready for the PT we'll steer you in the right direction.....

for example I use a 204R Forster seater die......best $50 you'll spend !

powders.....H4895..IMR8208.....Benchmark..pic.....this barrel is pushing 9K rds......

Yeah man...

It'll be h335 or Lever for me as it runs through the Dillons perfectly.

According to a few articles I've read, the .223AI comp seater should work great. Not true?

Hoping I can neck down in one pass with the right bushing. Anyone know if that's possible? Sure looks like it.

John @Brassman I think uses a Redding Die Bushing set...

Redding 223 bushing dies.........227"........(230" when you neck down 223 brass to start)

you'll want extra bushings

Already had the 204R Forster seater....thus 'Practical'

204 seat stem will have less slop.......than 223.......if you prefer

223, because I have 5 gallon buckets of brass.

223 or 308 Win

you'll never run outta brass.........

.223, .223, .223. It's all I carry to the prairie dog fields. I've never felt the need for more speed or more recoil. Brass is all around and bullets are cheap(er).

Since putting the 25 WSSMs into semi-retirement, I've been shooting pdogs with 17HM2s, 17HMRs, 204s, 223s, 22-250s, and a 6BR.

Most who have a 222 will find the same thing.

Odd as it may sound, 222 brass was available during "the hoarding" when .223' of new make became scarce, much like domestic 22 LR rounds.....