Looking at a different Prairie dog rifle .The 20 cal is of interest to me .

Desire feedback from those who have used them,

Pretty much peas in a pod, a slight edge in the speed depot for the 204, cheap expendable brass for the 20 Practical. My 20 Practical is on a AR platform brass loss is more common than a bolt gun so the 20 P works better for me.

Both calibers are excellent and both calibers are available on AR15 platforms. Mine is a bolt gun as I'm afraid of my trigger finger with an AR. I believe the 204 is the best prairie dog caliber out to 500 yards there is.

I am not into the AR`s so it would be a bolt gun.

What twist is best ? do you shoot 32`s or 40`s ?

I shoot 40's, pretty much exclusively. By the way, I shoot bolt guns, not AR's.

My 223`s reach to 400 but I would like to try the 20.

I retired my orig. 223 after approx. 15000 rounds. My best with it was 2 dogs at 564. A witness was there.

Hate to change as that rifle worked so well for so long.

If you run the numbers, you'll find the 204 40 grain VMAX outperforms your 50 grain 223 in all respects.

Yes I have looked at the numbers and that is why I will make the change.

If you are changing you should be sure it is to a better stick.

I've worked up a couple of 204 Rugers. Kind of like them, lots of performance, but I think they run a little hot for me. If I do a 20, it will be either a TACtical, or maybe a VarTarg, the former most likely.

I've had 4 .204s ... "ish".

The first was a late build 700 ADL just as they transitioned to the SPS. Accuracy was never better than 1.5 inches and 2.5 was more normal. At the same time I got a 14" barrel for my Contender. It was both inaccurate and produced the fireball from hell. I worked with both a while and abandoned the cartridge for 4-5 years.

3rd and 4th were semi-customs, PacNor 1-12" twist 3 L&G barrels. Sequential builds on the same action. The first rig was a 24" version of a 700 VSSF in an HS Precision stock, fluted, etc. It shot very well. At a certain point in a barrel's life, suddenly the round count between cleanings needed before bullets start to tumble or disintegrate on firing begins to drop far enough it interferes with a day's shooting. I hit that point and continued to use the gun with ever more frequent cleanings 'til it got to where I was having to pack an extra rifle to get through a day, then rebarreled again. The 2nd barrel is a factory sporter contour, fluted, and I moved the barreled action to a McMillan hunter's edge stock.

Funny thing, despite the change in contour and weight, after working up loads for the new barrel, I compared to what I shot in the older one ... exact match. I've never had that happen before.

I like .204. Lots.

Tom

What weight bullets are you running Tom?

OSU Sig: I agree with your comment on the 204 Ruger 100%!
Your comment: "I believe the 204 is the best prairie dog caliber out to 500 yards there is".
After having used this cartridge extensively for the last 14 years I have concluded that the 204 Ruger is THE best "all-around Varmint/predator cartridge" EVER made!
I have Hunted virtually every manner of Colony Varmint, predator, Varmint, small game and even wild Turkeys with the 204 and the cartridge leaves NOTHING to be desired.
Over the past 14 years I have bought and tested 8 (eight) Varmint Rifles in caliber 204 Ruger (some used most new!) and every one of them has been wonderfully accurate!
I still own all 8 of those 204's by the way - that is another testament to their accuracy!
I buy and sell a LOT of Rifles -but I never sell one that is especially accurate.
If you want an accurate, lethal, ultra low recoil, flat shooting, slow to warm a barrel caliber for shooting Prairie Dogs then (of course!) the 204 Ruger is the answer for you.
By the way your comment on the 204 and "500 yards" I would like to expand upon that briefly - 500 yards and under is the distance at which 99% of all Varmints and predators are shot at!
The 204 Ruger is NOT diminished by your 500 yard contention here!
IF.... I were starting out Varminting today (instead of 60 years ago!) THE 204 Ruger is the only caliber I would buy in a Varmint Rifle - instead of the myriad of cartridges and Rifle models I own now!
Don't let anyone denigrate the 204 Ruger to you - if you encounter someone doing so, you will know you have encountered a bullshitter!
Knowledge is power.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

As usual VarmintGuy, you are spot on. I've been shooting the 204 for 7-8 years and see no reason to change. I'm thinking of getting a Ruger #1 in 204 as a main battle rifle against the prairie dog hoards. I haven't shot any factory #1's in the 204 so if anyone has feedback, I'd like to hear it.

OSU SIG Since you mention the VMAX I have a question .

In my 223 the Nos Ballistic TIP shot a tad better than the VMAX.

Did you find any difference ?

32s (Nosler, Hornady), 39s (Sierra), 40s (Nosler, Hornady) and 45 (Hornady). I have a box of 39 grain Speers I haven't tried yet.

In this gun I'm shooting WW brass and Remington 7-1/2 primers .. because the firing pin hole is sloppy and the 7-1/2s are tougher than WW and Federal which gave me problems with primer piercing. Both 32 grain bullets shoot best in my gun with 28 grains of H335. All 3 39s/40s I've used all shoot best with 27 or 27.5 (I'm at work, don't have my load notes handy) of Varget. The 45s get 26.5 or 26.7 or something like that grains of Varget.

Right now most of my ammo is loaded with the 40 grain Hornady in hopes of an eastern Oregon coyote safari assuming some wind. The 39 grain Sierra is a hair more accurate but seemingly lower BC and a bit less explosive. Likewise, the 32 grain Nosler seems a hair more accurate than the Hornady but the Hornady has even more splat than the Nosler .. which is already pretty darn impressive.

Tom.

I have found the 304 rougher to be exceptional on PDs with 32 grain bullets.
And I have had some very good results with 35 grain Berger’s on coyotes.

OSU Sig: I indeed have a very pleasing Ruger #1-V-SS in caliber 204 Ruger (this is the stainless steel, laminated stock, heavy barrel model).
I love Ruger #1's and this one is NO disappointment.
I have owned it for 10+ years now and I just love it.
It shoots so well that it is with me for the duration!
My favorite quarry with it is a remote colony of Rock Chucks and once I get to it I only shoot ONE Rock Chuck - take a picture and move on.
I have a silver Leupold 6.5x20 variable on it and it is as handsome as can be.
Back when I was doing load development it showed GREAT promise with the 35 grain Bergers but at about that time I decided to feed all my 204's the easier to come by Sierra 32 grain BlitzKings and I switched this Rifle to this bullet as well.
I think they made the Ruger #1-B in caliber 204 Ruger as well but I have never had anything to do with that model in 204.
Good luck if you decide to try one.
Went to my loading log book here quickly before dinner and the smallest group I have shot with this Rifle is .343" (5 shots at 100 yards) next smallest is .422" (5 shots at 100 yards) - the largest load testing or sight-in verification group I have shot with this #1-V-SS in 204 Ruger is .658" (5 shots at 100 yards) - for those familiar with all stock factory original Ruger #1's that is very good shooting!
Dinner bell - more later.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

I have been shooting/reloading for 55+ years and the 204 Ruger is the MOST accurate Factory cartridge I have ever owned. As far as bullet weights the only ones I have used are the 39 Sierra's


Jim

I've been so very satisfied with the VMAX that I haven't tried the Ballistic Tip.

Hippy said it best. I have yet to do any substantial loading for the 204 because the Hornady 40 grain VMAX factory load is just extremely accurate.

My 20 Practical is fed two bullets...

32 V Max

24 gr NTX.....at about 4500 fps or so...

That's a screamer.

I have 2 20P, one is a rebarreled Ruger American and the other is an 18" X-caliber barreled AR I built. Both will shoot the 35gr burgers into 1/2" groups at about 4K fps. At the time I built them 204 brass was not as easy to get as it is today. I have no regrets though. 223 brass is cheap and forming is simple.

Have used them both...custom set ups...Pac Nor barrels

Ballistic twins...Practical brass is always available..223......

I have a p/dog set in 204 Ruger here now F/S...heavy gun..11 twist....

PM me if interested....Savage solid bottom s/shot...very very low rds out

I like the 20 prac over the 204 simply the availability of brass. 223 FL bushing die with a .226 bushing will neck down just about any 223 brass for the 20 Prac. Except maybe Lapua. LC brass is very good. A 11twist will cover anything from 32-40 gr.

Side note. With the popularity of the 20P, I'm surprised no one has offered a factory load for it.

It could be argued that the 204 is more "practical" due to the presence and selection of factory ammo.

There is no forming with the 20 Prac. It's just a 223 necked down. No different then shooting new factory brass.

A few comments:

I tried the .204 when it first appeared, and it shot noticeably flatter and drifted less in the wind than the .223 out to "normal" ranges with the same bullet weights, say 400-500 yards. In several rifles it also shot more accurately than the .223, on average, perhaps because of the quality of early factory ammo, but perhaps not.

I soon ended up with several thousand rounds of .204 brass, but then the Obama Shortage hit, and .204 brass was one of the casualties. That's when the .204 Practical started to become more popular, because .223 brass was still available. If you were a handloader (and most avid varmint shooters are) the .20 Practical made more sense. If I had started down the .20 road at that time, it would have made more sense. But general .223 brass isn't as high quality as the .204 brass I have on hand. If somebody actually likes (or has the time) to sort .223 brass for consistency, or turn the necks, or whatever, then the .20 Practical will do the same things.

But the Obama Panic is over, though some other shooter panic will no doubt occur in the next few years. They have been, regularly, since the 1990's. But I don't really care, because of my thousands of rounds of high-quality .204 brass, and from from what I see on the Internet, there's plenty of .204 brass available now.

And there is no presence of good quality factory ammo, either.

Good that makes me love it for the exclusivity of it all the more....

I'm a handloading varmint shooter......not a store bought ammo shooting varmint shooter...

And that is why there is a multitude of very good calibers so that we can all have our favorites. Merry Christmas John. I hope we're able to get together in the spring of 2019.

If you do a Tac20, I'd HIGHLY recommend Greg Tannel's method of chamber reaming. Kindler's
reasoning of bumping back the shoulder of the .223 case makes no sense at all. IIRC, he
bumped it back .010". Go ahead and ream the chamber so that the cases need no bump back
at all, so that the die only sizes the neck, just as in the 20 Practical.

In my experience, no need to fire form the cases with squib loads, just go with the lower
recommended loads. They are just as accurate as loads in formed cases.

I had a barrel done with the shorter chamber and it just makes for more steps and little to no
more gain. Even at that, 24gr H4198 gets 32gr Hornadys to 4100fps with no pressures signs
in an Encore barrel. Accuracy puts my Ruger American Predator in .204 to shame.

Good Thread. I am tipping it to the top as it is no longer in view of the casual page peeper. Thanks, it fits my current Savage Single Shot Project. Any one have any thing to add?

I have appreciated all of the information and comments.

Thanks to all.

If the stars align my plans are to go with the 20P. I need to pick up a action and a barrel and be ready for June .

PM sent on 204R

high mileage 20 Practical.....Pac Nor 12 twist......40 V max..3 @ 100

Having had both think as far as noticeable use there is NO difference. Several years bac I purchased a Remington XR-100 in 204 and at that time 204 brass was as easy to find as Unicorns. Purchased a 20 Practical reamer as I had 500 rounds of 223 Dakota (Lapua) brass.
The rifle served me well then it was stolen,after looking for a replacement I found a AS New XR-100 in 204 now that 204 brass is readily available it serves the purpose.

Both of these rifles would shoot .3 groups with the 204 having about 100 FPS more velocity on paper there was no measurable difference as I have targets to verify.

From a Resale point the 204 is by far the better choice as factory ammo is available

Good Luck

Jim

I had a 700 and a #1 in 204. They shot OK.

I have a CZ in 204, accuracy is excellent.

Hippy: Sad to hear about your stolen XR-100 in 20 Practical - I will keep an eye out for it here in the Rocky Mountain west.
I was SO impressed with my first XR-100 Rifle in 204 Ruger (its accuracy, flat trajectory and lethality) that I bought a second XR-100 in 204 Ruger!
Hoping that the second XR-100 in 204 would shoot NEARLY as good as the first one. It did - it shoots every bit as well as the first!
I use them almost exclusively on Colony Varmints (Ground Squirrels, Prairie Dogs and Rock Chucks) and Badgers.
Wonderful guns these XR-100's I own additional XR-100's in 223 Remington and 22-250 Remington as well.
The stocks are just about perfect for me while shooting afield and from the bench.
Last year a member here listed another XR-100 in 204 Ruger for sale on our classifieds and I ended "adding" that third XR-100 in 204 Ruger to my, now for certain, "lifetime supply".
Why Remington Arms Corporation quit producing XR-100 Rifles is absolutely baffling to me!
Again sorry to hear about your stolen Rifle.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Craigster: I own one of the Ruger #1-V SS Rifles in 204 Ruger - this is the heavy barrel model with gray laminated stock - it shoots rather well with the high power Leupold variable scope I have on it.
And a Remington 700 VLS in 204 Ruger was the second Rifle I purchased in 204 Ruger caliber - it is quite accurate. I checked my loading log and the last four times I took this VLS to the range for sight in verification (in four different years!) the average of those four sight in verification groups (5 shots at 100 yards) comes to .386:!
That is splendid accuracy in my experience.
I have as yet to encounter (buy for myself!) an "in-accurate" heavy barrel Rifle in caliber 204 Ruger.
I own 8 (eight) Rifles in 204 Ruger currently.
I think the 204 Ruger is one of THE most inherently accurate Varmint cartridges ever developed!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

See... this thread is too good not to keep around. Quality data here. No name calling. APPRECIATE THIS VERY MUCH. Bill

When I go PD shooting I bring several guns including what I might be shooting game animals with in the fall. I usually bring a boomer too - great practice.

One of the issues with PD shooting is that now and then a fellow gets into a field that the local boys have not shot their AR’s and their 22’s, so there is lots to shoot.

When that happens it’s a good idea to have several rifles along so you don’t over-heat the barrels.

My PD rifles include the 204 and a couple 223’s.

I find that .224 bullets are often cheaper than other calibers, so the .223 gets used a lot.

There are better cartridges than the 223 perhaps, but that is the one I shoot the most - cheap brass and cheap bullets and cheap shooter.

BTW: Wyoming doesn’t (or had not last I shot there) require a license to shoot PD’s. Call their Game department and they’ll fill you in on where the best shooting will be. The last time I went to Wyoming there were four of us and I brought 6 rifles. There were a lot of hot barrels. We shot for a full week.
The place was near where the North Platte comes out of Colorado - on the plains. I ran out of ammunition in 5 of the rifles. A rancher found out what we had done and begged us to come to his ranch, but ammo was nearly gone and time to go back to work. Nearby was a free campground where we stayed.

Saratoga, WY was a nearby town.

Bugger: I am notoriously CHEAP and a notorious "non-hotrodder" handloader - I am still trying to ascertain if 223 Remington brass or 204 Ruger brass gives me more firings per brass's lifetime?
I also shoot a lot of both the 223 Remington and the 204 Ruger and the "cost" difference in reloading the two is negligible (not a factor to me!) and remember I am notoriously CHEAP when it comes to purchasing staples like reloading components, food, clothing etc).
Basically I am saying the costs over the lifetime of a piece of brass, comparing the 204 Ruger to the 223 Remington, is not much/not a factor for me.
Both the 223 Remington and the 204 Ruger are very fine and very useful Varminting cartridges but for all around Varminting (including night calling, Colony Varminting, predator Hunting, Badger Hunting etc) the 204 Ruger, in my EXTENSIVE experience, wins hands down - the amazing accuracy of the 204 Ruger, the extreme lack of recoil, the amazing lethality and the slowness to heat a barrel are just a few of the many attributes of the 204 Ruger that give it the "superior" rating in my book!
Long live the amazing 204 Ruger.
And this, trying the wildcat 20 Practical and its significant added expenses, for less performance, has never even seriously crossed my mind!
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

Now is the time to get into one, AR's are at a all time low. You can get into a build yourself for about 500.00 to 600.00