I have thousands of 50 Vmax and 50 gr. Blitzking bought before I retired 20 years ago.. But I have been shooting 40 gr. Vmax in my .223's... I am about to make a short order with Midway, and thought of picking up a few thousand 40 gr. Vmax.. I like the performance I get with these, but kind of wondered how folks felt about the 50's... I did have some trouble with bullets bouncing across the fields when I shot them out of my .222, never noticed it with .223.. What wt. do you favor for the .223?????

I like 55 gr VMAX. However, a friend gave me some 2nds that were 50 gr Blitzkings. Those things shot amazing with some Benchmark. I could get used to more of them if the price came down to the VMAX arena.

At the end of the day, all my pdog hunting is done with a 55VMAX. For the price, they are hard to beat.

223 and 40 gr Nosler BT or V-Max is a perfect match for PD's. I prefer the 40 Nosler BT because I use the same load for PD's and coyotes. The Nosler is less explosive than the V-Max so if you are strictly going to use the V-Max for PD shooting they are great for that.
I have shot both 50 gr V-Max and 50 gr Blitzking out of my 223 and they both worked well but they create a bit more recoil making it more difficult to see close in hits.

drover

I shoot a ton of 50s... I always bought them in the Zmax form...

WCH the 40s you like are just fine and frangible enough. For 50s I like Speer TNTs...very frangible and I often find them by the 1000 cheaper than Vmax. Accurate too.

WyoCoyoteHunter: I have been "worrying" about ricocheting bullets while Colony Varmint Hunting for over 50 years now.
The worst offending, ricochet prone, bullet I have ever used (in 22 caliber) was the amazingly accurate Sierra 52 grain HP/BT MatchKings!
I mean those things were/are as hard as nails - fine at the range but banned by me and anyone that Hunted with me, afield.
I've posted before about the dairy farmer who had to put down one of his best producing cows because of a bullet wound and the offending bullet was a 52 grain Sierra HP/BT MatchKing.
He had dug that bullet out of the cows wound after it was put down and showed it to us Colony Varmint (Rock Chucks in this instance!) Hunters with a stern warning about field safety!
Anyway I found the humble little 50 grain Sierra "Blitz" bullets to be extremely frangible in my 222's and 223's as well as being VERY accurate and lethal on Varmints like Prairie Dogs and Rock Chucks.
I still use these humble bullets in a several of my 221's, 222's, 223's and in my 224 Weatherby (for a while).
They are "cheaper" than many other bullets also.
Years ago I had a "custom" Varmint Rifle made up to shoot the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips. The Rifle was built on a Remington 700 action and has a HEAVY 25" Shilen stainless steel barrel on it.
It weighs 13 pounds 15 ounces with Jewell trigger and a Leupold 6.5x20 variable scope on it.
It shoots the 40 grain Nosler Ballistic Tips extremely well! And I can watch bullet impact through the scope - no ricochets with this bullet!
These bullets are pricey but again they DO NOT ricochet.
These might be worth a try.
Several of the ranches I Hunt Ground Squirrels on do not allow centerfire Rifles on, but some do, and I take this Rifle along from time to time in case a Badger or Coyote shows - now and then I plink a few Gophers with it as well.
Good luck with whichever you choose.
Hold into the wind
VarmintGuy

The answer is simple and effective, nothing will outperform the 40 VMax or Varmigeddon in a 222, 223 or 222 Mag and of course H335 powder...

53 V max

40 Vmax here.

Same here Tom! I only buy them in the 1000 bullet bulk box....at about 10 cents a round...
and they are as accurate as hell.... along with explosive....

I love to bounce them right in front of sage rats.... they turn into Shrapnel....cut the rats to pieces
with parts going all over the place in all directions...

plenty of red mist that'a way...


plastic tip bullets, I've settled on 40 grain and 53 grain VMaxes and Varmaggeddons.
in 22.250, 53 VMax and Varmaggeddons.

yea..

forgot about the less expensive 53 gr Varmegeddons

I've shot a lot of dogs with both the 50 and 55 grain bullets. I used to buy bulk in whatever Midway had on sale and I've shot Hornady, Nosler and Sierra plastic tips. They all shot well but the Sierra was slightly more accurate. I found the 40-45 grain bullets to be plenty explosive on dogs but were affected by the wind more. I doubt any of these will be a bounce hazard. I've shot at and missed a few dogs by being a little low, hitting at the top rim on the mound. I first thought these to be kills but investigating proved them to be misses with copper fragments in the dirt. I've even shot a few Varmint Grenades but never find these on sale. I shoot a lot of BL-C2 and there is about a 1 grain difference in pressure from Arkansas to the hot sun in Texas/Oklahoma.

I shop shootersproshop dot com for Nosler seconds. 50 grain Ballistic Tip Varmint over Benchmark gives me 3400 FPS and astonishing accuracy.

Factory seconds are priced close to BOGO.




P

My absolute favorite. Effective and accurate.

I use the Sierra 50 Blitz in everything from the .222 through .220 Swift. Very accurate bullet in every rifle I've used it in.

I don't have prairie dogs where I am, but buy bulk bullets on ocassion - Hornady 55 gr. or Bulk Win 50/55 gr. bullets - when they are on sale. These work great on coyotes, groundhogs, foxes and pests like skunks, feral cats, etc. I like 40 gr. VMaxes too, but I haven't found enough of an accuracy difference hunting these animals to warrant spending the extra money. I have bought some Varmageddon bullets to try, and still have about 1500 Zombie 40 gr. VMaxes.

I just bought 1,000 HRN-2266B - 55 gr. Hornady for $99 USD ($129 CDN)

They are more for my 225. I have approx. 15,000 - 50 gr. FB homemade 224 bullets made from 22 LR cases, but they are only shot from my 222s.

40's are my favorite in the 221 and 223.


I shoot 50's in the 22-250.

I would go with 40 grain VMAX if you gun is accurate with them. In my guns (so far) they have been almost as accurate as the ballistic tip ... no noticeable difference in the field ... and a little more explosive.

I wouldn't stock up on 'em, but if you want to try a box or two for fun, the little stubby 35 grain VMAX can be fun at short range.

Tom

The 35 grain VMax reminded me of this..

the 35 grain NTX lead free version... 35 grains, but the length of the 50 grain V Max...
and it can be rocketed in the 4400 fps range....due to its weight...

35-gr. VMax. They don't look like they'd be accurate but they are. 200 yds to 400 yds is our main window, and the 35s rock there.

I was just looking in the Nosler and Hodgdon load data for 223 with 35 gr bullet and cannot find any load that achieves over 3900 fps, with most of them nearer 3800 fps for top end loads. What load data are you using to get 4400 fps with the 35 gr NTX?

That could be an interesting combo if one can safely get 4400 fps out of it.

drover

You can't, from a 223 Rem, you might get 3900 and change. 4400 fps isn't possible. You have to step up to a Swift or similar. He's quoting about the bullet from information that Hornady has published.

My favorite bullet for a slow twist 223

While normally I would agree with you, but a 30 grain w/Accurate 2200 loaded to 62,350 psi clocks out of a 24” tube 4300+ and a 35 @ 4150. Longer tube, tight chamber and guts then who knows. As far as the Swift, 4050 w/52 to 4435 w/45. Burnt up that tube quick.

He was asking about a 223 Rem and getting 4400 fps with a 35 gr. Hornady. He's not going to get 4400 fps from a 223 using any 35 grain bullet - safely.

Actually I was hoping Seafire would respond to this and clarify it. The way it is written in the reply to the post - "Re: For P. Dogs and Gophers and the ,223 what wt. bullet!!" - it appears to be in reference to a 223 with the 35 gr NTX getting 4400 fps. I was would like to know if that was a typo or if it was in reference to some other cartridge achieving that velocity with the 35 gr NTX. I do not see anything in any manuals suggesting more than 3900 fps out of a 223 using a 35 gr bullet.

Going back to Seafire's post on page 1 he wrote about the 22/250 but in reference to 40 and 53 gr bullets, I expect that he may have meant to say he was getting 4400 fps out of a 22/250 and the 35 gr bullets. Hopefully he will read this and clear it up.

drover

So you are essentially testifying you have tried to see what might be the max velocity obtainable, personally...

or are you going to use the old campfire tried and trued excuse of " I'm smart enough to know that it is physically impossible... and if someone does, it can't possibly be safe".. is that what you are telling us, instead of telling us you've personally never really tried to see what the max velocity might be? Therefore, just making a guess?

I'll share load data with folks I trust and respect on here.... not naythesayers acting like they are smarter than most other folks on here....

No I'm not quoting Hornady... another ASS-UMPTION on your part...

Have YOU ever even worked with a 35 grain NTX?

or a 24 grain NTX in 20 caliber?

Poor fellow.

I think you're right. He probably meant to say that, but had a senior moment. Now he's trying to deflect his misstep by barking at me. A toothless dog. Too bad he's so full of anger that he cannot stick with the subject at hand.

FWIW, Hornady MAX data with the 35gr. NTX for the 223 is 600 fps. slower than 4400 fps....

Wrong again Snowflake....

Might be full of chuckling at you....

hey ya don't wanna believe it, then don't....

pretty simple concept...

but it shows... you've never worked with that bullet, and you've never tried to see what potential max velocity might be with it, have ya....

thought so...

223, 35 NTX, Ruger 77 VT

Then there is faster velocities out of a 22.250...

Ruger 77 Mk 2, in 22.250.... 35 NTX Hornady






And to think I survived working up these loads...

and the Ruger survived..

and the Brass survived to be used multiple reloads...

yeah a little hands on experience goes a lot further than just philosophizing about handloading
or Regurgitating what you might read in some load manual... when you look at a load manual
do you pay attention to what pressure they might say is max load?
or maybe you might even be thinking that this is a powder that might be listed in your load manual info?

decisions, decisions, decisions...

There you go. If you could manage to stop being so hateful, and explain yourself, things would be better for you.

Just so you know, I do not believe that the picture of a chrono displaying 4417 fps was a 223 reading. Have fun.

Steve,

Go to your room.

The adults are talking.

One thing for sure, The water in Southern Oregon has to be tested. One would have to wonder how 2 rifles got blown up loading H335.

At least you got a few answers. It sounds like you have an excuse to order some more 40 gr. VMaxes and start testing. Not that you need an excuse to go shooting.

WCH, since I don’t have many places to dog shoot my favorites are 50-52 and 55’s for the 223. 3500 for 50, 3450 for 52’s and close to 3400 w/55’s using Benchmark and 24” tube is easily attainable and all the velocity needed for yotes.
If I need more velocity I jump to a 22.250 or a 220 Swift.
The only time I played with 40’s was to see how fast I could push them. They were accurate enough and helped me finish off that Swift barrel, since rebarreled I have not had the urge to see if I could bust that 4500 w/26” tube instead of 24.

Steve Redgwell, as I said published data for 556 gets damn close to his velocity’s as I myself have no desire at this time to load that hot, I can’t say that it’s impossible w/26” or longer tube. According to Cooper I wasn’t supposed to be getting 4050 out of a 24” tube with a 52 and 1/2 grain under max w/2700 but I did. So again I can’t say for certain that 4400 is impossible.

Thanks Swifty.

I would have to see evidence of the 35 gr. Hornady bullet managing 4400 fps or more safely. I'm afraid a picture of a chronograph screen doesn't do it for me.

One of 2 things, a broken chronograph or not a 223...

Everyone, thanks for the help.

Since were talking a 223 here, the hottest Accurate powder 35-36 gr. load hits 3,900 and change. The 30 shows 4,000. There's also the freebore there in the 5.56 we're not even taking into consideration, if it's being used as a benchmark for 223 loads.

We both know it probably isn't something we'd want repeatedly in front of our faces as a primary PD load in July, since 2200 isn't known for being real consistent in a hot chamber.

I've got a friend that had 40 grain loads that clocked 3,800 several times out of his K-Hornet without hurting even the cases or having "normal" pressure signs, but it wasn't a "hey, look at this" moment, at least not for us...I guess I should have taken a picture of it!

Oh for crying out loud.
I've used both 35 and 40 VMs, alongside 40 Blitz Kings, and that weight is "efficient" and versatile in a 223 when the target is "gophers and prairie dogs."
One can run gopher loads (Blue Dot, or anything that Seafire has cooked up otherwise) out to 200 yards with all three bullets, maybe 250 (I'm a rotten shot), The advantage is, barrels run much cooler when the shooting is really good.
A bit more, I make up "full house" loads with either of the 40s. Those work great out to 300/350, but your rate of fire will be slower.
Then, if there's wind, I have loads at 50, 55, and 60 grains, or if I'm after whistle pigs or coyotes I want a larger bullet.

Bottom line, I have five different good loads I rely on in the 223, they are like irons in the golf bag depending on how far, and the rate of shooting/opportunity, plus the size of the quarry. In this case, the 40s will serve best.

the 53 V max is the most logical 224 cal p/dog boolit out there

fast & flat & very explosive.......2nd in line would be the flat base 53 gr Noz Varmegedon

Just ask Seafire............

You've had success with the 53 gr. VMax then. It's always nice to read about someone who has found a magic load. That also gives you an excuse to keep experimenting to find if it can be improved. Another powder. A different bullet. Etc.

.53 V Max , 25 grains of H 322, Remington VLS in 223 Rem.

100 yds, scope power 8X... 3 shot group.

dammmmmmmmm

atta boy Seafire..........

Rem 700 ?????????????????????????????

Before anyone sees Seafire's post and actually tries to duplicate those ridiculous velocities, they should read through the linked posts below, and see just what kind of crazy we're dealing with:

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13232658/1

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbthreads/ubbthreads.php/topics/13233126/1

So Goats....

Are you now taking a new position,

or are you complaining I down load something and "leave 600 fps on the table"

or are you complaining now I load something too fast.." that data is 600 fps over max book load listed by XXX source"

or are you researching info on me so you can do one of those Bill Reilly type Books " Killing Japan or "Killing the SS".... so you're going to call it " Killing Seafire"?

I should feel so honored.... didn't know I was being stalked.. especially by say... Prairie Oats...

Since you are so high and mighty, and perfect, please feel free to fire away....

There is a small group on here that love a good Character Assassination attempt...

Show us all your true character...and reasons to be here.

Seafire,
I say this with all sincerity: There are folks out there who can help.
Here’s the National Alliance on Mental Health’s Oregon Helpline - 800-343-6264.
Give them a call. They’ll point you in the right direction of much needed treatment.

Damn the panties are getting bunched up a lot on the fire. Cant we all just get along

WoW 'Oats....I am really touched by your concerns and your "sincerity"...

Feel free to call my mobile phone and we can discuss this...

You can reach me at 202.456.1411.

I look forward to your call...if you reach my receptionist, tell her you are calling for Don...

I'm gonna stay out of the previous donnybrook and say that my favorite .223 load is 26.0 Benchmark and any of the 50gr. plastic-tipped bullets. That load is a half-grain under book max, shoots well in a half-dozen rifles I've owned over the years. I normally use the Federal 205M primer, but that load works. I tend to favor the V-Max bullets, or the Sierra BlitzKings. Price is always a factor for me, especially with volume shooting.
Benchmark works, burns fairly cleanly, doesn't bridge in a powder measure, and is easy to work with.

50 or 53gr V-Max for windy days and 40gr V-Max for still days. 40's really bust a p-dog, especially inside 150yrds.