What is the procedure for settling a dispute for a defective firearm purchased from the classified section of this site? I purchased two from an individual here a few weeks ago. First one (12 ga. pump) wouldn't fire because the trigger was rusted & frozen, but soaked it in Kroil overnight and broke it loose. Second one is a break open single shot 12 ga. (with auto ejector) that won't eject a fired hull, which has to be pushed out with a cleaning rod. Tried soaking overnight but didn't help. This seller obviously listed & sold two firearms without checking them for proper function. I contacted the seller, he said to return it to him after he sent me the receiving FFL name & address. He never did this, has now removed himself from the conservation in the PM section, won't answer a phone call, or reply to a text message, but shows up on this site daily. I explained this to RickBin but he didn't reply.

Sounds like a poor-quality seller if he won't honestly try to make it right. Mistakes happen, but communication and willingness to fix things (within reason) are important if you want a decent reputation as a seller. Stuff like this also has a propensity to happen with older, lower-priced firearms in low-grade condition, and similar events might unfold in buying such items at a gunshow or pawnshop.

Edited to add that my mention of "within reason" above is often the sticking point in situations like this. Perhaps a local gunsmith could get the auto-ejector working for cheap? In such instances, I've seen seller refund a portion of the sales price to cover something like that. Make it simple. Along those lines, if a seller hasn't test-fired anything, they should likely say so in the advertisement. That's the fair thing to do.

See the " Buyer Beware" sticky

Were they misrepresented in for sale ad? We all know there is some risk in buying anything used. Curious if advertised as known good condition or some such?
If so and seller non responsive I’d say let all know who the offender is. If not misrepresented and sold used as is sometimes we take an L and make best of it

Honestly not much you can do if the seller is not open with his dealings. The best is to mention the seller so that we can all be aware not to deal with such a guy. I for one would like to know because I buy occasionally here.
Good Luck to you.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbt...18672312/re-2-guns-for-sale#Post18672312

Thanks Portside, I have placed USER on ignor list

There is no procedure for this site or quite frankly any other site that is not a commercial site for the sales of goods. Sites like Ebay, or Gunbroker, or Guns International might have guidelines for settling a dispute. This sites classified are nothing more than an electronic version of a newspaper's Classifieds. You are responsible for your pre-purchase due diligence and resolving any disputes thru your own process.

Give a negative review so we can beware.
Based on his profile and join date, he should be legit, over 4000 posts and 2009 join date if I read it right.
Hope it works out.

What I would do........just find a gunsmith and get them repaired. IMO, you got them both fairly reasonable, not a steal but fair. Its pretty obvious the seller isn't gonna be any help. May as well suck it up and get them fixed and just live with it. Don't mean to sound like a jerk but you don't have a lot of options.

Seems like this one is on the buyer. Seller's ad seems to indicate he had no knowledge of condition or operation since they came from wife's grandfather's estate. He didn't represent them to be anything other than make/model. To me, they were purchased 'as is'.

I was surprised at how little is at stake. I would not have had high hopes.

In all fairness, the first at $165 shipped is like $130 price, and the second at $235 shipped is like $200 price, and he practically offered to take less.

"This seller obviously listed & sold two firearms without checking them for proper function."

He never said he did? He did say they weren't his and alluded he didn't know much about them?...Tom

Let the buyer beware.....
A little more work and they'll be fine.
Put the seller on ignore......

^^^Seconded

Are you sure the Steven's has an ejector and not an extractor?
If you had to push the empty out with a cleaning rod, is the chamber rusty/gunked up?
Does the "ejector" function properly when dry fired?
165.00 I, myself wouldn't expect much of a gun......
Good luck
Ed

There are always multiple takes on a story. I know this seller (Winchester88) and have let him know what's going on here. He's a good guy so if everyone would not hop on the pile and give him a chance to make this right or deal with/get in touch with the buyer I'm sure it will get sorted out.

The tough part about selling guns unknown to me, etc. I inspect them as if I was buying them, but at that price range, not every seller is going to do that.

$200 is a lot to some folks and ashtray change to others.

No good deed and all that….

I don’t see malice here.

Seems like the seller could have put a disclaimer on the ad stating he had no direct knowledge of the functioning of the firearms. I certainly wouldn't ever post something that had a trigger so rusty that it wouldn't work unless I mentioned that in the ad.

I would have to agree with this question. No mention is made in the ad as to ejector, and alot of what I have seen are extractors. A sticking case could very well be a gummed up chamber. My guess is, they were utilitarian guns that grandad had in the closet that just didn't see much use. It is clearly stated in the ad that he really knew nothing about them and was just pushing them down the road.

I don't recall having bought anything from winchester88, but I do know he's a regular around here. If he had something up for grabs, I wouldn't be afraid to go on it. My take is, mossberg is now up and rolling with a little soaking. The single, I question it being an auto eject, but I don't know what any pm conversations were. It certainly wasn't advertised as such. With the prices, and costs of shipping anymore, id rather do a little work than go through the pia of sending it back, but thats just me maybe.

Look at the sellers history.
A real Classified Cowbow.

Paged through over a dozen pages of his history going way back.
Not a single post outside the classifieds, not even his first.


That's not reason for a noose, but It carries a certain smell.

Why? If a person spends their time on the classifieds and doesn’t dive into the other forums that’s zero reason to suspect anyone. If all of their classified posts have poor feedback that’s one thing, but just using the site different than you use it isn’t cause for concern by itself.

I bought a Leupold from him (that cost more than either of those rifles) and all was fine....Tom

The seller has 4,200 posts - apparently all of them in the classifieds. He should have enough experience to know the importance of using greater detail in his post.

👍 +1

Agree. Have done business with him in the past. Zero issues.

In the future, worth asking about function/condition if it isn't listed in the ad...

I'm not here to DIS anyone, but so what, I spend a good deal of my time on here in the classifieds! Do I make comments else where, sure, but, im always looking here. I spose what I have to wonder is, the op posted this, but has not responded to any thoughts. Maybe busy, maybe not, I dunno. I guess I just struggle with the fact that the ad stated he didn't know anything about them and was just looking to unload them. Ya get what ya get I guess. Would I have cycled the Mossberg and pulled the the trigger, probably. Would I have done what the op did to make it work, yep! Would I have taken the Steven's out and shot it, no, I wouldn't have if I had no interest and wanted to move it, it was described as he knew it imho, purchased were two utilitarian guns that needed a little work, big deal

Here is the actual ad:

I have a couple guns that were left when my wife’s grandfather passed away a few months back. Just looking to part with them. I honestly don’t know what they are worth so if my prices are to high please let me know through a pm. No need to blow up the post. Just looking to sell them and get what they might be worth.
#1 A break action 12 gauge made by Springfield J Stevens Company. Gun is in ok shape asking $165.00 shipped
#2 A 12 gauge pump shotgun.500k Mossburg takes 2 3/4. Not in bad shape. Asking $235.00 shipped.
If anyone wants pictures please pm me. If anyone know about these and me price is high please pm me

He stated he didn't know their worth.
He stated the break open was in ok shape.
He stated the pump was not in bad shape.
He never stated he didn't know about the guns. He just didn't know about the pricing.


Is there anyone here who does not check out a new to them firearm? We know the guns are in need of TLC. The pump is up and running. Sounds like the Stevens may need the chamber cleaned out and the extractor oiled up and freed if stuck. Maybe the extractor will work then.

There is no way I would have sold these guns without mentioning these problems and now he is ignoring the OP. Not a good way to run your business.


Jim

Good afternoon Everyone,
I’m. Not here to try and defend myself in anyway, or comment on anything written about me . The gentleman that purchase the shotguns is going to return the stevens and get his money back.
I will text him a copy off the ffl.

Thank you

Scott

Why did it take this thread to get you to do the right thing?

Says the Classified Cowboy.

Ask him one more time nicely to resolve the issue privately. If he refuses, then post his name and the whole ordeal right here.

You couldn't have paid me $300.00 to take those POS.

I have a full time job. I don’t live on the forums. Any more questions you wants answered?

Personally, I'd try to work out a small refund 20-30+- bucks? Or? Rather than another 30-40 bucks in shipping on a 100.00+- gun.
Seem reasonable?

Again, tell me the problem with that? I’ll happily admit I spend all my time in the classifieds here. The straight talk sections of the forum tend to be nothing but whining and crying drivel, so why would I spend time over there?

BS, you’ve posted over 60 times since this sale but you couldn’t make it right till you were called out here.

BS answer. You’ve got 4k posts in the classifieds, so you know how things work. OP says you won’t return messages and removed yourself from the PM conversation. You should have made this right without arm twisting.

You all don't know the whole story here or the entire timeline. You would be well served to drop it. Winchester88 is handling it and doesn't deserve to be skewered here by anyone.

Says the other Classified Cowboy

Agreed, very bad form, and a pathetic excuse. Not anyone I ever care to do business with, and I hope nobody else does either. To ignore we go.

I'm wondering if the buyer ever asked if the were functional? Doesn't some responsibility to do 'due diligence' fall on the buyer as well?

Go cry in you're beer. I comment where I want and when I want. And I do so in and out of the classifieds.

Clue us in on “the whole story” and “the timeline”. Enlighten us. His BS explanation doesn’t hold water so why don’t you clarify the situation for all of us?

If the seller does not assist in a win/win resolution, I would post his name so the rest of us can make an informed decision about dealing with him. While these don’t appear to be premium guns, they’re not in operating order and the seller should have stated that. His not knowing that they were defective is an BS excuse, that I would not believe.
I’ve bought and sold here quite a bit and never saw the need to state when selling or ask when buying “does it function.”

Perhaps you should address the OP. He appears to be online now. I say this is between him and Winchester88. I don't owe you an explanation. But I can assure you you don't know everything.

Holy [bleep], you'd think with 4000 posts all you classified detectives would know he was a crooked SOB!!!. Someone handed me two guns that I had no interest in id have stuck them in the corner and sold them. Frankly, I wouldn't have even wasted my time with shipping them on the fire. I'd have found someone in my little home town and sold them there. I got no dog in this fight, but this is plucking stupid. I don't think the Steven's was an ejector, it was an extractor, but who cares??? You ain't that much faster either way. Soak the chamber, run a brush and see what happens. Looks like 88 is willing to take it back, but for say 40 bucks in shipping and the pia of boxing it up?? I have better schitt to do with my time over a buck and a quarter.

I put a lot more trust in someone who has over 4000 posts in the Classifieds than I do the trolls up in the Hunters Campfire who only post there.

For fugks sake, it’s Friday. It’s a couple ole beater guns. OP should do a more thorough job and possibly buyer may ask questions next time.

Agreed. The guys who sit on the campfire all day just seem to be cancerous whenever they leave the fire for a different subforum

I would say the seller was disingenuous. He did state a condition but made no mention of a mechanical issue. If it was oversight on his part he should have been communicating to make things right. Unfortunately it took being called out here for him to respond to the buyer.
Its a sad day when you cant trust someone with thousands of posts.

PM sent

I do understand communicating, don't get me wrong. I try to describe as best as I can, and I've always been told its better than expected, but... I'm not gonna waste my time running out and shooting two guns that were sitting in a closet for 50 years, or however long, that have no interest to me. Around here, you can buy a mossberg 500 for about 150 if you look, and a stevens ss for about 100, just the way it is. Shotguns are a dime a dozen!

Maybe its just me, but based on the ad, I assumed he didn't mess with either of them.

Yeah.

Just me looking at the whole transaction I think I would have let the seller know the condition he sold them for his own information, and for the cost of the deal and return shipping I would just suck it up, kroil the shidt out of them and try to make them work and be done with it.

If you sell a gun on here, or any other piece of man made mechanical inventions, you should state as to it's in working condition or not. If you advertise that it works as it's supposed to, and it doesn't, then you're at fault and the buyer has every right to have their money refunded in full, along with the right to warn others about the seller.

However, if you advertise that same item and say you know nothing about it, and am selling it "as is", then anyone who buys it is doing so at their risk. If that buyer doesn't like what they bought, then any blowing off steam about the deal should happen in private, not on an open forum.

Not taking sides here, but when something is advertised in okay condition, that does imply that it works. I don't think the seller was trying to cheat anyone, I just think he should have been a little more definitive as to the condition.

EXACTLY!!! He did not state one way or the other, I dont see any reason to crucify someone over 390.00 bucks, and thats the most, what went on in PMs? This is dumb, and I've been sucked into it. Regardless of whether or not posts are in the classifieds or not it don't take long here for a crook to be brought out. Thats a good thing, but I guess I'd like to see all the haters point it out to me. Maybe ill change my position, but as it sits right now, ill read 88's ad, if I have questions ill ask, if I want it, I'll take it and deal with it. Yes, if someone lies, thats worth being called out on, can't see it over this puddle azz amount, and it ain't worth shipping.

I'm at a point who really cares

I can't wait for hunting season.

Winner!

I'd ask the seller to send me a few bucks and keep the Stevens. Its a single shot, can't be much wrong with it. Saw the barrel off a little and stick it in the bedroom or the back of the truck. Might come in handy one day. No reason for all this hate and discontent. It won't be the first or last time you get screwed on a used gun.

I would agree up to the point the seller got back to him offering a way to make it right then didn't follow through and ghosted him. That part isn't cool

It's no help to you but my method, assuming I am the seller is, if the buyer's not happy upon receipt, they ship it back on their dime an I give them a full refund.

Not to pick a fight gdc2; but, post count doesn't mean squat. Some of the biggest A-holes on this forum have some of the highest post counts and I wouldn't trust them any further than I could throw then. Some of the best guys on the forum have the highest post counts also. Post count doesn't mean squat without looking into the nature of their posts. Here's where I climb off of my high horse and do my Homer Simpson back into the bushes with my apologies to my fellow A-holes.

Fairly reasonable.


But, I can't imagine wanting that crap. LOL

I'm with this guy.

You buy old beater guns, ol' beater guns come with ol' beater gun problems.

This^ "Grandpa's guns" was just a crooked sales pitch.

Surprising what gets a pass on "the fire" and what gets flamed. Crooks, liars and cheats should draw more ire than they do here.

There’s not much to say. He never said they function. He inherited them. He wants them gone. I don’t know the PM’s back and forth, but if the direct questions weren’t asked then he’s really at no fault. I think a small money deal is easy to not asking direct questions and not worry….until it is. Bummer but the seller should either say as is and I’m not fixing, have a nice day or take em back. One or the other. I learned a lesson here a long time ago that didn’t go public, but it pissed me off.

What ever happened to the 3 day inspection period that used to be standard ?

I agree, this is the best advice..........

Shipping prices and more FFLs refusing to accept from non-FFLs (AKA more fees per transaction) make this a more expensive proposition than it used to be...

My man with 17 posts and 2 months in the saddle wants to ride into town and play the classifieds sheriff.

First guy should have said “ Don’t know if they work”
Second guy should have asked” Do they work”.
Neither one did and first guy made it right.

Here's what I tell people when I advertise a gun for sale.........examine it as soon as you get it, immediately, and if you find something that I misrepresented about the gun, in other words that I was not truthful about, then tell me that you don't want it, put it back in the box and send it back to me and I'll refund you your money. But, if you get the gun and there's nothing wrong with it, and then you decide that you just don't want it for whatever the reason, then sorry, I won't take it back.

I don't like letting someone that I don't know take a gun I sold them, keep it for 3 days or even more, shoot it and do whatever they want to to it, then say they want their money back. I know people who have done just that.

This was my thoughts as well. There are clues in the listing that would have made me ask a bunch of questions if I were interested. They were cheap guns. They break. Fix'em and move on.

Once the ffl transfer paperwork is done , it is yours. Examine it closely before filling out the paperwork.

Off to IGNORE for you

+1

🤣🤣

No fight here, I agree totally with what you said, what I did not like was the drop off in communication prior to this thread. Not a big deal but I feel we are fortunate to have such an active classieds section and would not want anything to jepordise that.

Caveat Emptor

I'm certain it's someone's sock puppet.

YeeeeHaaaa! LOL

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
TA DA !!!

It's as if he's been here before...........

He made it right. After he got called out. He was 100% wrong. Period. Right is right. Let's say I got a case of ammo to sell. They were in my garage when the hurricane hit and were underwater a couple of days. I want to get rid of them because I don't trust them. According to some of you guys I am good to go if the buyer doesn't ask me if the ammo is OK. REALLY??? It is always up to the seller to make the buyer aware of any problems because you can bet your sweet a$$ the seller is aware of any problems. When you buy from me you don't have to ask BS questions about whether it works or not. My reputation means more to me than any amount I could screw you out of. I give a 3 day inspection on firearms. I pay for all return costs if I misrepresented the item. ALL COSTS. Sheesh!!!!

Now there are those saying that he made it right so it is no big deal. Yeah, he made it right after he was called out in public. Maybe you didn't read the part where the seller quit replying to the buyer. I can assure you of this.........I will never buy from this guy and I now know several others I won't buy from either. It sure makes you appreciate the good guys on here (which are the vast majority).

Jim

Ditto.

Jim