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Hi, I recently purchased a gun from a man who appearantly didn't know it was stolen. He supposedly bought it from a pawn shop, advertised it online and sold it to ME (of course). I have about 500 in the gun. It was transferred through my FFL when he shipped it to me. He emails me and tells me a government agent will contact me in regards to recovery.
Many questions:
1. Am I in trouble?
2. How can I get my money back if the seller doesn't cooperate?
3. What happens next?

Thanks everyone for your advice.
Ouch!

That really sucks.

I'm interested to hear what folks say about this.

IIRC if you bought it in good faith I do not believe you will be held criminally liable.

Your money? Who knows.
Get with your local PD and have them get involved to work to start a pay back process.
I wouldnt worry too bad,sounds like all you did was receive stolen property. Most likely the guy you bought it from will refund your money.
You won't get in trouble UNLESS you knew it was stolen,small claims court if the seller doesn't cooperate and lastly, I would make sure it was a goverment agent you are sending too, not just a scammer...
i had this happen to me locally. i bought a pistol from an guy i know.turns out he stole it from his father.police came and took the pistoland gave me information on how to get my money back. and no ,if you did not know it was stolen.chris
File off the serial number and place in your gun safe and play dumb laugh
Originally Posted by 10ring1
Hi, I recently purchased a gun from a man who appearantly didn't know it was stolen. He supposedly bought it from a pawn shop, advertised it online and sold it to ME (of course). I have about 500 in the gun. It was transferred through my FFL when he shipped it to me. He emails me and tells me a government agent will contact me in regards to recovery.
Many questions:
1. Am I in trouble?
2. How can I get my money back if the seller doesn't cooperate?
3. What happens next?

Thanks everyone for your advice.


DO NOT call the police until you first talk to an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction!! You need to know what your risks are, along with your obligations!

If you call the PD, you may be placing yourself at their mercy--and what if they have none?

Call the attorney and get advice as to how to best do the right thing.
Lose the gun!!
$500 will be less than your attorney fees
Originally Posted by Hairtrigger
Lose the gun!!
$500 will be less than your attorney fees
Yep-if you have to pay a lawyer you will lose BIG TIME!!
You purchased the gun legally through an FFL. I honestly dont think anything lands on you, but cover your 6 just in case. Ask a lawyer friend if you can.
There is always time for lawyers later. Contact the folks in line and ask each to pay back the funds. If they refuse they are the ones in trouble both in the eyes of the DOJ and the courts.
It does not cost you much to go to court to sue for funds and cost of court. Collection on the other hand can take a lot of effort and time and may eventually not be worth the effort.
Frank
See if the PD can help you recover your money. If not move on and forget about the $500. The lawyer is going to take you for more IME...
Originally Posted by 10ring1

1. Am I in trouble?
2. How can I get my money back if the seller doesn't cooperate?
3. What happens next?


1. You're not in trouble.
2. If the seller doesn't cooperate, you'll have to sue him. Whatever "agent" is involved in recovery will no doubt follow the paper trail back and try to find the one who stole the gun in the first place.

It would, by the way, be pretty dumb to "lose the gun" since it's already established that you received it. That would get you into trouble.
I own a pawn shop and have had this happen a few times. first of all it is not that big of a deal. You will be fine no trouble for you. I would not do anything till they contact you sometimes they don't if the charges get dropped or they are just being lazy they will never come get it from you. If the owner of the gun does not push it the leo will forget about it. Remember you did nothing wrong so you will be fine. If they want the gun give it to them. Make sure you have a record of you giving it to them they will probably lose it lol. It is not as big a deal as you think it is, it happens everyday. You will not get your money back you can try but you will spend 2000.00 to get your 500.00 Unless the guy you bought it from is truly on the up and up and pays you. Small claims court is a joke. Good luck and don't lose sleep over it.
Call the ATF and they will likely send you your money and then some and have you send the gun to an undisclosed address in Mexico.

In all seriousness, the local PD is not a bad option. your state may have laws against possesion of stolen firearms, regardless of what the DOJ or other TLA agency might think. better off coming clean and losing 500$ than losing your rights as a gun owner.

In preperation for the future please be prepared to be waitlisted by the FBI on all future background checks. you'll likely have a flag moving forward at no fault of your own it sounds.

Best of luck to you man and let us know how it turns out.
Originally Posted by Grumulkin
Originally Posted by 10ring1

1. Am I in trouble?
2. How can I get my money back if the seller doesn't cooperate?
3. What happens next?


1. You're not in trouble.
2. If the seller doesn't cooperate, you'll have to sue him. Whatever "agent" is involved in recovery will no doubt follow the paper trail back and try to find the one who stole the gun in the first place.

It would, by the way, be pretty dumb to "lose the gun" since it's already established that you received it. That would get you into trouble.


I'm with this guy 100 percent.
You are not in trouble. You bought it in good faith and not knowing.
The local police have nothing to do with you getting your money back!
You are not likely to get any money back from the seller. Actually everyone down the line would have to go back to the pawn shop. And he is not likely to reimburse you.
Calling a lawyer is even dumber than telling the police to get your money back. That will only cost you more money and make the $500 seem like it was very cheap.
If you bought it from a listing on Gunbroker they may reimburse you some.
Don't even think of "losing it" like someone said. That WILL get you arrested. Then the $500 will look very cheap compared to the lawyer fees and fines, etc. Paperwork already shows that you had possession.

Best of luck to you on this. Just be glad it wasn't more expensive.
Originally Posted by 10ring1
Hi, I recently purchased a gun from a man who appearantly didn't know it was stolen. He supposedly bought it from a pawn shop, advertised it online and sold it to ME (of course). I have about 500 in the gun. It was transferred through my FFL when he shipped it to me. He emails me and tells me a government agent will contact me in regards to recovery.


The italicized part is where you lost me.

It was shipped, then transferred through an FFL?

And when he called in the background check, it was cleared to transfer?

If stolen, I would think it would've been caught at that point in the process. If not, you and the gun were cleared through a background check. So, you should be in the clear, even if they do come get the gun.

Something though just isn't adding up... The seller contacted you that it was stolen? How does he know?
Originally Posted by crow_sniper
Originally Posted by Hairtrigger
Lose the gun!!
$500 will be less than your attorney fees
Yep-if you have to pay a lawyer you will lose BIG TIME!!


I second that
Originally Posted by salty444
Originally Posted by crow_sniper
Originally Posted by Hairtrigger
Lose the gun!!
$500 will be less than your attorney fees
Yep-if you have to pay a lawyer you will lose BIG TIME!!


I second that


Wrong answer, x2.

I disagree. Small claims works. Has for my wife and I a few times so far. Matter of fact, have small claim trial on monday the 16,th




Originally Posted by Gobble
I own a pawn shop and have had this happen a few times. first of all it is not that big of a deal. You will be fine no trouble for you. I would not do anything till they contact you sometimes they don't if the charges get dropped or they are just being lazy they will never come get it from you. If the owner of the gun does not push it the leo will forget about it. Remember you did nothing wrong so you will be fine. If they want the gun give it to them. Make sure you have a record of you giving it to them they will probably lose it






lol. It is not as big a deal as you think it is, it happens everyday. You will not get your money back you can try but you will spend 2000.00 to get your 500.00 Unless the guy you bought it from is truly on the up and up and pays you. Small claims court is a joke. Good luck and don't lose sleep over it.
Originally Posted by ColdBore
And when he called in the background check, it was cleared to transfer?

If stolen, I would think it would've been caught at that point in the process. If not, you and the gun were cleared through a background check. So, you should be in the clear, even if they do come get the gun.
A NICS check focuses on the buyer's eligibility to possess a firearm, not the firearm's status.

It is likely the pawn shop's records were reviewed and a firearm that passed through their possession showed to be stolen in a database. They then produced a record of its disposition and that person then turned the investigators on to the gun's current owner.
I got to go with "Coldbore" on this one. Something don't add up. If it was me I would go back to the FFL that did the transfer--have him inquire of the FFL at the pawn shop. This rifle has cleared the hurdles "Twice". For an un-known "internet person"to contact you, rather than the authorities, just seems to raise the hackles a bit. Ya might not want to take everything at face value on this deal--has an odor to it,
G
Originally Posted by gkdir
I got to go with "Coldbore" on this one. Something don't add up. If it was me I would go back to the FFL that did the transfer--have him inquire of the FFL at the pawn shop. This rifle has cleared the hurdles "Twice". For an un-known "internet person"to contact you, rather than the authorities, just seems to raise the hackles a bit. Ya might not want to take everything at face value on this deal--has an odor to it,
G
What "hurdles?" Where are you getting this horseshit? The pawn shop received the firearm from wherever and reported its receipt. No one contacted the pawn shop until after they disposed of it. The current buyer filled out a BATFE form 4473 and had a NICS check conducted on HIM -- not his gun.
Funny.

I tried to buy a rifle a few years back at a pawn shop. The background check was taking a while, so the guy said "Go get some lunch and give me a call when you're done to see if it came through by then".

So I do. He tells me "Uh, you need to come back in here....".

My first thought was Hell No, not if the cops are waiting for me! laugh

When I get back, he tells me that *I* am fine, but the rifle had come up stolen. The police were on their way to pick it up.

Regardless, I still say the poster here should be fine. If somebody is intentionally and knowingly going to buy a stolen firearm, I'd think that the LAST thing they would do is transfer it through an FFL, leaving a solid paper trail to connect them to the gun.
Originally Posted by ColdBore
Funny.

I tried to buy a rifle a few years back at a pawn shop. The background check was taking a while, so the guy said "Go get some lunch and give me a call when you're done to see if it came through by then".

So I do. He tells me "Uh, you need to come back in here....".

My first thought was Hell No, not if the cops are waiting for me! laugh

When I get back, he tells me that *I* am fine, but the rifle had come up stolen. The police were on their way to pick it up.

Regardless, I still say the poster here should be fine. If somebody is intentionally and knowingly going to buy a stolen firearm, I'd think that the LAST thing they would do is transfer it through an FFL, leaving a solid paper trail to connect them to the gun.
That was coincidental to your NICS check. Pawn shops receive firearms and report their receipt to the BATFE. The BATFE gets back to them whenever. In your case the BATFE contacted the shop during the transfer.

There's not any special "mojo" that goes on when you buy a firearm from a pawn shop. The standard NICS check goes through at the federal level as with ALL FFLs plus whatever state bullshit is present. Which is not much in PA.
Originally Posted by Redbone311
Originally Posted by Grumulkin
Originally Posted by 10ring1

1. Am I in trouble?
2. How can I get my money back if the seller doesn't cooperate?
3. What happens next?


1. You're not in trouble.
2. If the seller doesn't cooperate, you'll have to sue him. Whatever "agent" is involved in recovery will no doubt follow the paper trail back and try to find the one who stole the gun in the first place.

It would, by the way, be pretty dumb to "lose the gun" since it's already established that you received it. That would get you into trouble.


I'm with this guy 100 percent.
You are not in trouble. You bought it in good faith and not knowing.
The local police have nothing to do with you getting your money back!
You are not likely to get any money back from the seller. Actually everyone down the line would have to go back to the pawn shop. And he is not likely to reimburse you.
Calling a lawyer is even dumber than telling the police to get your money back. That will only cost you more money and make the $500 seem like it was very cheap.
If you bought it from a listing on Gunbroker they may reimburse you some.
Don't even think of "losing it" like someone said. That WILL get you arrested. Then the $500 will look very cheap compared to the lawyer fees and fines, etc. Paperwork already shows that you had possession.

Best of luck to you on this. Just be glad it wasn't more expensive.


I agree with most everything said here. Here's my opinion on this.

The only person you can get your money back from is the seller. You have no claims against who he bought it from. If he refunds the money, he in turn has to go after the person or business that sold it to him for whatever amount he paid for it.

Lawyer - nope. For $500.00 it's not worthwhile.

I truly doubt if local police will do anything to help you recover the money. That's not their job. The money end of it is a civil matter. The law enforcement officer invovled might make a suggestion to the seller to reimburse you, but that's as far as he could go with it.

As far as keeping the gun without pursuing this now - nope. It could come back to haunt you later. If you don't hear anything soon, contact the seller and ask for the name and contact info of the law enforcement officer that contacted him.

If the guy won't reimburse you - small claims court. IMO, it'd be a slam dunk as long as you had all the proper paperwork to prove you unknowingly received stolen property. A copy of the ad, canceled check/proof of payment, FFL transfer and a police report detailing the circumstances.

One thing though. Winning in small claims court is not a guarantee that he'll actually pay you. There's other hoops to jump through if he doesn't choke the money up willingly.

edited to add: If the seller doesn't give you the contact info for the law enforcement officer involved ............ I'd be inclined to inquire whether it is stolen property or not with local law enforcement. Keeping a stolen firearm in your possession is not a good idea. I wouldn't want it.
Bricktop is right on this.
There is no magic, no mystery, no "something fishy" BS.
When a FFL does a NICS check to sell/transfer the gun it is done on the BUYER of the gun. Not on the gun at all.
I would not contact law enforcement unless you happen to be feeling generous. I have never come out on a good end when dealing with the Alaska State Troopers on anything, especially when it involved firearms. (One was a gun which my FIL purchased from a fellow; the gun was one which had originally been stolen from me! It was stolen twice IOW.) I would either send the gun back so that it can be handled by law - if that's where they tracked it to, with reimbursement being made prior, or just hang on and wait and see what happens. It's very possible that the seller is trying to pull something shady.
One more thing... IF the original owner filed an insurance claim on this gun and was paid for it, then the insurance company owns it now.
They may be very willing to let you keep the gun if you pay them for whatever amount that they paid out on it. Which may be much less than the $500.
Insurance companies do not want the hassle of owning and reselling property.
And especially if it is firearms. They don't want the paperwork and liability.
You may be cut a very good deal on it.
Try and do a little background investigation on your own or through the police at the originating agency (police department where the gun was reported stolen in the first place)
Good luck to you.
Been a cop for 20+ years and a FFL dealer for 15 years. Bricktop is correct "again".....

And
1. You are not in trouble (unless you knew it was stolen and then purchased)
2. Small claims is best option
3. An officer may come by and pick it up or you may be asked to take it to the nearest police department. I would not ship it...let the police department do that for you. Do not keep it in your possession unless you have the police department check it to see if it has been listed as stolen. Either way I would use your Police Department as a resource.
Small claims works about 75+% of the time.

Just sayin.......

Hope this helps !!!!
Hire the lawyer to update your will and pay him with the gun in trade for services.
I am gaining respect for "Bricktop".

Uniform Commercial Code covers this,(precedent law).

As long as you did not knowingly receive the stolen property you will be fine.

As stated earlier, worse case you are out the $500.
Bricktop is spooky but right on this time. grin

Suggest that prior to releasing the gun you receive from the seizing police agency. 1. Copy of the org theft report. 2. Signed departmental receipt for the gun from the seizing officer.

You will need these to aid in regaining your money, esp if you end up in small claims court. GW
If the seller has any reservations about coughing up the $500 I'd remind him that holding you to the deal is considerd Trafficing of Stolen Goods, which is likely a felony in your state.
Regardless of the item's value it's a felony here in WA.
Since he claims he didn't know it was stolen it may not stick but for $500 is he willing to risk it?
Good luck
Why is this in the classifieds section?
Strip it down to the naked frame. That's all you have to give back.

Tell everyone to go blow.
Originally Posted by Bricktop
The standard NICS check goes through at the federal level as with ALL FFLs plus whatever state bullshit is present. Which is not much in PA.


It was in TN.
Originally Posted by ColdBore
Originally Posted by Bricktop
The standard NICS check goes through at the federal level as with ALL FFLs plus whatever state bullshit is present. Which is not much in PA.
It was in TN.
The thread author lists his location as PA and so do you, hence my referencing it.
What was the gun? smile
Originally Posted by Bricktop
The thread author lists his location as PA and so do you, hence my referencing it.


We don't have a high fence around our border. wink

(Besides, I lived in TN for about 12 years).

TN uses a state system, not sure if they run the serial number as well as the buyer? Anybody from TN familiar with the system?

I just find it too much of a coincidence that they were randomly told the gun was stolen, separate from my background check at the time of purchase, within that 30-45 minute window.

Could be wrong I guess...
Gentlemen, say the victim of the theft was on vacation when it occurred. The victim may not have been aware of the theft until several days after returning from vacation and who knows how long the vacation could have been. There are other scenarios as well in which a buyer of a stolen gun would have had no way to know the gun was stolen when purchased.
Originally Posted by manydogs
Strip it down to the naked frame. That's all you have to give back.

Tell everyone to go blow.


You mean to tell me that the stocks were not stolen property as well?? Trigger? Sights? Magazine?

That statement makes no sense at all to me....

I would concur with the many others that I would do nothing until contacted unless the seller was willing to return funds and then upon receipt of the funds, I would turn the gun over to local authorities. If contacted, I would want a copy of any and all reports and would likewise want to turn the gun over to local authorities and get a sign transfer receipt. If the homeowner's insurance already paid it out, they may not go after you for it, and the police are not going to do anything if not bugged.

Its not worth a lot of trouble over but I would not go about spending my time and energy trying to figure out how to throw $500 down the toilet... let them come to you and then be thorough but supportive.

I agree with most here. No problems for the seller. You did everything right. The purchase was through an FFL. No risk for owning the firearm. Now the seller on the other hand, should be a little nervous. I think he would willingly refund your money or else legal trouble will find him for selling stolen property.
i don't know if this is the case but have had a like sale happen once. Seller sold me a firearm at a very good price, later told me it was stolen and tried to get it back by giving my money back. Just didn't seem right, so I had a buddy who is on the police force run the number, gun wasn't stolen, seller found out the gun was worth about twice what he sold it to me for and was just trying to renege on the sale.
Originally Posted by Waders


DO NOT call the police until you first talk to an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction!! You need to know what your risks are, along with your obligations!

If you call the PD, you may be placing yourself at their mercy--and what if they have none?


That's the truth. Police are some of the most ignorant people you'll ever meet in regards to proper application of the law. I wouldn't trust any of them with such information without representation.
When I call the BATFE, I give them info on the purchaser. The only info I give about the firearm is whether it is a long gun, handgun, etc.

I call the local pd on all used firearms sold, whether pawned, consigned or store purchased and have them run the numbers before the gun goes out the door. I am not required to do so, but it is easier on me not to sell the gun if it comes up stolen than it would be if I had to help retrieve it.

We have had one issue with a stolen firearm, and it was a pd mistake. The same serial number may appear on numerous firearms. The number came up, and the pd did not ascertain whether the number was on the correct firearm before going to collect it. We had sold the gun, and the shop where the person resold it ran the number with his local pd. The fight is ongoing after about 18 months. People were sued over the wrong recovered firearm.

About ten years ago, I purchased a rifle from a pawn shop. Two years later the pawn shop owner contacted me. The gun had been taken from an older fellow's shop and the loss went unnoticed for quite some time. His grandson was the thief.

The old guy wanted his gun back. I said I would hand it over when the grandson was charged with a crime. No crime, no stolen gun. He would not press charges, and I eventually sold the gun back to him for what I paid. You may be in a similar situation if you have not been contacted by the coppers.


Should the coppers want the gun, make sure that the identifying paperwork they have corresponds to what you possess. A minor difference makes your firearm a different firearm than the one they seek.

Originally Posted by ColdBore
Originally Posted by Bricktop
The thread author lists his location as PA and so do you, hence my referencing it.
We don't have a high fence around our border. wink

(Besides, I lived in TN for about 12 years).

TN uses a state system, not sure if they run the serial number as well as the buyer? Anybody from TN familiar with the system?

I just find it too much of a coincidence that they were randomly told the gun was stolen, separate from my background check at the time of purchase, within that 30-45 minute window.

Could be wrong I guess...
I would imagine the more firearms transactions you're involved in over a lifetime would also equate to more unique situations in which you may find yourself involved.

Could your experience be explained by the pawn shop calling the firearm in and running their standard check on a new inventory item because they had a cash buyer present? Or maybe they hadn't heard anything back from when they turned over their new inventory serial numbers earlier and called to prod the person or office responsible for checking this data for them. Those two scenarios seem most likely. But no, serial number checks aren't part of the NICS process nor are they a requirement in most states as a condition of a sale.

As stated by another poster, firearms thefts aren't always reported when they occur and there isn't any "bat signal" immediately broadcast about a stolen firearm either.
Originally Posted by Reloder28
Originally Posted by Waders
DO NOT call the police until you first talk to an attorney licensed to practice in your jurisdiction!! You need to know what your risks are, along with your obligations!

If you call the PD, you may be placing yourself at their mercy--and what if they have none?
That's the truth. Police are some of the most ignorant people you'll ever meet in regards to proper application of the law. I wouldn't trust any of them with such information without representation.
That and the fact that police aren't empowered nor are they in any way authorized to render a binding legal determination. (Elementary school civics: three branches of government -- legislative, judicial, and executive. Police agencies are part of the executive branch, not the judicial as some would accept.)
Originally Posted by Bricktop
I would imagine the more firearms transactions you're involved in over a lifetime would also equate to more unique situations in which you may find yourself involved.


Makes sense.

And considering I've only ever bought two guns, then I'm at 50%. whistle laugh wink
Wouldnt happen to be a 94 AE in 307 Win would it? Sold one to a member here, it never arrived. That was about Feb 2010, still havent heard anything about it.

+ 1 on talking to a criminal defense attorney and NEVER, EVER talk to a police officer at all, about anything. Let me re-phrase that.... NEVER EVER except in monosylabic answers to be barely polite without saying a WORD about any guns, knowledge etc. This is a best policy at all times and all places unless you are talking your way out of a ticket (good luck) or are goofing off with an LEO who is a freind or relative about non police matters. They can huff, and puff, and threaten, and even promise you that you are not a person of interest but unfortunately they cannot be trusted with such. Have them ask you whatever they want to ask you IN WRITING and or via an attorney. In writing is, by far, he best with a CD attnny preparing and sending your reply. I have been, innocently, on the wrong side of such things twice. Got it resolved, but at much expense and headache as well as wrist ache. Love my Brother in Law who is a PD detective but if he ever asks me a question about some crime somewhere I will tell him that I will talk to him THROUGH an attorney, period. If you never have taken any advice from this site, take THIS nugget.
I recently experienced a similar situation.

I was purchasing a rifle from a person from another forum. Sent money and the rifle was shipped to my FFL. When I went to pick up the rifle, the FFL in my state calls in buyer information and firearm information.

The rifle cam up as stolen. The FFL was instructed to hold the rifle and the local PD would come inspect the rifle. If the rifle matched the stolen gun report, then it would be confiscated.

Turns out the person selling my the rifle, had purchased the rifle used about two years prior through a dealer in North Carolina using all the BATF forms, ect. He had all that documentation and promptly faxed it to me.

The seller was able to work with the dealer he bought the rifle through and reclaim his money.

I did not feel any liablility because I had no idea the rifle was stolen, nor did I receive the rifle. I was only potentially out the money.

It did make me think about buying local without going through an FFL.

Eric


There's another thread up top regarding this.

https://www.24hourcampfire.com/ubbth...w_to_check_collection_for_st#Post5234532
REloader28 don't put us all in the same box as Texas bad Cops...we all know everything is bigger in texas. There are bad cops everywhere but the majority are there to do the right thing.
Thanks for all the great advice everyone. This is in regards to a 10/22 mag from another forum. Thanks and I'll keep everyone updated.
Definitely a bummer. I know a fellow in similar circumstance that had to give his rifle up but the store that sold it to him made good with a replacement. You followed the rules , used a ffl and all so it will be hard to prove you knowingly did anything wrong.Besides they obviously know you purchased the gun from the guy or he wouldn't have given them your name. I would say worst case you will lose your gun. Best case the seller gives you the $ back. If it was covered by the original owners insurance you may inquire about buying the gun from the ins co. and get a decent price.
Originally Posted by Orchemo
I was purchasing a rifle from a person from another forum. Sent money and the rifle was shipped to my FFL. When I went to pick up the rifle, the FFL in my state calls in buyer information and firearm information.

The rifle cam up as stolen. The FFL was instructed to hold the rifle and the local PD would come inspect the rifle. If the rifle matched the stolen gun report, then it would be confiscated.
I'm curious as to what prompted your receiving dealer to check if your purchase was stolen.
I kinda waded through all the "good" advice you received. I was a Deputy Sheriff in Texas for 16 years. Law Enforcement, frankly, won't care if you get reimbursed or not. They're involvement will be recovering the stolen firearm, and then trying to back track it in hopes of finding who stole it. It's really a rarity that stolen items are ever recovered, especially firearms. As far as invoking your 5th amendment rights, and hiring a criminal defense attorney if a peace officer happens to ask if you have the time...well, that's a bunch paranoid-fueled of hooeey.
I am a FFL in TN. We run the Buyer and The firearm. If the firearm has been put in the system as stolen it will be caught right then seen it happen more than once. What probably happened was the gun was tracked down to the pawn shop by law enforcement and not serial numbers. they probably got the crook to tell them who he sold it to and then tracked it to the pawn shop without the gun ever going into the system as stolen as the owner probably did not even have the serial number. By the time the law tracked it to the pawn shop it had already been sold to you.
Well my advice is to contact a lawyer your Trust! Never speak with the police about this at all period.

The firearm will be going back to the original owner (after any criminal case concearning the gun is over) I would be asking the lawyer how to get my money back etc.
Originally Posted by Magnumdood
I kinda waded through all the "good" advice you received. I was a Deputy Sheriff in Texas for 16 years. Law Enforcement, frankly, won't care if you get reimbursed or not. They're involvement will be recovering the stolen firearm, and then trying to back track it in hopes of finding who stole it. It's really a rarity that stolen items are ever recovered, especially firearms. As far as invoking your 5th amendment rights, and hiring a criminal defense attorney if a peace officer happens to ask if you have the time...well, that's a bunch paranoid-fueled of hooeey.


My fancy bracelets, Being bullied once so wearing, NICS slow downs for ten years and steel bed for one night when I was merely in the wrong place at the wrong time and did not know how to play 'the game' were not paranoid hooey! "You have the right to remain silent" means something and is better said, "it is highly advisable to remain totally silent unless in the presence of an attorney representing your interests and rights"

PROBABLY not going to be anywhere like that in this case, just agreeing with others here about a general principle that can save a lot of grief.

Originally Posted by manydogs
Strip it down to the naked frame. That's all you have to give back.

Tell everyone to go blow.


And then call a lawyer - as you will be arrested.

Don't listen to this type of dumb chit. That is called larceny.

By that reasoning you can go rent a car, strip off all the parts and then return the shell.

DUH
Originally Posted by Redbone311
By that reasoning you can go rent a car, strip off all the parts and then return the shell.

DUH
That must be why Enterprise keeps getting mad at me!!! crazy
He said? Don't do anything until you have a FTF with an identified LEO.You have not broken any laws. Don't give up your legally acquired weapon without a receipt!
Originally Posted by Gobble
I am a FFL in TN. We run the Buyer and The firearm. If the firearm has been put in the system as stolen it will be caught right then seen it happen more than once...


Thanks for the explanation Gobble.

See that Bricktop? I'm not crazy! laugh
Originally Posted by ColdBore
Originally Posted by Gobble
I am a FFL in TN. We run the Buyer and The firearm. If the firearm has been put in the system as stolen it will be caught right then seen it happen more than once...
Thanks for the explanation Gobble.

See that Bricktop? I'm not crazy! laugh
Noooooo, the law in Tennessee doesn't state squat about "running" the firearm.

"(4) The gun dealer shall request by telephone that the Tennessee bureau of investigation conduct a criminal history record check on the purchaser and shall provide the following information to the bureau:

(A) The federal firearms license number of the gun dealer;
(B) The business name of the gun dealer;
(C) The place of transfer;
(D) The name of the person making the transfer;
(E) The make, model, caliber and manufacturer's number of the firearm being transferred;"

It states a "criminal history record check on the purchaser" will be conducted, but doesn't state any checks are to be run on the firearms purchased. This mirrors the BATFE form 4473, which asks for the serial number, make, model, description, etc.

http://www.atf.gov/publications/download/p/atf-p-5300-5/atf-p-5300-5-tennessee.pdf
If you want to PM me the make, model, and serial # of the gun along with the state it was bought from. I'll check on it to see if it's stolen or not. I think the whole thing sounds like a scam. If it were reported stolen and it was transferred through your FFL then you would have already been contacted by the police and most likely by the local police face to face. You should be in no trouble and don't strip the gun and get yourself into trouble.. I don't think you need an attorney asyou can show where it came from, some states (NY included) have laws similar to Criminal possession of stolen property. That would be if you knowingly possessed stolen property. At this point in time I would suspect you do not know it is stolen, just told that by someone that is not verified.
Seems to me like a good way to make 500 bucks to sell the gun and have a friend pose as a LEO and ask you to ship it to them...face to face only on that deal with LEO.
Me- Police Investigator, 18 years. I handle most firearm related crimes in my department.. I'm not going to call your local PD to jack you up if it does turn out to be stolen but hopefully I would be able to help you through the process so you wouldn't need to spend any money on an attorney- easy to do. If you want to PM me your # and a good time to call I would talk to you about it. Not every cop is an a-hole but you can run into them for sure, same as you can run into a-holes in any profession.
I'm suspicious about this whole deal and not convinced it's actually stolen..

I would look at this from a little bit different point of view than some that have posted here.

1. This gun may legally belong to someone else. Consider how you would feel if someone else had possession of your property, regardless of how they received it. You would want them to return it. I think it is a moral duty to return that which has been stolen from someone. I hope I would always follow that duty.

2. If the gun is actually stolen, it is evidence in a criminal matter. If you have knowledge that it is stolen you could be charged with possession of stolen property, and if you do anything to it you could be charged with altering evidence in a criminal case. Both very serious crimes.

3. You may sue the seller in small claims court. In most states it is not that difficult to collect on a judgment if the person you sue has some assets or some income. There is usually a list of what may be attached or garnished in the event that the defendant does not voluntarily pay the judgment. But in some states you will have to remove the case to the district court and pay extra fees in order to collect on the judgment.

And yes, I am an attorney.
If so, you forgot some things:

1. The Police are not your friends (have a retired one in the family).
2. Never talk to the police without an attorney present ( have an active one in the family).
3. Police are not evauated by their bosses on how nice they are. Cases cleared and convictions obtained are their primary metrics.

"strip the gun", that gives you some idea of how many idiots can buy a computer without a basic I.Q. test !

Get an attorney, have him/her call BATF and get this resolved.
Bricktop I don't give a crap what it says the only reason it is written like that is because some firearms don't have serial numbers trust me the TBI will ask for the serial number when you call or submit it the know what make and models should have serial numbers when it comes back stolen they send your stores local Leo right then to verify and take the weapon and the records of who it came from
PM sent
Originally Posted by goodiewrench
If so, you forgot some things:

1. The Police are not your friends (have a retired one in the family).
2. Never talk to the police without an attorney present ( have an active one in the family).
3. Police are not evauated by their bosses on how nice they are. Cases cleared and convictions obtained are their primary metrics.

"strip the gun", that gives you some idea of how many idiots can buy a computer without a basic I.Q. test !

Get an attorney, have him/her call BATF and get this resolved.


+1 on all points, WELL SAID throughout.
I am one of several lawyers on the forum but cannot practice in a state other than the one in which I am licensed, ie. where i reside. I am sure there are several lawyers here from virtually every state who would volunteer to help campfire members, I know I would. We just need to create a volunteer list for each state. At $200 an hour, it would not take long to gobble up your $500, but there are those who are passionate about guns and who are willing to help for free. I know how I would feel if my newest toy was taken away after I had scrapped up enough money (not to mention the hell from the wife for buying another gun) and without a refund.

Good luck
Originally Posted by Gobble
Bricktop I don't give a crap what it says the only reason it is written like that is because some firearms don't have serial numbers trust me the TBI will ask for the serial number when you call or submit it the know what make and models should have serial numbers when it comes back stolen they send your stores local Leo right then to verify and take the weapon and the records of who it came from
I would imagine you "don't give a crap what it says," because you're illiterate. It's patently obvious you're too [bleep]*cking stupid to understand what was posted and it's equally obvious you're too [bleep]*cking stupid to even form a coherent reply. (I mean really, what in the hell is that nonsense of the latter part of your post?) But I digress.

Read the f*cking post, dumbass. Read the the f*cking citation of the Tennessee law. It doesn't say a damned thing about checking the serial number and description of the firearm to be sold against a stolen firearms database. It states that the make, model, serial number, and description will be provided to the TBI. PERIOD. This is the same information that is on the BATFE form 4473. The only "check" that appears to be legally required is that of the buyer's legal eligibility to buy and possess a firearm.

All of this leads to the obvious question: are there a large number of stolen firearms in Tennessee that would compel the TBI to check every transaction?

Whatever the case may be, there is no requirement at the federal level that firearms be checked for stolen status as a condition of a transaction, nor is there a requirement in most states. Not even Tennessee.

Read the post before responding with any future idiocy, dumbass.
Posted By: Bricktop Oldmanbitchlady1942 - 05/14/11
Originally Posted by safariman
Originally Posted by goodiewrench
If so, you forgot some things:

1. The Police are not your friends (have a retired one in the family).
2. Never talk to the police without an attorney present ( have an active one in the family).
3. Police are not evauated by their bosses on how nice they are. Cases cleared and convictions obtained are their primary metrics.

"strip the gun", that gives you some idea of how many idiots can buy a computer without a basic I.Q. test !

Get an attorney, have him/her call BATF and get this resolved.
+1 on all points, WELL SAID throughout.
goodiewrench = latest incarnation of Oldmanbitchlady1942
Originally Posted by MMcDonald
If you want to PM me the make, model, and serial # of the gun along with the state it was bought from. I'll check on it to see if it's stolen or not. I think the whole thing sounds like a scam. If it were reported stolen and it was transferred through your FFL then you would have already been contacted by the police and most likely by the local police face to face. You should be in no trouble and don't strip the gun and get yourself into trouble.. I don't think you need an attorney asyou can show where it came from, some states (NY included) have laws similar to Criminal possession of stolen property. That would be if you knowingly possessed stolen property. At this point in time I would suspect you do not know it is stolen, just told that by someone that is not verified.
Seems to me like a good way to make 500 bucks to sell the gun and have a friend pose as a LEO and ask you to ship it to them...face to face only on that deal with LEO.
Me- Police Investigator, 18 years. I handle most firearm related crimes in my department.. I'm not going to call your local PD to jack you up if it does turn out to be stolen but hopefully I would be able to help you through the process so you wouldn't need to spend any money on an attorney- easy to do. If you want to PM me your # and a good time to call I would talk to you about it. Not every cop is an a-hole but you can run into them for sure, same as you can run into a-holes in any profession.
I'm suspicious about this whole deal and not convinced it's actually stolen..



Bravo MMcDonald for being a stand up guy and offering to help a fellow campfire member.

Well done sir.
He pm'd the serial number to me and it is indeed stolen and listed in NCIC
He is also in contact with the proper agency
Good on ya! Thanks from all of us. Love this place.
Bravo to you pacecars.

Good job.

This is what makes the fire a great place.
I hazzard to guess that if all cops and all attorneys quit campfire the numbers would drop by 1/4...we are here to help not hurt...quit banging on the very people that do a job you won't. The major majority are excellent at there profession and try to make bad situations better..yes there are bad ones just like in in your professions. I would help any of you if I had the means to do so (and it wasn't illegal). The military and the cops are the only two proffessions I know of that go in the direction of gun fire and not away from.
+1 to copiam's comments.
My two cents. Yes it sounds fishy. But how did you pay for the gun? If you used a credit card or pay pal especially, you can use them to get your money back.
Originally Posted by misplacedinnebraska
If you used a credit card or pay pal especially, you can use them to get your money back.
Uh, probably not with Paypal since they have a prohibition on firearms transactions.
I did receive verification from a detective in SC. I also received verification from a 3rd party on this site that the gun was indeed stolen. I will be shipping it back to the sheriff's dept. in SC this week. The pawn shop agreed to reimburse the seller and he will reimburse me this week. This is an excellent discussion and I am learning a great deal from all of this. Thanks again for everyone's help and advice.
Ok, so I admit that I did not read all 9 pages of this, sorry if I repeat myself - curiously...I have been thru this..and live in SC!

When this happened to me three years ago, I too bought from a local pawnshop here in upstate SC, and it has a giant banner over the two pawn windows that reads "DO NOT PAWN STOLEN ITEMS, YOU WILL BE CAUGHT". Yeah, that should have been my first/last indicator, right? Well, anyway, I got caught up in it, and was able to show no malfeasance on my part, so the cops were cool with it....but I lost the Browning A5. I very successfully sued the family of the person that sold it to the pawnshop in small claims court (the guy was by this point doing time in Prison for this and other stuff)....and 2.5 years later, have yet to recoup a dime of it. One of my childhood friends is by chance a wee-known SC attorney,a and per him, in the state of SC, you can ask for restitution thru the courts (my lawyer-friend took care of this for me). If approved (and it should happen) then once he is out of prison he will have to begin paying the courts system restitution, of which I would eventually receive a portion, probably a bit at a time, until paid (he gets out in 2012). So basically, I expect my $625 expense to be fully repaid by about 2017. That is about $6.50 per month/$78 per year,
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