My son will be going into high school Fall of this year and is really interested in trying and joining the Trap shooting team. I’ve never been a wing shooter so I’ve also never shot much skeet or trap or etc. Looking for any suggestions on a shotgun to maybe pickup for him to give him a decent chance going into this. I know these sorta guns can get fancy & elaborate. I’m going to use some common sense here and say with him just starting out and not knowing if he’ll stick with it ... I really don’t find it necessary to spend an arm & leg on this gun for him. What I would like though, is a good shotgun with possibly some adjustability with the stock and the various chokes needed for the barrel. Also, I’m not sure if I need to be looking at pumps, auto loaders, or break actions?? Yes ... I’m pretty clueless! Can any of you folks get me pointed in the right direction?

Beretta semi auto...

Get a shotgun with a trap specific stock and make sure it fits him for length of pull. Field guns with a drop on the comb from 1 1/2” sloping to 2 1/2” tend to bang up the cheek and can be inconsistent depending on how the gun is mounted. Trap stocks generally shoot a pattern that is 60/40 to 80/20 and allow the shooter to pull the trigger before the rising target is covered up by the barrel.
Berettas are great and soft shooting. Auto loaders are generally more comfortable for recoil but having the stock fit correctly is he first factor to consider. A good option is to go to the gun club when hey are practicing and have him try several different guns. Trapshooters are generally very open to someone trying their guns for a few shots or a round of practice.

I’m one of the coaches for our local high school trap and sporting clays teams. My advice is to see if you can speak with the coach at the school your son will be attending. They should be able to make some recommendations and talk with you about fitting the gun to your son knowing he’s going to grow and need adjustments made over time.
It’s a great sport to get your son or daughter into.
Good luck.

Bob

Whatever the gun costs will be immaterial to keeping it fed.if you can find the trap loads. Mb

You might want to talk with the coach before purchasing a shotgun for your son. Years ago when I was coaching 4H shotgun sports, Beretta had a discount program for youth shotgun sports. I saw a lot of kids getting a 391 which was a very good choice. The 391 stock could be set up for a left or right handed shooter and had 4 positions of vertical adjustment .All the available adjustments made the guns easy to fit to the individual. To paraphrase dead Johnny Cochran of OJ fame, if it don’t fit, you can’t hit.

Your best bet, or a BT 99.

Wnincheser super x model 1.

Great gun... in 1981.

The only thing I keep thinking about is possibly the safety factor of an over/under in the fact when he’s carrying it around he can just break it open and everyone then knows he’s got a cleared safe gun. With high school kids I’d imagine they can get excited and safety possibly forgotten at times. I work with my kid a lot on the safety aspect of firearms but it never hurts to try avoiding accidents before they ever happen. Curious if I’m thinking correctly on this?

I would say the majority of kids getting into sporting clays start with Semi auto. I have never seen a problem.

Agreed. Our team consisted of three girls and one boy. That team won state in shotgun sports.

You would be surprised with the number of individuals who automatically notice if the bolt on a SA is closed or open, when someone isn’t on the pad or in the cage..

One doesn’t error long before it is brought to their attention.

I would recommend a Beretta semi auto. I like the 390 or 391. They are pretty easy to adjust to fit to almost anyone and there is a big variety of parts and aftermarket accessories to help set it up as he wants. It will get him started until he knows exactly what he wants and hold its value if you ever decide to sell it and get something else. An over/under is nice but I think you really need to know what you want and what fits you before you get one. If it doesn't fit right, an o/u is a lot harder to change and he will feel the recoil a lot more.

Does anyone have an opinion on him shooting a 12ga or 20ga? He seems to shoot either fine. Just curious if you all had opinions on this?

If you buy a 20 you will end up replacing it for the kid with a 12. The 20 ga target loads availible hold 7/8 oz of #9 a fine load on 16 yard targets even in a 12 but will be inadequate on handicap and 2nd shot doubles. Patterns of 7/8 oz of 8's and 7 1/2 shot will not be dense enough or fast enough for good breaks on 35 to 45 yard targets. So buy once cry once and again ammo will be the issue (the scarecity of it) for someone just getting into the game. You asked

His school actually supplies all 12ga ammo to the shooters made possible through donations ... if you choose to shoot a 20ga you have to supply that yourself

Also, what are the differences in the Beretta 390 & 391?

Basically the difference between the two are components in the gas system. The triggers and many other parts are the same. You couldn’t go wrong with either choice.

One advantage of the newer Beretta SA's is the recoil spring is now up front and is part of the front magazine assembly and not hidden in the buttstock...Something that is recommended to be changed when it gets weak. A much easier job with the new models.

On any ot the Beretta SA models the recommended interval is 8,000 to 10,000 rounds..

Being a coach for the National Scholastic clay target program at our local gun club for 8 years the club hosts 90
kids in the spring program from 5th grade through high school seniors. We have kids shooting H& R single barrels to Krieghoffs and everything in between. Mostly the kids are shooting their grandfathers old shotgun which are primarily Rem 1100 and 870's.

Most young shooters start out with 20 gauges yet can't wait to move up to a 12 gauge gun..even when they the are not ready too.

Not knowing the height, strength or size of your son your primary considerations are how much recoil can he handle? Also how much gun weight ( a 12 vs a 20) is he comfortable with? The last priority is proper gun fit in length of pull comb ( top of the stock) height.

i agree with most here a Beretta 390 ( if you can find one) or 400 is an excellent choice. Yet nothing wrong with a Remington 1100 trap as a starter gun. I find most high school shooters can't handle the recoil off say a BT-99 or over/under for a 200 round shoot until they are big kids or juniors in high school.

CZ is offering a great single Trap gun. 4 way adj butt and comb raised rib, ported bbl. lengthened cones and 5 briley tubes for half the proce of a browning

Contacted my local small gun shop today ... he actually has 3 used but in excellent condition semiauto trap guns right now. He has a Beretta 400 Xplor ... a Beretta AL391 Urika ... and a Remington 1100. He sent me pics of all of them. The 391 has all the bells & whistles. Adjustable LOP ... adjustable comb ... elevated rib on barrel ... extended bolt lever. Not sure if he needs all that? The Beretta 400 and the Remington 1100 look more like field grade guns to me other than maybe tad longer barrels with extended chokes. I think I will run my boy over there Friday evening and let him handle all of them to see what he thinks!

Ricky,

Be sure to remove the forend on the Rem 1100 to check the bluing loss on the magazine tube....a good indicator of mileage on a Rem 1100 target gun. Regarding the Beretta 391, some competition shooters have experienced
cracked receivers which Beretta will not replace, Beretta states a cracked receiver will not effect functioning of the shotgun. The Beretta 391 did not last long in the product line for a reason. In my opinion the Beretta 303 and 390 were the best clay auto's ever made.

find out where he'll be shooting and what style it is.

When I was in High School and we had a trap team. I brought my BT-99, turns out we were shooting clays from a hand launcher posted at our feet.

I wound up getting a 26" improved or skeet cyl and did very well.

so find out what the set up is first.

Yes, ask the coach what exactly will he be shooting. A lot of school teams shoot trap, skeet and sporting clays (5-stand). True "trap" shotguns are good for trap but not for skeet or sporting. He could, however, shoot trap with an "all around" gun.

If he is shooting other things besides trap the best thing you could get him would be an A400 XCell with the "Kickoff" recoil reduction system. New they are about $1,800, used maybe $1,400. There is a lot to be said for the 20-gauge but if they are giving aways 12-ga shells then that is how I would go. But, generally in those kinds of deals they are giving away pretty powerful rounds, and their recoil is tough to tolerate in just about anything other than a gas-operated semi-auto.

The Beretta 390/391 was a great gun but did not offer the Kickoff system. I have owned several of all of them and the KO is the way to go, by a long shot. The A400 has the same adjustable-fit stock as the 391 (via an interchangeable shim between the stock and the action). They work fine for either a left- or right-hander.

Perhaps also inquire if the school has shotguns they allow to be used for practice and events.

An additional resource would be the coach, for a recommendation and also to inquire if there are team sponsors. Who may give discounts on purchasing, or even donate shotguns to be used.

390, 391, XPolor, Xcell, BT99, 1100, CZ, adjustable, etc, etc, etc...to a poster who admits they are clueless..
Go talk with the couch, go to a trap club, go find a local trap shooter...go find someone who can give you hands on advice..

FU Couch!

"Damit Couch...Spent primers are the ultimate tutorial. Now get off your cuchie and pass the AA's."

OK, OK..go talk with the "coach"....

Local club that I shot at today and their efforts to get the "yutes" into sporting clays...Been going on for many years....

battue that’s good to see! Getting the youngsters involved is the only way to protect our future in the shooting sports

That's true. Winchester SXP trap gun $379 until you figure he will stick with it. Or a used 1100 trap. Mb

Both my boys shoot on a trap team. Season for us runs January to October. My boys shoot singles, handicap and doubles.

A automatic shotgun is my favorite but it simply won’t hold up if you put the rounds through them. When school is out and my boys are getting ready for a state shoot, sctp nationals or the grand they each will shoot 50 boxes or more Ammo a week. Even break action guns will break pounding them like that.

My advice if he’s only shooting singles I’d buy a BT99 and buy a PFS stock. If he’s shooting all three disciplines i bought the browning 725 combo gun in 34 inch unsingle with 32 inch o/u barrels both with adjustable ribs.

I reload so for practice they shoot a lot 7/8oz loads.

If you don’t want to spend a arm and a leg tell him he can’t join the team....cause it’s the costliest sport there is.

Odd, in that I know a few that have around 200,000 rounds out of various Beretta SA’s with routine maintenance and a few easily replaced parts. Should be enough to get them off to a good start.

Had to put a new locking lug and replace a side rib on a Perazzi after around 100,000.

Know one who went over 200,000 shooting a Beretta 682 series before he did a rebuild.

I know a good SA will serve them well just starting out. In the long run, today’s SA’s are the best dollar value of all the available shotgun options. The work reliably and what does break is an easy fix.

Took my boy to local gun shop yesterday evening and had him look at and handle several guns. We ended up ordering one for him. No idea when it’ll arrive. He will be getting a new Beretta 12ga SA a400 xplor with the kick off option. I’m excited for him to get it and start shooting with it! Should be a great gun for his Trap shooting and hopefully he’ll excel in the sport. Seems like the Beretta was a solid choice!

Now start finding ammo. A lot of ammo!

I heard that. I’m fine with the kid burning through it if I can keep it supplied for him. The kid could be doing a lot worse things! Lol

I think I’m going to order a couple of the Beretta +2” chokes for him also. Anyone have any suggestions on what restrictions I should get for him? I was thinking of maybe ordering a modified and improved modified. The +2” choke tubes seem like the way to go to me for his trap shooting. Any suggestions?

Since you asked....They will not break him a single extra target. The chokes that came with the shotgun will serve him well for now.

He has some learning to do

Pattern and see

Skill comes before patterns.....

Give a top flight trap shooter a new gun and IC choke, and odds are he will run 100 from the 16 shortly.....

Mr. Don't pattern. Mr. Don't check POA vs POI. Again.

It is NOT just for safety though that is a good point.

O/U is also the gun you WANT for shooting clay sports of all kinds. They are not complicated and you can clean it right there at the range in 5 minutes. Cleaning semi autos every hundred or so rounds is a REAL hassle and then you've got the failure to feed if you use it on any of the other shooting sports where you are shooting doubles. They chuck your empties out on the ground unless you spend MORE money on a catcher. O/U you open it up and there they are. Take it out and put it in your bag and get another one to put in.

Go WATCH people shoot on a club trap range for and hour. There is a reason they do what they do and use what they use.

You don't have to spend big sums to get a decent entry level O/U trap gun. Not to say this is the BEST, just that it is one. I looked them over good and I liked the Weatherby Orion with an adjustable stock for instance. About $1000.

Definitely....and again.

However, you originally posted patterns and said nothing re POA vs POI...until now...

Have always thought patterning essentially a waste of time...but POI is something else altogether....

And there is also a reason that the young and older crowds often use a SA...

Only use it as a backup now, but an A400 like the OP just bought had 30,000 some rounds fired with 5 malfunctions total...and was cleaned internally perhaps another 5-6 times. The rest of the time it was only wiped down on the outside.

Addition: There have been Sporting Clay World Championships won with SA's, recently and it will happen again...

Battue experience with automatics is quite different than mine. A lot of high school teams don’t shoot a lot so maybe a auto will be fine. I’ve never seen a auto go anywhere near 200K with out major work. Matter of fact I never seen one go a complete season without a break down of some kind (average kid about 10K rounds).

No doubt something will break with 200,000...But the fix is easy..New trigger, recoil spring, gas valve, bolt may crack, firing pin...Mostly no big deal.

Then again, it depends on the brand...Beretta and Benelli are usually solid...

Krieghoff O/U recommends a maintenance function check at around 30 to 40 K and will be a $300 dollar bill...Had two Perazzi barrel mid ribs come loose from shooting them hot for extended practice sessions...$595. each...

99% of your shooting has been clay. 99% of my shooting has been game or pests. You would be one that would use #6 shot with cylinder choke on canada geese going for the "head" shot. I have always said POA vs POI . GFY. City boy. City boy.

Your experience is showing...And good chance I have knocked more Birds out of the sky then you....by more than a little. Maybe not, but that wasn't the issue...

Started out in Tidal, Pa...look up the population. Then moved to a small Pa mill town and grew up there...What else you have that is wrong and Bullsheet....Keep going, it is revealing on a couple levels....

Addition: Looked up the population and it isn't even listed....The post office did close however...........in 1940.

You can't fix stupid.

My apologizes, I never meant to insinuate you were stupid... Ignorant for sure, but you proved that without any help from me.

The long ago discontinued Winchester Super-X model 1 can go 200K rounds with ease.

Hello Battue, this thread caught my interest and I saw your name and had to write. A bit before the global lock down I found the sport of shooting moving clay targets great fun. As a result I bought 2 gas guns and an over/under ( I'm in my shotgun phase) so I could participate. As an absolute rookie, I made a couple of random observations while shooting trap.

My best score has been with the SA.

Seems with the O/U I get more of the target with better breaks and not just chipping them. Gun fit? 60/40? What would cause this?

The SA doesn't beat me to death, 75 birds with the O/U and I'm about done. Watched women's Olympic skeet, all using O/U's and I'm completely humiliated.

Bought the O/U new, it's one of the B guns and it was stiff as a board opening. Triggered my tennis elbow in my left arm it did.

It was nice to not have to walk around and pick up all my hulls.

Fast forward 2 years and now my daughter at age 12 is showing some interest ( I showed her the Youtube video of Dania Vizzi shooting skeet). Need to find her a shotgun that fits and was thinking a gas SA 20 gauge. Am I going down the right road or would you advise a 28? I need to develope and hold her interest on this one, dad needs a hunting partner.

Battue and I don't always agree on every little thing but he is spot on in this thread. I coach a team of kids and have for many years. Two of the boys I coached for several years are now shooting international trap at the very highest level. I run a bunch of Beretta semi-autos and every one of them has held up incredibly well. Not one has needed any sort of significant repair, and some have over 100K rounds through them.

The key to turning your daughter into a happy hunting partner is two things -- you MUST keep recoil to a minimum and you must get her good coaching. The coaching may be hard to come by but you can solve the recoil concern by getting her a Beretta A400 20-ga. For 12 yr olds I have a 391 and an A400, both 20-ga, that I enlarged the gas ports in the barrel (with a long drill bit), so that the gun will cycle properly even with very light loads, which is all I want them to ever shoot. I buy them Fiocchi 20-ga Trainer loads, which are a "28-ga load" (meaning 3/4 oz) in a 20-ga hull, with a low muzzle velocity. With the old 391s I had to also add a bit of weight to the front of the magazine tube to get them to cycle with small kids, but all the A400s need is the gas ports enlarged. Warning though, doing it wrong can result in needing to buy a new barrel. You might also have to buy another barrel is she ever wants to shoot big waterfowl loads in the gun. No big deal, spare barrels can be had for $300 - 400.

The 20-ga A400 with the Kick-Off (recoil reduction) system is WONDERFUL for bigger kids, and with one they can shoot regular 20-ga loads (which are cheaper and easier to find). However, on a 12 yr old girl the KO is probably not going to work (the kid does not weigh enough and the gun moves them back instead of working the piston in the Kick-Off). Nevertheless, if I were you I would buy her an A400 "Upland" 20-ga with the KO system and a 28" barrel. The beauty of it is that, unlike the older Beretta KO systems, which are on the butt of the stock, preventing you from changing the LOP, the Upland KO is in the middle of the stock. You can therefore shorten the stock if need be. Just save the piece of wood you cut off because you will want to glue it back on in a couple of years. And, sooner or later the KO system WILL work for her, and trust me, the way they reduce recoil (when they work) is very, very nice. There is a price to be paid for that recoil reduction, and that is that the gun with it must be cleaned more often than a regular A400 without one. Not a big deal, and well worth it.

As for "chokes," all she is going to need (whether shooting trap, skeet, sporting or pheasants) for at least the next 12 months is an IC choke. I do not like the extended chokes because unless I LocTitle them in they shoot loose too easily, and a loose choke can result in a destroyed barrel. The 20-ga Upland comes with flush chokes (IC, Mod and Full) which stay in a hundred times better than the extended ones do.

Good luck, and enjoy the journey.

The SuperX model 1 is a city boy shotgun. Have 4 of them..

Recently received the last issue of Clay Target Nation-mostly comes to us here in the cities💪-and there were two articles that had pics of shooters using SX Model 1’s. Discontinued 40 years ago, and still out there shucking shells..

I guarantee you will never regret that choice! He MAY want to upgrade to an O/U in a couple of years, but I still think shooting a S/A for at least a year is the way to go. And, if you ever do want to sell it you will get most of your money back, as Beretta S/A's hold their value extremely well.

Now do two things -- first, take the stock off and flip (or exchange) the shim (between the stock and the action) to where you have raised the comb to its maximum and have just a smidge of cast away from his face (to the right for a right-hander). The gun will come with 2 shims -- one in the gun and one out. Most likely you will need to just flip the installed one over, and perhaps invert it, to get the setting you want.

It is, of course, not possible for me to fit a shotgun to someone I have not even seen, but, what I have recommended will be optimal for about 90% of boys out there.

Second, order and install the Briley Mfg. bolt release for the gun. You do not need the after-market bolt handle they also sell, but he will need the bolt release, as the factory button is a thumb-killer.

Bartman,

Rimfire answered your questions much better than I ever would have.

Rimfire,

About the only thing I’m not in agreement with you on would have to do with stocks cracking....other than that, you seem to have the experience to validate your opinions.

Since dad does not really know much about this stuff, how about letting the coach worry about those things?

Also, your childish insults are tiresome.

That was just a case of your experience being a little different from mine, and it is not a big deal anyway because I would certainly never tell someone to not buy a beautifully figured stock just because I think it would be a little more likely to crack than a plain-wood stock.

Coach...And there is one of your best points..

Nothing will get a new shooter-young or old-breaking more targets consistently than a good coach..Not 2inch extended chokes, not even the newest gun for the game..A good coach starts one out with the fundamentals of how to hit, and without a solid foundation consistency will always be the Dog chasing its tail. A really good coach will make stock adjustments on the fly. A good coach will read your breaks in the sky and tell you how your pattern is for the game you are playing. A good coach will tell you how to use your eyes to the best advantage. Something most never figure out on their own.

I never have a kid shoot the pattern plate, never look down their rib to check their gun-fit, and never give them an eye-dominance test. If they have an issue with any of those things, I will quickly see it, as you say, "on the fly."

I tell them to put in one choke (two in an O/U, of course) and never change them. It is not that those chokes are always ideal, it is just that I don't want the kid thinking the path to higher scores is through gadgetry. I want them thinking the ONLY path to success is thru perfecting what THEY do.

It has worked well so far.

Oh, and check your PM's! I sent you a video to watch.

I couldn’t agree more with this statement. Exactly why I’d like to get him the 2” extended choke now and screw it in when the gun arrives and leave it go after that ... he’ll learn his holds or leads and no since changing things up after that. Just trying to figure out what choke restriction I should throw in it for him. I like the idea of the extended chokes since your tapering the barrel down at a more gradual rate vs doing it in a shorter distance. Maybe I’m right ... maybe I’m wrong ... but it makes sense to me and I’m going with it. Lol