Which, when it comes to shotguns is darned near everyone.

I find myself yearning for an "adequate" 20 ga OU. Our pheasant population is nonexistant, but we still have a few valley quail, and I would like to try my hand at sporting clays. Thinking 26 inch barrrels, obviously with screw in chokes.

I used to hunt pheasant nearly every day during season, and could bring home five or six per box of shells.

My problem is that factory shotguns put my right eye almost an inch above the vent rib, and to the left. I have to consciously shove my face into the stock and aim the gun like a rifle.

I started with a H & R baystate SS 20 ga as a kid in the '60s, then a 870 12 ga mag, then a Wea 12 ga Patrician autoloader, and finally most recently a Mossberg 500 12 ga mag, which I just sold.

My cousin has a Mossberg 500 20 ga which aims well for me, and I can kill the hell out of pigeons with it.

In the past I have handled a Weatherby Athena 20 ga ou, a Beretta silver pigeon, and a Browning Citori in the stores. They each seemed to point well.

So, what do I need to know?

I need to keep it under $ a couple grand.

Do I buy a gun, and try to find someone to alter the stock?

Will I make the gun unsellable with stock alterations?

Does one find an aftermarket stock to butcher, and save the original for resale?

Or will I have any luck actually finding a stock which points true for me?

What do I need to know about actions, triggers, selectors, resets?

Is Browning Citori, or Berretta all I need to know?

Thanks in advance for any help.

Both of the O/Us you mentioned are good guns. You may be better served going to a larger gun shop and trying a few different ones. 26" barrels are good on a hunting gun for carrying but most serious people like 30 or even 32" on a clays gun.

Thanks. SERIOUS, I admittedly am not.

Just something to help keep busy in upcoming retirement.

We have a Cabelas and Sportsmans Warehouse within 50 miles. I don't know how knowledgeable they are about shotguns. I usually hear them pushing Creemoors and PRCs.

Troutnut speaks the truth. You'll want nothing to do with a 26" 20ga for sporting clays. It will swing poorly and kick too much. Think 28-30 inch for your use and STRONGLY consider a 12. The larger gun will mount and swing much more smoothly. Your budget will work fine. I suspect there is a major flaw in your gun mount if you really are that far off with a standard gun, especially if a Mossberg 500 kills well for you. Browning, Beretta and the SKB Weatherby's will likely all meet your needs. I'd think about a good used one as a cost effective option.

I'm not sure if it's still available but Brian Bilinsk's Video/DVD "The Art of Shooting Flying" has some really good info about gun fit and shotgun basics. Verifying eye dominance and establishing a good gun mount will be very important to selecting the right gun. Most should be able to find a factory gun that fits fairly close. I almost always have to add length, usually a longer recoil pad, to hit where I look. As an aside, If a Mossy 500 allowed me to hit much better than other guns, that's what I'd be using. A solid hit is much preferred over the most stylish of misses! Best of luck.

They are not the place to look for knowledge. Borrow your buddy's Mossberg and go out to your local sporting clays range. Shoot a bit and make some new friends. They may have a shooting instructor around who could get you started down the right path for a reasonable fee. Lots of nice folks at the range will be glad to help you. Just be a little cautious as you might get TOO MUCH advice.

Thanks. Points taken.

Eye dominance? Yes, I discoveref as a youth, I was cross dominant. But I can not even pick my nose left handed. Let alone shoot a long gun.

I learned to shoot with left eye closed about 55 years ago. And that is still my best option.

Today, sometimes I play with shooting handguns with two eyes. Dominace switches back and forth mid stream.

The same thing happens when looking through a rifle scope with the right eye. Open the left, and the image through the scope disappears. Close the left to get the sight picture back.

Very good post and 'spot on' sir...

I sport 28 inch barrels for our grouse hunting here in WI/MI and it's not unwieldy.

For clays - I shoot 32's only because I couldn't get 34 at the time.

Is go no shorter than 28 for your listed intent. I happen to be a Browning guy over Beretta. Never had a Beretta fit me decent or close enough - but that's ergos and ergos change person to person.

Both will likely last longer than you or maybe your kids will - shooting game.

Probably best to first to decide on your goal. You want to be a better game shot..then a shorter barreled 20 along with practicing at the stations that closely mimic them would be OK

You want to be more serious with the sporting, then it most likely wouldn’t be a first choice. Although I’ve seen some who can play…Birds and clays….with a longer barreled 20.

Wise first move would be some lessons from one who can quickly see your faults. Usually that doesn’t come free.

"Stock fitters bible" - Rowland Oswald. Get a copy and read it.

Find a trap and skeet club. They will have one or more geezers who can answer all your questions. They will bend over backwards to fix your form and help you find a workable shotgun. Sometimes they have a local Pro who gives lessons - money well spent.

Don't get too hung up on a particular popgun just yet - you need a little more knowledge first.

Momma made the mistake of leaving me unattended this evening while she went into Hobby Lobby shopping for crafter supplies. Sportsman's Whse is just next door.

They had the Weatherby Orion Sporting 20 ga on display. It has 30 inch ported barrels. It points pretty well for me. With the adjustable cheek piece, and my fitment issues I figured it would be my best choice for a starter.


The price is reasonable. I assume, Turkish walnut is finished nicely. The blueing is glossy. I think it is attractive.

Now, to locate some 20 ga dove and quail loads.

I will have to learn shotshell loading, and buy equipment. That is a rabbit hole I have avoided thus far.

Very nice!

I found two rounds of lead game loads in the stash, along with three full boxes of steel. I thought I had donated all the steel to a friend for his teenage daughter to duck hunt with. I guess I missed some.

I shot each barrel once. The gun has auto ejectors and a barrel selector on the safety. At the price, I did not really expect a selector.

Lots of 20 gauge ammo available online. Natchess has free shipping right now. I have a case and 1/2 inbound.

I will echo the above and suggest a longer set of barrels than the 26" mentioned. I have a Browning Cynergy that has 32" in a 20 ga and it is easy to carry all day hunting pheasants in SD.

It is a personal thing but people that as me this question before (which gun should I get?) I tell them, get the one that fits you the best. That being said, if a Browning or Beretta fit you about the same, I would go with Beretta, for one reason.
That reason is that Beretta offers extra barrels and you can get 28 gauge barrels and 410 barrels if at a later date you decide you want tot play with those gauges. Beretta also has upgraded wood sets that can be bought to "upgrade" your gun if you so desire. The barrels and wood really are not an option if you go with Browning. You can always go with a true custom stock but that is a whole different subject.

Just my humble opinion

even though im an avid 12ga guy, my 4 time club champ uses a 26" 20ga to hunt and to wax all the competitors at my range. he won last falls 50yd match using #6 max dram loads and beat every 12ga on the course.
some people can use a 20ga very well. and if its going to be carried all day, it works.
if it goes boom where youre looking, itll do.
just my input.
I report, you decide.

The Indian or the arrow? I think I already know the answer. If short 20's were the thing, then they'd show up at big time shoots. They don't. Must be a reason. Even more so for the novice, I'd think

I’ve never understood how a shorter barrel stops you from swinging a shotgun. If you sustain lead or swing through, you need to keep moving the barrel until it is shot.

I have 2 101 Winchester shotguns in the Pigeon Lightweight with 26 inch barrels and they are a delight to carry and shoot.

I would recommend you get the gun that suits you for the most shooting you will do and still use it in the other discipline whether it be clays or hunting. What most people have forgotten is that Sporting Clays was designed to be a target shooting activity to improve your hunting skills by shooting targets. Now everyone has modified the Sporting Clays to odd targets and long ported barrels that changed the main concept of the game…

Those who started sporting clays knew where it would go...The hunting type shots were just the teaser to get it off the ground. Combined with the fact the manual traps of the day limited what could be thrown. Brister had been to England and saw how game was played, and that was his hope for where the game would go.

As far a swinging a shotgun, when the trigger is pulled the gun is either in the right place or it isn't. Swinging it any further doesn't do anything to increase hits. And those who know how to shoot at the highest level, move the gun very little.

at this time I do not have an over and under with a set of 26 inch barrels. years back I did have and I love the little gun. nowadays both of my over and unders are 30s ,one maybe 32 I'd have to go measure
it. no I'm not necessarily going to say I don't like the longer barrels but I certainly did not feel disadvantaged having the 26s. to me it was great deal faster handling than the big ones... I have to shoot them side by side again sometime and see.. I guess that gives me an excuse to buy some more. 😁

this reminds me wifey is going to some women show tomorrow and if I can get done spreading clover seed soon enough I will be unsupervised....

Short barrels are popular here because they make them heavier-thicker-than needed. Make them longer, with the same thickness and they wouldn't balance all that well. Especially O/U and SxS. The Europeans have proof houses that certify their safety with lighter and longer barrels. A good shooter can make both work, however light and longer will usually balance better.

shorter bbls will be best if you find yourself in brush and you duck and dodge scrubs a lot.

and all here that know me know, my primary gun for skeet is 26" and trap is 28" to this day. thats both 12 and 20.

Again, this Wea came with 30 inch. The choke tubes add nearly two inches to that. Though I have not put a tape on it.

Choke tubes hide under the rib. They do nothing for sighting plane. Your sighting plane will end with the bead. And usually little for balance, being they are out on the very end.

Nothing wrong with a 30 inch Weatherbey, but it isn’t the same as a 32 inch because of chokes.

They just add a little mass at the end of the barrel, and a lot of ugly.

It is a common thread pattern. I will be on the look out for chokes which fit mostly internal.

Same style as Win choke, Mossberg acu choke, and Browning invector.

The old Mossberg had a set with about 1/4 inch knurled exterior to the barrel.

It is really not that big of a deal, however if you want flush chokes, then Briley will most likely have them.

If you are a choke changer, then external are a definite advantage.

just curious, after all this advice, which gun are you leaning towards?

He bought one already.

Pictured above.

I’ve learned a lot the past year or so watching TGS Outdoors on YouTube. They cover clays and driven shooting, and also discuss and review and shoot a LOT of shotguns, old and new. Weight, balance, and length all affect how a gun swings, and your style dictates whether you shoot better with a “fast” gun, or one that needs to be “pushed” or “driven” somewhat. Those guys shoot a bunch, and often have experts like Ed Solomons on with tips. Too late to help to you select a gun, but I’ll bet you can pick up some helpful info.

I ended up with a 26” Browning 725 when the 28” I ordered failed to show. I don’t think I shoot it any better than the 30” A5 it replaced, but I enjoy it a bit more overall. You should do fine with your 30”. A gun with tubes, especially extended ones is generally a little heavier out front than a fixed gun, and should help keep you from stopping your swing. No doubt longer barrels are an advantage on clays, but 30s are about all I’d want to carry afield. My 725 was gently used, and came with some extended DS tubes in addition to the standard ones, which add about an inch. I liked them, so picked up a couple more.

Enjoy your new toy.

Thanks Pappy, I will look for the channel.

Anxious for ammo to show up. We have a manual clay thrower on hand to get started with.

ah...ok.

if you were my guest at my range and you walked in with that nice gun of yours, id say this....

1. choose what ammo youd be mostly using.
2. buy more than one brand. (shotguns are like 22's. they like certain ammo)
3. pattern gun at distance youll most likely be engaging your objective with all ammo.
4.. adjust gun.
5. reshoot.
6. try on moving target from a thrower.

hand flingers and string pull el cheapo tossers are normally positioned next to the shooter, causing the shooter to engage the target too close.
they are best suited to simulate shots, flushing birds close by your stroll.
if youre going to shoot clays on bonafied ranges, test the gun on a bonafied range where yardage will be more exact.

good luck! too bad youre not near s.central mo. id be glad to help you out but todays world uses utube. old shooters looking over shoulders seems to be a thing of the past, but is still the best quality for zeroing in.
shoot well.

Take a little trip to Rock Creek Sporting Clays, go see Nick Berry for some instruction. He’s a nice guy, a fine shot and instructor.

https://www.rockcreekshooting.com/

I don’t know this instructor, but this is probably the best advice by far. We love gear but technique and skill trump all.

Congrats on the new shotgun!

Thank you very much. I had no idea this facility was here. It is about twenty minutes from my home.

I will definitely go see them.

Rock Creek is a bit tougher to get to from this side of the valley than I realized. Momma and I drove past a while back. It was a long drive over a steep mountain on Pearl Road in six inches of snow. Fun drive, but not one I want to do every week.

I did find that Caldwell has a clays course, 20 miles away by freeway. I walked it today, burned up a box of #7 1/2 trap loads, and maybe had a 30% success rate breaking birds.

Not bad for forty years since I actually hunted with a shotgun.

Caldwell has a pro, who also coaches a High School club. I have an appointment with him to help me set up the gun properly, and give me a few pointers in a couple weeks.

If I can get a couple of the grandkids to shoot with me, I will be looking for a twin to this gun in 12 ga. If for nothing else, ease of ammo acquisition. 20 ga is as tough to find today as 28 ga was in my youth.

Status report:

I have about 500 rounds downrange now. And I have worked with the aforementioned pro. He gave lots of great pointers on form and yes, gun mounting.

"Hey, you're handling that thing like a rifle. It is not a rifle, it is a shotgun." He helped me set the adjustable comb which placed my face in a much more favorable position.

I am hoping his instructions help me achieve 50% hit rates vs 30%. I will not ever be a competitive shooter. But it is a great way to get out and have a walk in the sunshine.

I will not be joining any league. But still the other shooters are all great, pleasant, polite, and quick to offer help if asked.

And ammo: I found three cases of #8 Win A-A at Midway. The gun patterns them perfectly at 30 yds with modified and IM choke tubes. Both barrels hit exactly to point of aim.

I think you and your new shotgun will have a lot of fun!