Has anyone actually seen any? I like to hunt with my old Winchester 37 which means 2 3/4". I'm happy with using old Winchester #6 magnums but thought I would try these if they actually exist. People think you need at least 3" to kill something so that's what they make.

Winchester catalogs them loaded with #5 shot at 1300 fps.

https://winchester.com/Products/Ammunition/Shotshell/Long-Beard-XR?compare=%7B%22ids%22%3A%5B%22%23STLB125%22%5D%7D

No, I've never seen them for sale in stores. MidwayUSA carries them, but they aren't in stock. Put yourself on the waitlist for them and buy them the moment you get a notice. I don't think they are all that popular for the reason you stated. But if MidwayUSA gets some people on their waitlist, they'll request some from Winchester.

https://www.midwayusa.com/product/1018439972?pid=227786

A box of high velocity #8's should serve you just as well and be a lot cheaper.
I normally use the 1 1/8 oz load at 1250fps. They work great.

I'm assuming 12ga?

Why change if you're happy with your old duck loads of Winchester #6 magnums? I'm stilling using my old duck loads of Winchester #4's. Not reason to look for something else---I'll start looking after I use the last #4.

I have never shot the 2 3/4" shells but the #6 3" shells patterned every well out of my 870

probably right. Never had a problem killing them

Years ago I used the old red hulled 2 3/4" Double XX Magnum #6's to kill a lot of birds.

For turkey we hunt the Winchester XR shells exclusively in 2 3/4 or 3" because of the results on long-range birds that hold up at the 50 yard line or so.

A couple of years back I took a Jake at a measured 66 yds yards hitting him with at least 4 pellets, breaking his wing and thigh bones 1" down from the joint at the body, with 1 pellet found in the breast and 1 in the neck. The pellet that was found in the breast cavity lodged against keel and bruised the heart!! I was amazed the way that bird dropped when he was hit.

We use the Carlson XR choke tubes or other tight tubes like the Promos "Tightwads" measuring in around .675 - .660 and seriously pattern our guns before season. The only draw backs are on closer shots where the patterns are TOO tight. When the birds are under 25 yards its best to aim for the base of the wattles so you don't shoot over top of their heads.

BTW the 3 1/2" shells are TOO much and a pain to pattern and shoot.

where did you find the 2 3/4"?

I've killed them at 60 yards by accident when my estimate was off. I will not INTENTIONALLY shoot one over 40ish... If I can't
get him closer, he wins... as it should be.

See if Winchester offers a Rooster XR in the shot size you want.

12 and 16 gauge, mostly 12.

"... For turkey we hunt the Winchester XR shells exclusively in 2 3/4 or 3" because of the results on long-range birds that hold up at the 50 yard line or so. ..."

I don't understand? Turkey's don't carry laser range finders nor have the ones I've hunted been schooled on the range of various shot shells.
What is the magic of a bird "holding up at 50 yards"?


"... at least 4 pellets, breaking his wing and thigh bones 1" down from the joint at the body, with 1 pellet found in the breast and 1 in the neck. ..."

"bruised his heart"?
How about the one to the neck?
Think that may have interrupted the CNS?
Do you body shoot birds or do you aim at the head and neck?

....and what is the fascination with attempting to kill birds at extreme ranges?
I've killed two birds that had #5 shot embedded in the back of their legs. Parting shot from a hopeful hunter?

Phil Bourjaily wrote an article about ammo that allowed turkey hunters to "reliably" kill birds at 60 yards!
I wonder how many hunters bought the "magic" ammo and lost birds they shot at out of range?

"where did you find the 2 3/4"?"

We had a steady supply of XR shotshells available at CT up here north of the border.


MS, you like ask to questions. Some denoting disbelief, some mocking, others sarcastic in tone.

I will try to entertain your queries. I was frustrated with this turkey and took an instinctive shot at the red head of a bird as he was trying to sneak across a gas easement from hardwoods to the roosting area in the pines. I spent a morning calling, poorly as usual, and the only response I heard was a shock gooble from a bird down in the hollow by a creek about 100 yrs away when a low flying plane flew overhead. I had stood up to leave in the blind, stretching getting ready to pack it in when I saw the bird and he made me. I shot!! The jake dropped at the report.

A few weeks before I shot the boss tom from the same blind with XR shot at 17 paces. Very tight pattern, maybe even TOO tight at that range. Photo credits to the land owner:





Yes, I too have recovered birds with old shot healed over and embedded in the legs and bodies of birds. Stuff happens.


Don't know where you hail from, but in Ontario the 1 1/8th # 8 skeet loads you recommend are available but deemed illegal by the MNR for the ethical harvesting of turkeys. Just saying...

Cheers!

"... MS, you like ask to questions. Some denoting disbelief, some mocking, others sarcastic in tone.

Yes, I too have recovered birds with old shot healed over and embedded in the legs and bodies of birds. Stuff happens.


Don't know where you hail from, but in Ontario the 1 1/8th # 8 skeet loads you recommend are available but deemed illegal by the MNR for the ethical harvesting of turkeys. Just saying...

Cheers! ...:

Yeah, that was a bit sarcastic. But by that same token, I have been treated sarcastically for my beliefs in turkey ammo.

Let me back up a bit.
As a young man back in the mid 70's, I did quite a bit of duck hunting with a group. Everybody was shooting #4's.
That's when Remington came out with their "Nitro-Mag" ammo with the shot buffer.
I have no idea how many ducks I shot at, heard the shot hit the duck and the duck kept flying. They may have died somewhere in their flight pattern or at roost days later.
I was getting really frustrated.
I talked to my dad one day and told him what was going on. He told me to try some high velocity #9's!
What the heck! I didn't have anything to lose!
The next hunting trip, I made shots I couldn't believe and ended up top hunter of the day.
Of course, the guys laughed at me and my "high velocity #9's", but I kicked their butts and their Rem Nitro Mag #4's with buffer! 😉

Later, a gunsmith laughed and told me. "Pattetn density kills, not shot size!"
Regardless of shot size, the more shot you put "on target" improves the chances of a mortal pellet strike.

When I started turkey hunting twenty years ago, I brought the #8 shot theory with me.
It hasn't failed me yet.

I gave up on that "poke and hope" shooting method you mentioned. If I can't get a bird within "range", 40 yards max just like somebody else mentioned above, the turkey wins!
That's why it's called "hunting", not "killing"! 😉

I don't live in "Trudeauville", so I'm totally oblivious of Canadian rules and regs! 😐
In Oklahoma, you don't have to use nontoxic shot. You can't use a rifle in spring and you can't use shot bigger than #2's or a gun bigger than a 10 gauge.
You can even use a .410 if you wish! 😉👍

All good. Never got done to OK myself but would like to see that state.

The understanding you stated, "Pattern density kills, not shot size" is one I adhere to in upland bird hunting for woodcock and grouse. Too, I'm inclined to use smaller shot for density in turkey loads for the very reason stated. But our regs reads: "Shotgun not larger than 10 gauge or smaller than 20 gauge, using shot size of 4, 5, 6 or 7."

As far as our respective political leaders go and their policies regarding rules, regs and firearms are concerned I'm gonna bite my tongue and keep my head down because I may have more to lose than to gain by voicing my strong opposition.

But to stay focused to the OP - I think 2 3/4 XR shot in # 6s are a game changer, I just wish Winchester would produce some in #7 loads.

Cheers!

How far will a lead #8 pellet break a turkey vertebrae or skull?

Glad you asked that question.

https://www.charlieelk.com/2017/06/16/beyond-the-patterning-board-x-rays-of-shot-turkey-headnecks/

I wrote this article for "charlieelk.com", unfortunately, that site is now defunct.

Friend of my dads has a 2 3/4 inch gun and was having trouble finding "turkey loads" for it. I got him a box of 2 3/4" Fiocchi Golden Pheasant loaded with 5 shot. Kills them deader than hell. Best part is that those are 25 per box

I prefer the thicker pattern of #8's, but if the ammo works, I'd not whine about the size of the shot! 😉👍
I personally think that turkey specific ammo is overrated and over priced. But then...I'm an old tightwad, too! LOL!

MS-Interesting about # 8 shot.
Would work in my old Smith-Foxes and M-12 Heavy Duck guns.
Tom Kelly would agree about patience and what works.

The twin trigger of a double gun allows for instant selection of a possible different loaded shell.......

Cut my teeth on a 16 ga "Elsie".
Back trigger, left/full barrel
Front trigger, right/mod barrel

As a kid, nobody explained the L/F, R/M thing to me, but I wasn't trying to do anything but kill squirrels. Choke didn't mean a whole lot.
My Elsie got the job done, that's all that counted.
Only later in life after experiencing some disappointments pass shooting ducks did my Dad explain the "pattern density kills, not shot size" theory.
With a box of Rem Hi-Velocity #9's, I began clearing the skies of ducks with my little hunting group. They sneered at me shooting #9's, but when the smoke cleared, I won the "rounds per duck" pot every time. They continued to shoot Rem 2.75" Nitro Mag 4's with shot buffer. ????


The theory is pretty simple.
Turkeys don't have high carbon steel bones. It doesn't take but ONE pellet to the brain or to disrupt the CNS (central nervous system) to collect a turkey.
The more pellets I can put on target, the higher the probability of a fatal pellet strike.

"The more pellets I can put on target, the higher the probability of a fatal pellet strike."

Sounds good if the pellets have enough energy to reliably break bone and scramble things. In this article that you wrote with the turkey head X-rays it is actually quite surprising how few pellets there are in those turkey noggins considering that was a load of #8 shot. Using the standard 10" circle at 40 yards as a metric to compare results between various combinations, a good turkey gun, choke and load will score well over 100+ pellet strikes with lead #6. Tungsten patterns even tighter. That means there will be double digit pellet strikes in the skull and neck vertebrae with those #6 pellets. That at 40 yards. Better than your results with #8 shot. Did I miss what choke constriction you used?

The shotgun was a Rem 870 w/after market "X-Full" tube.

"... if the pellets have enough energy to reliably break bone and scramble things. ..."

A turkeys skeleton isn't that tough. It's just bone. Even if it is a turkey, birds bones are more lightly constructed than say, even a squirrel or rabbit. It's a natural thing when God designed them to fly to reduce weight. (...and no, I'm not a biologist! ....but I DO know which bathroom to go to! LOL!)

I honestly wish I had x-rayed more heads and I may in the future.

My entire point is: "dedicated turkey ammo" is overrated and overpriced.
I'm not going to argue that tungsten or bismuth or some other non-toxic shot is any better or worse, just that it makes the ammo more expensive when plain Jane lead ("chilled shot" is very hard to locate) works just fine for a lot less money.

I'll agree with you over priced species specific ammo. Print some camo on the box and add "Turkey" in bold lettering and instantly the price jumps 50%+. When I started turkey hunting as a kid I had my old corn cob forearm Remington 870 with 28" fixed modified barrel and killed quite a few with 12 gauge heavy field loads of 1.25 ounces of #4,5,6 shot. Whatever I had from squirrel or rabbit hunting. Later I got sophisticated and began using Winchester 1.5 ounce short magnum XX loads of buffered and copper plated #5's. Later I went with a 3" Benelli M1 camo turkey gun and 3" turkey loads and special extended chokes and all that jazz. Truth is I could kill 90% of my birds with that old 870 and field loads or especially so with the old red XX short magnum loads.

It's all a combination.

I packed a 10 gauge for years. Pretty sure I killed 2, maybe 3 birds that I don't think I could have shot with a 12. We will never know though.

I have killed my closest birds with the old 10 as well. Probably 6 feet on one and maybe 10 yards on another.

This year I am leaning hard towards an IC/M choked 16 SxS. Load it up with 7 1/2 and figure out max distance.

If that's 25 yards then that's where I will try to get all of my birds which shouldn't be an issue since seeing 20 yards on my place is a chore w foliage on.

Weight has nothing to do with hardness.

Look at an antelope. Super hard bone but I bet lightweight.

I can put that many #5 or 6 in a turkey head at 40 yards. Maybe more with Longbeards.

Super! Stay with it if you're happy with the results.

Actually, I'm shooting #8's because I haven't been able to locate the #9 ammo I've been looking for.

Good luck.

Visited 4 pretty large gun shops on Thursday. Did not see a single box of Longbeards of ANY length, gauge or description.

Sad.

I went to a gun store this last weekend in Richmond, Va and saw premium Federal and Remington turkey ammo in 2 3/4", and Winchester Super X turkey ammo in 2 3/4", but no XR 2 3/4" (saw plenty in 3" and 3 1/2"). It's about as rare as turkey teeth.