Back in 2011 "Hammer" wrote?

Why is there such bad thoughts and reports concerning Winchester 101 shotguns? Bought one back in 1982 or so. Shot trap with it for a couple of years even though it had short barrels. Still have it. Think I have one or two more 101�s that I bought since then. But you can�t find a supporter of Winchester 101 shotguns on any of the shotgun internet forums.

They all report that the 101 is the hardest kicking shotgun for its weight ever made. And other nasty things too. Everyone is a Browning Citori fan. I like Citori's too. But can't somone like a 101 and a Citori ?

Thoughts ?

I cringe every time I read this BAP... It's like any sophomoric complaint... no real data, just feelings. One fella said he was going to buy one until he found out it was made in Japan... Wholy Cow... doesn't this man know that some of the finest products come from Japan... small intricate well made stuff. Tbis is not post WWII where Japan means JUNK!

I have been shooting for 50 years now, and been in private clubs where you learn by keeping your mouth closed and your ears open. The Winchester 101 is one of the finest guns available in it's price range.

I bought my first in 1969 brand new, and sold it when California announced a lead ban for hunting. Thought my skeet days were over and hunting was a thing of the past with this 20ga 3" mag. I deeply regretted this as I retired and bought acreage in NC and built a skeet range on my land. http://ccskeet.com

I bought one of the NEW Winchester 101's made in Belgium and loved it instantly. The FN Factory in Belgium built many fine Browning guns for many years. Workmanship beyond belief.

I launched a project to find a 20ga 3" Mag skeet/skeet like I had before... and finally did. Fit me like a glove and I shot a 23 with it the first time out. Very tight, and no signs of wear at all for this OLD gun. So where is the "they wear out quickly" complaint from? Perhaps someone who doesn't know about oil and cleaning? Can't figure this out.

True enough the Italians have a corner on the shotgun market. I have several Beretta auto's and recently bought a 686 Silver Pigeon. Nice sleek gun, but not without it's own problems. Like closing the action is interfered with by some brands of shells... One of my members at our club sold all of his Beretta's just because of this. The jury is still out on whether or not the Beretta will stay in my collection.

Since the Beretta purchase I have purchased a second 101 20ga skeet/skeet gun. It is also very tight and shows no abnormal wear. A few handling marks in the butt stock, and bluing wear on the receiver from handling while hunting. Likely not fired a lot by comparison to skeet shooting where we shoot 100 shots in 90 minutes.

Anyway... I'm here to tell the World that the Winchester 101 is a great buy and a great value. Every bit as good as any Browning O/U made, and Chas Daily was (by the way) made in Japan. I have a Browning Lightning 28ga and it's also made in Japan. Prefer the Winchester over the Browning. But I shoot both well.

So if you are in the market for a O/U consider this:
[*]if hunting buying a gun lighter than 6.5lbs may be good
[*]if skeet shooting buying a light gun will kill your shoulder

Resist the urge to buy entry level products. They will always be not what you want after a short while, and difficult to get a return on investment.

Buy quality products and USED when possible. It's then possible to use the item and sell it at or for more than you paid for it to begin with. You'll never get hurt if you shop around and get a nice old gun suitable for your purposes.

Comments ??????

The old 101 was a great shotgun. I always thought the 12Ga's did kick more than some others. Most seemed to have a thin comb and I think that was the problem.

Problem today is the obvious one they no longer make them. Hard for a shotgun to have any current popularity when it has not been made since 1990.

The new 101 may look similar, but the lock-up is different. In fact it is much the same as the Beretta.

Have an old 28 gauge Pigeon Grade in my collection. Very finely made gun and a top choice when quail hunting.

The small gauge 101's are very nice. I had one of the 20Ga RGS Grouse Specials for a while. Let it get away. Also a 20Ga Classic Doubles 101. Both great shotguns.

Not a big O/U fan but i have a 101 skeet I really like .

How does anyone not like a 101?

I have my Grandfather's old Win 101 20 gauge choked IC/Mod. My brother got his 12 gauge Ted Williams equivalent.

It fits me really well with the expected results on the birds. It's light enough I don't care to shoot a day worth of clays with it but it carries well for a day afield.

He carried this gun all over the world and when I got the triggers were pretty gummed up with dust and oil but cleaned up it's been reliable. The old basket weave recoil pad is petrified and I suppose I need to get around to replacing it sometime.

My thoughts exactly. Winchester made a 20 gauge 101 for a short period of time with 30 inch barrels. Long before it was popular to have longer barrels on bird or clay gun ( except trap).

Doc

I own like most people that only recreate thru hunting and fishing about a dozen shotguns.
The only one I seem to use when the season opens is my Win. 101 20ga. XTR Featherweight. I always carry a backup shotgun when up to camp. I have never needed another shotgun during birdseason.
This one is about 20yrs. old and I am up to about 700 birds, counting grouse, woodcock, pheasant, and occasional rabbit.

This thread got me looking back. I had forgotten there were many variations of the 101. Along with the standard grade, there was a Super Grade, Diamond Grade, Presentation Grade and some others for the European market that we seldom see.

Then there were the drillings in 7x57, .308 and .30-06.

How about this one: The "Winchester Boar"


http://www.gunsinternational.com/gu...gun-inventory-9663-.cfm?gun_id=100825936

Excuse me for a minute. I'm in crisis.

I have one in 12 guage with 28" barrels. Its made in Belgium. I like it just fine.

I understand....

I could really like one of them!

Just posted this one on the Winchester forum. I could quickly grow to like it.


http://www.rockislandauction.com/detail/56/605

Here are some photos of my new OLD Winchester 101 -->
http://24.172.105.90/guns/winchester/old%20model%20101/index.html

Have 20, 28, and 410 all skeet choked. Had a 12 too, but that dang thang kicked like a Missouri mule!

The smaller gauges are fun to shoot and fit me like an old glove.

That's actually a decent price for a stunning gun. I would have been very tempted.

I bought my 20 gauge 101 back in 1966 when (I think) the 20 first came out. I think the 12 came out in 1963.

I've killed scads of game with it. I still have the box and the hang tags. Retail was $283.00 but my friend owned a department store and let me have it for his cost, $218.00.

I has never failed me.

Pugs,

I thought exactly the same.

gotta watch those hidden auction fees and bid wisely.

how many have cracked wood on theirs?

Bob

No cracks here.

Paul

12 ga field grade with 30" bbls, no cracks. I haven't had it long enough to form much of an opinion other than it seems to be a well made gun.

There are no 101 drilling. They are simply combination guns. By definition drillings have three barrels. From the German, dri is three and ling is barrel.

I love my 101s!

And correct you are. I doubt if they made any vierlings either.

I've a 1980s 101 in 12ga with 2-3/4" chambers. Can the chambers be reamed to 3"? Not really planning on having it done. Just want to know if it is an option.

Once saw an incredible Parker Octling 8x22lr... if that could be shorthand for eight 22lr barrels. Built as a goose gun for some sheik, all eight fired at once.

I believe 3-inch is over-rated personally and would not do it, but it should be possible.

Winchester has repeatedly said the 101 is good to go with steel shot. Mine have seen more than a little steel without issue in any of them.

I have owned several 101's in past years. All small gauge 20, 28, 410; field & skeet; even a 3 Bbl. set or two. IMO the Brownings, Berettas & Kguns just seemed to be better guns, at least for me so those are what I shoot today when I reach for an O/U.

New FN built guns sure seem nice...

The older 101 in 20 ga is in my opinion one of the best O&U ever made. I have the Sporting Clay Winchester that is Belgian made and it is called Winchester Select Energy Sporting Clay with Ported barrels

I have been a gunsmith for the last 40 years. Repair close to 1000 guns a year. Havent seen a 101 in a long time for anything broken. Customers love them. They made a 101 for Sears called the Ted Williams 400. It is a 101 for half the price if you can stand to look down and not see Winchester on your gun

Back in the early days of sporting clays one of the top Shooters was a Brit named A.J. "Smoker" Smith. He became world champion using a pair of high grade Winchester 101's. Worked for him.

P.S.

Regrettably as an older man he shot himself evidently suffering from depression

small gauge guns are nice.
12ga....sorry, they kick and crack wood.

I started shooting sporting clays with a 101 Waterfowl 32" in 2002.

I know this is an old thread but yeh,

The olin/kodensha 101 is a great gun even by todays standard.
Own 4 and have owned 5 previous plus a nikko shadow and a 96 xpert basically same gun.
Only item i have ever replaced was 1 pair of kickers and 2 sets of firing pins and that was on guns that had shot in the 100s of thousands.

The whole recoil issue is non existent the gun just doesn't fit some people the same with lots of guns. I can shoot a 101 all day and literally not know i have been shooting.

Anyone who knows double guns well and isn't brand snobs will agree the 101 is a very well made gun on par with any browning, cd or beretta of its time.

Some complaints you may hear can be traced to owners not knowing how to treat them-
Fore end cracks are usually caused by pulling or oushing the fore end when it isn't properly engaged or disengaged from latch.
Slamming the gun closed will loosen it at it wears the locking faces.
People forget they where generally cheaper than brownjngs so tend to find them either mint or well well shot out.


Some of the best shooting, well balanced guns ever made imo and i have shot with just about everything.

I always found the 12 gauge 101s kicked my head off. While the 101 is a good gun, I much prefer the Charles Daly Miroku. I have also found the Miroku to have better triggers, for which part of the reason may be their “V” springs.

I have had 101's in 20 and 12 gauge... just didn't like them. They were utilitarian for my tastes.

Browning Superposed were a better fit and better made... the 101's felt like a boat paddle by comparison to ME... your results may vary...

Then the Win 101 became the “Classic Doubles” which many thought were better made. However, they went away also.

Like a boat Paddle? haha they are reguarded as one of the best handling over unders made and with good reason.
People are different gun to gun as our bodies and what feels right to one isn't the same to the next.

But the 101 is every bit as good as anything browning of the time in mechanics balance and build. Peoples opinions will always vary but that doesn't take away from the fact the gun is a great gun, as an opinion is based off what either feels right or what goes against what they like.
I myself have only owned 1 browning and although a great little gun the 101s feel better in hand to me

Cd's are great guns, triggers probably are a little sharper as a v spring.

I had a 12ga, 3" gun and all of the recoil was directed up and into my cheek. I had to move on from it. Nice looking, easy to hit with but I don't need that kind of recoil problem

When is the last time you asked a guy what kind of mileage his truck gets? If he owns a Citori, chances are he gets 25-30 mpg.

Just out of curiosity what are your dimensions- height weight roughly.
It has always intrigued me as myself being 6'3" 260lbs i can honestly say the 101s are like shooting 22s i get near no felt recoil. Cheek slap is the stock dimensions being totally wrong, do you have quite an open shoulder mount with light face connection on stock?

My truck / Citori combo gets about 15 mpg. I gave my 101 to my dad so not sure what that gets. I really like the older 101s. Nice handling shotguns. I like 30" barrels.

In the 80s knew a guy who worked in the stock making department at Winchester Repeating Arms in New Haven. He had a list of 101s at huge employee discounts. Employees were allowed to purchase 2 shotguns.

I picked up a pigeon grade trap gun choked full and improved modified. Had a straight stock and it just plain hurt to shoot even with one ounce trap loads. I think I paid less than $350 for it. Made a nice profit unloading it. I wish I had bought the 3 barrel skeet setup. IIRC it was around $1000.

I had a Pigeon Grade Skeet .410 but sold it because I really like the pumps and side-by-sides. Recently picked up a Quail Special .410 to match my M23 SxS Quail Special .410.

I bought a used 101 12 ga while in HS mid 70's with 26" IC/M - shot everything: grouse, pheasants including steel for ducks & geese. When I started taking the kids to SD for late season wild pheasants. found a 30" M/F barrel good local gunsmith timed to work on my receiver. Fit me so well with plastic butt plate I never put a recoil pad on. Recoil even with heavy loads has never been a problem. If I miss at targets or birds, never the gun's fault. Do I now carry a Browning Citori straight grip upland 20 on grouse and at hunt clubs? Sure because it weighs 5 lbs and I'm getting old.

My son's old 101 field-grade with 30" fixed-choke barrels at work last fall. He has been using it for 20+ years and still loves it. I use an old 20-ga. 101 Pigeon Grade with 28" fixed-choke barrels. Both stocks have been modified to fit their owners.



101's were pretty light, which made them recoil more, plus they had very short forcing cones. But the real killer was that unless you got a trap model they had a bit too much drop, resulting in that "up and into the cheek" recoil so commonly complained of. As with a lot of the finer things in life, they were great but not perfect. The solution was to fix them, not ditch them, but few people know how or are willing to go to the trouble. You just need to find a good gunfitter and a good stock bender. Mike Orlen in MA is a great bender.

Here is a nice K-gun getting some of the cast-right taken out of it. On the 101 20-ga. I had to bend some of the drop out, a couple of times actually, to get it to perfect. One can always have an adjustable comb added, too.



Any accusation that the old 101's cracked easily is complete BS. All makers' wood stock were susceptible to cracking, but the 101's were LESS likely to crack than most. I saw a Perazzi crack before it made it through 2 boxes of mild target loads. Many Brownings, Kreighoffs, etc.

101's were not Perazzis, but then a spare Perazzi trigger group cost more than most of my 101's. Kodensha-made 101's have always been a great value -- a gun that did not cost much but which you could count on to shoot straight and be extremely reliable. The Pigeon Grades' triggers were not like a P- or K-gun's, but they were very nice. The field grades' were also mechanical, which are generally considered better for hunting than inertial.

I have never wanted to carry an expensive gun in the field (too many ways to damage them) but my 101's allowed me to carry a light, superbly balanced, reliable shotgun wherever I hunted, from the mountains to the prairies. There is nothing else I would have rather had.

A 12-ga. 101 Pigeon with 30" bbls with Briley chokes at work several years ago:

I bought one of the first 20 gauge Model 101 shotguns in 1966 when they first came out. The 12 gauge was first. That little shotgun is a part of me and I have never had any complaints of any kind. It has done it's job and done it well. I will never get rid of it but at 72 years of age I will leave it to my Grandson. They are great high quality shotguns.

Have posted on this thread previously...really liked the small gauge original 101’s...always favored the blued receiver models..with a few exceptions, not so much the silver ones.

Shame they never made more with killer wood...and those that did have decent grain they covered up with that hideous universal Winchester red stain.

It was the Pigeon Grades that had the "silver" (nitride) receivers, which are much more impervious to corrosion than blued steel. With a Pigeon Grade you also got an improved safety, chrome-lined bores/chambers, lighter triggers, nicer checkering and the option of a POW stock and/or vented side-ribs.

"Killer wood" is cute but it cracks much more easily than wood with minimal figure.

Can be, depending on how the grain is laid out thru the grip....I've had "Killer" and right now a couple better than nice...One K Gun with over 30,000 rounds and a P Gun with 50K plus between myself and the first owner. They haven't split yet..

In addition to knowing more than a few with Killer++++ that are still in one piece.


Exceptional shotguns,,,,, however most of the silver receiver examples looked like they had been engraved with a ball point pen.....

OK, not that bad, but nothing special...rolled???? But at that price point you don't get quality engraving or even close...

If it has killer wood and nice engraving I don't want to take it hunting.

But, yes, just because a stock has killer wood does not mean it is going to crack. I said it is much more likely to, which is true.

One of my favorites is a Model 12 16 gauge beater...but don’t worry if I take a nice one out.....stocks and metal can obviously be re-blued, recut and finished. It’s a blessing to be able to have and use nice shotguns for what they were made for.

Bank gave out on me awhile back and I was going over..got rid of the shotgun-a nice one-up on top with a throw. When I got back up it was cracked thru the wrist. Good stock guy fixed it, and today you can’t tell and he said it is stronger than before..

How they are headed-up to the receiver also is important if they will or will not crack. A stock bolt is another area that can cause problems if not kept firm.

The advertising copy I've read for the Winchester 101 claimed the engraving was by hand. I've examined the finely done detailed scroll and game engravings on my 1980s Kodensha made 101 XTR Lightweight and it does look hand engraved but I am no expert. Anyone know for sure?

Killer wood is actually quite a bit less likely to crack unless laid out poorly. Simple physics and long proven. I bought my first over 40 years ago.

Lots of variety in body shapes and sizes... a 101 fits me better than most... Brownings work better for me as spears, regardless of the fact they are very well-made.

My only 101 was a 12 gauge choked Skeet and Skeet and that's what I used it for back in the the mid 80's. I'd like to find a 20 28" Cyl/Mod for my current endeavors.

Sound like you read that somewhere. I am speaking from 20 years of stressing shotgun stocks in order to bend them, and repairing stocks cracked in the field.

I love highly figured wood, too, and most of it never cracks. But if you stress both types, the figured wood is much more likely to crack, right along one of those lines of figure.

Go figure!

Have seen the curls crack thru the wrist and where it was headed up to the receiver....and that would be a layout issue.

Straight grain thru the grip is highly unlikely to crack.

Pick your blank with all the smoke and curl you can afford from behind the wrist and it would be rare to fail.

I shoot/use a first gen 101 top single trap with a 34" barrel (fixed full choke) and a straight comb stock. Have put plenty of rounds through it over the years with no issues other than the occasional miss! Lol! Whether it's 16 yard, yardage/handicap, whatever... it's served me very well.

Cool!!!! Been ages since I’ve seen a 101 single barrel trap. Brings back some good memories.

Hi,
I'm a Winchester 101 guy and have been for many years. The only ones I ever got rid of was an old fixed choke SxS with 26 in barrels that was too whippy for me, and a Diamond grade trap that had a cut off stock. It I still have a 3 barrel skeet set, XTR 20ga, XTR 12 ga, and a Live Bird 12ga. I do have 3. Brownings a Belgium presentation grade1 in 12ga and a Featherlite 2 barrel set in 20 and 28 ga. and a BT 99 Max single barrel. I was obviously a clay bird shooter by my arsenal. Grandfather time has caught up, reflexes and eyesight fading. This thread brought back a lot of shotgun memories.
Have a great day.
Jim

I have used my WInchester 101 chambered in .410 for pheasant hunting here on the southern Minnesota prairie with excellent success on pheasants using 3" no.7½ chilled shot. Would rather shoot copper plated shot, but, very difficult to find in .410. I works nicely at the skeet club as well. I am always amused as a crowd usually forms when I bring it to shoot skeet or trap. Some guys see it in the gun rack and ask if it is an O/U rifle. Winchester copies of John M. Browning's masterpiece Superposed are not seen in the field as often as they were in my youth, but, then, there are not many Model A Fords on the streets anymore either.

They weren't drillings. They were BBFs, and they were an abomination. The combo guns were poorly regulated and were nearly impossible to re-regulate. They looked nice, but they didn't shoot for sour owl schidt. It's one reason they sell for a lot less than properly built European guns, which were factory shot and regulated.

The Japs just lined up everything in the factory to "pretty good" and welded it all together. Proper combo guns can be unsoldered and re-soldered, what takes place several times during building a decent traditional combination gun. Had the Japs used the Valmet barrel joining system they would have built a great BBF.

I love the 101 shotguns and the early "economy" model, the 96. I got my son a 96 20ga 26" I/C & Mod when they first came out, and it's been a great shotgun.

With a little fiddling, some seemed to have potential....at least good enough to work on BG in a woods setting. However, for sure the old school Krauts would have done better....

At 100, the bottom and top barrels both shot around an inch and two inches apart...I could make it work in the woods on Deer...

https://rayg3.wordpress.com/2009/06/30/winchester-double-rifle-7x57/

Addition: You are correct..they were not drilling’s...

I missed this until now... I have tested and measured huge numbers of pieces of wood to failure of many species, including lots of different walnut. A few points become obvious. Species is of course huge, but Specific Gravity is the single biggest indicator of strength after that. Figured wood tends to be significantly more dense. Straight, uniform fiddleback is much stronger and stiffer than pure straight grain.

While you may see figured wood break while bending you very likely are putting far more force into bending it. And that is taking the wood places a very tiny percentage of stocks are ever taken.

Wouldn't mind a touch of cast off on this one, stock is as straight as an arrow. Wouldn't mind an adjustable comb either, but I shoot it good. I'll keep looking, but until I find a replacement stock, I'll just keep shooting it.